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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

-SoulRiser

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Does this really matter?
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Roboka Offline
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Post: #1
Video Does this really matter?

We all know it. More than half the things we learn in school won't even be remembered by the time we get a job. In fact, we only remember, like, 20%. And let's face it. Most of the people that go to school are going to land in a pretty bad job because school didn't teach them right or the economy will force them to go into a well paying job that however is the worst job anyone could ask for. So we're here to stop that kind of thing right? Well, If we are ever going to do a revolution, we need to seriously show adults HOW MUCH TIME WE WASTE. I'm not talking about the long length of time the school day is, or how long the periods are. I'm talking about what we freaking learn. How often do you hear your teacher say "Go home and tell your parents about this."? Doesn't that say something!? That the teachers are straight up admitting that most adults don't even know what you are learning? But the adults are the ones with the jobs, not us. So this just shows that teachers, superiors, and any school authority already knows that we won't remember it. But because there is not anything else important to teach us, they hang on to Einstein level shit because there is nothing else to do. But wait. Let's just say that it is important, or it does somehow affect everyone's job. Ok. You have to teach several subjects, in different classes, within one year. How do you do it? Well, instead of actually teaching us in fun and productive ways based off what we like, you go and force us to do work in a run down prison with no breaks other than lunch and expect us, after all that, do HOMEWORK while also doing some other kind of activity because schools are to lazy to get up off their asses and actually put some kind of exercise into the regular schedule. Wow. The thing is, if it does apply to all us, you can't just force us to learn it. Ugh. But I bet most of us, again, won't even use this information. Oh well.

Sorry aliens. No intelligent life here.

Ugh. School wrecked me. At least I still have my sanit- nope, never mind... um... I still have a relationship with my frien- nope, lost that too. Wait... Something is coming... YES! I STILL HAVE MY IMAGINATION!Giggle
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03-23-2014 10:51 PM
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Heil_Kaiba8921 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Does this really matter?

(03-23-2014 10:51 PM)Roboka Wrote:  We all know it. More than half the things we learn in school won't even be remembered by the time we get a job. In fact, we only remember, like, 20%, and let's face it, most of the people that go to school are going to land in a pretty bad job because school didn't teach them right, or the economy will force them to go into a well paying job that, however is the worst job anyone could ask for.

So we're here to stop that kind of thing right? Well, if we are ever going to do a revolution, we need to seriously show adults how much time we waste. I'm not talking about the long length of time the school day is, or how long the periods are. I'm talking about what we freaking learn. How often do you hear your teacher say, "go home and tell your parents about this?"

Doesn't that say something!? That the teachers are straight up admitting that most adults don't even know what you are learning? But the adults are the ones with the jobs, not us. So this just shows that teachers, superiors, and any school authority already knows that we won't remember it, but because there is nothing else important to teach us, they hang on to Einstein level shit because there is nothing else to do. But wait, let's just say that it is important, or it does somehow affect everyone's job. OK. You have to teach several subjects, in different classes, within one year, how do you do it?

Well, instead of actually teaching us in fun and productive ways based off of what we like, you go and force us to do work in a run down prison with no breaks other than lunch and expect us, after all that, do HOMEWORK. While also doing some other kind of activity because schools are too lazy to get up off of their asses and actually put some kind of exercise into the regular schedule. Wow, the thing is, if it does apply to all of us, you can't just force us to learn it. Ugh, but I bet most of us, again, won't even use this information. Oh well.

OK, I took upon myself the task of fixing the formatting for this so it was at least easier to read. I also did an extremely small amount of editing to the words, only the ones that really needed to be fixed.

Now, I'm going to ask you for sources on your information.

The less you try to control things, the less you need to.

Boredom is the #1 enemy of learning. Therefore, school is the #1 enemy of learning.

"Bodies fucking fuck."~Night.Artist

[Image: 41433.png][Image: 14362714_1336391025.png]

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Hidden stuff:

"free speech under the constitution only guarantees the government won't stop him saying it and does not guarantee his right to say things and have no consequences at all as a result. also i completely doubt that he is motivated solely by "i'm saying it because i can" and is probably motivated by a more shitheady motive like "i think it's funny to annoy people and Rustle Le Jimmies™ and is just hiding behind the first amendment to try to deflect any consequences or make you realize that being allowed to annoy people is a superior moral right. you can still disdain someone for doing things for dumbarse wankery purposes and you have evne more right to ban and insult them for it" ~Trar's friend about Potato.

Thanks for the diploma… can I have my childhood back?

I’d love to have a battle of wits with you… but I hate to fight the unarmed.
03-24-2014 03:53 AM
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James Comey Away
Banished Oldfaf in Exile

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Post: #3
RE: Does this really matter?

Roboka, I mean not to offend you in any way, but it seems your views somewhat lean on the "conspiracy" view on school. Basically, school was created to make all of us mindless beings and obey the government, etc, to conform, but that's more of a really unfortunate byproduct of the 19th century factory model we still have in place.

As for the "revolution", the thing is, if we're going to win minds, we have to be far more moderate. No one will take us seriously if we still have the "rebel-type" layout, or if we have delusions of completely overthrowing the school system. I think this type of revolution must be done with the pen and paper (or, keyboard and computer screen, and perhaps publishing).

This also raises questions on how to change the system. It's not necessarily the teachers' fault because the generic factory model is the only way of teaching many teachers know. They're not familiar with many of the other ways classrooms are run, like say Schwamm.

In general, I say that you should let go of the "conspiracy" view you have on it. It's a trap that's very easy to fall into, and it's rather poisonous. In reality, the US education system is modeled after the Prussian system which the hidden secret was made for people to obey, but educators felt it was efficient and the time and thought it was for the better. No one thought decades down that it would be extremely dysfunctional to keep up with changing trends. Actually, the state of the economy and job demands actually might help favor transformation of the education system we have.

When I say that, I mean that the economy asks for things like coding, game development, etc, all these positions that schools can't teach very well. Imagine if we could prove modern ways of learning could help put people in these jobs. The factory model gained support because it helped prepare people for factory work in the 19th century. I say we could very well gain credibility by gaining support from companies (though that thought scares me at the same time).

RIP GWEDIN
RIP URITIYOGI
RIP NIGHT
RIP VONUNOV
RIP WES/THEWAKE
RIP USERNAME

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Stop jerking off to porn and whining and do something about it

Make School Survival Great Again - MSSGA

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(This post was last modified: 03-24-2014 04:06 AM by James Comey.)
03-24-2014 04:04 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Does this really matter?

Yeah, breaking that up into parts makes it a lot more readable.

Adding references could help reinforce the argument. There are various surveys that show how little the average adult knows about various basic concepts.

(03-23-2014 10:51 PM)Roboka Wrote:  If we are ever going to do a revolution, we need to seriously show adults HOW MUCH TIME WE WASTE. I'm not talking about the long length of time the school day is, or how long the periods are. I'm talking about what we freaking learn. How often do you hear your teacher say "Go home and tell your parents about this."? Doesn't that say something!?

I agree. Adults often talk about "using time well," a.k.a., "being productive," but what does that mean when it comes to school, where so many people perceive themselves as wasting most of their time?

I'm trying to get conversations about all of this going in the Learning Creative Learning 2 forums. This is a course about learning in new ways, and the people there are sympathetic to the need to do education differently.

Check out my thread Creative Learning for those unhappy in “school-as-usual”

You can join the LCL2 forums with a G+ account. I'm hoping more people from here will share their thoughts there, and I'm planning to coordinate a series of Hangouts-on-Air between people from here and there (and other educators on G+.)

@Roboka, an edited version of your post here could make for an interesting discussion there (just break it into sections like Kaiba did, and maybe add some references.)

I can also quote things there, but I think it'd help of those in school posted some things on their own. I think that could then turn into something people from here can show their parents, and even get parents and current teachers involved in this conversation about what school is for, and how to do it differently.

Peter Gray & allies launching the Alliance for Self-directed Education

ASDE Newsletters: #1 Announcement | #2 History of ASDE | #6 Education Liberation


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03-24-2014 04:10 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Does this really matter?

This image also came to mind:

[Image: Good-question-by-a-student.jpg]

Peter Gray & allies launching the Alliance for Self-directed Education

ASDE Newsletters: #1 Announcement | #2 History of ASDE | #6 Education Liberation


School Survival & Catalyst Learning Network featured on AlternativestoSchool's blog
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03-24-2014 04:11 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Does this really matter?

(03-24-2014 04:04 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  Roboka, I mean not to offend you in any way, but it seems your views somewhat lean on the "conspiracy" view on school. Basically, school was created to make all of us mindless beings and obey the government, etc, to conform, but that's more of a really unfortunate byproduct of the 19th century factory model we still have in place.

Yeah, that's an important point to discuss. The potential for change is really here. The harder part is how to to actually change it. But, the starting point is getting people thinking about the disconnects between "factory-model" schools and classrooms, and what people really need for life in a 21st century world.

(03-24-2014 04:04 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  As for the "revolution", the thing is, if we're going to win minds, we have to be far more moderate. No one will take us seriously if we still have the "rebel-type" layout, or if we have delusions of completely overthrowing the school system. I think this type of revolution must be done with the pen and paper (or, keyboard and computer screen, and perhaps publishing).

Definitely... as well as in-person (and video/audio) conversations that make reference to those text-based conversations and facts.

(03-24-2014 04:04 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  This also raises questions on how to change the system. It's not necessarily the teachers' fault because the generic factory model is the only way of teaching many teachers know. They're not familiar with many of the other ways classrooms are run, like say Schwamm.

This is where educating people is key -- and fortunately, we have help with that, from these edu-MOOCs and all kinds of experts and people who are breaking ground. The question is then how to help those "behind-the-times" parents, educators, and others to learn about these other ways of thinking about education.

(03-24-2014 04:04 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  In general, I say that you should let go of the "conspiracy" view you have on it. It's a trap that's very easy to fall into, and it's rather poisonous. In reality, the US education system is modeled after the Prussian system which the hidden secret was made for people to obey, but educators felt it was efficient and the time and thought it was for the better. No one thought decades down that it would be extremely dysfunctional to keep up with changing trends. Actually, the state of the economy and job demands actually might help favor transformation of the education system we have.

Exactly. Technology, and the proliferation of open (and cheap) content means teachers don't have to all play the same roles they did in the past. One of the problems is that institutions and their roles are still modeled after those earlier ways of doing things... even though change is creeping in and many educators are interested in how to do things differently.

I think the main conspiracy is the fear and uncertainty within individual people. And, people responding on that LCL2 thread brought that point up as well. So, what can be done to help people feel safe, motivated, and open to the risk inherent in questioning their assumptions?

(03-24-2014 04:04 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  When I say that, I mean that the economy asks for things like coding, game development, etc, all these positions that schools can't teach very well. Imagine if we could prove modern ways of learning could help put people in these jobs. The factory model gained support because it helped prepare people for factory work in the 19th century. I say we could very well gain credibility by gaining support from companies (though that thought scares me at the same time).

Employers are definitely one place to look for support. They tend not to be satisfied with the output of schools and colleges, though they may not have the best answers on how to do things differently. One more reason for education and dialogue all around.

Peter Gray & allies launching the Alliance for Self-directed Education

ASDE Newsletters: #1 Announcement | #2 History of ASDE | #6 Education Liberation


School Survival & Catalyst Learning Network featured on AlternativestoSchool's blog
“Mom, Dad, can I stop going to school?”

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03-24-2014 04:25 AM
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Dirtbikemike Offline
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Post: #7
Does this really matter?

Sorry if I didn't read previous posts and didn't see it has been said, but I'll say this:

If almost all teenagers come to the conclusion that they hate school, it's boring, they're not learning anything, etc. I think that's the problem right there. It says something about the school system.

Balls of Steel:
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(01-13-2012 10:37 AM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  Mike you deserve an SS medal. Here, be proud:
[Image: BallsofSteel2.png]
Congrats for doing something I never had the balls to do.
If you have kids, save them from the bullshit you are forced to go through.
(01-25-2012 05:36 AM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  Balls of steel re-awarded. 
(02-07-2012 03:22 PM)flann Wrote:  Balls of Tungsten, now.

I found a picture for tungsten balls
http://bit.ly/xqd1zk

(02-14-2012 03:17 PM)Maelstrom Wrote:  Your balls are denser than white dwarf star matter.
(03-13-2012 08:27 PM)M3116 Wrote:  Balls of steel re-re-reawarded Nutter

(05-14-2013 03:01 PM)Prince Darkstar Wrote:  Dirtbikemike is the only guy I know of on here who won an argument with a teacher.
03-24-2014 06:44 AM
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Superkamiguru Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Does this really matter?

(03-24-2014 06:44 AM)Dirtbikemike Wrote:  Sorry if I didn't read previous posts and didn't see it has been said, but I'll say this:

If almost all teenagers come to the conclusion that they hate school, it's boring, they're not learning anything, etc. I think that's the problem right there. It says something about the school system.

This.

Hidden stuff:
"CONSENSUAL incest is not wrong. (Abuse victims: being abused by a relative does not make it wrong for others to have consensual incest, any more than rape by a stranger makes all sex wrong. Sex and assault/molestation are two different things.) An aversion became common in humans that aided in population growth as one disease couldn't wipe out the human race. That's not a problem anymore.

Consensual incest is very common. You know people who have been involved, whether you know it or not.

There is no rational reason for keeping laws or taboos against consensual
incest that is consistently applied to other relationships. Personal disgust or religion is only a reason why one person would not want to personally engage in what I call consanguinamory, not why someone else shouldn't do it. An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with ANY consenting adults. Youthful experimentation between close relatives close in age is not uncommon, and there are more people than you'd think out there who are in lifelong healthy, happy relationships with a close relative. It isn't for everyone, but we're not all going to want to have each others' love lives, now are we? If someone thinks YOUR love life is disgusting, should you be thrown in prison?

Some people try to justify their prejudice against consanguineous sex and
marriage by being part-time eugenicists and saying that such relationships inevitably lead to “mutant” or “deformed” babies. This argument can be refuted on several fronts. 1. Some consanguineous relationships involve only people of the same gender. 2. Not all mixed-gender relationships birth biological children. 3. Most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant birth defects or other genetic problems; while births to other parents do sometimes have birth defects. 4. We don’t prevent other people from marrying or deny them their reproductive rights based on increased odds of passing along a genetic problem or inherited disease. It is true that in general, children born to consanguineous parents have an increased chance of these problems than those born to nonconsanguineous parents, but the odds are still minimal. Unless someone is willing to deny reproductive rights and medical privacy to others and force everyone to take genetic tests and bar carriers and the congenitally disabled and women over 35 from having children, then equal protection principles prevent this from being a justification to bar this freedom of association and freedom to marry.

Some say "Your sibling should not be your lover." That is not a reason. It begs the question. Many people have many relationships that have more than one aspect. Some women say their sister is their best friend. Why can’t their sister be a wife, too?

Some say “There is a power differential.” This applies least of all to siblings or cousins who are close in age, but even where the power differential exists, it is not a justification for denying this freedom to sex or to marry. There is a power differential in just about any relationship, sometimes an enormous power differential. To question if consent is truly possible in these cases is insulting and demeaning.

Some say “There are so many people outside of your family." There are plenty of people within one’s own race, too, but that is no reason to ban interracial marriage. So, this isn't a good reason either. Let consenting adults love each other the way they want!"-Keith Pullman

01-25-2017 12:49 PM
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Superkamiguru2 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Does this really matter?

(01-25-2017 12:49 PM)Superkamiguru Wrote:  
(03-24-2014 06:44 AM)Dirtbikemike Wrote:  Sorry if I didn't read previous posts and didn't see it has been said, but I'll say this:

If almost all teenagers come to the conclusion that they hate school, it's boring, they're not learning anything, etc. I think that's the problem right there. It says something about the school system.

This.

I agree with me.
01-30-2017 12:28 PM
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