RIP School Survival Forums
August 2001 - June 2017

The School Survival Forums are permanently retired. If you need help with quitting school, unsupportive parents or anything else, there is a list of resources on the Help Page.

To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

-SoulRiser

The forums are mostly read-only and are in a maintenance/testing phase, before being permanently archived. Please use this time to get the contact details of people you'd like to keep in touch with. Send me a message if you'd like to keep in touch with me & Steve.

Please do not make a mirror copy of the forums in their current state - things will still change, and some people have requested to be able to edit or delete some of their personal info.


Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The "Virtue"(?) of Hard Work
Author Message
waterchariot007 Offline
Rebel

Posts: 23
Joined: Feb 2014
Thanks: 3
Given 3 thank(s) in 2 post(s)
Post: #1
The "Virtue"(?) of Hard Work

in school you are taught that diligence is a virtue. Do your best at every schoolwork, etc. OK. We all get that.

Do you think "hard work" is not really a virtue as much as it is being promoted in schools?

We all believe in following your own passion, following your interests, learning things however or whatever you want to...

Question: what does this say about the "virtue of hard work" many people seem to believe in? Do you think this is at odds with it? The concept of hard work is doing things you DON'T want to do in order to get something that you want in the future, correct?

Aren't slaves taught that they should work hard ALWAYS to be treated better in the long run? Doesn't that REALLY reflect the concept/virtue of "Hard work"?

If you're following your passion, learning things whatever or however you want to, that's not EXACTLY espousing the belief of 'hard work', correct? What's your thoughts on this?

*My current thoughts about this may or may not necessarily reflect what I'm talking about here, but I will just like to see your thoughts about this.
02-18-2014 03:30 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
James Comey Away
Banished Oldfaf in Exile

Posts: 6,519
Joined: Aug 2013
Thanks: 1081
Given 2293 thank(s) in 1517 post(s)
Post: #2
The "Virtue"(?) of Hard Work

Working hard in doing the things you love is perfectly fine, trying to reach those goals.

Working hard in something like school though, is somewhat pointless, unless you put grades into consideration.

RIP GWEDIN
RIP URITIYOGI
RIP NIGHT
RIP VONUNOV
RIP WES/THEWAKE
RIP USERNAME

[Image: Nas-One-Love.jpg]

Stop jerking off to porn and whining and do something about it

Make School Survival Great Again - MSSGA

Hidden stuff:

[Image: BallsofSteel2.png]
[Image: mg_michelle_2020.png]
02-18-2014 03:32 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: Trar
Ky Offline
Shadow

Posts: 5,201
Joined: Aug 2012
Thanks: 1798
Given 1468 thank(s) in 972 post(s)
Post: #3
The "Virtue"(?) of Hard Work

My parents keep telling me "hard work" is a virtue.

I'm tempted to say, "Oh, of course you're right. Because it's explicitly referred to as a virtue in the Bible and not just conventional wisdom. Because it's totally an ideal and not in any way an action. And because it is no more a victim of being perverted than any other virtue, even though it's an integral part of indentured servitude, slave labor, and the industriousness of pretty much anything evil."

Public Service Announcement: First world problems are still problems.
02-18-2014 03:37 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Potato Offline
Pariah

Posts: 673
Joined: Nov 2012
Thanks: 91
Given 64 thank(s) in 50 post(s)
Post: #4
The "Virtue"(?) of Hard Work

i decide how i behave without consideration for other people's lists of virtues. i work hard when i have my own reasons for working hard, and i don't give a damn whether hard work is a "virtue" or not. "virtue" is such a useless, meaningless word.

"I never said half the shit people say i did." -Albert Einstein

"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail, there is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers. That is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark."-Stephen Hawking

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2014 05:52 AM by Potato.)
02-18-2014 05:47 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: no , James Comey
brainiac3397 Offline
Machiavellian Amoeba

Posts: 9,823
Joined: Feb 2013
Thanks: 20
Given 1984 thank(s) in 1428 post(s)
Post: #5
The "Virtue"(?) of Hard Work

-Work hard cause I tell you to
or
-Work hard because you want to

A lot of parents and schools go with the former.

Personality DNA Report
(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

Hidden stuff:
[Image: watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme-240x180.png]
Brainiac3397's Mental Health Status Log Wrote:[Image: l0Iy5HKskJO5XD3Wg.gif]
02-18-2014 11:33 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: James Comey , no , waterchariot007
Rule_BreakerXVIII Offline
Revolutionary

Posts: 484
Joined: Sep 2013
Thanks: 734
Given 271 thank(s) in 168 post(s)
Post: #6
The "Virtue"(?) of Hard Work

All i can say is that hard work is touted as a good thing since most people want slaves, and suckers that do ll the work for them. it's a controlling tactic.

Don't play chess with pigeons-they'll just knock over the pieces, shit on the board and strut about like they won anyway.
-the Internet


Quote:May the days and months of flowing bitterness be rewarded...
To forget!?

Unforgivable!!
05-19-2014 05:03 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: Ky
TheCancer Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 1,372
Joined: Dec 2009
Thanks: 20
Given 567 thank(s) in 340 post(s)
Post: #7
RE: The "Virtue"(?) of Hard Work

Running Auschwitz was hard work. Bombing Hiroshima was hard work. Slitting your own wrists is hard work. Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy were hard workers. Being a mafia don is hard work.

Productivity is not neutral. A lazy person who is bad is better than an evil hard worker.

Working hard to educate yourself is not a good thing unless you are a good person. Education does not lend itself to morality.

Apathy is overly villianised. It doesn't matter if you care unless you can do something about it. Find out who you are and do no harm.

But if you're a good person learn how to use numbers and language. You'll benefit yourself and others.

P
U
K
E

There's no answer. Do you trust the people who are assigned to educate you? If you do, and you're a good person, then their conclusions are relevant.

If you want to be a different fish, you've got to jump out of the school.


Captain Beefheart
05-19-2014 06:07 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: Ky
KFC Nyan Cat Away
suck 360 blazeit hooks

Posts: 1,034
Joined: Feb 2013
Thanks: 491
Given 244 thank(s) in 167 post(s)
Post: #8
The "Virtue"(?) of Hard Work

"Hard work is a virtue." That is an unfinished statement. It should say "Hard work at what you are truly wanting to do is a virtue."

City YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/kfcnyancat
City Tumblr: http://kfcnyancat.tumblr.com/


"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" - Donald Rumsfeld
KFCs Nonexistent Mental Health Log Wrote:[Image: what-people-think-wwf-means.jpg]
05-25-2014 02:56 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: James Comey
James Comey Away
Banished Oldfaf in Exile

Posts: 6,519
Joined: Aug 2013
Thanks: 1081
Given 2293 thank(s) in 1517 post(s)
Post: #9
RE: The "Virtue"(?) of Hard Work

(05-25-2014 02:56 PM)KFC Nyan Cat Wrote:  "Hard work is a virtue." That is an unfinished statement. It should say "Hard work at what you are truly wanting to do is a virtue."

This.

RIP GWEDIN
RIP URITIYOGI
RIP NIGHT
RIP VONUNOV
RIP WES/THEWAKE
RIP USERNAME

[Image: Nas-One-Love.jpg]

Stop jerking off to porn and whining and do something about it

Make School Survival Great Again - MSSGA

Hidden stuff:

[Image: BallsofSteel2.png]
[Image: mg_michelle_2020.png]
05-25-2014 02:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: KFC Nyan Cat
Absnt Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 6,075
Joined: Dec 2009
Thanks: 13
Given 184 thank(s) in 127 post(s)
Post: #10
RE: The "Virtue"(?) of Hard Work

I honestly believe if you are employed, and your boss treats you fairly (and not fairly by your standards, fairly compared to others in less fortunate situations in comparable industries / workplaces), you should work hard. I work very hard, and I work in a goddamn grocery store. It's a shit job. Why do I work hard? I'm being employed, all of my management is good to me, I'm paid well enough, and I have a stake in my specific store. If I work hard and we do well, I get more hours and pay, otherwise I get cut hours. Even if that incentive weren't there, I'd still want to take some pride in my work. If I'm stuck doing this for 2 or 3 years, I'm not going to try to shirk my responsibilities. I applied for the job, why would I even want to fuck over other people?

Think about what happens when you do a shitty job for a second. Your coworkers have to either pick up the slack, or your boss gets in trouble for not meeting the budget. You can't just think of yourself and say "only work hard if it benefits yourself" because that's a sociopathic idea. Other people will be effected if you have that mentality and just fuck around and not do your fucking job.



Watch on YouTube

You should also take into consideration where you want to be in life, and what kind of person you want to be seen as. Do you really want to be seen as someone who pushes all their own shit off onto someone else because you just don't feel like doing it? That's just a shitty thing to do, you'd be a shitty person for doing it. Granted if you are treated like shit, underpayed, etc, and management / whoever hasn't responded to your complaints, shirking might be justified, but otherwise I just don't fucking see why it'd be a good thing to do. Working hard also builds work ethic, and work ethic is very necessary in our society.

Without hard work, face it, you're not going to do so well in life. We live in a competitive world, and it's getting moreso every day. In high school I barely passed, and i knew that wasn't going to fly in college. Even in college I started to just do the minimum to pass. I realized then and there I didn't want to be normal. I didn't want to be average, I wanted to move up. With absoutely no intention of moving up at my store (I'm only using this job to pay for college), I've been promoted and entrusted with passwords, keys, etc. I expect similar results in future jobs, if there aren't similar results I will quit and go find another place to work that respects hard work and doesn't run on shitty office politics. And yes, I will be able to just quit and find another job, because I'll have worked hard and put myself through school with good grades and prove myself at various other workplaces who will all be happy to recommend me.

What I'm getting at is, weather you really want to believe it or not, hard work will help you in life, and shirking will only hurt yourself and others. The world is not like high school, high school is a different story. In high school, selected classes can safely be minimized. Personally, I even minimized my work in important classes (although in retrospect I would be a lot further along in college had I taken algebra seriously, I just finished Calc with a B but I should have done it two years ago.) High school is forced upon you in life. When you graduate however, when you become an adult, you should be ready to, despite all odds and despite what your parents and the school has hammered into you (dependence and lack of self), you should be ready to act and think for yourself. No one is forcing you to do anything anymore, all they can do is try to persuade you. It's up to you to decide what you do from then on out, and from then on out you should work hard at what you do, besides, you decided on that.

Sure, some situations aren't ideal. In our society, you have to go through bullshit jobs and get certifications that in SOME CASES you might not really need, but hey, life's not fair at the moment. It's going to take a lot more work in society to get to a point where it is fair. That doesn't mean you should go through life fucking other people over and just acting for yourself, however.

Blog I post to now:
http://blog.darknedgy.net

Edfreedom.org -- An organization for more freedom in education.
http://www.edfreedom.org/join-us/
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2014 03:37 PM by Absnt.)
05-25-2014 03:36 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: thewake
Superkamiguru Offline
Resistance Leader

Posts: 202
Joined: Dec 2016
Thanks: 770
Given 83 thank(s) in 52 post(s)
Post: #11
RE: The "Virtue"(?) of Hard Work

(02-18-2014 11:33 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  -Work hard cause I tell you to
or
-Work hard because you want to

A lot of parents and schools go with the former.

Really,most people go with the former.

Hidden stuff:
"CONSENSUAL incest is not wrong. (Abuse victims: being abused by a relative does not make it wrong for others to have consensual incest, any more than rape by a stranger makes all sex wrong. Sex and assault/molestation are two different things.) An aversion became common in humans that aided in population growth as one disease couldn't wipe out the human race. That's not a problem anymore.

Consensual incest is very common. You know people who have been involved, whether you know it or not.

There is no rational reason for keeping laws or taboos against consensual
incest that is consistently applied to other relationships. Personal disgust or religion is only a reason why one person would not want to personally engage in what I call consanguinamory, not why someone else shouldn't do it. An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with ANY consenting adults. Youthful experimentation between close relatives close in age is not uncommon, and there are more people than you'd think out there who are in lifelong healthy, happy relationships with a close relative. It isn't for everyone, but we're not all going to want to have each others' love lives, now are we? If someone thinks YOUR love life is disgusting, should you be thrown in prison?

Some people try to justify their prejudice against consanguineous sex and
marriage by being part-time eugenicists and saying that such relationships inevitably lead to “mutant” or “deformed” babies. This argument can be refuted on several fronts. 1. Some consanguineous relationships involve only people of the same gender. 2. Not all mixed-gender relationships birth biological children. 3. Most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant birth defects or other genetic problems; while births to other parents do sometimes have birth defects. 4. We don’t prevent other people from marrying or deny them their reproductive rights based on increased odds of passing along a genetic problem or inherited disease. It is true that in general, children born to consanguineous parents have an increased chance of these problems than those born to nonconsanguineous parents, but the odds are still minimal. Unless someone is willing to deny reproductive rights and medical privacy to others and force everyone to take genetic tests and bar carriers and the congenitally disabled and women over 35 from having children, then equal protection principles prevent this from being a justification to bar this freedom of association and freedom to marry.

Some say "Your sibling should not be your lover." That is not a reason. It begs the question. Many people have many relationships that have more than one aspect. Some women say their sister is their best friend. Why can’t their sister be a wife, too?

Some say “There is a power differential.” This applies least of all to siblings or cousins who are close in age, but even where the power differential exists, it is not a justification for denying this freedom to sex or to marry. There is a power differential in just about any relationship, sometimes an enormous power differential. To question if consent is truly possible in these cases is insulting and demeaning.

Some say “There are so many people outside of your family." There are plenty of people within one’s own race, too, but that is no reason to ban interracial marriage. So, this isn't a good reason either. Let consenting adults love each other the way they want!"-Keith Pullman

01-17-2017 05:17 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  the virtue of honesty - at what cost? waterchariot007 6 1,530 03-26-2014 09:13 PM
Last Post: mehr672

Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | School Survival | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication