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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

-SoulRiser

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Alfie Kohn
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Dirtbikemike Offline
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Post: #1
Alfie Kohn

Well, I've read two John Taylor Gatto books and I heard about Kohn in the past. I bought 3 Kohn books on Amazon and finished "What does it mean to be well educated?" I also have "The homework myth" and the 3rd one doesn't have to do with school. Parenting. Got it for my dad.

The difference I see between Gatto and Kohn is absolutely Kohn's use of citations. Kohn is a lot less radical but is probably more appealing to sheeple than Gatto.

I'll edit this as I think of more.

EDIT #1: While Gatto's and Kohn's writing styles differ, so do their topics. Kohn goes for more of a stance that school exists and here's what's wrong with it. Gatto goes for why school exists, what's wrong with why it exists, and why it shouldn't at all.

That's also why I think Kohn would be more appealing to sheeple. He's a bit more light-hearted while picking apart school.

Balls of Steel:
Hidden stuff:
(01-13-2012 10:37 AM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  Mike you deserve an SS medal. Here, be proud:
[Image: BallsofSteel2.png]
Congrats for doing something I never had the balls to do.
If you have kids, save them from the bullshit you are forced to go through.
(01-25-2012 05:36 AM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  Balls of steel re-awarded. 
(02-07-2012 03:22 PM)flann Wrote:  Balls of Tungsten, now.

I found a picture for tungsten balls
http://bit.ly/xqd1zk

(02-14-2012 03:17 PM)Maelstrom Wrote:  Your balls are denser than white dwarf star matter.
(03-13-2012 08:27 PM)M3116 Wrote:  Balls of steel re-re-reawarded Nutter

(05-14-2013 03:01 PM)Prince Darkstar Wrote:  Dirtbikemike is the only guy I know of on here who won an argument with a teacher.
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2014 01:19 AM by Dirtbikemike.)
01-31-2014 04:40 AM
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TheCancer Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Alfie Kohn

Gatto must have done a lot of buying into the crap he says he hates to get those prestigious teacher awards in New York. There's something fishy about that dude.

If you want to be a different fish, you've got to jump out of the school.


Captain Beefheart
02-01-2014 11:04 PM
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Dirtbikemike Offline
Balls denser than a White Dwarf

Posts: 893
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Given 78 thank(s) in 45 post(s)
Post: #3
RE: Alfie Kohn

(02-01-2014 11:04 PM)TheCancer Wrote:  Gatto must have done a lot of buying into the crap he says he hates to get those prestigious teacher awards in New York. There's something fishy about that dude.

I think he doesn't use citations on the basis that "I should know, I teach school and win awards doing it"

Balls of Steel:
Hidden stuff:
(01-13-2012 10:37 AM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  Mike you deserve an SS medal. Here, be proud:
[Image: BallsofSteel2.png]
Congrats for doing something I never had the balls to do.
If you have kids, save them from the bullshit you are forced to go through.
(01-25-2012 05:36 AM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  Balls of steel re-awarded. 
(02-07-2012 03:22 PM)flann Wrote:  Balls of Tungsten, now.

I found a picture for tungsten balls
http://bit.ly/xqd1zk

(02-14-2012 03:17 PM)Maelstrom Wrote:  Your balls are denser than white dwarf star matter.
(03-13-2012 08:27 PM)M3116 Wrote:  Balls of steel re-re-reawarded Nutter

(05-14-2013 03:01 PM)Prince Darkstar Wrote:  Dirtbikemike is the only guy I know of on here who won an argument with a teacher.
02-01-2014 11:51 PM
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cheeselover Offline
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Post: #4
Alfie Kohn

Dirtbikemike – Can you tell what Kohn believes about compulsory schooling?

I've only had the chance to read one of his books, 'Beyond Discipline', and even though he makes it clear that he is against punishments, rewards, other forms of external motivation, etc., he never addresses the question of whether he thinks kids and teenagers should be forced to go to school in the first place.

He doesn't talk about unschooling or homeschooling as far as I can tell, and I get the impression he wouldn't be very supportive. His starting point throughout the book seems to be with the assumption that you're going to have kids in classrooms, and then figure out what to do from there.

I'm really interested in the question of what he would do if a child or a group of children really didn't want to go to school. I agree with pretty much all of his ideas, but it seems like a huge question to leave unanswered (maybe deliberately, like you said, to appeal to the masses of educators).

Anyway, maybe he answered that question elsewhere and I just don't know about it. I really want to read more of his books, but it's really difficult for me at the moment since I developed some kind of musculoskeletal disorder which makes it really painful for me to hold books, turn pages, tap touchscreens, stay on the computer for very long, press buttons, etc. – basically whatever it takes to read a book is becoming increasingly difficult.
02-02-2014 12:06 AM
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Dirtbikemike Offline
Balls denser than a White Dwarf

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Post: #5
RE: Alfie Kohn

(02-02-2014 12:06 AM)cheeselover Wrote:  Dirtbikemike – Can you tell what Kohn believes about compulsory schooling?

I've only had the chance to read one of his books, 'Beyond Discipline', and even though he makes it clear that he is against punishments, rewards, other forms of external motivation, etc., he never addresses the question of whether he thinks kids and teenagers should be forced to go to school in the first place.

He doesn't talk about unschooling or homeschooling as far as I can tell, and I get the impression he wouldn't be very supportive. His starting point throughout the book seems to be with the assumption that you're going to have kids in classrooms, and then figure out what to do from there.

I'm really interested in the question of what he would do if a child or a group of children really didn't want to go to school. I agree with pretty much all of his ideas, but it seems like a huge question to leave unanswered (maybe deliberately, like you said, to appeal to the masses of educators).

Anyway, maybe he answered that question elsewhere and I just don't know about it. I really want to read more of his books, but it's really difficult for me at the moment since I developed some kind of musculoskeletal disorder which makes it really painful for me to hold books, turn pages, tap touchscreens, stay on the computer for very long, press buttons, etc. – basically whatever it takes to read a book is becoming increasingly difficult.

He has a completely different view on school, which is why think he's less radical than Gatto. Kohn sees how broken the schooling system is, points out what we'

Balls of Steel:
Hidden stuff:
(01-13-2012 10:37 AM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  Mike you deserve an SS medal. Here, be proud:
[Image: BallsofSteel2.png]
Congrats for doing something I never had the balls to do.
If you have kids, save them from the bullshit you are forced to go through.
(01-25-2012 05:36 AM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  Balls of steel re-awarded. 
(02-07-2012 03:22 PM)flann Wrote:  Balls of Tungsten, now.

I found a picture for tungsten balls
http://bit.ly/xqd1zk

(02-14-2012 03:17 PM)Maelstrom Wrote:  Your balls are denser than white dwarf star matter.
(03-13-2012 08:27 PM)M3116 Wrote:  Balls of steel re-re-reawarded Nutter

(05-14-2013 03:01 PM)Prince Darkstar Wrote:  Dirtbikemike is the only guy I know of on here who won an argument with a teacher.
02-02-2014 12:35 AM
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cheeselover Offline
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Post: #6
Alfie Kohn

Quote:He has a completely different view on school, which is why think he's less radical than Gatto. Kohn sees how broken the schooling system is, points out what we'

Looks like you got cut off midsentence or something… Either that or there's something wrong with the way my computers displaying things.
02-02-2014 06:30 AM
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Trar Away
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Post: #7
Alfie Kohn

It's cut off for me too.

(I need to finish JTG's Underground History of American Education.)
02-02-2014 10:46 AM
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yass100 Offline
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Post: #8
Alfie Kohn

Alfie Kohn writes and speaks widely on human behavior, education, and parenting. The author of ten books and scores of articles.
02-04-2014 03:55 PM
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Dirtbikemike Offline
Balls denser than a White Dwarf

Posts: 893
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Given 78 thank(s) in 45 post(s)
Post: #9
RE: Alfie Kohn

(02-04-2014 03:55 PM)yass100 Wrote:  Alfie Kohn writes and speaks widely on human behavior, education, and parenting. The author of ten books and scores of articles.

The only thing I'd disagree with is behavior. He is opposed to behaviorism. I'd look for a different way to put that.

Balls of Steel:
Hidden stuff:
(01-13-2012 10:37 AM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  Mike you deserve an SS medal. Here, be proud:
[Image: BallsofSteel2.png]
Congrats for doing something I never had the balls to do.
If you have kids, save them from the bullshit you are forced to go through.
(01-25-2012 05:36 AM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  Balls of steel re-awarded. 
(02-07-2012 03:22 PM)flann Wrote:  Balls of Tungsten, now.

I found a picture for tungsten balls
http://bit.ly/xqd1zk

(02-14-2012 03:17 PM)Maelstrom Wrote:  Your balls are denser than white dwarf star matter.
(03-13-2012 08:27 PM)M3116 Wrote:  Balls of steel re-re-reawarded Nutter

(05-14-2013 03:01 PM)Prince Darkstar Wrote:  Dirtbikemike is the only guy I know of on here who won an argument with a teacher.
02-05-2014 12:26 AM
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Dirtbikemike Offline
Balls denser than a White Dwarf

Posts: 893
Joined: Dec 2011
Thanks: 37
Given 78 thank(s) in 45 post(s)
Post: #10
RE: Alfie Kohn

EDIT #1: While Gatto's and Kohn's writing styles differ, so do their topics. Kohn goes for more of a stance that school exists and here's what's wrong with it. Gatto goes for why school exists, what's wrong with why it exists, and why it shouldn't at all.

That's also why I think Kohn would be more appealing to sheeple. He's a bit more light-hearted while picking apart school.

Balls of Steel:
Hidden stuff:
(01-13-2012 10:37 AM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  Mike you deserve an SS medal. Here, be proud:
[Image: BallsofSteel2.png]
Congrats for doing something I never had the balls to do.
If you have kids, save them from the bullshit you are forced to go through.
(01-25-2012 05:36 AM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  Balls of steel re-awarded. 
(02-07-2012 03:22 PM)flann Wrote:  Balls of Tungsten, now.

I found a picture for tungsten balls
http://bit.ly/xqd1zk

(02-14-2012 03:17 PM)Maelstrom Wrote:  Your balls are denser than white dwarf star matter.
(03-13-2012 08:27 PM)M3116 Wrote:  Balls of steel re-re-reawarded Nutter

(05-14-2013 03:01 PM)Prince Darkstar Wrote:  Dirtbikemike is the only guy I know of on here who won an argument with a teacher.
02-05-2014 01:19 AM
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Trar Away
R.I.P.

Posts: 1,437
Joined: Jun 2008
Thanks: 1384
Given 189 thank(s) in 125 post(s)
Post: #11
Alfie Kohn

It would help if we avoided calling people 'sheeple'.
02-05-2014 05:23 AM
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Dirtbikemike Offline
Balls denser than a White Dwarf

Posts: 893
Joined: Dec 2011
Thanks: 37
Given 78 thank(s) in 45 post(s)
Post: #12
RE: Alfie Kohn

(02-05-2014 05:23 AM)Trar Wrote:  It would help if we avoided calling people 'sheeple'.

I've been too much of a follower of "A Sheep No More" I guess.

Balls of Steel:
Hidden stuff:
(01-13-2012 10:37 AM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  Mike you deserve an SS medal. Here, be proud:
[Image: BallsofSteel2.png]
Congrats for doing something I never had the balls to do.
If you have kids, save them from the bullshit you are forced to go through.
(01-25-2012 05:36 AM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  Balls of steel re-awarded. 
(02-07-2012 03:22 PM)flann Wrote:  Balls of Tungsten, now.

I found a picture for tungsten balls
http://bit.ly/xqd1zk

(02-14-2012 03:17 PM)Maelstrom Wrote:  Your balls are denser than white dwarf star matter.
(03-13-2012 08:27 PM)M3116 Wrote:  Balls of steel re-re-reawarded Nutter

(05-14-2013 03:01 PM)Prince Darkstar Wrote:  Dirtbikemike is the only guy I know of on here who won an argument with a teacher.
02-05-2014 05:50 AM
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