Discrimination against females!

[1312]

All links taken from here: http://www.mgtow.com/

http://www.avoiceformen.com/the-facts-ab...-and-boys/

Quote:# Suicide took the lives of 30,622 people in 2001 (CDC 2004).
# Suicide is the eighth leading cause of death for all U.S. men (Anderson and Smith 2003).
# 24,672 suicide deaths reported among men in 2001.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/suifacts.htm
24,672 / 30,622 = .8056952
In other words, over 80% of all suicide deaths in 2001 were male.

Quote:There is blatant anti-male discrimination in the criminal justice system and the sentencing disparity between men and women exceeds that between whites and any other minority.

http://ncfm.org/2011/04/issues/criminal-sentencing/

Avg sentences for crime by gender:

Female – 18.51 months
Male – 51.52 months

http://www.terry.uga.edu/~mustard/sentencing.pdf

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/n...al-1131837

Quote:HALF of all women would lie to their husbands or partners to keep their relationship going if they became pregnant by another man, a survey said today. The new survey of women's attitudes to truth, relationships, and behaviour, said the overwhelming majority (96%) admit to lying.

Does anyone else see what I see?
I've actually thought about it for over a year now and those websites are a nice read, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp4p4o9rbjs

Quote:MAN UP and pay alimony to an ex-wife you no longer love.
MAN UP and enact violence on behalf of other people.
MAN UP and suffer the abuse and the disrespectful crap you're taking from others.
MAN UP and give that random adult woman your spot in that lifeboat.
MAN UP and continue to shell out for kids that aren't even yours, which you can't even see.

[no]

Explanation of title please?

[1312]

(01-10-2014 07:40 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  Explanation of title please?

Intentionally misleading.

[James Comey]

Discrimination comes in many forms. However I'll answer the question: do I feel discriminated against because of my gender? For the most part, no. I'm not at the computer right now but I and xcriteria had a discussion on a topic which I believe does relate via PM.

[Gwedin]

Care to share, Hans?
Sharing is caring, Hans.
Hans cares to share.
Hans shares to care.

[James Comey]

The people have demanded it!

Hidden stuff:

xcriteria Wrote:

Hansgrohe Wrote:This is something I'd normally post in the public forums, but I thought I'd do this via PM instead, and wondering what you think about this, whether I should do this or not.

Tomorrow, I'm 80-90% certain that in my history class, the teacher will separate the boys and girls (teacher has already told us that the sexes will be separated tomorrow), and I know what will happen. The teacher is going to "quiz" us, and will give a sheet of questions to the boys, with the answers blocked off. The girls will get the same sheet, but with all the answers. The girls will methodically get all the right answers, while the boys will be stumped. This same scenario happened in middle school.

I don't understand... why? What's the point?

I've never heard of something like this.

Hansgrohe Wrote:Here's my plan: when I get asked a question, instead of answering the question, I will instead ask a question to the girls about a historical event that isn't taught well in US schools, and in complicated and detailed language, and asking for specifics. The event I plan to ask about is the Highland Clearances.

I just wanted to ask you to see what you thought about this, whether I should go on with this. If they're going to try to toy with my mind, I might as well do the same with the teacher. Does the teacher take me for an idiot? And why is the teacher going to try to make me look and feel like an idiot?

Based on what you explained, my short answer is, sure, experiment back.

But, I must say I don't understand what they're trying to do. Is there any rationale given?

xcriteria Wrote:

Hansgrohe Wrote:

xcriteria Wrote:I don't understand... why? What's the point?

I've never heard of something like this.

That's what I'm asking. I think it's some sort of thing to "empower" girls, but there's really no empowerment if they're all told everything beforehand. Yes, the same scenario I described actually happened in middle school (8th grade).

If a teacher did the same thing but instead decided to separate all the black students and the white students, and make the white students look dumb, that teacher would definitely be fired, or at least warned. But for boys and girls, it's somehow okay to make males look dumb. That's another topic in its own right, but the point here is just to tell you about it and see how you'd respond.

Yeah, that's rather mind-boggling. Promote equality, by promoting inequality.

That might be useful for helping people to empathize, but just doing it along gender lines seems quite strange. (Though I see why it's not as offensive as skin color or some such thing, there must be better ways to either experiment and research, or "teach people lessons," regardless of the underlying goals.)

Hansgrohe Wrote:Like I said, I don't understand what kind of rational they're using. It may be some sort of "empowerment" to girls, or maybe the teacher (to be fair, I doubt this is in the curriculum) is deciding to mess with the male students' minds. The teacher in 8th grade that did this was a man, and the teacher right now who may do this is a woman.

If this does happen as I fear, I'll post this in the forums tomorrow. I'm actually quite curious to see how the teacher responds.

Yeah, I wonder what this is about. Maybe the teacher is stepping outside of institutional bounds in an effort to change society. Relatable, in a sense, but misguided in so many ways.

Out of curiosity, where are you? As in, what state, or city... big city or small town?

And, what's this teacher's background? Education, schools, beliefs, worldview, etc?

I can explain those things about myself in whatever level of detail you'd like... but note how that's one kind of think you never, or rarely learn about schoolteachers... where did they come from? Why do that create lessons as they do? What kind of change do they want to see in the world?

Those are things that can help make sense of why people do what they do.

But yeah... this is strange. If the goal is to help people learn about sensitivity, or something, great, but how is this lesson really going to play out? What is the intended goal?

And why can't questions like that be a core part of the lessons themselves?

One of the things I most look forward to is a combination of teachers posting blogs about their teaching methods, and their students being on School Survival, or something similar, and for a conversation to ensue, between teachers who want to improve education, and students who can't stand what they're encountering.

That's where "education" and the teacher word for their further education "professional development," will really start to converge.

So, let me know if I can help in any way, how it goes, and if you want to spread the conversation about this "teaching method" to more teachers... for the first time after many years of searching, I have a pretty good network of teachers and parents who are "on our side" in various ways, and who are also looking for better ways to do their jobs.

And, one thing to keep in mind, is that I'm looking for ideas to incorporate into a documentary/reality-style series... something that takes subjects seriously, not just as random entertainment, and gets the audience invested in some of these questions of how really to do education.

So any ideas or scenarios are welcome, and on a personal level, let me know how I can help you do something of value with the time you spend in what so many see as "prison."

xcriteria Wrote:

Hansgrohe Wrote:The whole idea of it makes me uncomfortable. I mean, I understand that the male and female brains are wired differently (there was a BBC article on that yesterday), but confusing a group of people and making them look bad is not a great way to teach equality. I could imagine something like that might create self-esteem issues. There are smart men and smart women, there is nothing either sex can't achieve.

I agree. Also, it's worth keeping in mind that people's brains differ a lot more than being two binary categories. There are general patterns of differences, but that doesn't mean that they are universally applicable (not to mention transexual brains, and all that.)

You can see the same thing when it comes to mental illness categories. There are general differences between people who fit a given diagnosis and those who don't... but there's still a lot of variation when you look at individual brains.

For example, check out this long article: http://edge.org/conversation/neuroscienc...-gazzaniga and in particular this image a ways down:

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/MC11slid...lide21.jpg

"Well, wait a minute, take a step back here. This was obtained by averaging together nine or 90 brains, depending on the particular study. When you actually go in and look at the individual subjects within the sample, a lot of them show the dysfunctional area and a lot of them don’t, and that’s the problem of averaging data. So that's not going to work."

Hansgrohe Wrote:I live in the Bay Area (San Leandro, to be specific), and the area is quite notably liberal. The town I live in is a suburban town that nonetheless is growing. It's extremely ethnically diverse, as well.

I'm not exactly sure about my teacher's background, but she is also likely left-wing. She also told the class that she once went to one of those infamous religious schools where they'd whip you. One of the teachers at that school once told her that "San Francisco has earthquakes and AIDS because gay people live there". Of course, thankfully she doesn't believe in that. She's somewhat hypocritical. She pretty much once told us that most of what we learn in school is likely to be forgotten and likely to also be useless. She also admitted that schools are modeled after factories, but said that schools were better because "at least you have different people talking to you". I laughed in my head when I heard that.

Haha, that's a good line for a series that explores all this. The more people are aware of the critiques of education, the more teachers it seems plainly admit all this stuff (although that's not a new pattern...)

The question is then why not do things differently? Why not begin the conversations about change?

Hansgrohe Wrote:Once again, to be fair, I cannot confirm that the scenario I described will happen, but it's a legitimate suspicion. I agree though that what are the intended goals, and how can they be skewed? A perfect example of this would be the education system. The education system is meant to educate, but these days looks more like trying to teach conformity and obedience. Trying to teach gender equality in this way seems weird and a bit wrong, especially since it will involve putting down a group of people, even if it's only a joke. I'll tell you about how it goes, and even if it isn't what I think, I'll tell you what it was supposed to be anyway.

Systems of mass education, since they were invented, have always had conformity and obedience as a big part of them... alongside serving as "sorting and filtering" mechanisms for people to get graded and find their way to appropriate careers in a very crude way.

This kind of "teaching equality" thing seems like one of many approaches based on reinforcing stereotypes as a way to change society, rather than asking how to empower individuals and help people respect each other as individuals.

Anyway, yeah, let me know how it goes.

By the way, are you on G+? There are some interesting conversations there, including about education, but not enough voices of actual students in the conversations. Meanwhile it's hard to get the educators/parents from there interacting here on the forums. I think of more cross-pollination occurs, things could happen like bringing in printouts of the conversations (or pulling them up on phones or computers) with teachers and parents not dialed into all this "learner-centric," "learn anywhere" and "learn from conversations" talk.

I also have a small group I started on G+ to brainstorm/plan next steps with producing content of various kinds (writing, a series and so on), with a kind of "life as story" theme, if you're interested.

xcriteria Wrote:

Hansgrohe Wrote:Hey xcriteria,
The event that I was describing never happened. What actually happened was that I misheard what the teacher was saying (she meant to say separating AVID from non-AVID students because of a field trip the next day, but she said it in a vague way though). There was nothing about gender separation. To be honest, I was actually hoping for that to happen because it would have turned a boring day of school exciting in a moment.

I will say again though, that scenario I described actually did happen in 8th grade. I walked into the classroom and there were sets of tables, each on one side. All the boys were on one side, all the girls on another. The teacher handed out the sheets to everyone. The sheet for the girls had all the answers. The sheet for the boys had all the answers blocked off. Whenever we got a question wrong (each one but one), the girls would always get it right, because they had the answer. We were all wondering how smart they were until the teacher revealed to us that the girls had all the answers on their sheet. The teacher would go on to say that "some studies have shown that girls get the hold of language faster than boys" and some other stuff that day (this was a history class), even though small things like that don't mean jack shit when it comes to intelligence, it just means that the female brain develops faster (I'm not sure if those statements were even correct, anyway).

Hmm. That sounds like some kind of psychology experiment, more than an instructional technique!

Hansgrohe Wrote:I love this article. We live on a planet of more than 7 billion people, so naturally, there are brains that are wired similarly and completely differently. Should also be noted that there are many areas of the world, where climates are completely different, etc. It is true that women do some things better, and men do some things better, but that's a general pattern doesn't necessarily apply to everyone.

Yes, there are so many things that differ between people when you get to know them. Not to mention considering how people can differ and potentially develop differently due to cognitive techniques, methods of learning, and just experiences of life... even in terms of their brains (neuroplasticity.)

Norman Doidge on the brain and neuroplasticity [8m]

Hansgrohe Wrote:

xcriteria Wrote:The question is then why not do things differently? Why not begin the conversations about change?

I've been asking the same question. Why not do things differently? If there are better ways of doing things, why don't we apply them? There are many, and I mean many factors when it comes to the lack of reform when it comes to education, but the fact that the heart of it has been essentially the same since the 1800s is quite amazing.

Yeah. Justin Schwamm has been blogging about the reasons and his own attempts to do things differently for about two years now. I've been following him and interacting for a little over a year. One of the biggest challenges is that it's complex to earn a living facilitating learning outside of the boxes of traditional schooling, and even mental health professions (where many people go if they don't fit the mold.) Government, parents, college funding, health insurance are all set up to fund those well-known ways.

Over this last summer, Justin searched hard for a path outside of school-as-usual. We brainstormed a lot, talked about business models, and he's had a plan for a while for a network of "schools" that operate in a learner-centric style. But, he couldn't figure out a way to swing it financially, and couldn't stir up much interest with families... and for that and other reasons, he headed "back to the factory" for another year.

(And, he's doing good things there, and helping his students, but it's still happening within a factory model school experience, with grades, report cards, bells, schedules, and "Ms. X and Mr. Y," the composite factory-model teachers he writes about in many of his posts, "yelling and labeling" at their "bad and lazy" students.

https://plus.google.com/102340336817210055995/posts

He welcomes comments and even includes some of them in his subsequent blog entries... there's so much good content in those posts and follow up discussions, and lots of my walls of text. One question, though, is how to adapt that sort of thing, as well as what we're writing on School Survival and so on, into formats that people who don't "get it" can relate to.

Hansgrohe Wrote:Compulsory education's goal has always been to "prepare someone for the real world" and then "let them go" and see where they end up. I don't think this is a stretch to say this, but I do believe that schools have some kind of Social Darwinism in play when it comes to students, a sort of "obey and survive" system. Those that comply with all the rules and do all the homework get all the grades and honors. Those that don't are labeled as "troubled" or whatever. The school doesn't actually care about that person's true intelligence, only if they obey. It's clear a lot of us on here had trouble obeying.

Exactly. And, today's "real world" has key differences from even a few decades ago, due in particular to (1) technology, and (2) a globally-interconnected world and economy.

As more and more tools and examples exist that send the message, "you can be whatever you want," people still have to figure out their own strengths and limits, and actually decide what to go about being... for work, as a lifestyle, and all that. There are many examples of people talking about how they went through the school-college-career-life path, only to realize they hadn't thought much about it and they actually aren't that happy in whatever job they ended up in. Or, the job they had went away, and they didn't prepare for that to happen.

That all basically links back to that 20-something crisis discussion.

But this post from Justin sums up the issue:
http://joyfullatinlearning.wordpress.com...nvergence/

(You may have seen this before since I've posted it on SS... but the fact that even school-compatible people are noticing how school isn't preparing them for life, doesn't teach initiative and independence well, and is "beating the creativity" out of them... it's a real sign that something needs to change:

When I first knew B and O as Latin I students a few years ago, it was clear that they were very intelligent, but it was also clear that they’d learned to play the School Game very well. Like many other school-smart young people I’ve known, they’d found ways to achieve desired results (high grades for themselves, high test scores for Ms. X and Mr. Y) with minimal effort. They liked me, and they enjoyed Latin, but it was a struggle for a while. All of a sudden minimal effort was yielding minimal results, and we were talking about things like creativity and self-management and independence and world-class instead of do this worksheet or here’s the formula or here’s the study guide, which is also the test. ”Mr. S,” they said on Tuesday afternoon, “we have an idea for the school-wide seminar program. Have you seen Sir Ken Robinson’s TED talk about how schools kill creativity?”

Yes, I said, I’ve seen it several times … and I love it. Then O told me how profoundly it had moved her – so profoundly, in fact, that she’s focusing her graduation project on the topic of schools and creativity. ”It seems like schools spent 10 or 11 years beating the creativity out of us,” she said, “and now, all of a sudden, when we’re seniors, we’re being asked to be creative and independent learners.” We talked for a while, and O left with a challenge: to find a 5-8 minute segment of Sir Ken’s talk that encapsulates his message and to develop the questions and the structure that the Student Seminar Assistants will be using when we have this seminar. She and B will also be talking with the Relevant Powers about creativity and independence and about how we might possibly avoid that feeling of beating them out of future groups and generations of students.

But despite all of this, Justin is still paid by his school to teach one subject during one 75-minute period a day, not transform the model... and one of the biggest blocking factors for him changing things from within is his colleagues... on top of the factory model structure itself. And, he has to deal even with the mindsets of students who aren't used to active learning, even though he seems to be doing a pretty good job of reawakening that in the students who sign up for his class.

This image from Degreed founder David Blake really sums the issue up:
http://edventureproject.com/education-is...vid-blake/

Anyway, a number of us are looking for what we can do to change things, of all ages, and the question is just what to do next.

BACKGROUND:
This was originally a discussion xcriteria and I had because I seriously feared what I was posting.... and if you cared to read this, this actually happened to me in middle school, back when I was a mindless drone.

Yeah, it's a lot of text to process.

[Gwedin]

I read about half of it then blanked out.

Did the teacher end up doing it? Need deets.

[James Comey]

No. In there, I said that I misheard it and they really weren't separating any students by gender. Only the ones that were going on a field trip the next day because they were part of AVID (program for schools around here).

[Gwedin]

Ah. Mah bad for not reading everything.

[no]

So "Girls learn better than boys when the girls are shown the material and the boys aren't."

No way! I wouldn't have guessed that!

[Falsalm]

In 6th grade my extreme feminist drama teacher got fired for making all us boys stand up and quoting Valerie Solanas, "You are all a biological accident, A walking abortion, an incomplete female". A few of the boys cried. I sarcastically replied, "we'll I'm sorry I was born with a Y chromosome." And she gave me detention for recess

[Gwedin]

^ Put her and a hardcore Christian in a room together then watch the chaos ensue!

[xcriteria]

(01-10-2014 07:35 PM)Gwedin Wrote:  Care to share, Hans?
Sharing is caring, Hans.
Hans cares to share.
Hans shares to care.

(01-11-2014 11:44 AM)Gwedin Wrote:  I read about half of it then blanked out.

Did the teacher end up doing it? Need deets.

(01-11-2014 12:50 PM)Gwedin Wrote:  Ah. Mah bad for not reading everything.

LOL! That is more amusing than I can find a way to convey.

[James Comey]

(01-12-2014 01:27 PM)Falsalm Wrote:  In 6th grade my extreme feminist drama teacher got fired for making all us boys stand up and quoting Valerie Solanas, "You are all a biological accident, A walking abortion, an incomplete female". A few of the boys cried. I sarcastically replied, "we'll I'm sorry I was born with a Y chromosome." And she gave me detention for recess

Holy fuck, that's not even funny. I mean, that's just insulting, especially when the teacher made students cry. At least she got fired.

I would have started a passive argument against the teacher and telling her how I felt that she was just playing along with a media stereotype, and use big words along the way.

[no]

(01-12-2014 01:27 PM)Falsalm Wrote:  In 6th grade my extreme feminist drama teacher got fired for making all us boys stand up and quoting Valerie Solanas, "You are all a biological accident, A walking abortion, an incomplete female". A few of the boys cried. I sarcastically replied, "we'll I'm sorry I was born with a Y chromosome." And she gave me detention for recess

I hate this kind of people. I really do. And I'm a hypocrite for it, I know, and I don't really care anymore either. This woman should not have just lost her job. She should have been thrown into a pit of starving wolves.

The best non-violent response, though, would have been "Really. Tell me, who was your existence dependent on? Perhaps, I don't know, your father played some role in it?"

Then again he must have been a horrible father if she ended up like this. That, or she murdered him for not being ze master race. That seems a little more likely.

Time to barricade myself in the basement... I... don't... have. Fuck!

Well, it's not like I was using this life much anyway. I already knew my existence was a mistake. I guess it was just that I wasn't smart enough to determine what about it that was mistaken. I suppose this stupidity stemmed in some way from my worthlessness as well. I just hope they kill me soon. This knowledge is too painful to endure.

[Falsalm]

[Missile]

(01-12-2014 01:27 PM)Falsalm Wrote:  In 6th grade my extreme feminist drama teacher got fired for making all us boys stand up and quoting Valerie Solanas, "You are all a biological accident, A walking abortion, an incomplete female". A few of the boys cried. I sarcastically replied, "we'll I'm sorry I was born with a Y chromosome." And she gave me detention for recess

Did I lose my shotgun? That woman needs buckshot to the face

[Marzo]

(01-13-2014 01:03 PM)Falsalm Wrote:  

I'm a feminist and I don't believe any of that.

[Falsalm]

(01-14-2014 11:22 AM)Marzo Wrote:  

(01-13-2014 01:03 PM)Falsalm Wrote:  

I'm a feminist and I don't believe any of that.

Cool

[James Comey]

There's a difference between Feminist and Feminazi. Feminazis have unfortunately de-railed feminism completely.

[Gwedin]

Yeah. I'm all for equal rights for women, but there are those few who take it too far and make all other feminists look like raging bitches.

[Marzo]

(01-14-2014 11:32 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  There's a difference between Feminist and Feminazi. Feminazis have unfortunately de-railed feminism completely.

"Feminazi's" are a very small minority amongst the feminist movement. The reason why they seem to have such a large presence is because they are given the most attention in order to discredit feminism.

Feminism is a very diverse collection of theories, philosophies, and movements.

[brainiac3397]

(01-14-2014 11:22 AM)Marzo Wrote:  

(01-13-2014 01:03 PM)Falsalm Wrote:  

I'm a feminist and I don't believe any of that.

So does this mean I can punch you

What would be opposite sex thing of femanism?

Mamanisim? Manism? malmanism?
So confused.

[James Comey]

Masculism.

[Gwedin]

Which is very common.

[Marzo]

(01-14-2014 03:52 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  

(01-14-2014 11:22 AM)Marzo Wrote:  

(01-13-2014 01:03 PM)Falsalm Wrote:  

I'm a feminist and I don't believe any of that.

So does this mean I can punch you

What would be opposite sex thing of femanism?

Mamanisim? Manism? malmanism?
So confused.

Haha, only if I deserve it. I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't hurt each other unless in self-defense.

[1312]

Derailing your discussion, just because I want to say something.

I don't understand at all why I can't attack a woman if she attacks me, I mean it is looked down upon even here...
I understand that a 'bitch' slap(a really deserved one) is something I can tolerate, but anything other than that, I'd end up defending myself and most likely by punching her.

Like that one case where a woman caught her husband(or boyfriend?) cheating with another girl and straight out beat both to death. Even tho I understand her motive, but still, not a cause to kill.(My brother tends to disagree)

[brainiac3397]

Because people like to think it's "unmanly" to hit a chick, even if she's trying to saw your heart out from beneath your ribcage.

I'm against hitting in the form of abuse, but if they got it coming...they got it coming. I'm quite the fan of TDR's "Speak softly, and carry a big stick". If you push aside my soft speaking, you'll get a big stick in the face.

[1312]

(01-16-2014 08:21 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Because people like to think it's "unmanly" to hit a chick, even if she's trying to saw your heart out from beneath your ribcage.

I'm against hitting in the form of abuse, but if they got it coming...they got it coming. I'm quite the fan of TDR's "Speak softly, and carry a big stick". If you push aside my soft speaking, you'll get a big stick in the face.

That's food for pondering, should I hit back or tolerate..?

Nice sentence. I prefer pistols tho, I heard a knife is bad for self defense(even tho you can't legally use pistol to shoot someone unarmed, can you shoot armed with melee weapon tho?), and I can't carry a stick around, because well, school... Oh shit, don't mention school and pistols in one sentence, oh fuck, I think they are coming for me....

Also, what is TDR?

[brainiac3397]

Who is TDR is the proper way.

Theodore Roosevelt.

Yeah, it's TR, but TDR sounds better in my opinion. It also sounds like FDR. So FDR and TDR. FDR and TR sounds weird.

TdR would be appropriate.