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Smh...
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Post: #91
Smh...

We had a doctors note, and they still refused to accommodate us. But it doesn't matter, because at that point, I'd missed so many days of school, that if I missed one more day, I'd be arrested for truancy.

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12-25-2013 01:05 AM
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(´・ω・`) Offline
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Post: #92
Smh...

Oh, and don't even think about replying to me anymore. I have you on my ignore list, and you'll most likely be there permanently.

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12-25-2013 01:12 AM
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stephen926 Offline
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Post: #93
RE: Smh...

Sounds good asshole
12-25-2013 01:16 AM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #94
Smh...

Don't feed the troll, guys. I haven't seen a working argument from either side so far.

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12-25-2013 01:52 AM
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Asder Miller The Second Offline
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Post: #95
Smh...

Good job DOA

I dont like school, but i think a lot of times both the Anti schoolers and the pro schoolers get out of hand, no ones an idiot, no ones better, its just two different opinions, everyones got one, let stephen say what he wants, respectfully disagree, and move on.

School isnt as bad as you think
12-25-2013 02:38 AM
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GamerGurl Away
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Post: #96
RE: Smh...

(12-24-2013 12:52 PM)stephen926 Wrote:  You people are morons. It's school, not a life sentence to prison. Suck it up. You may not like it, but trust me, your gonna be glad you didn't drop out in the long run. Go to school, stop complaining so much, and enjoy the money and the job you will have (if you try) when your done.
Sorry, but to me school is actually almost like a life sentence to prison. Basically for your whole childhood. If I ever have a kid, he/she will be able to decide for him/herself whether or not he/she wants to go to school. I will be allowing different opportunities for him/her, so that way he/she won't be subject to the unconstitutional compulsory education that public school is.

Not sorry, really. Looking at your recent posts, it seems to me you're not actually here to trade some constructive and meaningful dialogue, but just here to stir some trouble and try and get us to "see the light" and convince us that school is this great way to be "educated"...

Seven crappy hours of our lives.
(This post was last modified: 12-25-2013 03:32 AM by GamerGurl.)
12-25-2013 03:31 AM
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Post: #97
Smh...

A pro-school troll on School Survival?
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12-25-2013 03:33 AM
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GamerGurl Away
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Post: #98
RE: Smh...

(12-25-2013 03:33 AM)kfcnyancat Wrote:  A pro-school troll on School Survival?
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Pretty much, and he's only been able to get 2/10 on the troll meter. He needs to try harder.

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12-25-2013 03:35 AM
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Post: #99
RE: Smh...

Dear drone,

It seems you have gotten lost.
Please reconnect yourself to the hive mind.

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The Management

Formerly planetfall666.

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12-25-2013 04:05 AM
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Hansgrohe Offline
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Post: #100
RE: Smh...

Holy shit, you came back?

I'll applaud you, actually. It takes balls to do that.

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12-25-2013 04:12 AM
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stephen926 Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Smh...

(12-25-2013 01:52 AM)DoA Wrote:  Don't feed the troll, guys. I haven't seen a working argument from either side so far.

I'm not a troll. I'm not trolling anyone. I'm simply saying the truth
12-25-2013 04:57 AM
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stephen926 Offline
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Post: #102
RE: Smh...

And one other thing. Why do people keep bitching about stuff. For example, someone posted on here that it's not fair that their dad took their laptop away because the kid paid for it himself. He took it away because the kid had bad grades. If I was that dad, I would smash the laptop in front of him for saying that's not fair.
(This post was last modified: 12-25-2013 05:04 AM by stephen926.)
12-25-2013 05:02 AM
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HawkbitAlpha Offline
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Post: #103
RE: Smh...

(12-25-2013 05:02 AM)stephen926 Wrote:  And one other thing. Why do people keep bitching about stuff. For example, someone posted on here that it's not fair that their dad took their laptop away because the kid paid for it himself. He took it away because the kid had bad grades. If I was that dad, I would smash the laptop in front of him for saying that's not fair.

Yea, bad grades, aka a letter on a piece of paper.
If that "bad grade" was in advanced math or something, shut the fuck up.

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12-25-2013 05:25 AM
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Hansgrohe Offline
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Post: #104
RE: Smh...

(12-25-2013 05:02 AM)stephen926 Wrote:  And one other thing. Why do people keep bitching about stuff. For example, someone posted on here that it's not fair that their dad took their laptop away because the kid paid for it himself. He took it away because the kid had bad grades. If I was that dad, I would smash the laptop in front of him for saying that's not fair.

The kid payed for it himself. Morally, it's his laptop, not his father's. What if your boss decided to smash your car because you weren't doing the job like your boss wants you to do? But because he's under 18, it's OK to smash something he bought because "you're grades (AKA a really meaningless thing anyway) are low!".

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12-25-2013 05:26 AM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #105
RE: Smh...

(12-25-2013 04:57 AM)stephen926 Wrote:  
(12-25-2013 01:52 AM)DoA Wrote:  Don't feed the troll, guys. I haven't seen a working argument from either side so far.

I'm not a troll. I'm not trolling anyone. I'm simply saying the truth

The truth, as is evident to you. In your defense, everyone else is doing the same. I'm aware that you aren't really trolling, but many here seem to be under the impression that you are, yet are not acting accordingly.

(12-25-2013 05:02 AM)stephen926 Wrote:  And one other thing. Why do people keep bitching about stuff. For example, someone posted on here that it's not fair that their dad took their laptop away because the kid paid for it himself. He took it away because the kid had bad grades. If I was that dad, I would smash the laptop in front of him for saying that's not fair.

I would agree that people are often a bit too quick to "bitch about stuff", but the example you chose is poor.

While minors do not possess legal property rights, it is the wrong lesson to teach when an item belonging to and paid for by a child is confiscated or destroyed by a parent for retributive purposes. By doing this, parents do not instill discipline or inspire progress; the message their child is most likely to hear is "I can do what I want to you and your stuff because I am bigger than you. You don't have real rights and you never will".

That, indeed, was the understanding I came to in the times that my parents confiscated my computer. While now I understand why they did it, and can even come to agree with them in some cases, I still have great disdain for their approach, their failure to listen to me, and their failure to reciprocate the respect I once afforded them. Letting them convince me of my worthlessness, even for a little while, was a much greater mistake than any bad grade I've gotten, and one I will not make again.

Good for you for standing up for discipline, but I think you underestimate the motives of these "kids" you speak of.

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12-25-2013 05:32 AM
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stephen926 Offline
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Post: #106
RE: Smh...

(12-25-2013 05:26 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  
(12-25-2013 05:02 AM)stephen926 Wrote:  And one other thing. Why do people keep bitching about stuff. For example, someone posted on here that it's not fair that their dad took their laptop away because the kid paid for it himself. He took it away because the kid had bad grades. If I was that dad, I would smash the laptop in front of him for saying that's not fair.

The kid payed for it himself. Morally, it's his laptop, not his father's. What if your boss decided to smash your car because you weren't doing the job like your boss wants you to do? But because he's under 18, it's OK to smash something he bought because "you're grades (AKA a really meaningless thing anyway) are low!".

First off, grades do matter. Second, do I live in my bosses house? No. Does he pay for my food and well being? No. You can't compare a dad to a boss.
12-25-2013 05:36 AM
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stephen926 Offline
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Post: #107
RE: Smh...

(12-25-2013 05:25 AM)Hawkbit Wrote:  
(12-25-2013 05:02 AM)stephen926 Wrote:  And one other thing. Why do people keep bitching about stuff. For example, someone posted on here that it's not fair that their dad took their laptop away because the kid paid for it himself. He took it away because the kid had bad grades. If I was that dad, I would smash the laptop in front of him for saying that's not fair.

Yea, bad grades, aka a letter on a piece of paper.
If that "bad grade" was in advanced math or something, shut the fuck up.

Are you trying to say that grades don't matter? I really hope you don't think that.
12-25-2013 05:39 AM
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Hansgrohe Offline
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Post: #108
RE: Smh...

Grades do matter, because society says that grades will count toward your diploma. However, as long as you keep within the magical C, you should be fine. But what ticks me off about grades is that they don't, in any way, determine intelligence. They only show how many mundane assignments you turned in (that won't have any meaning later in your life, too) and how good you were at those awful standardized tests.

Comparing a boss with a parent may not be the world's greatest example, but you're also using a poor example. Morally, the possession was with the child, not the parent, but because the law doesn't protect property for minors, it's a-OK. But this was over a standard that was expected. You may not live with your boss, but nonetheless you have to comply with a certain standard, like a parent. If you don't meet your parents standard, then bye bye goes your possession.

And "breaking the laptop" is such a poor way of showing discipline. It doesn't show discipline. It only shows that the person's possession being taken away has no power and is told to shut up and accept what's being done. That's fucking bullshit, don't you think?

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12-25-2013 05:39 AM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #109
RE: Smh...

(12-25-2013 05:39 AM)stephen926 Wrote:  Are you trying to say that grades don't matter? I really hope you don't think that.
Grades matter about as much as any arbitrary unit of measure can, so in a manner of speaking you are correct.

In this day and age, however, they matter less due to their arbitrary nature; teachers are more likely than ever to fudge test results, alternatives to public education (and therefore grades) are easier and more plentiful than ever, and the information provided in return for a good grade is no longer worth it in this second age of information.

While many users here underestimate their worth, I am of the opinion that you severely overestimate them.

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12-25-2013 05:42 AM
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HawkbitAlpha Offline
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Post: #110
RE: Smh...

(12-25-2013 05:39 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  And "breaking the laptop" is such a poor way of showing discipline. It doesn't show discipline. It only shows that the person's possession being taken away has no power and is told to shut up and accept what's being done. That's fucking bullshit, don't you think?

The only real effect it has? Making the victim even more miserable.

And you know what happens when you make them miserable like that? They begin to hate you and the system even more, and therefore is even less willing to do all the bullshit.

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12-25-2013 05:45 AM
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Hansgrohe Offline
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Post: #111
Smh...

Stephen, you're probably going to jump on me for "but it wasn't the same", but the fact that a parent can do such things to a child (and teachers too) reminds me of a little system called slavery.

Think about it this way: you're forced to go to a place against your own will every day of your own life, and you have no say in the matter. You're told to do all kinds of work. Sure, definitely not the same as picking cotton, but work nonetheless. If they say school is like work, why don't we get paid? And don't give me the "but you get paid in education!" counterargument, because I could easily pay myself in "education" for free these days. And if you decide to rebel, you will be punished. If you don't go, you'll be arrested.

Not the same as slavery, but similar.

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12-25-2013 05:48 AM
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Post: #112
RE: Smh...

(12-24-2013 12:52 PM)stephen926 Wrote:  You people are morons. It's school, not a life sentence to prison. Suck it up. You may not like it, but trust me, your gonna be glad you didn't drop out in the long run. Go to school, stop complaining so much, and enjoy the money and the job you will have (if you try) when your done.
Your only reason here for why we should listen to you is "money and job" we will have when we are done. But schooling doesn't guarantee employment or a job that pays well. Also, many people who educate themselves achieve a satisfying job. Your point seems to be that we would be "failures" if we didn't subject ourselves to forced schooling. You haven't given any evidence to this claim. Remember, you came onto this forum to prove we are wrong about schooling, so the burden of proof rests with you.
12-25-2013 07:48 AM
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Hansgrohe Offline
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Smh...

He also takes the typical "follow the road to wealth" path that schools like to propagate to us. To me, to live life well I don't think that a high-paying job matters, because I've seen plenty of people with high-paying jobs and stuff like that and they're still miserable (I'd like to bring up Michael Townley from GTA V as an example, wonder what kind of TV Trope this is). I think happiness is far more important than income.

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12-25-2013 07:51 AM
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Post: #114
Smh...

Jesus Christ! Where's xcriteria when you need him?!

I don't have an issue with Stephen posting here in the first place. It's a good way to stimulate debate (i'm a poet!). Also nice to see people other than brainiac and Hans in the thread; Page 2 & 3 were a real mess.

Anyway. Stephen. You may be a troll, you may not. I don't particularly care, because you're not really riling me up either way. I'm more amused, really.

While brainiac and Hans may not be 100% correct for focusing as much on your grammar and ad hominem (while their grammar is not perfect and they insult you back in turn), you're still not the paragon of perfection yourself. Your responses in this thread have pretty much been one to three sentences' worth of awful pro-schooling clichés that we've dealt with before from people like you. The other posters have done a good job of addressing them so far, I feel. (Keep it up, lads!)


I can't exactly blame you for feeling sorry for us, for wanting to show us the truth. And while I admit we can get pretty melodramatic at times, this does nothing to change the fact that public education (in the US and around the world) is severely flawed. I will not proclaim that we've found The Truth, but we've at least realized that public school certainly won't help us find it.

I agree with Subculture that you've most likely forgotten how bad it was. Public school quashes individuality and creativity. It forces inane, top-down rules on you in stifling classroom settings, enforced by teachers who more often than not are feeling too stressed out to really give a shit about how you're feeling. Standardized testing, indeed a good portion of curriculum, is a failure because not every student learns the same (because not every student is the same). That, and it's just outdated in today's highly connected world, where technology is becoming ever-more important and there are so many other ways to learn and educate yourself. The culture of competition, the amount of busywork piled on students and the whole clique thing (which is only encouraged by the media) does absolutely nothing to help the mental health of students, either.

Meanwhile, they are not taught how to balance checks, or work out mortgages, or indeed many of the fundamentals of how to successfully find and make a place in society (much less think critically or stand up for themselves). This is especially insidious when big banks are busy screwing their customers and their country, when the government is in gridlock and chooses mass surveillance of its citizens over protecting the common welfare, when students are shown How a Bill Becomes a Law when corporate lobbyists are the ones drafting bills that actively benefit them at the expense of the people; because I'm pretty sure your average high-schooler not only doesn't know what's going on (that will affect them in their future) but can't because they've got homework and college prep and band and what have you. And besides, school tires you out. Who wants to stay current with the issues that affect our very rights when you're so burned out every day? And if we're especially lucky, the apathy he (or she)'s subconsciously learned will stay with him (or her) by the time they're old enough to vote and help shape the country. Which potentially means one less opponent of the corporations trying to buy the government even as we type because they may just not give a fuck anymore. I realize that not every student ends up this way, but they could, and enough of them probably do.

Public school is basically like a factory, manufacturing acquiescent students for the workforce (the corporate workforce, really). This at least may have been beneficial for society at the turn of the century, what with all the manufacturing and white-collar jobs that needed filling, but not in today's digitized world. And that's not to speak of the mental health of the students both then and now.

Yes, everyone does need to know the basic fundamentals; how to read, write, perform basic math, and understand at least the basics of how the world physically works. Ideally, though, students would be able to choose their own way to educate themselves (because there are many more ways these days), and if they choose public education it should be more responsive and adaptive to the student's needs(not to mention actually engaging and interesting), as opposed to the Orwellian bureaucracy that it more or less is now.

Public schooling isn't just bad for us students. Plenty of teachers are getting the short end of the stick as well. I've heard of so many teachers who genuinely wanted to make a difference, to impact the lives of their students for good, who just get crushed by the standardized, top-down curriculum and previously-mentioned edicts. When they try and make changes for the better, they are usually held back and become discouraged, often to the point of becoming worse teachers for it. And that's not to say of how little they're paid, of how little funding education gets in this country in the first place.


But what I find particularly worrying in this thread is CyricDamascus' and some of Stephen's sentiments.

(12-25-2013 02:38 AM)CyricDamascus Wrote:  I dont like school, but i think a lot of times both the Anti schoolers and the pro schoolers get out of hand, no ones an idiot, no ones better, its just two different opinions, everyones got one, let stephen say what he wants, respectfully disagree, and move on.

Yeah, we may have different opinions. Doesn't mean they're always both equally valid. Stephen (probably) doesn't mean us harm, he just doesn't really know what's going on here (pardon my French).

(12-24-2013 03:01 PM)CyricDamascus Wrote:  [...] I hate school, once you hit 15-19 teenagers seem to think there the shit and deserve all these rights, while i think we sort of do,its not gonna happen,and sometimes we act like this is WAYYYYYY worse than it really is, it sucks, its boring, annoying people, but we just gotta get through it

(12-24-2013 12:52 PM)stephen926 Wrote:  [...] Suck it up. [...]

Why shouldn't we demand our rights as human beings (or at least up-and-coming teenagers) when they are violated and taken away? Why should we have to tolerate a broken, harmful system because it's the norm? This is a democracy. It may be imperfect (as all human creations), it may be under attack by those who wish to profit from its demise, it may be hard for us to be heard, but we must speak out anyway. We must not just accept it, we must at least try to change it. Because I know for a fact that we in this thread are not the only ones who want change.

Edmund Burke (pretty sure he said this, but nobody knows for sure) Wrote:All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

Martin Luther King, Jr. Wrote:Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. [...] A right delayed is a right denied.


Stephen. I really hope you can educate yourself. Because the fact is that you are just dreadfully wrong on this particular topic. But we can help you. I, at least, believe that you can do this.


Oh, yes, Merry Christmas to all of you.


(Crossing my fingers that Stephen can provide a good reply here. I really hope he can.)
(This post was last modified: 12-25-2013 08:25 AM by Trar.)
12-25-2013 07:59 AM
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Post: #115
RE: Smh...

(12-25-2013 07:51 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  He also takes the typical "follow the road to wealth" path that schools like to propagate to us. To me, to live life well I don't think that a high-paying job matters, because I've seen plenty of people with high-paying jobs and stuff like that and they're still miserable (I'd like to bring up Michael Townley from GTA V as an example, wonder what kind of TV Trope this is). I think happiness is far more important than income.

I remember seeing someone post a Facebook link on this forum to a woman who claimed that school is good because she thought it let you make a lot of money, and she also thought that your life's worth is determined by the amount of Porsches you own. At least that was what she was implying. I think I have a couple Hot Wheels Porsches somewhere, so I've already got a head start.
(This post was last modified: 12-25-2013 08:01 AM by Trar.)
12-25-2013 08:00 AM
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Post: #116
RE: Smh...

(12-25-2013 07:51 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  He also takes the typical "follow the road to wealth" path that schools like to propagate to us. To me, to live life well I don't think that a high-paying job matters, because I've seen plenty of people with high-paying jobs and stuff like that and they're still miserable (I'd like to bring up Michael Townley from GTA V as an example, wonder what kind of TV Trope this is). I think happiness is far more important than income.

Lonely at the Top kinda fits.

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12-25-2013 08:07 AM
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Post: #117
RE: Smh...

OK stephen. I can now see that you have a serious problem with us and that you are not just whining.

Everyone, if each of you donated as little as $5 to the Buy Stephen A New Brain Fund today I would run way with your money we can help this poor soul who cannot understand the basic concepts in front of his own nose.

</asshole> Time for my actual argument.

...

I don't deny that people will think "less" of me if I do not complete school or go to college. And frankly, I don't care what they think. I don't care that it will be hard to get a highly-paying job, because there is -- NEWS FLASH -- more to life than money. Shocking, I know.

Most of us are aware of the whole "you will work at mcdonalds" argument, we've been presented with it so many times. And you've been presented with refutations, and examples of why it isn't always true and how the alternative isn't much better (when it even is any better). If you are going to barge into our community and unilaterally state our beliefs -- which have been developed over the years based on actual evidence -- are outright wrong, and offer little to no substantiation, why do you expect us to just do a 180 when we are presented with your arguments which are not new to us or even well worded?

Are there groups that I disagree with? Hells yes. Do you see me running into churches and screaming "You have religion all wrong"? Hells no.

Now let's see...
Quote:Are you trying to say that grades don't matter? I really hope you don't think that.

Let's imagine you live in a cave on a mountainside. Let's imagine that you like this life. Suddenly, a man shows up at the mouth of your cave saying you need electricity installed, because it's "important." You respond something like "I'm living in a fucking cave and I have been for the last 50 years, and I've never needed electricity for anything." Oh, he says, but with electricity you can have light bulbs instead of the sun and a stove instead of a campfire and blah instead of blah...

And you reply: "Yes, but that would require me to pay a lot of money for the electric bill and to have the wires installed. And all in all it wouldn't improve things very much, at least not the things I care about. It wouldn't be worth it to me for the work I'd have to put in to make it possible."

"But having electricity is important!..."

"Do you really think you're the first person to try and sell this service to me?"

...

This is typical of the proponents of the school system. They do not think we are telling the truth, even when we are stating our own beliefs. My own mother, for example. She does not believe me when I say I oppose the school system. Not like she doesn't understand why, like she doesn't understand that this thought is in my head, that when I say "I hate it" that is actually what I mean, not "I am pettily annoyed with it."

I would proceed to explain to you WHY we are anti-school in the first place but the others have done a much better job than I ever could. And that won't be good enough for you anyway because it's not mainstream or anti-intellectual-freedom or materialist enough for you to comprehend as even existing.

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12-25-2013 08:11 AM
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Trar Away
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Post: #118
Smh...

To be fair, I can't blame him for worrying about money. Being poor just sucks, especially in this economy. ESPECIALLY when the government could take a number of easy actions to help alleviate some of the problems of poverty, yet won't (thanks GOP, also fuck you).

Electricity is nice, but it is entirely possible to live off the grid. Which is fine if you wish to do so.
12-25-2013 08:21 AM
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Post: #119
RE: Smh...

Waiting for some evidence of us being morons................. *eats popcorn*
12-25-2013 08:23 AM
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Post: #120
Smh...

I agree that I can't blame him for worrying about money, especially with the economy being so ridiculously unpredictable these days (more than ever really), and property prices skyrocketing.

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12-25-2013 08:23 AM
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