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Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide
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Chanku Offline
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Post: #31
Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

Trar, this is not Pixar. It probably wouldn't take that long...

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12-15-2013 01:19 PM
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Gwedin Offline
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Post: #32
Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

On the contrary. It'd take longer. Pixar has servers upon servers dedicated specifically to rendering.

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took me just over 15 hours to render. And that's just one frame. One ratherbasic frame (albeit, in 1080p). Imagine a scene filled with a crap load of characters and buildings. And consider that there is basically a required minimum of 24 frames per second.

Yeah... Rendering isn't fun when you aren't Pixar. Unless we intended to use the services of a render farm. But those are really expensive.
(This post was last modified: 12-15-2013 01:54 PM by Gwedin.)
12-15-2013 01:45 PM
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Chanku Offline
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Post: #33
Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

If we were to go the 3d model route then we might have to cut down the amount of objects on screen.....which wouldn't look too good....

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12-15-2013 01:48 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

I say we use flash. Nice and easy...

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12-15-2013 05:05 PM
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xcriteria Offline
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RE: Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

(12-14-2013 03:28 PM)Trar Wrote:  Improvisation could have a place in our prospective series. Since we're going to be relying on outside input, maybe we could improvise scenarios in the series. Maybe a scene from a student's home, for example. Obviously we're going to need to have a strong connection to what issue we're trying to get across in an improv scene; having actors who understand it would be good as well.

(12-14-2013 04:03 PM)SubCulture Wrote:  I've had a ton of experience at improv. If I was ever going to do this, I would only use my script as a guide. I've gotten A's on speeches I had no written format of. So yeah, I'm your improv guy.

Yeah, I like the idea of using a script as as starting point. Another form of this, for "reality" formats, is to set up a scenario and see what people do with it... like some kind of challenge or game.

I've actually been thinking about making a conversation game that would be a catalyst for people (real or fictional) to interact in ways that don't always happen automatically.

(That ties into this general theme of facilitating learning conversations, which I think... especially with a sort of improvisational element, and the right mix of people (including educators, administrators, parents, unhappy students, schoolers, psychiatrists, employers, etc.) could add depth to a series like this. (Not to mention, be interesting in real life.)

(12-14-2013 04:28 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Ive always given presentations and speeches without any notes or paper. Never understood why others couldnt really do it. Then again I do often enjoy making up Mussolini style speeches at home as practice. It comes naturally to do without notes.

Would you be up for acting in something like this, and/or participating as yourself in some kind of reality/documentary/hybrid production?

(Same question goes for anyone, but brainiac may have less family/travel issues than others.)

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12-16-2013 01:39 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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RE: Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

(12-15-2013 01:19 PM)Chanku Wrote:  Trar, this is not Pixar. It probably wouldn't take that long...

There are a variety of ways to do animation. 3D is one option, and yes, it's time-consuming and requires a lot of computer power. Drawing the images by hand is another. Using Flash or similar programs is yet another.

All result in different kinds of looks... but all do take time.

(12-15-2013 01:48 PM)Chanku Wrote:  If we were to go the 3d model route then we might have to cut down the amount of objects on screen.....which wouldn't look too good....

Exactly. That, or pay for render farms and get a team of 3D animators. I know one, we could probably find more, but people tend to want to be paid for their time unless they're really passionate about something.

That gets into a big set of topics: money, ownership, and control... a.k.a., who's in charge? If we could get money from somewhere (an investor, donors, a crowdfunding campaign), how would that fit into how things would proceed?

I like Morgan Spurlock's approach of finding brand sponsors to fund the production of his documentary about product placement in films. He got a lot of rejections, since he wanted to maintain full creative control over the film, but eventually made it happen.

Here's the TED talk where he explained how he did it... one of my favorite talks:



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A bit different than what we're doing, but there's a LOT of money spent on education in its various forms by companies, governments, and individuals... and a lot of people aren't happy with the state of education... and a lot of people know that learning is undergoing major transformations as everyone has access to all this information and interactions that used to be (supposedly) hidden within places called schools and colleges.

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12-16-2013 02:03 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

Regarding animation vs. live-action, I think the way to do it is to create a mix of content as part of one overall storyworld... where the production itself is part of the story, including this right here.

Check out this 4-minute clip from the Future of Storytelling course I have linked in my signature.

(Also see Real Life Writes the Plot on TV Tropes and explore the linked pages there for some more on the line between real life, storytelling, and the process of production.)

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RE: Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

(12-15-2013 01:45 PM)Gwedin Wrote:  took me just over 15 hours to render. And that's just one frame. One ratherbasic frame (albeit, in 1080p). Imagine a scene filled with a crap load of characters and buildings. And consider that there is basically a required minimum of 24 frames per second.

Yeah... Rendering isn't fun when you aren't Pixar. Unless we intended to use the services of a render farm. But those are really expensive.

Yeah, that's where having a budget is useful, and using animation for specific sequences within a larger live action/text/image-based work has value.

Did you also make this one? How long did that take to build... and what would it take to produce, say, a 30-second film with multiple characters interacting?

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12-16-2013 02:15 AM
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Chanku Offline
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Post: #39
Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

Well I'd estimate a few minutes to an hour, depending on how many objects are in the scene...

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12-16-2013 04:46 AM
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Gwedin Offline
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Post: #40
Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

LOL. Nice find. Razz (EDIT: Bah, I didn't think I posted that on these forums, hence my initial "LOL".) Yehp, that's my trademark character, Max (I ought to work on him one of these days). Smile IDK how long it took to model everything as I made a lot of the objects in that scene individually. I know for a fact I spent about a month working on Max before I even had him looking somewhat decent (I'm a lot better at character modelling now, thank God).

It depends. Honestly I made 3D animation sound a lot more time-consuming than it actually is in my post. We could cut out easily a week of modelling/rigging/texturing by acquiring characters from a website (I recommend Blendswap.com as, if we were to do it in 3D, we'd be using Blender presumably). We'd just be required to find models that allow us to use them commercially as long as we credit the author in the credits, and, IIRC, most people on Blendswap use this licence.

The actual scene is rather easy to make... Like buildings and furniture and whatnot. And, again, these assets could be acquired from Blendswap.

I presume by "interact" you mean conversations. In other words, lip syncing. The only field I don't have any experience in so I can't comment as to how long it'd take.

As for rendering. 30 seconds is like *does some math* (fuck, that actually took me ages) 720 frames... I have a server in my room that I don't use (HP Proliant ML350 G3) that we could use for rendering purposes, if we can't find any other rendering alternative. And the render time will vary a lot, depending on which render engine we use. Of course, the more realistic one takes longer. I can't give a fair estimate on how long it'd take.

Sadly I physically won't be able to do any animating because my computer sucks (HP Mini 110, blah) but if we are to use this approach I'd be willing to help in other ways.

But. Before we even CONSIDER this, I suggest we write a storyboard.
(This post was last modified: 12-16-2013 09:36 AM by Gwedin.)
12-16-2013 08:11 AM
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Trar Away
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Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

Maybe we could use a range of animations. I'm thinking a primarily live-action series with snippets of animated material. Flash works for Wayside School and, yes, Friendship is Magic, and I think it could work for us. Also input from the makers of the series and other real-life stories as extra content could enhance the series.

I'm thinking we could set up a front or trust for financial/ownership concerns. Corporate or group funding could be useful but we need to pick the right source. While I'm at it, Supersize Me had its own host of problems (relating to the film, not its funding). But that's for another post Razz
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Post: #42
RE: Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

Bumping because we need to talk about this. I have nothing to add execpt START DISCUSSING.

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05-10-2014 04:48 PM
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xcriteria Offline
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RE: Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

Yeah, I think the time is here to begin a transmedia series about the various things that are happening in the world of transforming education.

Some of us have talked about this in the chat.

It probably makes sense to start a new thread, but this one has some elements to think about. What I have in mind is primarily documentary/reality/journalistic in nature, but within/alongside that reality-based series, we can feature fictional works. Some Alternate Reality Game elements could be included as well.

(VICE is one model to keep in mind.)

I posted some ideas for this series, including printing a physical book+journal with some highlights from here and a few other places, over on G+. (That thread also links back to here.)

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05-10-2014 09:23 PM
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RE: Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

(12-16-2013 08:11 AM)Gwedin Wrote:  Sadly I physically won't be able to do any animating because my computer sucks (HP Mini 110, blah) but if we are to use this approach I'd be willing to help in other ways.

But. Before we even CONSIDER this, I suggest we write a storyboard.

What about something like http://goanimate.com/ for animation?

Yes, a storyboard is something to make. So is a script, for that matter... at least scripts for interviews and so on that can serve as input for the documentary/reality portions of things.

(12-16-2013 03:26 PM)Trar Wrote:  Maybe we could use a range of animations. I'm thinking a primarily live-action series with snippets of animated material. Flash works for Wayside School and, yes, Friendship is Magic, and I think it could work for us. Also input from the makers of the series and other real-life stories as extra content could enhance the series.

Yes, exactly... including behind-the-scenes/making-of elements.

Last night on a hangout, some of us also discussed having several named sub-series, like one I've informally started relating to conflict resolution. I can imagine another that briefly covers updates/recaps from School Survival, maybe with some other items.

(12-16-2013 03:26 PM)Trar Wrote:  I'm thinking we could set up a front or trust for financial/ownership concerns. Corporate or group funding could be useful but we need to pick the right source. While I'm at it, Supersize Me had its own host of problems (relating to the film, not its funding). But that's for another post Razz

It's definitely worth being careful about what funding we take. This is where a sub-series (or even spinoff ones) of some sort could be useful, that could take different points of view, while at least the main series documents funding sources and influencers in education.

One big question is how "we" is defined. It'd be simpler in many ways to have a single (or a small number) of people making the decisions, at least on each sub-series. Too many people trying to run a creative production can lead to all kinds of standstills.

A similar question can be asked regarding the movement to create learner-centric schools. One idea that's been bumped around is a sort of consortium of independently-run schools (or networks of schools), which would maintain some overall guidelines, and things like rights for participants in member schools. But, the schools (or specific networks of them) would be independently owned and operated.

Adding a documentary/reality/journalistic element to all that is a big part of what I envision for this series idea.

Thoughts on that?

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05-10-2014 09:38 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

(05-10-2014 09:38 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  What about something like http://goanimate.com/ for animation?
(05-10-2014 09:38 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  http://goanimate.com/ for animation?
(05-10-2014 09:38 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  goanimate

*jumps out the window*

Yeah, I've heard it's at least easy to use, but GA puts their watermark on everything, and is generally despised by people who actually know how animation works. I've not heard good things about it.

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05-11-2014 12:46 AM
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RE: Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

(05-11-2014 12:46 AM)DoA Wrote:  *jumps out the window*

Yeah, I've heard it's at least easy to use, but GA puts their watermark on everything, and is generally despised by people who actually know how animation works. I've not heard good things about it.

Lol, that's extreme!

They have a pricing plan where there's no watermark.

However cost is a downside.

On the other hand, professional animation takes a lot of work, computing power, and skill.

There's the question of what we can feasibly do. I mean, the world is saturated with information, tools, and experiences, and yet so many gaps remain. What will it take for enough people to agree on a set of approaches, and put in the effort/risk/time to move this plot forward? Smile

Another option is sequences of static frames with voiceover.

And of course, live video, Prezis, web pages, text, G+, hangouts, and all that.

The question is just how to start making something that can be adapted into a "ready for the world" state of one sort or another. (As in, promotion-worthy, share-worthy, tell people-worthy.)

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05-11-2014 01:17 AM
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Post: #47
Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

Thanks for the bump, xcriteria.

This seems like a project that is possible in the summer. I should have a lot of free time. I think Mark Poole was suggesting something about remote control. I've never remote controlled a computer, though I am familiar with some of the software.

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Post: #48
RE: Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

(05-11-2014 12:46 AM)DoA Wrote:  
(05-10-2014 09:38 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  What about something like http://goanimate.com/ for animation?
(05-10-2014 09:38 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  http://goanimate.com/ for animation?
(05-10-2014 09:38 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  goanimate

*jumps out the window*

Yeah, I've heard it's at least easy to use, but GA puts their watermark on everything, and is generally despised by people who actually know how animation works. I've not heard good things about it.

Yeah. It'd just get buried by stuff like this due to it's lack of unique animation:


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Post: #49
Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

GoAnimate is only worth anything because of the stupid and weird cartoons the demented fandom makes with it. It's true art, but we're not here to just make art.

Considering where we are and what we have, I'm seriously doubting we can make any sort of animated cartoon that will make waves. If we're going to do that, we need a way to make a decent product, which will require money and/or expertise, which will require publicity. Which we would be better off acquiring via written material, possibly augmented with Hangout clips. Possibly. Still on the fence here. If we could get a good camera and cameraman to film Justin and his efforts, though, I'd support that.

EDIT: That video is gold, Nyan. Literally 60 percent of the video is Caillou's parents chewing him out in typical GoAnimate grounded video fashion (astoundingly shitty special effect play, inhuman facsimile of screaming that lasts for 15 seconds, you are grounded for several quadrillion years and I will painstakingly narrate the exact number to you) because he used magic/had enough engineering and design skill to transform a fancy restaurant into a Chuck E. Cheeses.

EDIT EDIT: This fucking thing has more than 17k views? And that's on the LOW end of the scale when compared to the related videos?
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05-14-2014 02:34 PM
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RE: Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

(12-09-2013 04:26 PM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  A lot of it does sound like whitewashed propaganda. Barely any of it sounds useful when actually surviving prison.

I wonder if in the near future there will be a gritty reboot of it, but instead of it being satire, it's a serious drama about being in an authoritarian hellhole of a school, with useful survival tips. That'd cause a shitload of controversy.

Why os peplde so braimwash?

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"CONSENSUAL incest is not wrong. (Abuse victims: being abused by a relative does not make it wrong for others to have consensual incest, any more than rape by a stranger makes all sex wrong. Sex and assault/molestation are two different things.) An aversion became common in humans that aided in population growth as one disease couldn't wipe out the human race. That's not a problem anymore.

Consensual incest is very common. You know people who have been involved, whether you know it or not.

There is no rational reason for keeping laws or taboos against consensual
incest that is consistently applied to other relationships. Personal disgust or religion is only a reason why one person would not want to personally engage in what I call consanguinamory, not why someone else shouldn't do it. An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with ANY consenting adults. Youthful experimentation between close relatives close in age is not uncommon, and there are more people than you'd think out there who are in lifelong healthy, happy relationships with a close relative. It isn't for everyone, but we're not all going to want to have each others' love lives, now are we? If someone thinks YOUR love life is disgusting, should you be thrown in prison?

Some people try to justify their prejudice against consanguineous sex and
marriage by being part-time eugenicists and saying that such relationships inevitably lead to “mutant” or “deformed” babies. This argument can be refuted on several fronts. 1. Some consanguineous relationships involve only people of the same gender. 2. Not all mixed-gender relationships birth biological children. 3. Most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant birth defects or other genetic problems; while births to other parents do sometimes have birth defects. 4. We don’t prevent other people from marrying or deny them their reproductive rights based on increased odds of passing along a genetic problem or inherited disease. It is true that in general, children born to consanguineous parents have an increased chance of these problems than those born to nonconsanguineous parents, but the odds are still minimal. Unless someone is willing to deny reproductive rights and medical privacy to others and force everyone to take genetic tests and bar carriers and the congenitally disabled and women over 35 from having children, then equal protection principles prevent this from being a justification to bar this freedom of association and freedom to marry.

Some say "Your sibling should not be your lover." That is not a reason. It begs the question. Many people have many relationships that have more than one aspect. Some women say their sister is their best friend. Why can’t their sister be a wife, too?

Some say “There is a power differential.” This applies least of all to siblings or cousins who are close in age, but even where the power differential exists, it is not a justification for denying this freedom to sex or to marry. There is a power differential in just about any relationship, sometimes an enormous power differential. To question if consent is truly possible in these cases is insulting and demeaning.

Some say “There are so many people outside of your family." There are plenty of people within one’s own race, too, but that is no reason to ban interracial marriage. So, this isn't a good reason either. Let consenting adults love each other the way they want!"-Keith Pullman

12-23-2016 05:21 AM
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