RIP School Survival Forums
August 2001 - June 2017

The School Survival Forums are permanently retired. If you need help with quitting school, unsupportive parents or anything else, there is a list of resources on the Help Page.

To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

-SoulRiser

The forums are mostly read-only and are in a maintenance/testing phase, before being permanently archived. Please use this time to get the contact details of people you'd like to keep in touch with. Send me a message if you'd like to keep in touch with me & Steve.

Please do not make a mirror copy of the forums in their current state - things will still change, and some people have requested to be able to edit or delete some of their personal info.


Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!
Author Message
James Comey Away
Banished Oldfaf in Exile

Posts: 6,519
Joined: Aug 2013
Thanks: 1081
Given 2293 thank(s) in 1517 post(s)
Post: #1
People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

Conformity is when people decide to accept things the way they are, accept social norms and become obedient to higher authorities. While maturity is more harder to define, this cartoon perfectly nails it:
http://cdn-www.i-am-bored.com/media/whereareyouiab.jpg

A lot of people claim school teaches maturity, but it does the exact opposite! The thing it really is trying to teach is conformity, but they disguise it under the word "maturity".

Remember, you can be a rebel and be mature. You don't have to be conformed to be mature.

RIP GWEDIN
RIP URITIYOGI
RIP NIGHT
RIP VONUNOV
RIP WES/THEWAKE
RIP USERNAME

[Image: Nas-One-Love.jpg]

Stop jerking off to porn and whining and do something about it

Make School Survival Great Again - MSSGA

Hidden stuff:

[Image: BallsofSteel2.png]
[Image: mg_michelle_2020.png]
11-28-2013 11:24 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: Gwedin , Avatar Korra , The man
Gwedin Offline
dumb shithead

Posts: 2,361
Joined: May 2013
Thanks: 217
Given 559 thank(s) in 410 post(s)
Post: #2
People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

My signature. Biggrin
11-28-2013 11:46 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
brainiac3397 Offline
Machiavellian Amoeba

Posts: 9,823
Joined: Feb 2013
Thanks: 20
Given 1984 thank(s) in 1428 post(s)
Post: #3
RE: People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

Epic cartoon.

Though its problematic when your on the top and your parents are on bottom(or in between).

Personality DNA Report
(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

Hidden stuff:
[Image: watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme-240x180.png]
Brainiac3397's Mental Health Status Log Wrote:[Image: l0Iy5HKskJO5XD3Wg.gif]
11-28-2013 12:23 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
154bmag Offline
One in a million

Posts: 232
Joined: Jul 2013
Thanks: 11
Given 93 thank(s) in 55 post(s)
Post: #4
People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

"I don't wanna waste my time, and become another victim of conformity" --Sum 41

"When will the world listen to reason? I have a feeling it'll be a long time." --Dexter Holland

"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows as government grows, liberty decreases. " --Thomas Jefferson
11-28-2013 12:46 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Miller0700 Offline
Here to save you.

Posts: 3,405
Joined: Oct 2010
Thanks: 64
Given 137 thank(s) in 84 post(s)
Post: #5
RE: People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

I think your comic enforced the fact that conformity is inevitable. Though you (and most cynical and socially awkward internet dwellers) stray and shun mainstream conformity, you're just falling into another one. People conform to hating conformity, and there's those who hate those who hate mainstream conformity and so on. It's an endless cycle.

Previously known as Derchin.
11-30-2013 09:27 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
brainiac3397 Offline
Machiavellian Amoeba

Posts: 9,823
Joined: Feb 2013
Thanks: 20
Given 1984 thank(s) in 1428 post(s)
Post: #6
RE: People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

(11-30-2013 09:27 AM)Miller0700 Wrote:  I think your comic enforced the fact that conformity is inevitable. Though you (and most cynical and socially awkward internet dwellers) stray and shun mainstream conformity, you're just falling into another one. People conform to hating conformity, and there's those who hate those who hate mainstream conformity and so on. It's an endless cycle.

If you noticed, they're all the same species like us as humans. Some things we just don't have control of(unless you believe in reincarnation. Then you might return as a goat or something)

Personality DNA Report
(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

Hidden stuff:
[Image: watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme-240x180.png]
Brainiac3397's Mental Health Status Log Wrote:[Image: l0Iy5HKskJO5XD3Wg.gif]
11-30-2013 12:35 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
xcriteria Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 3,093
Joined: Oct 2005
Thanks: 814
Given 930 thank(s) in 612 post(s)
Post: #7
RE: People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

I shared this to the G+ Conversation community:

https://plus.google.com/1059086549590682...LsE26SsHrQ

Epic cartoon, indeed.

And brainiac, good question. What do you do?

Peter Gray & allies launching the Alliance for Self-directed Education

ASDE Newsletters: #1 Announcement | #2 History of ASDE | #6 Education Liberation


School Survival & Catalyst Learning Network featured on AlternativestoSchool's blog
“Mom, Dad, can I stop going to school?”

Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking when the Stakes are High

Hidden stuff:
12-01-2013 04:34 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
brainiac3397 Offline
Machiavellian Amoeba

Posts: 9,823
Joined: Feb 2013
Thanks: 20
Given 1984 thank(s) in 1428 post(s)
Post: #8
RE: People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

"What do you do?"?

The parents thing or the goat reincarnation?

(I just minimize the impact by skirting certain issues or preparing things in a way before hand, with my supa planning skills, to handle it. But when a issue arises unexpectedly, it usually leads to an arguement and tension with my mother. My father still respects anothers opinion so there is no need to argue but his behaviors do irk me sometimes and leave me in problematic situations when I rely on him)

Personality DNA Report
(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

Hidden stuff:
[Image: watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme-240x180.png]
Brainiac3397's Mental Health Status Log Wrote:[Image: l0Iy5HKskJO5XD3Wg.gif]
12-01-2013 04:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
xcriteria Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 3,093
Joined: Oct 2005
Thanks: 814
Given 930 thank(s) in 612 post(s)
Post: #9
RE: People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

(11-30-2013 09:27 AM)Miller0700 Wrote:  I think your comic enforced the fact that conformity is inevitable. Though you (and most cynical and socially awkward internet dwellers) stray and shun mainstream conformity, you're just falling into another one. People conform to hating conformity, and there's those who hate those who hate mainstream conformity and so on. It's an endless cycle.

I don't think it has to be an endless cycle. The point of the image is that there's a journey to undertake, and a way out. Being stuck in shunning conformity, in an "angry young man" trope, has its limits, but it's possible to move beyond that.

What is maturity beyond conformity? How can it be lived, modeled, and learned by more people?

Isn't that part of what education in the modern world needs to be about?

Peter Gray & allies launching the Alliance for Self-directed Education

ASDE Newsletters: #1 Announcement | #2 History of ASDE | #6 Education Liberation


School Survival & Catalyst Learning Network featured on AlternativestoSchool's blog
“Mom, Dad, can I stop going to school?”

Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking when the Stakes are High

Hidden stuff:
12-01-2013 04:45 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
xcriteria Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 3,093
Joined: Oct 2005
Thanks: 814
Given 930 thank(s) in 612 post(s)
Post: #10
RE: People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

(12-01-2013 04:42 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  "What do you do?"?

The parents thing or the goat reincarnation?

The parents thing:

(11-28-2013 12:23 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Epic cartoon.

Though its problematic when your on the top and your parents are on bottom(or in between).

Peter Gray & allies launching the Alliance for Self-directed Education

ASDE Newsletters: #1 Announcement | #2 History of ASDE | #6 Education Liberation


School Survival & Catalyst Learning Network featured on AlternativestoSchool's blog
“Mom, Dad, can I stop going to school?”

Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking when the Stakes are High

Hidden stuff:
(This post was last modified: 12-01-2013 04:50 PM by xcriteria.)
12-01-2013 04:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
brainiac3397 Offline
Machiavellian Amoeba

Posts: 9,823
Joined: Feb 2013
Thanks: 20
Given 1984 thank(s) in 1428 post(s)
Post: #11
RE: People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

Stuck it into the parantheses, though my father is more like having been on top but slid somewhat into the middle. Not so low, but lower than his position before.

Personality DNA Report
(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

Hidden stuff:
[Image: watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme-240x180.png]
Brainiac3397's Mental Health Status Log Wrote:[Image: l0Iy5HKskJO5XD3Wg.gif]
12-01-2013 05:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
James Comey Away
Banished Oldfaf in Exile

Posts: 6,519
Joined: Aug 2013
Thanks: 1081
Given 2293 thank(s) in 1517 post(s)
Post: #12
People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

I have to admit, it's also hard when most of your peers at school are also at the bottom.

RIP GWEDIN
RIP URITIYOGI
RIP NIGHT
RIP VONUNOV
RIP WES/THEWAKE
RIP USERNAME

[Image: Nas-One-Love.jpg]

Stop jerking off to porn and whining and do something about it

Make School Survival Great Again - MSSGA

Hidden stuff:

[Image: BallsofSteel2.png]
[Image: mg_michelle_2020.png]
12-01-2013 05:13 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
brainiac3397 Offline
Machiavellian Amoeba

Posts: 9,823
Joined: Feb 2013
Thanks: 20
Given 1984 thank(s) in 1428 post(s)
Post: #13
RE: People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

Can we roll boulders down upon them? We can blame gravity later if accused.

Personality DNA Report
(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

Hidden stuff:
[Image: watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme-240x180.png]
Brainiac3397's Mental Health Status Log Wrote:[Image: l0Iy5HKskJO5XD3Wg.gif]
12-01-2013 05:43 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
xcriteria Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 3,093
Joined: Oct 2005
Thanks: 814
Given 930 thank(s) in 612 post(s)
Post: #14
RE: People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

(12-01-2013 05:13 PM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  I have to admit, it's also hard when most of your peers at school are also at the bottom.

Put yourself in the role of teachers or parents, or even rulers. What do you do?

(12-01-2013 05:43 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Can we roll boulders down upon them? We can blame gravity later if accused.

We're no longer in Old Testament times... so no, come up with a better approach, or else! Razz

Peter Gray & allies launching the Alliance for Self-directed Education

ASDE Newsletters: #1 Announcement | #2 History of ASDE | #6 Education Liberation


School Survival & Catalyst Learning Network featured on AlternativestoSchool's blog
“Mom, Dad, can I stop going to school?”

Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking when the Stakes are High

Hidden stuff:
12-01-2013 05:54 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
brainiac3397 Offline
Machiavellian Amoeba

Posts: 9,823
Joined: Feb 2013
Thanks: 20
Given 1984 thank(s) in 1428 post(s)
Post: #15
RE: People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

So we roll plasma TV and Iphones instead?

Itd be like a blessing till they realize gravity makes it lethal.

Personality DNA Report
(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

Hidden stuff:
[Image: watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme-240x180.png]
Brainiac3397's Mental Health Status Log Wrote:[Image: l0Iy5HKskJO5XD3Wg.gif]
12-01-2013 06:02 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
xcriteria Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 3,093
Joined: Oct 2005
Thanks: 814
Given 930 thank(s) in 612 post(s)
Post: #16
RE: People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

(12-01-2013 06:02 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  So we roll plasma TV and Iphones instead?

Itd be like a blessing till they realize gravity makes it lethal.

Heh, that reminds me of this clip:



Watch on YouTube

Iphones, gravity, and all that.

Any more thoughts on what to do?

Peter Gray & allies launching the Alliance for Self-directed Education

ASDE Newsletters: #1 Announcement | #2 History of ASDE | #6 Education Liberation


School Survival & Catalyst Learning Network featured on AlternativestoSchool's blog
“Mom, Dad, can I stop going to school?”

Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking when the Stakes are High

Hidden stuff:
12-01-2013 06:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: Gwedin
Ky Offline
Shadow

Posts: 5,201
Joined: Aug 2012
Thanks: 1798
Given 1468 thank(s) in 972 post(s)
Post: #17
People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

^ Heads up - I'm about to unleash my rage

[Image: rage-7.gif]

FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS ARE STILL PROBLEMS

Lol, jk. I've seen that video before, and I think it's hilarious. Still, it's an oversimplification; the whining of the first world is not completely meaningless. Indeed, it could be an indicator of under-the-surface struggle or covert conspiracy within the first world.

The people who complain about every little thing might do this because it is the only way they can communicate emotional turmoil or resolve childhood trauma. The seemingly little problems (like traffic jams and TV advertisements) are actually indicators of lost revenue and missed opportunities, things that the first world cannot afford forever. While poverty and starvation are huge problems, to use them to put "smaller" problems in "perspective" is an incorrect means of thinking; problems are not separate but cumulative.

Before this turns into a wall of text, I would like to finish by saying that first world problems don't go away by bringing up starving kids in Africa, or berating the person with those problems. First world problems go away when people have first world solutions.

...That sounded really cheesy.

Public Service Announcement: First world problems are still problems.
12-02-2013 08:00 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: xcriteria , no , The man , Avatar Korra
xcriteria Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 3,093
Joined: Oct 2005
Thanks: 814
Given 930 thank(s) in 612 post(s)
Post: #18
RE: People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

DoA, I agree. There's the whole concept of unmet emotional needs.

Hidden stuff:

One approach to therapy that addresses unmet emotional needs is schema therapy. This is a version of cognitive therapy that looks at different schemas or frames people use to interpret the world.

Arguably, one sign of "maturity" in a positive sense is the ability to shift between schemas and ways of framing things. For example, recognizing one's own needs and feelings as valid, but also being aware of the cumulative situations of others don't have to be incompatible.

Sometimes people do get stuck in seeing unsolvable problems when there are solutions.

And, a lot of times people just get stuck in habits. Becoming aware of these, including cognitive habits, and adjusting them where it makes sense (if possible) is one step toward what you could call "maturity."

This links back into the discussion of If schools are to prepare us for life, why don't they teach us anything useful? and the related question of what is useful, and how can we best learn it.

Hidden stuff:

In that First World Problems video, I can relate to the "now I have to get another one" reaction with all of these MOOCs and free content available. It seems like such an amazing thing to access a free college course, and it is... these would have cost huge amounts of money to take in the past.

But now, there are countless MOOCs and free content, it takes a "first world solution" to figure out how to navigate that wealth of (potential) knowledge. And, this vacuum still exists where people often don't have much exposure to "maturity" or experiences and examples that would lead to it.

One indication of that is the all-too-common situation of bullying. Mindless partying is another. What will it take to connect learning to people, when the possibilities for it are increasingly pervasive?

Peter Gray & allies launching the Alliance for Self-directed Education

ASDE Newsletters: #1 Announcement | #2 History of ASDE | #6 Education Liberation


School Survival & Catalyst Learning Network featured on AlternativestoSchool's blog
“Mom, Dad, can I stop going to school?”

Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking when the Stakes are High

Hidden stuff:
12-02-2013 01:46 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
xcriteria Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 3,093
Joined: Oct 2005
Thanks: 814
Given 930 thank(s) in 612 post(s)
Post: #19
RE: People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

Another thought: my share of that maturity image on G+ has been viewed over 800 times, thanks to the conversation community. I wonder how people actually process a complex image like that.

It looks cool, but then what?

One item on the image that jumped out at me was "obsessed with questions." Does that have to be a "yellow"-coded item? I think it depends on the questions, where they come from, and how answers are pursued and used.

Being "obsessed with facts" is coded green... but what if the facts are incorrect, or misinterpreted?

I think that asking good questions, and being able to understand the purpose of questions, is an important part of developing into a complete person.

How might a chart like this be used as part of a "lesson" or just as a catalyst for conversation?

Peter Gray & allies launching the Alliance for Self-directed Education

ASDE Newsletters: #1 Announcement | #2 History of ASDE | #6 Education Liberation


School Survival & Catalyst Learning Network featured on AlternativestoSchool's blog
“Mom, Dad, can I stop going to school?”

Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking when the Stakes are High

Hidden stuff:
12-02-2013 01:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: Avatar Korra
Ky Offline
Shadow

Posts: 5,201
Joined: Aug 2012
Thanks: 1798
Given 1468 thank(s) in 972 post(s)
Post: #20
RE: People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

(12-02-2013 01:59 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  One item on the image that jumped out at me was "obsessed with questions." Does that have to be a "yellow"-coded item? I think it depends on the questions, where they come from, and how answers are pursued and used.

Being "obsessed with facts" is coded green... but what if the facts are incorrect, or misinterpreted?

I thought the exact same thing! What is a fact without a question, and what makes it a fact? My personality type is not considered fact-oriented yet is considered very wise. How is this? I think this is because there is more to communication than information or logic; there is the piercing shot of a question, and the common ground of emotion.

Public Service Announcement: First world problems are still problems.
12-03-2013 07:11 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
James Comey Away
Banished Oldfaf in Exile

Posts: 6,519
Joined: Aug 2013
Thanks: 1081
Given 2293 thank(s) in 1517 post(s)
Post: #21
People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

Wow I was a total shithead when I made this thread originally.

I wish I could do 2011-2015 all over again.

RIP GWEDIN
RIP URITIYOGI
RIP NIGHT
RIP VONUNOV
RIP WES/THEWAKE
RIP USERNAME

[Image: Nas-One-Love.jpg]

Stop jerking off to porn and whining and do something about it

Make School Survival Great Again - MSSGA

Hidden stuff:

[Image: BallsofSteel2.png]
[Image: mg_michelle_2020.png]
03-30-2017 02:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
brainiac3397 Offline
Machiavellian Amoeba

Posts: 9,823
Joined: Feb 2013
Thanks: 20
Given 1984 thank(s) in 1428 post(s)
Post: #22
RE: People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

(03-30-2017 02:24 PM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  Wow I was a total shithead when I made this thread originally.

I wish I could do 2011-2015 all over again.

Nuffin wrong with the topic/statement though.

Personality DNA Report
(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

Hidden stuff:
[Image: watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme-240x180.png]
Brainiac3397's Mental Health Status Log Wrote:[Image: l0Iy5HKskJO5XD3Wg.gif]
03-31-2017 02:37 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
James Comey Away
Banished Oldfaf in Exile

Posts: 6,519
Joined: Aug 2013
Thanks: 1081
Given 2293 thank(s) in 1517 post(s)
Post: #23
People, Conformity is NOT Maturity!

No, not at all. The thread/statement is perfectly fine. But the attitude I adopted was incredibly shitty and condescending. I was a "nice guy"... thank fucking god I got out of that phase.

RIP GWEDIN
RIP URITIYOGI
RIP NIGHT
RIP VONUNOV
RIP WES/THEWAKE
RIP USERNAME

[Image: Nas-One-Love.jpg]

Stop jerking off to porn and whining and do something about it

Make School Survival Great Again - MSSGA

Hidden stuff:

[Image: BallsofSteel2.png]
[Image: mg_michelle_2020.png]
03-31-2017 03:27 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  The Maturity Climb Desu 23 10,412 04-14-2017 06:08 AM
Last Post: James Comey

Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | School Survival | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication