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How Do We Change the School System?
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #31
How Do We Change the School System?

It's worse coming from an immigrant family. They're usually more prone to rigidly adhering to the brainwashing doctrines, and will not stop even for a second to think over the logic.

I know if I spent a 1000 years explaining that school was just never right for me to my mother, she would still never understand it. First coming from an uneducated background(low education that is), coming from a nation that was at time struggling to progress socially and economically, and coming to a nation that people considered the greatest nation in everything. Basically it was like a 3D brainwashing that has left no opening to think outside the box.

That's also why I think the hippie movement was pretty much Americans taking advantage of a crack found in the brainwashing, then tearing it apart. Then they found disco...

The problem today lays in the fact that the view of school has pretty much changed in the US. It's pretty much a rite of passage now, and one that usually doesn't provide for those who show effort. Being academically successful once meant actually being competent and intelligent, but now it's just reward for obedience and popularity(like the advantages of being on the sports team). The smart ones are punished for being smart, and the popular/obedient ones rewarded for their ass-kissing.

We need a model here somewhere on this thread. A model that represents the flaws in the entire school system(from k-12 to college), based on separate tiers:Student level-Teacher level-Admin level-Board level-State level-Federal level.

Of course there would be connections being explained between them and the flaws in these relationships(like relationship between admin and student, or state and teacher). I'd draw a diagram to make it clearer, but that'll have to wait till tomorrow morning.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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Post: #32
How Do We Change the School System?

Basically in a nutshell, Brainwashing is school's most effective method/weapon, It's not one sided it goes for students and parents,

students:Regular brainwashing / killing creativity and innovative thinking
parents: parents minds are set to think that school is the best form of education, it doesn't matter what cases or researches they are shown of nor do they think about their kid socially (that differs from parent to parent, there are plenty of parents who do the maximum for their kid's social situation) and if you will try to change their perspective about school you will get into a fight with them. :|
11-04-2013 02:36 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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RE: How Do We Change the School System?

(11-03-2013 04:30 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  I've recently begun thinking about some sort of website which is a collection of what you describe, xcriteria. A collection of writings, videos, conversations, musings, personal experiences, etc. Basically, a sort of social networking site in which students and also teachers that have rebelled against the system can use to communicate their ideas with each other. One forum that is mostly about venting about school and complaining about the system is not enough, we must create some sort of "network" of sites that talk about changing the system. We need to spread the word if we're going to see more change.

Exactly.

Regarding building a network, one angle I see is encouraging people of all kinds to establish their own "personal learning networks."

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Here, Will Richardson talks about Personal Learning Networks, as he wrote about in the book he co-authored with Rob Mancabelli, Personal Learning Networks: Using the Power of Connections to Transform Education.



Watch on YouTube

But, we can certainly help facilitate that. Connectivist MOOCs are one model that works well for that.

On a related note, the thread Ken Robinson: How to escape education's death valley (new TED talk) is highly relevant to this one. I got into explaining what cMOOCs are there... and Eidolon's comment on that thread is relevant to Hansgrohe's comment that I quoted.

(09-22-2013 01:45 AM)Eidolon Wrote:  Something I've always loved, though, is reading real books. I would MUCH rather learn from a nice book than from an internet page. The problem is that they just don't have the benefits of the internet. You can't see a video of something that the book is explaining, and often, being shown is better than being told. Some combination of books and the internet would be awesome.

I'm imagining a book with QR codes scattered throughout, in places where the internet would provide a helpful avenue for understanding, that you can scan with your smartphone or tablet computer to see videos or listen to a sound clip. Or even something like joining an online conversation. Maybe a forum topic, or something on Google+?

How can all the books people on the forums are working on be linked to some kind of online, and in-person, interaction? How might they be conversation-starters?

Sometimes physical objects can get people's attention in ways web sites can't... and yet at the same time, many people spend so much of their focus on screen-based interaction.

Ideas on any of that?

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11-04-2013 03:58 AM
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RE: How Do We Change the School System?

Think of how the creators of the school system made the system. They knew that you can't easily mold an adult into an obedient worker, so therefore, youth was their target. Therefore, if kids learn at an early age that the school system is not much more than a factory producing mindlessly obedient drones that are used for work, they will grow up believing that. Meanwhile, encourage them to learn, on their own, anything that interests them. Eventually, there will be enough adults in society that firmly believe that the way society works must change, and that there are better ways to learn than public/private school.

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06-04-2014 01:07 PM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #35
How Do We Change the School System?

The viking way is the only way.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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06-04-2014 01:15 PM
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Post: #36
How Do We Change the School System?

I don't believe anyone can make substantiative changes that would result in a complete overhaul. Small changes can be implemented to make schools more accountable and bearable. First end teacher tenure, easier said than done. Second shorten instructional time putting more emphasis on quality of education rather than quantity. Thirdly if theft or assault occurs on school premises make the schools civilly liable. Remember admin and teachers are acting in loco parentis therefore, they are responsible for all that occurs.

On a side note I predict that within five years all schools will gravitate towards year round instruction. I am unsure as to whether the teachers unions will support this measure or not. Chances are the teachers will mewl and puke over salaries and various states and provinces will cave in. Year round is a dangerous thing in my books, you hear all the counter arguments "it help with the retention of learning", "you still get the same amount of time off". Anyone with half a brain knows this is the retention theory is bs, I guarantee you they will short vacation periods significantly.

The end goal is being able to hold people long term in these schools to maximize tax money flowing into boards and districts. "asian countries go year round why shouldn't we catch up here in north america". The more people who hold a college degree the less value in the workforce it holds, simple economics. Stagnation of wages leads to desperation, were in for a bumpy ride over the next decade.
06-07-2014 05:00 PM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #37
How Do We Change the School System?

I agree - small changes will never result in an overhaul.

That's why our approach has to be a deconstruction of traditional schooling, in two senses: Firstly, we would break down what's wrong with it and show people that there are viable alternatives that are worth taking. Secondly, people, knowing this, would reform and overhaul the system to better suit people's needs, removing the original system in the process.

I agree that there needs to come an end to tenure, lengthened instruction time, and unreported theft.

I don't think year round instruction is going to happen anytime soon; the entire concept has been in debate for decades and the final verdict is that the summer break is the ideal separation from school due to giving teachers time to plan and students time to release stress. The "learning retention" crowd is thought of as misguided by many people who are otherwise fervently pro-school. I don't think any unions, as a whole, support year round instruction, perhaps because of the detrimental effect it would pose to teachers alone. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, school is all about the status quo, and I don't think bureaucrats would be so quick to brace for a complete schedule overhaul nationwide.

I've said this before, but Asian countries are not economically innovative; all they have going for them is the sheer amount of labor. Their education makes it impossible to be a center of good ideas of any kind, and following them would remove the only edge the US has: creativity.

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06-08-2014 02:21 AM
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Post: #38
How Do We Change the School System?

I say we do whatever the Germans do.
06-08-2014 02:52 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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How Do We Change the School System?

Now is a good time for this thread to come back to life. Smile

This can be one of the prompts/readings for Summer of Connected Learning.

(06-04-2014 01:07 PM)insanity_wolf33 Wrote:  Eventually, there will be enough adults in society that firmly believe that the way society works must change, and that there are better ways to learn than public/private school.

I would argue this is already the case. It's becoming more so every day. I've tried to make that case in various threads here over the past two years, but each week I keep finding more people who concur that "factory-model schooling" doesn't meet the needs of 21st century individual and economies, and that a focus on bubble-fill testing in a few core subjects isn't the solution.

For the most part, people on SS have been too locked in the "things will take generations" mindset to go looking for them. Even with a belief that change can happen sooner rather than later, I've spent a lot of time waiting for it, and not knowing who to connect with.

But it's become much easier over time.

Over the past 18-20 months, I've connected with many adults, including educators and parents who totally agree that things need to change.

Over the past few months, some of us on School Survival have talked to some of those people on hangouts and G+ threads. It's hard to get most to come here.. at least for more than quick visits into particular threads... but they are certainly out there and eager to connect.

I think one key to change is for more people of the School Survival "variety" (varieties?) to learn about those people "out there" and what they're saying.

I started Summer of Connected Learning to help facilitate more of these conversations. If you want to take part, join the community on G+ and/or PM me and/or comment here.

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How Do We Change the School System?

(06-07-2014 05:00 PM)Evan92 Wrote:  I don't believe anyone can make substantiative changes that would result in a complete overhaul.

Question:

Why the focus on the concept of a "complete overhaul?"

Here's my thinking;

School is reasonably tolerable for many students. There are definitely reasons to transform how it's done (and let's discuss that.) But, for "substantive changes," why not specifically address the many students who are utterly unhappy in school-as-usual -- the "cognitive refugees" -- and work to overhaul their situations?

That could also be a way to show the others what other ways of learning are possible.

I think substantive change for specific people and populations is a lot more feasible than a lot of people assume... and it doesn't have to require overhauling the system for everyone else. Assuming the whole system-as-usual has to change in order to change things for School Survival types has long been one of the biggest roadblocks to change, the way I see it.

Meanwhile, lots of people are suffering and wasting their time in stifling school environments... and arguably it's their parents, and lack of viable options, not the system's existence, that are the biggest roadblocks.

Therefore, there's the question of how to dialogue with parents and show them a different way of looking at things, and build options that will appeal to them (as well as those who object to school-as-usual.)

There are lots of families who choose to to take options beyond school-as-usual (one related article, and there are quite a few examples of people building alternatives to school-as-usual that are based on learner interests and needs (many examples, like Dennis Littky's Big Picture Learning, Shawn Cornally's Big Ideas Group, iLearn in Australia, North Star Self-Directed Learning, and many other variants, including what Justin Schwamm is looking to make happen this fall.

At the higher-ed level, there are also many alternatives out there, as people question college-as-usual and its mounting cost.



Watch on YouTube

After all, a big reason people are forced to endure middle and high school is the overarching goal of attending and graduating from college. What happens when that whole chain of assumptions starts being questioned?

(06-07-2014 05:00 PM)Evan92 Wrote:  Small changes can be implemented to make schools more accountable and bearable. First end teacher tenure, easier said than done. Second shorten instructional time putting more emphasis on quality of education rather than quantity. Thirdly if theft or assault occurs on school premises make the schools civilly liable. Remember admin and teachers are acting in loco parentis therefore, they are responsible for all that occurs.

All kinds of small changes can be promoted and implemented. Student Voice is one effort to promote dialogue within schools and seek various kinds of changes.

This could really be a thread in itself, changes within existing schools.

Meanwhile, quite a few new schools and alternatives are happening, and there's the option of doing things outside of the traditional concept of school. Those are rather different discussions than changes within an existing, fixed school.

One recent MOOC on the topic of creating new schools: New School Creation.

(06-07-2014 05:00 PM)Evan92 Wrote:  On a side note I predict that within five years all schools will gravitate towards year round instruction. I am unsure as to whether the teachers unions will support this measure or not. Chances are the teachers will mewl and puke over salaries and various states and provinces will cave in. Year round is a dangerous thing in my books, you hear all the counter arguments "it help with the retention of learning", "you still get the same amount of time off". Anyone with half a brain knows this is the retention theory is bs, I guarantee you they will short vacation periods significantly.

The end goal is being able to hold people long term in these schools to maximize tax money flowing into boards and districts. "asian countries go year round why shouldn't we catch up here in north america". The more people who hold a college degree the less value in the workforce it holds, simple economics. Stagnation of wages leads to desperation, were in for a bumpy ride over the next decade.

I don't think year-round schools will take effect in most cases. Asian countries managing to score high on global standardized tests (PISA) is a topic of discussion, but many people (families, educators, students, and others) are also taking up arms against a focus on testing as the sole focus of education.

See Yong Zhao's talk, Redefining Excellence [20m] on Vimeo for some thoughts on that global perspective.

Questioning some underlying assumptions, like the focus on testing, provides an opening to question all kinds of things about school-as-usual with a sympathetic audience who knows [b]that the world has changed[b] relative to the factory age that schools were built for (examples: more connected, more uncertainty relative to traditional assumptions about credentials and career paths.)

Btw, have you seen Ken Robinson's Changing Education Paradigms? Even that is now almost 4 years old, and a lot has changed over the past couple of years.

If you want to dive deeper, check out the videos and replies on this thread with Ken Robinson's more recent talk:

Ken Robinson: How to escape education's death valley (thread)

As Trar has pointed out, TED talks aren't enough... but they do show some of the story so far.

Thoughts?

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How Do We Change the School System?

(06-08-2014 02:21 AM)DoA Wrote:  I agree - small changes will never result in an overhaul.

That's why our approach has to be a deconstruction of traditional schooling, in two senses: Firstly, we would break down what's wrong with it and show people that there are viable alternatives that are worth taking. Secondly, people, knowing this, would reform and overhaul the system to better suit people's needs, removing the original system in the process.

Many people have already started that deconstruction, and there are all kinds of talks, articles, conversations and courses that are part of that process. Many of those are from the past couple of years.

The of the biggest problems is that people don't have the time or inclination to explore all that, even given a big list. My walls of content are bad enough, it seems, except when a reader is specifically motivated to put in the effort to process them. And... these posts are carefully-selected bits from much wider pools of material.

Here are some examples of some of the pools:

Steve Hargadon's Future of Education interview series:

http://www.futureofeducation.com/

(Over 300 interviews.)

Jonathan Fields' Good Life Project interview series (not directly about education, but education is a theme that comes up, mostly the interviewees citing things other than school as the critical things in their lives)

http://www.goodlifeproject.com/

ConnectedLearning.tv: Numerous hangouts-based webinars and conversations:

http://connectedlearning.tv/

And there's so much more to outline...

Not to mention all of the conversations and hangouts we've had, and continue to have.

So, how do we find the essential bits and get them in formats people will engage with?

(06-08-2014 02:21 AM)DoA Wrote:  I don't think year round instruction is going to happen anytime soon; the entire concept has been in debate for decades and the final verdict is that the summer break is the ideal separation from school due to giving teachers time to plan and students time to release stress. The "learning retention" crowd is thought of as misguided by many people who are otherwise fervently pro-school. I don't think any unions, as a whole, support year round instruction, perhaps because of the detrimental effect it would pose to teachers alone. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, school is all about the status quo, and I don't think bureaucrats would be so quick to brace for a complete schedule overhaul nationwide.

Yeah, it's too entrenched. Meanwhile whole idea of "instruction" as the main point of school is running into a lot of challenges. Bill Ferguson has adopted Sugata Mitra's SOLE (Self-organized learning environment) method for his 5th grade class, for example, with a lot of success. This approach is more based on fostering curiosity and students asking and exploring the answers to questions, and presenting their findings, instead of just "instructing" them in the traditional classroom sense.

Here's a brief explanation of Mitra's story and approach:



Watch on YouTube

(06-08-2014 02:21 AM)DoA Wrote:  I've said this before, but Asian countries are not economically innovative; all they have going for them is the sheer amount of labor. Their education makes it impossible to be a center of good ideas of any kind, and following them would remove the only edge the US has: creativity.

Yeah... I highly recommend everyone watch Yong Zhao's talk that hits on those issues (and which I linked in my last reply here.)

Yong Zhao: Redefining Excellence [20m]

Maybe we could have a discussion hangout about that in particular. Not to mention this thread in general... how about one this evening, US time, and one tomorrow afternoon?

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How Do We Change the School System?

"I've said this before, but Asian countries are not economically innovative; all they have going for them is the sheer amount of labor. Their education makes it impossible to be a center of good ideas of any kind, and following them would remove the only edge the US has: creativity."


I definitely agree with you on that point, the rinse and repeat mentality allows for no innovation or self identity. The best concept of school reform I've personally heard of is a self directed model in the city where I am, one high school has this model. There are instructors onsite to advise students but attendance is not required everyday. Students create learning plans that balance mandated curriculum with personal interests as well. There are seminars instead of classes which students choose to attend and big surprise one of the highest graduation rates in the district.
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How Do We Change the School System?

sadly, i dont think anything would change with simple peaceful protests. if the school system were to be overhauled completely, it would have to be through force.

anytime i see people try to make suggestions that could even possibly improve my school, they are simply brushed off as ignorant teens that dont appreciate the opportunities in school that the previous generations apparently never had.

school has killed all creativity. the best form of education comes through self-discovery, not through a forced process that would make people lose all interest in learning. people naturally have the desire to learn and do not need to be forced to do so.

in the current school system where learning is forced, the desire to learn is lost. if people are given the free will to learn on their own or from parents, the knowledge would come to them much easier than it would in school. learning your native language is an example. its likely that your parents taught you how to read and write. you heard them speak as you were young and you heard others in the world around you. there was no extra stress that came along with that and what happened? you mastered your language effortlessly. it comes naturally.

if people were given the freedom to learn naturally, it is quite possible that everything that you tried to learn would come that easily. there are so many resources that can further your education. from my experience, school isnt one of them.

school simply glorifies whoever conforms to the system the best.
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Post: #44
How Do We Change the School System?

Like pop culture, school is representative of societal beliefs.

Democracy and mass media are bad for our health. Society becomes a playground for those trying to abuse either democracy or mass media(such as big corporations creating cultural changes that would improve their profits. Like real men shave, so everyone go buy razors. Villains only have beards. One must always own the fastest strongest most expensive car. Wanna get married? Go break your bank and empty your wallet on their products cause that's how its supposed to be done. Remember those cigarrette commercials? Look at all those alcohol ads. Want to know what "looking good" means, take a look at our ads,magazines,movies,clothing!)

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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How Do We Change the School System?

Welcome to the forums, FreedSpirits. If you want to introduce yourself with an intro thread, go for it...

Meanwhile, I like what you wrote, though I'm going to argue, as I do in general, that change can come through means other than force. Smile

(06-09-2014 01:21 PM)FreedSpirits Wrote:  school has killed all creativity. the best form of education comes through self-discovery, not through a forced process that would make people lose all interest in learning. people naturally have the desire to learn and do not need to be forced to do so.

in the current school system where learning is forced, the desire to learn is lost. if people are given the free will to learn on their own or from parents, the knowledge would come to them much easier than it would in school. learning your native language is an example. its likely that your parents taught you how to read and write. you heard them speak as you were young and you heard others in the world around you. there was no extra stress that came along with that and what happened? you mastered your language effortlessly. it comes naturally.

if people were given the freedom to learn naturally, it is quite possible that everything that you tried to learn would come that easily. there are so many resources that can further your education. from my experience, school isnt one of them.

school simply glorifies whoever conforms to the system the best.

Exactly! Fortunately, so many people are now seeing this, and the disconnect with the way "20th-century" schools work. And, thanks to recent technology, connectivity, and economic changes, a lot of people are starting to really believe things need to change, for all kinds of reasons.

(06-09-2014 01:21 PM)FreedSpirits Wrote:  sadly, i dont think anything would change with simple peaceful protests. if the school system were to be overhauled completely, it would have to be through force.

anytime i see people try to make suggestions that could even possibly improve my school, they are simply brushed off as ignorant teens that dont appreciate the opportunities in school that the previous generations apparently never had.

That's a common pattern, both in schools and families. So, how might teens not be brushed off like that?

I think that force, and even talk of using force, adds to that "rebellious teens who don't appreciate things" stereotype. I can't think of a single example of force changing anything in education (except making things worse), and the history of such talk on these forums has accomplished nothing in terms of change.

(Plus, I think that force in general is not a good solution in most cases. If we want to take force out of education, using force doesn't sound like the best way to do it.)

So, is there a "third option" beyond just dealing with it, or rebelling?

I think there is.

In general, there are approaches like identifying the underlying interests of counterparties, and working to brainstorm "win-win-win" solutions that benefit everyone.

More specifically, regarding education:

It turns out that those of us who dislike "factory model schools" have rather large numbers of adult allies who do understand. Historically, there have been a few, like John Taylor Gatto, John Holt, and David Gray, who wrote and spoke about questioning school-usual... and a few models of school-alternatives, like Montessori, based on doing things differently.

But more recently, a lot more people have started speaking up about the exact same criticisms of factory-model schools that you outlined, @FreedSpirit.

A short timeline of conversations about change (based on things I've noticed)

Ken Robinson gave his famous first TED talk in 2006 about how Schools Kill Creativity, which became quite popular.

In 2009, a venture capital firm called Union Square Ventures arranged a conversation between a mix of "leading thinkers, educators, and entrepreneurs" (including Ken Robinson) that came to a number of overlapping conclusions about the future of learning: see the summarized list of takeaways at Hacking Education (continued) or explore the links for a full transcript.

In 2010, Ken Robinson gave a second TED talk, Bring on the learning revolution!, and an edited, illustrated RSA Animate talk called Changing Education Paradigms [11m] that many see as a key short summary of the issues in education.

Meanwhile, in 2010, I partnered with a friend to launch an ed-tech startup company, based on the idea of developing web-based personal learning portals. We ended up taking on a project to develop a Student Information System for a newly-launching charter school. That's a long story, and we took on too big of a project for two people... but I learned quite a lot in the process.

One thing I realized is that a lot of educational innovation is actually very similar to the traditional "factory-model" of school than Ken Robinson (and others) have described and most of those on School Survival experience: age-graded, specific-subject classrooms, fixed daily schedules, report cards based on calculated assignments and tests, and a focus on getting students into college (where the next step in education is supposed to occur.)

As 2011 played out, that collaboration ended, and I went on an exhaustive search to figure out answers for what I could do next. I kept finding more and more people who saw the same kinds of problems I saw, both with factory-model K-12 education, and with college.

By mid-2012, I started finally connecting with people who were also questioning school-as-usual, and I continued to find more of them. Since then, I've had a lot of conversations with various people who do "get it," including educators and parents.

Until recently, though, it's been very difficult to bridge the gap between those positive conversations and the relative darkness and despair that has long persisted on School Survival.

It's very hard to facilitate dialogue with allies who want to help, and who actually see teens as having valid perspectives, when the teens themselves are so caught up in the roadblocks within their own situations. It's even harder when those who want to help are also (as teachers in some cases) caught up in earning a salary fulfilling their factory-model job obligations.

Over the past few months, that's changed a lot. Lately, a number of us have had Hangouts (video conferences) that are showing the kind of dialogue and steps toward launching alternatives I've long wanted to see.

The key is to make the most of this potential.

Solutions come in three broad categories:

(1) Find a way to change how your school works (hard, but this may be possible in some cases, with the right external allies and with people in the school open to change. It's more common than it seems, especially in 2014, but it's still a long shot in most schools.)

(2) Find a way to get your family onboard with alternatives. This includes homeschooling/unschooling/connected learning, finding alternative models of schools, and even collaborating on founding a new school alternative in your location.

(Some of us are also working on a model that provides remote coaching/mentoring/guidance/feedback that parents would see as genuine learning, but do it in a totally learner-centric way, based on learner interests and goals.)

(3) Make the most of what you can learn, despite school. This means using your time well, learning on your own, discovering your interests, and learning more about how learning works best. The summer tends to provide an especially good opportunity for this.

I started Summer of Connected Learning to help pull together some of these conversations happening in different places.

For example, I linked this thread there, and that's generated some conversation. Feel free to jump in there if you're on G+ (I could also quote some more followups from here there.)

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06-10-2014 01:52 AM
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RE: How Do We Change the School System?

(06-10-2014 01:52 AM)xcriteria Wrote:  tl;dr: Brainiac is always right. Brainiac is master. Worship the Brain.

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How Do We Change the School System?

My idea that could improve the generic school system, would take a long time, though perhaps it's the most realistic. It would be about building alternative schools, and showing how happy and successful the students are. Though it would take a lot of alternative schools and proof. They should be accessible by most people, reguardless of age and economic status. The only problem with that, is I bet some would be like "What about the grades!?!" and think that passing as much tests as possible is more important. Also, making it viable for poor people. I don't expect alternative schools to be supported by the government.

My alternative school idea sounds similar to some others. Basically, there is no timetable, you have to make a schedule yourself, or you can just explore and learn whatever you like. There's no age segregation, and there would be workshops, and a library with books organised into subjects. Computers would obviously be available too ofc (though I'm leaning towards supervision on that since it's so easy to get distracted and carried away on trivial stuff for too long). There would also be optional seminar-like sessions, and students can rate how good it was (if they're rated too low, then whoever made the lecture gets a word with, and if it's constantly bad, they get kicked out). There would also be student advisors if anyone needs support. I'm not sure about exams.

Somewhat irrevelant, though I think exams needs to be narrowed down into subsets that don't make up the whole grade, so lets say if someone is really good at the practical side of art, but is really bad at the theory side of it, they still pass art, just not the theory side (which isn't needed for their job anyway). This is the only way I can tolerate keeping grades, so people can get down on what they really want/need to know without some uneeded part a subject frustrating them.

I may seem evil at times, though I just want to make a point. I like to create real discussion.
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How Do We Change the School System?

Sounds like a reasonable plan, much like any of ours, but the devil is in the details. Rather, the implementation.

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06-10-2014 05:15 AM
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RE: How Do We Change the School System?

(06-10-2014 05:15 AM)DoA Wrote:  Sounds like a reasonable plan, much like any of ours, but the devil is in the details. Rather, the implementation.

I don't exactly understand what you mean by "but the devil is in the details". Changing people's stuck mentalities is a process by actions which convince them against what they said.

I may seem evil at times, though I just want to make a point. I like to create real discussion.
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06-10-2014 05:28 AM
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How Do We Change the School System?

What I mean to say is, the details/implementation will definitely be more difficult when it comes time for it.

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How Do We Change the School System?

(06-10-2014 05:13 AM)TreyLina Wrote:  My idea that could improve the generic school system, would take a long time, though perhaps it's the most realistic. It would be about building alternative schools, and showing how happy and successful the students are. Though it would take a lot of alternative schools and proof. They should be accessible by most people, reguardless of age and economic status. The only problem with that, is I bet some would be like "What about the grades!?!" and think that passing as much tests as possible is more important. Also, making it viable for poor people. I don't expect alternative schools to be supported by the government.

This is where some of us are talking about building school alternatives. Some people already have school alternatives, and it seems like more educators every day are interested in doing such things.

One question is money. It's easier to not have to depend on government funding, which is generally connected to requirements for testing-based accountability these days. So, Justin Schwamm and others are looking to do self-funding school alternatives, that can still have some paid staff.

The idea is to keep costs down, including by having participants/learners contributing in some ways to help such a learning environment run.

(06-10-2014 05:13 AM)TreyLina Wrote:  My alternative school idea sounds similar to some others. Basically, there is no timetable, you have to make a schedule yourself, or you can just explore and learn whatever you like. There's no age segregation, and there would be workshops, and a library with books organised into subjects. Computers would obviously be available too ofc (though I'm leaning towards supervision on that since it's so easy to get distracted and carried away on trivial stuff for too long). There would also be optional seminar-like sessions, and students can rate how good it was (if they're rated too low, then whoever made the lecture gets a word with, and if it's constantly bad, they get kicked out). There would also be student advisors if anyone needs support. I'm not sure about exams.

Somewhat irrevelant, though I think exams needs to be narrowed down into subsets that don't make up the whole grade, so lets say if someone is really good at the practical side of art, but is really bad at the theory side of it, they still pass art, just not the theory side (which isn't needed for their job anyway). This is the only way I can tolerate keeping grades, so people can get down on what they really want/need to know without some uneeded part a subject frustrating them.

Yeah, that sounds quite similar to what a number of us have been talking about. There was quite a bit of coverage of how to do school different in the New School Creation MOOC, though I want to do even more with that in Summer of Connected Learning.

If you want to join the G+ community, and some of the hangouts we're doing, you're welcome to.

One of the key questions is where to launch these programs. There need to be at least a few families in one place to launch in-person alternatives (which can be done like collaborative unschooling -- if parents are open to it.)

That's where dialogue with parents is critical.

I think the fastest route to model some of these new kinds of learning is to do so online, remotely, but with a role for mentors/coaches/guides to help facilitate conversations and learning. That's a big part of what I want to do and model as Summer of Connected Learning plays out... show what can be done when there isn't the constraint of school taking up people's time.

And, hopefully, this can turn into at least some successes by the end of the summer, where some families have decided to choose new approaches to learning and try them out through the following year.

Here's Justin's concept from a few years back:

Three Column Schools

And here's a site mockup he did for the New School Creation course:

http://jschwamm.wix.com/tcnetwork

We've been discussing what form these ideas can be adapted into...

What do you think?

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06-10-2014 08:40 AM
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RE: How Do We Change the School System?

(11-03-2013 04:30 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  I've recently begun thinking about some sort of website which is a collection of what you describe, xcriteria. A collection of writings, videos, conversations, musings, personal experiences, etc. Basically, a sort of social networking site in which students and also teachers that have rebelled against the system can use to communicate their ideas with each other. One forum that is mostly about venting about school and complaining about the system is not enough, we must create some sort of "network" of sites that talk about changing the system. We need to spread the word if we're going to see more change.

I also agree that the "I can't change the system" kind of thinking needs to die before we can really "get the cannons fired" if you know what I mean. Slaves throughout history thought the same, and so did women throughout history as well. However, there were those that didn't give up and believe they could, not couldn't. We must start thinking the same for student's rights, that we can change it, even if change is slow and gradual.

You know, I've been thinking of this in my book. A book that could be easy to pick up but be a handy resource guide.

Bringing this thread back because it's interesting and pinning.

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04-16-2017 02:44 AM
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RE: How Do We Change the School System?

To hangrose person I think I can't see your name cause I'm on a school iPad and apple sucks,

Bruh ... WRITE NOW YOU TWAT! But seriously, you don't need to be an old fuck to change something. I mean, look at me. I'm a 12 year old, bisexual, 4-eyed, jacket-wearing, cold-all-the-time nerd, and I'm sure as hell I could make a diiference ... maybe
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04-28-2017 11:59 PM
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How Do We Change the School System?

Hey, baby steps man. Can't rush it out.

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04-29-2017 03:29 AM
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How Do We Change the School System?

Guys, what are the pros and cons of voucher system at school? I've heared about it lately, but haven't sort all the info out.
05-25-2017 01:25 AM
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RE: How Do We Change the School System?

money from a public school to a private school. typically the private school must semi-conform to the standards of the public school. (Private schools frequently exclude/include kids on shady grounds)

i say its bullshit on this front: School is mostly a status symbol and vouchers just help the already rich pay less by making tax dollars pay in part for the status symbol they feel they deserve for their kids.

just another way of taxing the poor to help the rich. its like 90% of what the US government does.

When the rich don't want their kids mixing with the commoners they create a private school to turn away such riffraff. then they get sad about having to pay tuition so they complain that tax dollars should go to fund their still-exclusive school.

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05-28-2017 11:57 AM
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How Do We Change the School System?

I think we should also be aware about the type of people buying into our ways of thought because when it comes to having an anti-school mindset, there are two extremes: the intelligent and the lazy. We have people like Neil DeGrasse Tyson voicing their opinions about the school system(along with other intelligent people) yet a vast majority(from my observation) are little idiot school kids who think they are entitled to everything. We need to be careful when advancing our movement as we don't want idiots representing us.
05-31-2017 12:16 AM
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RE: How Do We Change the School System?

the media will decide who represents us. if they want us misrepresented they will choose that person.

its like how Muslims have a lot of renound scholars people really listen to, them news outlets just basically interview whoever, or nobody

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RE: How Do We Change the School System?

(05-31-2017 02:37 AM)the Analogist Wrote:  the media will decide who represents us. if they want us misrepresented they will choose that person.

its like how Muslims have a lot of renound scholars people really listen to, them news outlets just basically interview whoever, or nobody

Good point. I guess there is always struggle when trying to change something. Scratchchin
05-31-2017 02:42 AM
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