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How Do We Change the School System?
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Subb Offline
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Post: #1
How Do We Change the School System?

Everyone, get your thinking caps on. We're gonna brainstorm. We know that our society thinks that our current school system is the best way to educate someone. And that's a long shot to where we want it to be. But how do we get there? Don't think mass change, think baby steps.

So, there's two questons here;

1. What would be the absolute best way to educate someone?
2. How do we get from our system to that system?

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10-31-2013 02:16 PM
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Subb Offline
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Post: #2
RE: How Do We Change the School System?

Here's what I want in a school:
A huge library, filled with books and computers. You go there and just learn about whatever you want using the resources provided. Teachers will be there, but they're more like tutors. They're there when you need help, or to point you in a certain direction if you don't know what to do next. It would have all of the equipment a school would have, in regards to science labs and computers. There would still be a bus system, but you woudn't have to go.

I have no idea how to get to that model, but I really like it.

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10-31-2013 02:29 PM
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Gwedin Offline
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Post: #3
How Do We Change the School System?

A huge study hall actually sounds really awesome. But then for every action there is a reaction. So we would also need to change the qualification system (requirements for university, etc.), not to mention the huge amount of resources that would need to be invested. I'm sure someone could elaborate a bit more on the requirements for such a project. Then there's also the need for a convincing story to make the higher ups agree that this would be more beneficial for our children. And we all know that convincing them would be bloody difficult due to their 1. egos 2. laziness. But I really do like the idea. Smile
10-31-2013 03:15 PM
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Post: #4
How Do We Change the School System?

Kittens. Wink Since my father is allergic to them, it'll keep him out long enough that we can have free thinking and debate.

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Post: #5
How Do We Change the School System?

I would like a freely run room with free shelves of books and knowledge. No homework, the only stuff you'll be copying down are notes from stuff you actually find interesting, and that's not forced on you. I say to hell with fixed schedules, they only cause more problems.

And of course, the compulsory part must die.

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RE: How Do We Change the School System?

A smoldering crater.

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
10-31-2013 08:20 PM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: How Do We Change the School System?

Some bombs, a lot of minions, ability to supress your consience and time. You can even rewrite history!

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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Post: #8
How Do We Change the School System?

Or maybe some kind of intricately woven October Revolution, just for the sake of placing equal control, and working out a solution from there. Start with the takeover plans, and then once those are used, then allow for a new kind of school building to commence.

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Marauder Offline
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Post: #9
RE: How Do We Change the School System?

(10-31-2013 02:16 PM)SubCulture Wrote:  Everyone, get your thinking caps on. We're gonna brainstorm. We know that our society thinks that our current school system is the best way to educate someone. And that's a long shot to where we want it to be. But how do we get there? Don't think mass change, think baby steps.

So, there's two questons here;

1. What would be the absolute best way to educate someone?
2. How do we get from our system to that system?

That would be just perfect.

"There is nothing on earth intended for innocent people so horrible as a school"
- George Bernard Shaw

Lux Wrote:
"School ruins families. Most of the verbal and physical punishments kids endure are because of grades. I would have a much better relationship with my parents if the school didn't harass us years ago."
11-01-2013 03:37 AM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #10
How Do We Change the School System?

Like this. Watch closely.

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11-01-2013 06:29 AM
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Post: #11
How Do We Change the School System?

One thing I believe that needs to be abolished in the education system are schedules. Both yearly and hourly. We are so used to schedules and different classes, but this is part of the trap. This is what makes the school system so tedious: the often unfair hours to wake up and enter and the tortuously long years. Why does school need to be taught in the fall and winter? Why do we need to enter by 8AM? How about no schedules?

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RE: How Do We Change the School System?

(11-01-2013 06:29 AM)DoA Wrote:  Like this. Watch closely.

I've been staring at your post for hours...and nothing has happened yet.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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danielleib Offline
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Post: #13
How Do We Change the School System?

smaller study groups with teachers whenever the teacher is a available and the student wants tutoring they will organise a study group and get in depth and make learning easier also to make it more student apealing every student has to get something to contribute to the subject the group is learning ex:student gets an awesome funny and educative video about atom structure,etc. the school will offer it as a "sub" course to what ever course the student is learning for free!
11-01-2013 08:48 PM
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Christian Hellhound Offline
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Post: #14
RE: How Do We Change the School System?

(10-31-2013 03:37 PM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  I would like a freely run room with free shelves of books and knowledge. No homework, the only stuff you'll be copying down are notes from stuff you actually find interesting, and that's not forced on you. I say to hell with fixed schedules, they only cause more problems.

And of course, the compulsory part must die.

Ohmigawd yes.

"No matter what I do, it'll probably forever remain a pipe dream that will never come true,
but the fire burning in my heart cannot be doused by anyone.
Even if the black rain falling from the sky drenches me completely and doesn't stop,
I will never allow the fire in my heart to be extinguished. That, is my 'pride'."
- Core Pride
11-01-2013 09:50 PM
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Ky Offline
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RE: How Do We Change the School System?

(11-01-2013 12:24 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  
(11-01-2013 06:29 AM)DoA Wrote:  Like this. Watch closely.

I've been staring at your post for hours...and nothing has happened yet.

How to keep a brainiac occupied for hours.

Public Service Announcement: First world problems are still problems.
11-02-2013 12:05 AM
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Subb Offline
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Post: #16
RE: How Do We Change the School System?

(10-31-2013 03:15 PM)Gwedin Wrote:  A huge study hall actually sounds really awesome. But then for every action there is a reaction. So we would also need to change the qualification system (requirements for university, etc.), not to mention the huge amount of resources that would need to be invested. I'm sure someone could elaborate a bit more on the requirements for such a project. Then there's also the need for a convincing story to make the higher ups agree that this would be more beneficial for our children. And we all know that convincing them would be bloody difficult due to their 1. egos 2. laziness. But I really do like the idea. Smile

I think a good qualification system would be like an audition. You go up to some representatives of the university, and you show them what you can do. Do a scene for a performing arts school, demonstrate your developments in quantum mechanics if it's a for science, do one of those really hard equations that take up the whole board in mathematics. That way, you show your potential.

We already have the resources. The funding and equipment in schools, and libraries. They would still be libraries, but they would be full of kids for 7 hours. The only stuff we need to invest in is library renovations, and moving the equipment. Which is still a pretty penny, but less than getting all the materials and building them.

There is still a schedule, because you have to enter and leave at certain times. This isn't to imprison the students, it's for convenience sake. So that we can have buses to pick up and drop off the students if they can't drive. If you have a car, you can come as you please.

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Post: #17
How Do We Change the School System?

Quote:There is still a schedule, because you have to enter and leave at certain times. This isn't to imprison the students, it's for convenience sake. So that we can have buses to pick up and drop off the students if they can't drive. If you have a car, you can come as you please.

Of course if you're a masochist nut like me, you'd just walk there.

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Post: #18
How Do We Change the School System?

Quote:Or maybe some kind of intricately woven October Revolution, just for the sake of placing equal control, and working out a solution from there. Start with the takeover plans, and then once those are used, then allow for a new kind of school building to commence.

I'm sorry for the rather poor quality of my posts lately, but I'm busy planning after some VERY good news. Details will be posted later, when they can be confirmed.

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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #19
RE: How Do We Change the School System?

(11-02-2013 12:05 AM)DoA Wrote:  
(11-01-2013 12:24 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  
(11-01-2013 06:29 AM)DoA Wrote:  Like this. Watch closely.

I've been staring at your post for hours...and nothing has happened yet.

How to keep a brainiac occupied for hours.

I am always occupied. Thanks to my multitasking abilities, maintaining observation of your post only reduces my sensory effectiveness by .31%

In my opinion, the system only really works at a graduates level(master-PhD). Everything beneath that can be self-taught at a faster pace without the waste. Also why that level possesses a very different system(especially the part about being able to get a masters simply through experience without needing to go through undergraduate). And not to mention not spending time on irrelevant topics.

Well, that's for the US. I think some other nations simply do have a better system(some aspects when compared to the US) that make the entire education system actually educational, rather than some form of babysitting you till you become what they consider a "fully matured adult citizen".

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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Subb Offline
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Post: #20
RE: How Do We Change the School System?

I have an idea on how to change it. Or how to start to change it.

We need two groups of people. One group goes through the system, and then gets inside it. They become teachers, principals, administrators, etc. They work to reform it as much as they can.

The second group goes out of the system by dropping out, and them makes a good life for themselves. These people are living examples to show that one can be good without school.

This way, we're both changing society's view on school, and school itself.

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Post: #21
How Do We Change the School System?

It's one thing to propose ideas, but it's another to put them in action. Let's fact it: a lot of us don't have much money in order to start these private schools which work completely differently compared to mainstream schooling. However, I think with the power of media it shouldn't be hard to spread ideas. We need to organize somehow. I know I'll be writing various books once I grow older on this.

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Post: #22
RE: How Do We Change the School System?

(11-02-2013 07:55 AM)SubCulture Wrote:  I have an idea on how to change it. Or how to start to change it.

We need two groups of people. One group goes through the system, and then gets inside it. They become teachers, principals, administrators, etc. They work to reform it as much as they can.

The second group goes out of the system by dropping out, and them makes a good life for themselves. These people are living examples to show that one can be good without school.

This way, we're both changing society's view on school, and school itself.

Okay! Who volunteers for the "fix it from the inside" group?

(crickets)

Aside from that tiny hole, it's an excellent plan.

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
11-02-2013 12:31 PM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #23
How Do We Change the School System?

Group two would probably be me.

I've decided to just ditch this whole education route, and start a business. This way, I'll be a business leader while my peers work towards their bachelors.

Then after 4 years, I'll have a growing company and leading the way into a new industry while they bust their asses looking for a job.(Or spend more years getting a higher education degree) Biggrin

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Post: #24
RE: How Do We Change the School System?

(11-02-2013 12:31 PM)planetfall666 Wrote:  
(11-02-2013 07:55 AM)SubCulture Wrote:  I have an idea on how to change it. Or how to start to change it.

We need two groups of people. One group goes through the system, and then gets inside it. They become teachers, principals, administrators, etc. They work to reform it as much as they can.

The second group goes out of the system by dropping out, and them makes a good life for themselves. These people are living examples to show that one can be good without school.

This way, we're both changing society's view on school, and school itself.

Okay! Who volunteers for the "fix it from the inside" group?

(crickets)

Aside from that tiny hole, it's an excellent plan.

I volunteer for the inside group. I'm planning on becoming a teacher.

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11-02-2013 03:06 PM
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Post: #25
How Do We Change the School System?

Maybe perhaps I could become a substitute teacher. To hell with the assignments, I'll just put the film "War on Kids" instead of making them do their work. Much more worthy of their time than doing some stupid mundane assignment that will have no meaning in the future.

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Post: #26
RE: How Do We Change the School System?

(11-02-2013 03:06 PM)SubCulture Wrote:  
(11-02-2013 12:31 PM)planetfall666 Wrote:  
(11-02-2013 07:55 AM)SubCulture Wrote:  I have an idea on how to change it. Or how to start to change it.

We need two groups of people. One group goes through the system, and then gets inside it. They become teachers, principals, administrators, etc. They work to reform it as much as they can.

The second group goes out of the system by dropping out, and them makes a good life for themselves. These people are living examples to show that one can be good without school.

This way, we're both changing society's view on school, and school itself.

Okay! Who volunteers for the "fix it from the inside" group?

(crickets)

Aside from that tiny hole, it's an excellent plan.

I volunteer for the inside group. I'm planning on becoming a teacher.

Oh, well, in that case, I'm sorry and best of luck!

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
11-03-2013 12:01 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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Post: #27
RE: How Do We Change the School System?

I like this thread. I'm thinking of how to respond.

One thing to realize (and explore) is how much change is already going on within the system, as well as outside it. It's just in quite small pockets. How much change is possible in a given school depends in large part on the people in the school and the district, and what they're open to trying.

That's one reason that helping more people become aware of what others are doing is important. Too many people are caught up in "the system runs everything, and there's nothing I can do" thinking, when it's really mindsets of networks of people that I see as the main blocking factor to change.

Beyond that, the biggest blocking factors are (1) school schedules, where teachers are paid per subject-bound class, rather than having flexibility to negotiate other ways of working with learners (as coaches, mentors, blending subjects, facilitating projects, etc.)

(2) The major role subject-bound grades play in how parents, teachers, and students alike think about "progress." ("Report card," a.k.a., "progress report.")

If you want to follow what's going on in the world of teachers "in the system" who are looking to change things, Justin Schwamm is one teacher to follow. I've been trying to figure out how best to bridge what he talks about (as well as other educators), with the conversations here.

As an example, here's one of his lines on grades: I'm now pondering "flipping the message" – what that would look like in a world where conversations about grades desperately need to happen, but no one wants to start them

...part of a much longer blog post-driven conversation (Seeing the Connections, Oct. 14, 2013), that's part of a much longer series of conversations relevant to all of us who are looking to do things differently.

How can these conversations be bridged? It's hard to pull people into School Survival, and it seems hard to intro people to all these G+ conversations I've found... even though I've posted various times on both ends, linking back and forth.

Regarding publishing books, I think the answer is to put something together that involves a collection of writings, videos, and conversations... bridging different roles and perspectives, and hitting on some of these core archaic practices, and what can be done instead.

Thoughts?

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11-03-2013 03:43 AM
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Post: #28
How Do We Change the School System?

I've recently begun thinking about some sort of website which is a collection of what you describe, xcriteria. A collection of writings, videos, conversations, musings, personal experiences, etc. Basically, a sort of social networking site in which students and also teachers that have rebelled against the system can use to communicate their ideas with each other. One forum that is mostly about venting about school and complaining about the system is not enough, we must create some sort of "network" of sites that talk about changing the system. We need to spread the word if we're going to see more change.

I also agree that the "I can't change the system" kind of thinking needs to die before we can really "get the cannons fired" if you know what I mean. Slaves throughout history thought the same, and so did women throughout history as well. However, there were those that didn't give up and believe they could, not couldn't. We must start thinking the same for student's rights, that we can change it, even if change is slow and gradual.

RIP GWEDIN
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RIP WES/THEWAKE
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11-03-2013 04:30 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #29
How Do We Change the School System?

What if the firing the cannons eliminates the system, thus making the "I can't change the system" thought become irrelevant as there is no longer a system to change in place?

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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11-03-2013 05:05 AM
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Post: #30
How Do We Change the School System?

What I meant by that, more or less, was that the thought of powerlessness needs to be eliminated in a significant amount of people before a true revolution can start. Many students are brainwashed to think that school and homework is good for them and all the policing at schools is necessary, and that there's no need to change the system. Or sometimes students do hate the system, but they don't know what to do, and therefore don't know how to start a rebellion of some sort.

Most teenagers believe that school is simply a part of growing up. Most teenagers believe that in order to achieve a good life, school is there. If you fail school, you're dumb. It's the same brainwash that's handed down from generation to generation, all passing down the idea that the schooling system is for pure good, when in reality (and especially since the 1990s) it has been more about control. There can't be a revolution until people know that they are human and their rights.

On the main page there is an article describing how cults and school are similar, but a tactic that school uses in order to suppress a revolution is not only what was similar to cults, but also similar to suppress slaves, women, and laborers as well. Slaves, women, and laborers were dehumanized so badly that many of them felt it was justified. They didn't know a life outside the system. School uses similar tactics, which is very disturbing. Dehumanization includes punishment, labels, etc. It's very subtle to the non-rebellious student, but the rebellious eye can see it much more clearly.

RIP GWEDIN
RIP URITIYOGI
RIP NIGHT
RIP VONUNOV
RIP WES/THEWAKE
RIP USERNAME

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Stop jerking off to porn and whining and do something about it

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11-03-2013 05:55 AM
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