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Would You Want Your Child In This Exquisitely-Managed Classroom?
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xcriteria Offline
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Would You Want Your Child In This Exquisitely-Managed Classroom?

Here's a topic for discussion. It'll take some time investment to really dig into the issues here, but this is a step toward participating in the future of education.

First, read this (short) article... and consider the questions it poses:

Would You Want Your Child In This Exquisitely-Managed Classroom?

Next, watch the video of day #1 of this 9th-grade English class. If you want to participate in a project I have in mind, focus, reflect, and take notes with the above article's questions in mind.



Watch on YouTube

How is this similar or different, better or worse than your experience with classes?

If you could script out an entire class, or set of them, where the goals were to get people to learn, write, think, and learn about each other (and the teacher), how would you do it?

If we can answer these questions, it'll pave the way to students designing their learning paths. Increasingly, classes are being recorded and studied for better ways to do school (a trend promoted by Bill Gates and Gates Foundation.)

(For follow-up discussion from G+, check out this thread from Laura Gibbs' share of the article.)

Peter Gray & allies launching the Alliance for Self-directed Education

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(This post was last modified: 10-20-2013 05:23 AM by xcriteria.)
10-20-2013 05:23 AM
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UnschoolShqiponjë Offline
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RE: Would You Want Your Child In This Exquisitely-Managed Classroom?

Fuck I would hang myself. Not fucking natural. Frankly it disgusts me hahaha

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(This post was last modified: 10-20-2013 03:55 PM by UnschoolShqiponjë.)
10-20-2013 03:55 PM
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Night Offline
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RE: Would You Want Your Child In This Exquisitely-Managed Classroom?

This is hard. This depends completely on the student. I can definitely see how some students can benefit from this.

particularly me.

Now.. I have pretty bad anxiety. And when I walk into a classroom and I'm given what most people would consider the right amount of freedom I freak out, shut down and I'm just.. skfnajkasdh.

Yeah he seems like a bit of a control freak. But I need that. I need to be told what seat to sit in so that I don't have a mini panic attack (I'm serious about that).
And the whole silent thing. I hate talking. Hate it hate it hate it. I hate working and hearing talking. I just can't do it. So for me that's good.
And he tells you exactly what to do the whole passing the papers thing which i'm sure most of you are going to freak the fuck over about. Yeah, that would be great for me. He's not just saying "pass it to the person to your left" and then you do. That's to simple for me. I need explicit step 1 step 2 step 3. "pass it to the person on your left" would give me another mini panic attack.

And my favorite thing he did, was he didn't call out someone in front of everyone. I hate that. I hate being called out in front of everyone and having everyone looking at me and shit.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is it depends. Certain students, this would be detrimental to them. Other students like me, this would be almost a dream for me.

And I'm watching day 2 by the way. A something he does in day 2 is when he asks for people to read aloud he explicitly says he is not ok with people laughing if someone makes a mistake reading. And he's actually got a bit of a sense of humor.

I'm a girl ffffeck
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10-20-2013 10:00 PM
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xcriteria Offline
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RE: Would You Want Your Child In This Exquisitely-Managed Classroom?

(10-20-2013 10:00 PM)Night Wrote:  Basically, what I'm trying to say is it depends. Certain students, this would be detrimental to them. Other students like me, this would be almost a dream for me.

Yeah, I totally agree. I'm kind of fascinated by the approach, even though a number of elements freak me out.

If this approach is considered as a performance, or a kind of game, it makes more sense. He's intentionally playing a character... or at least, he's intentionally doing a bunch of things that add up to a sort of designed experience. In contrast, a lot of school isn't really all that well designed, period.

The disturbing part of all this, to me, and I think to a lot of people, is how much explicit manipulation is going on. In the wrong hands, these techniques make me think of what this would look like in a villain lair.

I like how he talked about his background, and explained how he wanted to help people develop their brains, and meant it. But, that's where, if I was writing this as a scene in a film, I'd have a student give their own speech, at least at some point. (Maybe in the speech class he mentioned his students could share a binder for.)

I really didn't like the way he said "I'm better than you" and rubbed it in. That's totally counter to what I believe in.

I do understand why he did that... it's part of his overall effort to establish dominance. But they add to the creepiness, especially when you imagine an entire high school experience designed around these methods.. with no choice... and the constant indoctrination of "you need to finish 4 years of this, then go to college, where you'll finally sort out your future."

Basically, students should have a choice of teaching styles, and experience a variety of them. In order for that to be possible, students need to study the art of teaching enough to know what they might like or dislike.

Peter Gray & allies launching the Alliance for Self-directed Education

ASDE Newsletters: #1 Announcement | #2 History of ASDE | #6 Education Liberation


School Survival & Catalyst Learning Network featured on AlternativestoSchool's blog
“Mom, Dad, can I stop going to school?”

Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking when the Stakes are High

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10-21-2013 08:16 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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RE: Would You Want Your Child In This Exquisitely-Managed Classroom?

(10-20-2013 03:55 PM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  Fuck I would hang myself. Not fucking natural. Frankly it disgusts me hahaha

Quite a few people seem to react that way. I see why.

There are more comments on Laura Gibbs' thread I linked above along the "this is creepy" lines. She wrote, "Is there a window in the room? I would have thought a lot about jumping out of the window. Not that I would have jumped. But I would have thought about it A LOT."
10-21-2013 08:20 AM
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UnschoolShqiponjë Offline
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RE: Would You Want Your Child In This Exquisitely-Managed Classroom?

The thing is it ignore how humans (well most healthy ones) learn and take in information. If a kid prefers this environment then that's perfectly fine. Fact is you need to look at it through the lenses of the current situation. They are forced to be there. No choice. It isn't a healthy learning environment if you want critical thinkers who are independent.

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10-21-2013 09:29 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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RE: Would You Want Your Child In This Exquisitely-Managed Classroom?

(10-21-2013 09:29 AM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  The thing is it ignore how humans (well most healthy ones) learn and take in information. If a kid prefers this environment then that's perfectly fine. Fact is you need to look at it through the lenses of the current situation. They are forced to be there. No choice. It isn't a healthy learning environment if you want critical thinkers who are independent.

Exactly. That's the fundamental problem.

In that case, it's a charter school, so it's possible the students elected to be there over another school:

LPS-Richmond Aims High
"Our mission is to send 100% of our students to college, so our students have a place to go that can help them get on their way."

(There's an interview with the teacher at that link.)

Part of the issue is, the narrative that gets sold: "go through this process, and your life will be better." (And the implication is, if you don't, your life will be much worse.)

And, as the article states, "Many of the students would be the first in their families to achieve a higher education."

So, it raises a question... is college the ticket for help to get on your way?

For some, it is... by why can't that help be provided sooner in life? And, does college provide it, with sky-high non-completion rates?

(brainiac's thread, Gen-ed, College And Me, is just one example of going through that "here's how you do it" path, and running into more questions than answers.)
10-21-2013 10:18 AM
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UnschoolShqiponjë Offline
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RE: Would You Want Your Child In This Exquisitely-Managed Classroom?

We have to also ask what kind of people this "training" tends to create. What attitude does it foster? It is fairly obvious I don't think I need to explain it.

As you said... Question college as well. I feel it is now a huge money maker, no longer truly about higher education. Many degrees simply require on the job training. All degrees could be obtained with less required courses. Why am I forced to take biology for child psychology? I really will never need to know the power house of a cell.

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(This post was last modified: 10-21-2013 12:25 PM by UnschoolShqiponjë.)
10-21-2013 12:25 PM
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no Offline
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RE: Would You Want Your Child In This Exquisitely-Managed Classroom?

(10-21-2013 12:25 PM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  Why am I forced to take biology for child psychology?

To understand how the brain works?

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
(This post was last modified: 10-21-2013 01:16 PM by no.)
10-21-2013 01:16 PM
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UnschoolShqiponjë Offline
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RE: Would You Want Your Child In This Exquisitely-Managed Classroom?

(10-21-2013 01:16 PM)planetfall666 Wrote:  
(10-21-2013 12:25 PM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  Why am I forced to take biology for child psychology?

To understand how the brain works?

That is part of the psychology of learning courses and not even covered in biology lol stupid right?

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10-21-2013 01:33 PM
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xcriteria Offline
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RE: Would You Want Your Child In This Exquisitely-Managed Classroom?

(10-21-2013 12:25 PM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  We have to also ask what kind of people this "training" tends to create. What attitude does it foster? It is fairly obvious I don't think I need to explain it.

Exactly. I can see a role for specific sessions of "training" -- which help people to get better at specific motor scripts or performances. But there needs to be some unstructured time, and some opportunity for play, exploration, and personal interest pursuit as well.

Also, people should have some significant amount of time where they get to choose who they're interacting with.

(10-21-2013 12:25 PM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  As you said... Question college as well. I feel it is now a huge money maker, no longer truly about higher education. Many degrees simply require on the job training. All degrees could be obtained with less required courses.

It's a money maker that's leaving colleges broke. For-profit colleges are a different animal, but the whole thing is a very inefficient use of time and resources, by and large. Students learn to play the game of performing as needed for the grade, and in the meantime, time that could be used for other things flies by.

(10-21-2013 12:25 PM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  Why am I forced to take biology for child psychology? I really will never need to know the power house of a cell.

I think biology, along with neuroscience, are worth learning. However, there's a whole lot more to learning than just memorizing some terms. Those "why do we have to learn this?" questions often expose a major flaw in how the whole process works.
10-21-2013 01:41 PM
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magikarp Offline
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RE: Would You Want Your Child In This Exquisitely-Managed Classroom?

What is with high school teachers and the constantly switching tasks thing?

"Do we treat straight public sex differently than we do gay public sex? Of course. Straight people are so proud of their public sex that they named a cocktail after it."
10-24-2013 12:28 PM
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