So I tried to change my situation at school...

[Unknown-Creation]

For a little background information, check out this thread: http://forums.school-survival.net/showth...?tid=28726

The most relevant part of that thread will be quoted below:

(04-02-2013 11:37 AM)Unknown-Creation Wrote:  ...I'll end up showing up for those tests. The attendance principal said they might consider appealing withdrawal if I do well on those tests. Even if they end up wanting me back, I'm not going to consider going back there unless a compromise can be made: allow me to drop all of my classes, minus choir, and allow me independent study time in place of the dropped classes. I've had enough of the bullshit. The chances of this proposal being allowed are probably slim, but hey, if they don't take it, I won't go back.

The attendance principal didn't appeal my withdrawal, but that is not the point. What matters here is the compromise.

I did end up going back to the same school that I was withdrawn from. The head principal had a stern talk with me, and made me sign a contract with them stating that I would show up to class and work with my school counselor. It's bullshit, but anyway...

On that contract, I was told to write down three things. I can only remember the two most relevant parts that I wrote down which are 1.) to work with the counselor(s), admins, etc. and 2.) "to make the most of my school year". When I wrote down that second statement, I thought of proposing that compromise as a first step to doing this, with number 1 being linked into number 2. What I ended up doing was to write a short, sweet, and to-the-point letter to hand to someone at the school, who could then pass it on to someone who could deal with this sort of thing.

So, I wrote this letter up a few days before school started, and handed it to an administrator during lunch on the first day. This letter ended up going to the principal, who then handed this letter to the same asshole of a counselor I had last year; the same counselor that told my mother that homeschooling was complete and utter bullshit. I receive an email from this guy telling me to speak to him about it.

To make a long story short, he told me the, "I used to be just like you," story, along with the, "You shouldn't bother fighting the system," line. I ask him, "So, what is school really about? Churning out people with diplomas, or is it actually about learning? What is its number 1 priority?"

I was told that due to budget cuts (my district was hit pretty hard with them), the amount of people the school can cater to is narrowed. According to him, the school now only really caters to the average student and special-needs students. Anything outside of that is generally unsupported. It apparently doesn't matter if the school teachers (or anyone else, really) don't really have to do anything other than fork over a small slice of electricity, internet bandwidth, and the permission to do as I please with the tools I have. They don't have to provide tools in my specific case.

Anyway, this guy finishes up by saying, "Unknown-Creation, you are essentially a circus dog. You'll have to jump through the hoops to give a good impression. Now be a good little circus dog and go." Despite being upset by this, I will not stop doing what I love to do. I will continue to learn about a multitude of things, and I will continue to have something to look forward to everyday, despite the hell I endure at school.

[brainiac3397]

Tell the counselor to find a new job because he sucks the current job.

Your school is on PCP obviously. They are so very out there...
Maybe the only counseling you should be looking for is legal counseling, see if theres something in the books to smack the school in the face with. If nothing you could at least make a case to why this school will not benefit your educational welfare accompanied by a bunch of evidence.

[Unknown-Creation]

(09-04-2013 03:24 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Tell the counselor to find a new job because he sucks the current job.

Your school is on PCP obviously. They are so very out there...
Maybe the only counseling you should be looking for is legal counseling, see if theres something in the books to smack the school in the face with. If nothing you could at least make a case to why this school will not benefit your educational welfare accompanied by a bunch of evidence.

I never go to this guy for emotional needs, or pretty much anything. I've been burned by him in the past. I would rather talk with the big-shot principal, but he simply had to redirect my request to that counselor.

As for making a case with evidence supporting my claims, I can certainly try doing that once again. I'll see if I can sprinkle any legalese into the mix, too. I've tried negotiating the idea with my school counselor numerous times, and even went to a few other ones, but I'm just going to have to keep speaking up until someone decides to listen. That, or I could simply stop it. Depends on how far I'd like to go. I try not to give a fuck over in the robot factory these days.

[xcriteria]

Are you interested in digging a little deeper, and sharing your story with a broader audience?

I'm working on a few proposals to run live, interactive online brainstorming sessions relating to the problems of "cognitive refugees," a.k.a. people whose learning needs are unsupported by school. Over the past months I've finally started to make inroads with people who can help draw attention to these problems.

Your request sounds perfectly reasonable to me, as does your question: what's this really about, learning, or churning out people with diplomas (and/or dropouts?)

This is the question that needs to have light shed on it. They're operating based on an outdated conception of what "education" is. You can see from the way your situation is being handled, that there's not one big ominous force dictating how things have to be done. Individual people, trying to deal with the situation in front of them, handle it based on how they've learned to, or how they decide to handle it.

Take a look at that reasoning: "budget cuts..." okay... "we don't need to help you..." okay... but why not? Is it really a cost thing? It doesn't sound like it.

One approach is to ask your counselor about that backstory... "I used to be just like you..." ask him, sincerely, to tell you all about it, and see where that leads. That could make for a learning experience you don't normally find in school, where everyone typically hides behind their roles.

It's worth noting that a lot of people are changing how they think about education, and openly discussion what's wrong with the 19th and 20th-century "factory model" of school in the modern world. There are many passionate talks by people, including educators, who see the need to change, improve, and re-imagine how education works. There are books and articles that advocate learner-centric education. Technology makes this easier than ever before to facilitate, and it's time for schools to adapt.

"This is my country's future, and my education" -- Jeff Bliss

Learning needs to be a core part of education, not an afterthought. Students who want to take initiative to propose and come up with alternatives, should be given some flexibility to innovate. Why not?

[Unknown-Creation]

(09-04-2013 04:13 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  Are you interested in digging a little deeper, and sharing your story with a broader audience?

I'm working on a few proposals to run live, interactive online brainstorming sessions relating to the problems of "cognitive refugees," a.k.a. people whose learning needs are unsupported by school. Over the past months I've finally started to make inroads with people who can help draw attention to these problems.

Sure, I'm interested! I don't mind sharing my story with more people.


*More quoting below. Quote is hidden to save space.*

Hidden stuff:

(09-04-2013 04:13 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  Your request sounds perfectly reasonable to me, as does your question: what's this really about, learning, or churning out people with diplomas (and/or dropouts?)

This is the question that needs to have light shed on it. They're operating based on an outdated conception of what "education" is. You can see from the way your situation is being handled, that there's not one big ominous force dictating how things have to be done. Individual people, trying to deal with the situation in front of them, handle it based on how they've learned to, or how they decide to handle it.

Take a look at that reasoning: "budget cuts..." okay... "we don't need to help you..." okay... but why not? Is it really a cost thing? It doesn't sound like it.

One approach is to ask your counselor about that backstory... "I used to be just like you..." ask him, sincerely, to tell you all about it, and see where that leads. That could make for a learning experience you don't normally find in school, where everyone typically hides behind their roles.

It's worth noting that a lot of people are changing how they think about education, and openly discussion what's wrong with the 19th and 20th-century "factory model" of school in the modern world. There are many passionate talks by people, including educators, who see the need to change, improve, and re-imagine how education works. There are books and articles that advocate learner-centric education. Technology makes this easier than ever before to facilitate, and it's time for schools to adapt.

"This is my country's future, and my education" -- Jeff Bliss

Learning needs to be a core part of education, not an afterthought. Students who want to take initiative to propose and come up with alternatives, should be given some flexibility to innovate. Why not?

xcriteria, you made some very good points in your post.

My counselor has told me his backstory before. I refrained from mentioning it in my first post. Here's the gist of it: he has lost someone near and dear to him at an early, but not too early, age; similar to what I've gone through, baring a few differences. He never went through the grieving stage until the age of 25. He told me that he had similar thoughts on school that most of us here on SS share. Then he tells me that he simply got over it at one point and decided to jump through these hoops.

Anyway, this guy's reasoning to not even consider my proposal is lacking. He pulls a red herring and doesn't really go to the heart of the reason why he says, "We don't need to help you."

And yes, it is well beyond time for the school system to adapt. It definitely won't be relevant within the near future if it stays within its old ways. The system needs to focus on the individual and be more flexible, and needs to focus less on GPAs, standardized tests, forced memorization, and churning out diplomas.

Technology is beginning to be implemented at my school, especially with the bring-your-own-device initiative, but it is only being used in ways that mirror factory model schooling. There is so much more that can be done with technology than merely mirroring the outdated paradigm.

[xcriteria]

(09-05-2013 02:47 PM)Unknown-Creation Wrote:  My counselor has told me his backstory before. I refrained from mentioning it in my first post. Here's the gist of it: he has lost someone near and dear to him at an early, but not too early, age; similar to what I've gone through, baring a few differences. He never went through the grieving stage until the age of 25. He told me that he had similar thoughts on school that most of us here on SS share. Then he tells me that he simply got over it at one point and decided to jump through these hoops.

I see. Well, a lot of people don't "just get over" questioning school... especially when more people are questioning the factory model than ever. More people are sharing their stories than ever (TED talks and otherwise.) So, there are lots more narratives to explore than the one he's trying to sell. And that doesn't include creating a new one.

(09-05-2013 02:47 PM)Unknown-Creation Wrote:  Anyway, this guy's reasoning to not even consider my proposal is lacking. He pulls a red herring and doesn't really go to the heart of the reason why he says, "We don't need to help you."

Exactly. And, what worked for your counselor, and led to this current point in life, might not be what would work best for you. But, how do you prove otherwise? And how do you persuade him (or them) to adapt to your needs and preferences?

From your reply to brainiac...

(09-04-2013 03:40 PM)Unknown-Creation Wrote:  As for making a case with evidence supporting my claims, I can certainly try doing that once again. I'll see if I can sprinkle any legalese into the mix, too. I've tried negotiating the idea with my school counselor numerous times, and even went to a few other ones, but I'm just going to have to keep speaking up until someone decides to listen. That, or I could simply stop it. Depends on how far I'd like to go.

Maybe it would help to bring in some outside perspectives. Some legalese might help, as well. What are your options if you withdraw from this school? Homeschooling? GED?

If you stay in school, what are they asking you to do? For example, do you have a schedule of classes, but you're just refusing to go?

What if you proposed taking some online college courses, and/or work with mentors to get feedback on whatever you want to learn from outside of the school... and then show that feedback to your counselor or principal?

Sites like Accredible and Degreed make it possible to track learning from a range of sources, and even show that learning to future employers or clients. This is one of the trends toward providing an alternative to the traditional college degree. These sites might also work to document your independent or out-of-school learning.

(09-05-2013 02:47 PM)Unknown-Creation Wrote:  And yes, it is well beyond time for the school system to adapt. It definitely won't be relevant within the near future if it stays within its old ways. The system needs to focus on the individual and be more flexible, and needs to focus less on GPAs, standardized tests, forced memorization, and churning out diplomas.

Technology is beginning to be implemented at my school, especially with the bring-your-own-device initiative, but it is only being used in ways that mirror factory model schooling. There is so much more that can be done with technology than merely mirroring the outdated paradigm.

That about sums it up. What if you proposed to help your school research their options, and implement something that better meets the needs of the other students? Some schools already do things differently, and a lot of educators are writing, blogging, and speaking about new uses of technology, as well as ways to adapt learning to what students want to learn.

Some schools are becoming much more adaptive to learner needs. That's especially easy with all the online content like Khan Academy, and free Massively Open Online Course (MOOC) providers like Coursera, edX, Udacity and others.)

So, what interests would you like to pursue? What skills and knowledge would you like to learn? And... what kinds of work do you see yourself doing in the future?

Education should find a way to help all students -- or at least the ones that go to the trouble to ask -- take their own steps into all that the connected world has to offer.

[SchoolKillsMe]

I'd love to be a part of this thing, xcriteria! I think our stories need attention! I'm sick of the school and my mom dictating how I should live. I want and need to grow up and take action, but it seems that I'm in no position or ability to do anything. It's sad and pathetic... If I had someone who could save me, defend me, or something, it would really have a great effect on my life!

[brainiac3397]

First, you must learn to defend, save or something yourself with yourself. Then you can hope for someone to do to you.

You'll just have to do it Rocky style, take the punches till the right moment. The idea is to reduce the damage of those punches while making it harder on the one throwing them(thus quickening their fatigue)

[Unknown-Creation]

(09-05-2013 10:27 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 02:47 PM)Unknown-Creation Wrote:  My counselor has told me his backstory before. I refrained from mentioning it in my first post. Here's the gist of it: he has lost someone near and dear to him at an early, but not too early, age; similar to what I've gone through, baring a few differences. He never went through the grieving stage until the age of 25. He told me that he had similar thoughts on school that most of us here on SS share. Then he tells me that he simply got over it at one point and decided to jump through these hoops.

I see. Well, a lot of people don't "just get over" questioning school... especially when more people are questioning the factory model than ever. More people are sharing their stories than ever (TED talks and otherwise.) So, there are lots more narratives to explore than the one he's trying to sell. And that doesn't include creating a new one.

I agree; many people don't just get over it. I'm sure that there is more to his story than what he is telling me.

(09-05-2013 10:27 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  

(09-04-2013 03:40 PM)Unknown-Creation Wrote:  As for making a case with evidence supporting my claims, I can certainly try doing that once again. I'll see if I can sprinkle any legalese into the mix, too. I've tried negotiating the idea with my school counselor numerous times, and even went to a few other ones, but I'm just going to have to keep speaking up until someone decides to listen. That, or I could simply stop it. Depends on how far I'd like to go.

Maybe it would help to bring in some outside perspectives. Some legalese might help, as well. What are your options if you withdraw from this school? Homeschooling? GED?

My options would probably be homeschooling, and possibly a GED. This wouldn't be possible, though, because my mom simply won't allow me to homeschool.

(09-05-2013 10:27 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  If you stay in school, what are they asking you to do? For example, do you have a schedule of classes, but you're just refusing to go?

They ask me to fully partake in the school system in general (go to class and participate in every silly little thing, for example) without questioning why. They would rather that I completely ignore the issues I have with school, and simply put on a happy face and pretend that everything is okay.

(09-05-2013 10:27 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 02:47 PM)Unknown-Creation Wrote:  And yes, it is well beyond time for the school system to adapt. It definitely won't be relevant within the near future if it stays within its old ways. The system needs to focus on the individual and be more flexible, and needs to focus less on GPAs, standardized tests, forced memorization, and churning out diplomas.

Technology is beginning to be implemented at my school, especially with the bring-your-own-device initiative, but it is only being used in ways that mirror factory model schooling. There is so much more that can be done with technology than merely mirroring the outdated paradigm.

That about sums it up. What if you proposed to help your school research their options, and implement something that better meets the needs of the other students? Some schools already do things differently, and a lot of educators are writing, blogging, and speaking about new uses of technology, as well as ways to adapt learning to what students want to learn.

Some schools are becoming much more adaptive to learner needs. That's especially easy with all the online content like Khan Academy, and free Massively Open Online Course (MOOC) providers like Coursera, edX, Udacity and others.)

This is something that I might look into doing. I'll try giving them some suggestions, so that they can really open their eyes and see what is possible with the technology we have today.

(09-05-2013 10:27 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  So, what interests would you like to pursue? What skills and knowledge would you like to learn? And... what kinds of work do you see yourself doing in the future?

I generally keep quiet about my interests, but I might as well should expose some of them anyway.

I do a lot of work with computers. I want to learn how to program, so that I can make contributions beyond bug reports to the free software community. So far, I am only learning advanced shell scripting, since I have some scripts that I want to touch up on. I plan on learning Python next.

I've been easing myself into playing an ocarina. I have always had an interest with instruments in general, although I am frightened when I have to play near people. I only enjoy playing alone so far... This fear is something that I have to overcome.

I also do work on photos and pixel art, or the occasional drawing on paper. I often go on a long hiatus in between various pieces of work. There are projects that I drop. Sometimes I pick them up again; otherwise, they are temporarily dropped due to other things in my life getting in the way of it.

[xcriteria]

(09-04-2013 03:40 PM)Unknown-Creation Wrote:  My options would probably be homeschooling, and possibly a GED. This wouldn't be possible, though, because my mom simply won't allow me to homeschool.

I dropped out just after I turned 17 and got a GED (I didn't know about it before that or I would have done so earlier.)

In many states, you can get a GED at 16 or 17 with parent permission, and in some other circumstances. The question is then what you'd do next. In my case, I went to college for a while (then I dropped out of that, too.) And then I set out to find work.

That's something to think about, what kind of work do you want to do, and what's your plan for developing the skills and meeting the people to make that happen. Also, that might be something positive to discuss with your mom or even your counselor... your ideas for what you might do after you get out of school (however it plays out.)

(09-04-2013 03:40 PM)Unknown-Creation Wrote:  They ask me to fully partake in the school system in general (go to class and participate in every silly little thing, for example) without questioning why. They would rather that I completely ignore the issues I have with school, and simply put on a happy face and pretend that everything is okay.

Of course, that's how "factory model" schools usually work. But, you have enough perspective to question the entire thing. It puts everyone in a bind. You might want to think about Dunjen's story in Action time! about negotiating a different way of doing things.

[xcriteria]

(09-04-2013 03:40 PM)Unknown-Creation Wrote:  

(09-05-2013 10:27 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  Some schools are becoming much more adaptive to learner needs. That's especially easy with all the online content like Khan Academy, and free Massively Open Online Course (MOOC) providers like Coursera, edX, Udacity and others.)

This is something that I might look into doing. I'll try giving them some suggestions, so that they can really open their eyes and see what is possible with the technology we have today.

You might want to check out Lisa Nielsen's blog, The Innovative Educator and look through older posts in the Categories there. She writes a lot about how educators can make the most of bring-your-own-device policies, adapt to learner needs, and so on.

Some of the posts there address what's wrong with school and how things could be done differently.

A Simple Ed Reform Solution - Connect School Life to Real Life
"Many high school students complain they don’t like school for some very good reasons. They report it is boring, irrelevant, and disconnected from real life. They have a passion for life, but not for school. But it doesn’t have to be this way and there’s a place where it isn’t. It's called The MET and it is one of dozens of schools around the world that make up the Big Picture Company."

Dropping Out was a Great Idea
"Editor's Note: I had the extreme pleasure of joining the author of this post, Nicholas Perez, as a guest on Paul Allison's Teachers Teaching Teachers. In the episode we discussed who drops out and why. I was invited on the show as author of the Teen's Guide to Opting Out of School for Success. Nick was invited because he was a teen who opted out of school to find success. I LOVED what Nick had to say and asked him to please consider sharing his story as I know it will be inspiring to parents, teachers, and teens across the globe. The following post is the result of several month's work. It provides amazing insights and lessons for every educator, administrator and parent. It also happens to be the most important post I've published."

Nikhil Goyal also shares Nick Perez's story in his TEDx talk, "Why Students Hate School"



Watch on YouTube

What's a teacher to do?
"What's a teacher to do when students have awoken to the fact that they don't need you to learn what they care about and you're not in a position to care about what they want to learn?"

I think the solution is for schools to adapt so teachers serve more of a mentorship role, where they focus on understanding learner interests and do what they can to support their process of learning.

This article (and list of articles) has some more tips on how technology and the Internet can make be used to transform education (for teachers and/or learners):

10 Ways Technology Supports 21st Century Learners in Being Self Directed

[xcriteria]

(09-07-2013 03:25 AM)SchoolKillsMe Wrote:  I'd love to be a part of this thing, xcriteria! I think our stories need attention! I'm sick of the school and my mom dictating how I should live. I want and need to grow up and take action, but it seems that I'm in no position or ability to do anything. It's sad and pathetic... If I had someone who could save me, defend me, or something, it would really have a great effect on my life!

Yeah, sharing stories is a good starting point. Then comes the rest of it... how to get in a position (and mindset) to do something meaningful. What are your interests? If you aren't sure what they might be, do some exploring.

Another step to take is to find some meaningful challenges. What's your life like? What does your mom and your school tell you to do? What would you like to do instead?

(09-07-2013 09:30 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  First, you must learn to defend, save or something yourself with yourself. Then you can hope for someone to do to you.

Good advice. Look around and find some challenges, small or large. Try to understand other people's needs... ask questions if you need to. Even your family or people at school. Get to know what they're about, and see how you might help them.

Meanwhile, clarify what you need saving from, and where you need help with defense... it'll make it easier to make a request for help (or even solve your own problem.)