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I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

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Anti-school movement shrinking?
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Sunbourn Offline
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Post: #1
Anti-school movement shrinking?

As all long time members here are aware of, the School-Survival community has diminished considerably over the years. This can largely be attributed to internal factors such as the temporary shutdown and the ceaseless drama that preceded that shutdown. However, a Google search reveals that this remains the only sizable anti-school online community, which may say something about the anti-school movement as a whole. I might be missing something here, but I've dug around pretty thoroughly. It isn't exactly an army, and it's kind of disconcerting. I know damn well that the number of people who hate school isn't going down, but the number of people organizing against it appears to be at a low compared to when I first joined the community. Are people just apathetic about it now? This place was really active a few years ago, and one would expect another community to pick up the slack once it slowed down here, but that never happened.

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(This post was last modified: 09-04-2013 12:32 PM by Sunbourn.)
09-04-2013 12:30 PM
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Miab419 Offline
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RE: Anti-school movement shrinking?

People get sucked into school being the ultimate determining fate of our lives?
09-04-2013 01:50 PM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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RE: Anti-school movement shrinking?

Pockets of dissidents will exist, but like the American Revolution it usually doesnt just happen. And the issue is that the topic is time based, and during a period of being really restricted legally. When people hit college or real world, the topic of their anger just no longer pertains to them.

But what I see a movement as is a perservation of an idea or belief and prepared support for the nearest change. Not many may be activists, but if such sites and movements leave a mark on the visitors, they will take advantage of any opportunity that will assist in fixing the horrendously backwards and contradictory education system.

We may not be very strong in influence, but just existing and being active is like serving as a beacon of light. A small flame we may be, but we may at least provide light to those without it and hope they too share the light with others, helping us grow, even if slowly.

Its my take on this movement.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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09-04-2013 02:56 PM
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RE: Anti-school movement shrinking?

The anti-school movement has never been a strong one simply for these reasons:
*Children and teens have virtually no say, at all, in political policy. Control from adults and the fact that they can't vote, and that political movements are easily quelled, prevents any serious revolt.
*Students are brainwashed into thinking that school is good, and that they are inferiors to adults and that they must learn via school, therefore they blame themselves, not the education system.
*Even really at it's height, this site has never really gotten extremely popular. It'd really be nice if this forum had more regular active members, the traffic would go up and the movement might gain popularity.
*I also think it's a fear factor (not the game show). Students can be quite intimidated easily because they're so young and don't want to be arrested, especially when they have so little with them. If this were thousands pouring in downtown, it would be completely different.

I do still hope that one day, inevitably (and it will happen), the education system collapses, and we'll see thousands of students (and perhaps parents and teachers) calling for a serious reform.

EDIT: I also believe that the reason we have little serious reform is because of the lack of adult supporters of the movement. Not to say there aren't (John Taylor Gatto is a major supporter), but there just aren't enough. However, if we, as a future generation, are able to keep these ideas until adulthood, then that could change the game completely.

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09-04-2013 03:02 PM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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RE: Anti-school movement shrinking?

Course every now and then some napalm doesnt hurt to speed up with spreading the light Biggrin

Edit:lack of support probably due to difference of previous generation and ours. In ours, the web has become the heart of information and sites like these can be accessed with relative ease. We can help save students be providing a mental shelter, sort of like a bank to save them from total brainwash by letting them deposit the unwashed parts here.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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09-04-2013 03:04 PM
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xcriteria Offline
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Anti-school movement shrinking?

A lot more people are speaking up and discussing how things can be done differently than it may appear from a google search. The key is to step beyond "anti-school" and discuss and build learning environments for the 21st century... and it's happening.

The question is just how much time you want to spend learning all about it.

For example, I participated in an massively open online course, or MOOC called Designing a New Learning Environment last year, which was one way I've started to connect with a network of people who are talking about doing things differently. I've been showing them School Survival, but actually getting people to join and communicate on here is a challenge.

But conversations are going on elsewhere. I've dumped out a lot of references in walls of text on various threads here, but they can be tedious to dig through, and you might night make your way to those particular threads. But I keep seeing these posts implying that change is distant and unattainable, or a generation away, when the reality I see is very different.

One person to check out is Nikhil Goyal, who is working on his second book about school. He's given several TEDx talks and other talks, he's met various players in education reform, and he's making familiar arguments: school is irrelevant to many students, and "one size does not fit all" when it comes to education.

Here's a short interview:


Watch on YouTube

Daniel Pink is another author and speaker who has addressed education in his books on human motivation. Here's a clip where he talks about what's wrong with "comply vs. defy" paradigms in education:



Watch on YouTube

There are many more examples to cite. Joi Ito, director of MIT's Media Lab, is himself a college dropout who found it difficult to learn in school. In this (hour-long) discussion in Mitch Resnick's open MIT course, Learning Creative Learning, he talks with Joi Ito and his sister Mimi Ito about interest-based learning, and their differences as learners. If you jump to 47:25 or so, Joi talks about how school didn't fit with how he learned.



Watch on YouTube

Once the conversation changes from just "anti-school," to building and promoting a better learning environment, the factory model will give way for something more fitting for this century.

One key to change is to ask adults to reflect on their own learning experiences... the moments in their lives when they learned things that were really meaningful to them and/or were useful in their lives. Just because someone's older or experience a certain kind of school doesn't mean it's impossible for them to imagine doing things differently. The conversations just need to occur in the right ways. And those conversations, for the most part, require bridging some big gaps in language and mental schemas. But, I think it is possible.

What do you all think of this, given some of the examples like the ones I linked here or elsewhere?

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UnschoolShqiponjë Offline
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RE: Anti-school movement shrinking?

(09-04-2013 03:02 PM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  The anti-school movement has never been a strong one simply for these reasons:
*Children and teens have virtually no say, at all, in political policy. Control from adults and the fact that they can't vote, and that political movements are easily quelled, prevents any serious revolt.
*Students are brainwashed into thinking that school is good, and that they are inferiors to adults and that they must learn via school, therefore they blame themselves, not the education system.
*Even really at it's height, this site has never really gotten extremely popular. It'd really be nice if this forum had more regular active members, the traffic would go up and the movement might gain popularity.
*I also think it's a fear factor (not the game show). Students can be quite intimidated easily because they're so young and don't want to be arrested, especially when they have so little with them. If this were thousands pouring in downtown, it would be completely different.

I do still hope that one day, inevitably (and it will happen), the education system collapses, and we'll see thousands of students (and perhaps parents and teachers) calling for a serious reform.

EDIT: I also believe that the reason we have little serious reform is because of the lack of adult supporters of the movement. Not to say there aren't (John Taylor Gatto is a major supporter), but there just aren't enough. However, if we, as a future generation, are able to keep these ideas until adulthood, then that could change the game completely.

The state also has a vested interest in keeping the school system this way. It produces mindless drones who just want their TV fix and 9-5. OWS showed many who go through schooling are incapable of rational thought or an ability to have a revolution. Violent or otherwise. Just give em their newest iGadget and they will be happy.

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09-05-2013 03:07 PM
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Subb Offline
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RE: Anti-school movement shrinking?

Well, we may be small, that means we're tightly knit. Instead of thousands of people with a common interest, we're dozens of internet friends. A concentrated think-tank, if you will. We're all friends, right?

Also, we have to remember what age we live in, and when we got here. The school system isn't malicious, it's just outdated. The internet is new. Khan Academy is new. Crash Course and SciShow are new. School was essencial, but it's becoming more and more redundent by the day. But it's a part of society. It's going to be like switching from the telegraph to the telephone.

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09-05-2013 03:15 PM
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xcriteria Offline
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Anti-school movement shrinking?

(09-05-2013 03:07 PM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  The state also has a vested interest in keeping the school system this way. It produces mindless drones who just want their TV fix and 9-5.

I don't think this is true in most of the modern world. States need people who can think, innovate, and create, if for no other reason than to compete in a global economy. But there are other reasons, as well -- the world faces different kinds of challenges, and more uncertain risks, than it did in the past.

This interconnected world also offers new kinds of opportunities. But the key thing is that people need to develop the ability to manage their own lives in a world where the answers aren't just handed down to them, and where there are more choices than ever if you know where to look for them.

In short, I don't think states (except authoritarian regimes) have any vested interest in a population who can't think. Getting people to learn all these 21st century skills is the big challenge, especially with an archaic factory-model school system.

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brainiac3397 Offline
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RE: Anti-school movement shrinking?

States want innovative people but they dont bother creating them. They just hope some will not be totally demolished by the education system in place to benefit the state. The rest are just fodder for the bureaucrat cubicles.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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09-06-2013 01:32 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #11
Anti-school movement shrinking?

A lot of discussion in general is moving to Facebook these days.

I know of several groups of people who are into alternative education things. Maybe not anti-school specifically, and not specifically aimed at students, but similar viewpoints.

This is the SS group:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/60430605118/

Aaand I'm sure xcriteria can tell you about all the others. Razz

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09-06-2013 07:02 AM
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UnschoolShqiponjë Offline
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RE: Anti-school movement shrinking?

(09-05-2013 03:16 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  
(09-05-2013 03:07 PM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  The state also has a vested interest in keeping the school system this way. It produces mindless drones who just want their TV fix and 9-5.

I don't think this is true in most of the modern world. States need people who can think, innovate, and create, if for no other reason than to compete in a global economy. But there are other reasons, as well -- the world faces different kinds of challenges, and more uncertain risks, than it did in the past.

This interconnected world also offers new kinds of opportunities. But the key thing is that people need to develop the ability to manage their own lives in a world where the answers aren't just handed down to them, and where there are more choices than ever if you know where to look for them.

In short, I don't think states (except authoritarian regimes) have any vested interest in a population who can't think. Getting people to learn all these 21st century skills is the big challenge, especially with an archaic factory-model school system.

Correction. States don't want people to think for themselves. That is what I meant. States want people who will just "elect" their master... I mean leader and just do what he says.

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09-06-2013 03:16 PM
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RE: Anti-school movement shrinking?

Turnover may also be to blame. The time during which this subject is directly relevant to a given person is finite, and the people who stay around to put effort into a movement that no longer applies to them are few and far between. Every year there are more who go off to enjoy their new freedom, and more just coming into the movement who may not be able to contribute significantly yet. Most of the anti-school folks seem to be in a state of aimless dissatisfaction, with a much smaller subsection making definite plans and efforts toward change. This might be one of the things that explain the slowness of progress, but why the decreasing participation?

I'm afraid the web forum is becoming archaic, if it isn't on its deathbed already. I know more people today who consume content chiefly through social media and aggregators, rather than by googling idly for topics of niche interest, as seems to be the habit of people my age (22) or older. It might then be less likely that the target audience would stumble onto such a place as this, though I'm sure the Facebook presence helps a lot.

Consider also that escaping into vacuous content is easier now than ever before. Why organize and fight when you can forget your worries with kitten photos and those outrage comics on the Re-edit?

Honestly, I'm just talking shit.

I did like the idea that we're a beacon of hope, though. I like to think of this place as a lighthouse. It's not necessarily here to get anything done, although that could be a pleasant effect. It's here for those who need some hope, commiseration, and guidance. Maybe seeing it this way can help us avoid worrying that decreased activity on the forum indicates stagnation in the movement in general.
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09-06-2013 10:28 PM
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Anti-school movement shrinking?

Well, before the forum it used to be the BBS(I had almost no experience it with, since it was disappearing by the time I started using a PC, though I did encounter it once or twice. I began using a PC at the age of 5). It's likely that forums will slowly give way to the more inter-connected social media sites(Facebook for instance). Forums still do survive, so I wouldn't say archaic just yet, but at this rate, the Internet forum will be bunking with BBS in the elderly home.

Hopefully our lighthouse will not end up like the one in Alexandria, even if we do get considered one of the seven ancient wonders of the world.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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09-07-2013 05:01 AM
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RE: Anti-school movement shrinking?

(09-07-2013 05:01 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Well, before the forum it used to be the BBS(I had almost no experience it with, since it was disappearing by the time I started using a PC, though I did encounter it once or twice. I began using a PC at the age of 5). It's likely that forums will slowly give way to the more inter-connected social media sites(Facebook for instance). Forums still do survive, so I wouldn't say archaic just yet, but at this rate, the Internet forum will be bunking with BBS in the elderly home.

Hopefully our lighthouse will not end up like the one in Alexandria, even if we do get considered one of the seven ancient wonders of the world.
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09-24-2013 08:14 AM
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Anti-school movement shrinking?

GTAForums has been around since 2001 and still going strong, my friend.

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09-24-2013 08:40 AM
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Anti-school movement shrinking?

SLOWLY on a COSMIC scale Biggrin

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RE: Anti-school movement shrinking?

Quite frankly many of the regulars here were and are just complainers who had an idea that school was bad but did not get the big picture nor have the drive to understand. The smart ones were either really cynical and/or burnouts and most of them vanished (mostly) circa august 2012. School is just a maggot filled hand on the decaying body of society. The more you know the more you realize school is just part of a loooong list of problems,

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09-24-2013 03:00 PM
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RE: Anti-school movement shrinking?

Well, education has a long-term effect. It also branches out in many areas. Thus a rotten educational system means you have lots of problems in lots of areas that will take lots of time just to be acknowledged by the public. The public which grew up under the very system...

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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09-25-2013 12:54 AM
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RE: Anti-school movement shrinking?

I, for one, thank xcriteria for showing us that there's more action being taken outside of our bastion. Linking up with them would be excellent for all involved, if we can do it right.

Also nice to know that their goal is more than just abolishing public school at present; instead they are choosing to try and make it better (the learning environment).

Jack's comment, "Most of the anti-school folks seem to be in a state of aimless dissatisfaction..." fit me to a T when I first joined SS. And it's pretty obvious it fits others as well. I mean no ill will; if I could start "making definite plans and efforts toward change" or at least talking about it then they can too. Then again, I was able to leave public school.

(Also I still prefer forums over social media; I don't even use Facebook. The collection of users' private data is just one of the reasons. And I'm sure the forum will live on. I hope.)

Speaking of public school, I view it as partly malicious, even if it's unintended. It's definitely outmoded, though. It's pretty obvious to those who look that the present model was the result of industrialists and interests in government needing a bigger workforce who would be willing and able to work for them. See also: the Gilded Age.

I think we'd do fine to function at least as a lighthouse. IamNoone's comment highlights something we should probably do, though: teaching malcontents about how why school sucks. They already know how. Knowing why (and maybe when it started) would help all of us.

I do wish we'd get more posters, though :(
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2013 11:04 AM by Trar.)
12-10-2013 11:04 AM
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 Thanks given by: SoulRiser , The man
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Post: #21
Anti-school movement shrinking?

Wow this site has declined since then.

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RIP NIGHT
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04-07-2017 01:05 PM
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The man Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Anti-school movement shrinking?

(09-05-2013 03:15 PM)Subb Wrote:  Well, we may be small, that means we're tightly knit. Instead of thousands of people with a common interest, we're dozens of internet friends. A concentrated think-tank, if you will. We're all friends, right?

Also, we have to remember what age we live in, and when we got here. The school system isn't malicious, it's just outdated. The internet is new. Khan Academy is new. Crash Course and SciShow are new. School was essencial, but it's becoming more and more redundent by the day. But it's a part of society. It's going to be like switching from the telegraph to the telephone.

THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS!

their pee should hv been shot out like a ki blast breaking the rocks

oh and also No one has any rights. We're free, rights create invisible restrictions. But we live in a society where the majority accepts rights to be true.
04-07-2017 11:19 PM
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Post: #23
Anti-school movement shrinking?

Better outreach is one thing the site needs. The shitstorms back then were fun but may have harmed us in the long run because they drove away so many users (Desu, Neue, Trar, etc)

RIP GWEDIN
RIP URITIYOGI
RIP NIGHT
RIP VONUNOV
RIP WES/THEWAKE
RIP USERNAME

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Stop jerking off to porn and whining and do something about it

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04-08-2017 12:41 AM
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Avatar Korra Offline
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Post: #24
Anti-school movement shrinking?

What kind of shitstorms occured?

"I’M BEGGING YOU, PRINCE ZUKO! It’s time for you to look inward and begin asking yourself the big question: who are you and what do YOU want?"
" While it is always best to believe in one’s self, a little help from others can be a great blessing"
-Uncle Iroh(Avatar: the Last Airbender)
(This post was last modified: 04-08-2017 02:03 AM by Avatar Korra.)
04-08-2017 02:03 AM
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Gwedin Offline
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Post: #25
Anti-school movement shrinking?

neue is still around in the discord (and irc i think idk)

doesn't talk at all but he/she is there
04-08-2017 05:07 AM
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Post: #26
RE: Anti-school movement shrinking?

(04-08-2017 05:07 AM)Gwedin Wrote:  neue is still around in the discord (and irc i think idk)

doesn't talk at all but he/she is there

Tell Neue to check his/her PMs on SS pronto.

(04-08-2017 02:03 AM)Korravatar Wrote:  What kind of shitstorms occured?

Really long story. There's a sister site called "Dark n Edgy" which is/was made up of old users of the site (or oldfags, or oldfafs) who left because they felt Soul was overreaching and had different goals.

Over time the site attracts new users (newfags or newfafs such as me, Subb, Brainiac, and Gwedin), and the forum changes a bit. Then in mid-2014 some of the older ones start returning and cue a big ass debate/forum war over how the site was run filled with silly attack threads, brigading, trolling, and insults.

It was funny as hell but I think long term everyone looked like a fucking fool and it stopped us from actually getting shit done with the site.

Not to mention other shitstorms you're not familiar with:
Duelix: You'd rather not know.

Indian Black Magic Spambots: A bunch of Indian Spambots promoting black magic services completely fucking invaded the forum board on New Year's Eve/Day 2013-14, completely spamming every fucking section of the site with spam, even overloading entire pages with spam. Holy shit.

Baconbot: Some spamfag who decided he'd post big ass images on every forum thread; was human.

DoApocalypse: The mass banning of a lot of users, quite epic.

This doesn't even count the other shitstorms in the past (such as Justin mass-banning every user on SS, Crayola_Colours who was a shitstorm in herself, and The, who tried selling drugs and bragged about it).

RIP GWEDIN
RIP URITIYOGI
RIP NIGHT
RIP VONUNOV
RIP WES/THEWAKE
RIP USERNAME

[Image: Nas-One-Love.jpg]

Stop jerking off to porn and whining and do something about it

Make School Survival Great Again - MSSGA

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04-08-2017 05:59 AM
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