Gifted Programs

[Just A Minor Threat]

Anyone have any thoughts on those Gifted (or in some schools Talented) programs and the people in them?

Personally, all the gifted kids I've met have been just as stupid and just as much a sheep as everyone else. Not trying to make a generalization statement though it's just the one's I've met and I'm sure not all of them are like this.

[Miab419]

Some schools have programs for higher level students and basically all they do is give them more homework, material a grade higher than their own, and occasionally a project. All it really takes is a higher grade

[Just A Minor Threat]

Yeah, I've heard they're pretty much that. It sounds pretty unnecessary, to be honest. I've also heard that apparently gifted kids have a "different way" of thinking. It sounds like bullshit, in my opinion. If they were really as smart as the system says, they'd probably figure out the bullshit that is behind the school system and not stress themselves over it as much as they do.

[Dead]

The kids at my school who were in the gifted and talented program still went to normal classes, but they'd always get called down or ask to go to the gifted class and work on a project. Then they would get a longer deadline to complete the work in the normal classes. I know they did a couple things like the school newspaper and yearbook but other than that they pretty much just screwed around...

The kids who went to the gifted classes weren't necessary the smartest, but instead the most obedient.

[Just A Minor Threat]

In my school they get "enriched" classes. All that project stuff is extra curricular and it's usually during lunch or after school. Kind of like club except you can only get in if your test scores are high enough.

That's kind of what I was thinking. They stress themselves out over bullshit and the teachers call it more "challenging to fit their needs" which is absolutely insane! All that work isn't gonna help a kid. It's gonna cause them a ton of stress and maybe even a breakdown here and there. I guess you could say, ironically, the gifted are the stupidest/obedient. At least in my school anyway.

[James Comey]

I never really bothered with the "gifted classes" to be honest. They were always bull to me.

[Just A Minor Threat]

They definitely are. They do more harm than good in my opinion. Some of the kids come out of those classes feeling so arrogant it pisses me off. Their parents raise them to be perfect children and when they fuck up they freak out like the worlds ending.

[James Comey]

It's really symbolism. It's like grades. Sure, you're grades are high, but in reality, grades are an imaginative number which only goes up or down because a rather meaningless, mundane, piece of paper containing information you may have forgotten. To me, it really doesn't show intelligence. It definitely shows obedience, though.

[Just A Minor Threat]

Also, the thing about grades is that they're pretty much subjective. People treat it like an objective thing but that isn't further from the truth. Grades show the ability to please the master and with different masters comes different grades, so yeah, in other words, obedience. It's like training your dog. When you tell your dog to sit and she/he sits you give a treat or a petting. In my school it's the same thing. This one kid got really high math marks and the math teacher was praising her and calling her "super intelligent". She had a shit eating grin the entire time. It's giving the students a bone, if you will. Except, they're fooled into thinking the bone has any actual meaning.

[Meow I'm a Cat]

I was in a gifted class. I hated it. Whether you are gifted or not depends entirely on a grade on a paper, and the only difference is that the work goes faster. It really sucked. It's filled with a bunch of idiotic brainwashed Asians (I'm not kidding, only two kids in the class weren't Asian. Me and this other girl. We were also the two "dumbest" in the class) with huge amounts of academic knowledge but very little of what's actually important.

[James Comey]

I'm not even gonna lie. I mean absolute no offense when I post this, but a lot of the kids who generally get the high GPAs and all the "gifted" bull are Asian. If reading any sort of Asian American literature tells me, it's that Asian American parents have perennially high expectations for their children to excel in school. I don't say this for all Asian parents, or students. As an example, I use to sit next to an Asian kid who HATED algebra.

[brainiac3397]

Typical. Asian culture has long been based on strict and harsh obedience, total avoidance of individualism and personal status based on prestige and symbolism(though there have been times where it wasn't so then and now).

It's a cultural thing for them. But logic and reason doesn't adhere to cultures. Cultures come and go, logic always remains. It may be influenced by culture in either positive or negative ways(usually the latter), but it remains itself.

People just can't seem to go beyond the boundaries they seem to enjoy adhering themselves to.

[James Comey]

Moving on from that, I'd also like to say that at my high school, every know and then (at the near end of each semester), my school proudly wasted kids time on an assembly to honor those with the highest grades. Basically, it was a scrolling screen of students names with high GPAs. I'm gonna be honest: these assemblies would bum me out, because in my sophomore year, my GPA came crashing down. Eventually though, I realized that grades are, as I've said, a made up points system which fluctuates depending if you turn in homework, which themselves are quite meaningless and don't measure intelligence.

[Just A Minor Threat]

I think one of the hugest problems with gifted education is the treatment of other "non-gifted" students. For the non-gifted kids who actually care about their grades, it really makes 'em feel like shit. And assemblies for gifted kids is really fucking stupid. What makes the school think that the whole student body should care about what the non-existent accomplishments of these "gifted" kids anyway? Oh right, they should "take example" from the best slaves and strive to be more like them. It's really pathetic.

Oh and regarding the race/gifted thing, I only knew one kid who was Asian that took Gifted. Over here, the majority of gifted kids were white.

[brainiac3397]

And I always wondered why I never got my gift.

[James Comey]

The whole good grades thing and the "you're on the path of success" and "model students" is also a great propaganda tool as well. It basically stresses students to keep paying attention. The "model student" can be used in order to encourage students to be like that person. It may also be used as a futile attempt to raise grades and test scores, yet as I explained, it has an opposite effect.

[Just A Minor Threat]

(08-07-2013 10:08 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  And I always wondered why I never got my gift.

Maybe they felt like you weren't a subordinate enough slave?

(08-07-2013 03:16 PM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  The whole good grades thing and the "you're on the path of success" and "model students" is also a great propaganda tool as well. It basically stresses students to keep paying attention. The "model student" can be used in order to encourage students to be like that person. It may also be used as a futile attempt to raise grades and test scores, yet as I explained, it has an opposite effect.

Yeah, and all that pressure to "let others down" is huge! Like the whole school's on their back and the student body counts on them. Sometimes they feel like it's their job to help everybody and they lose hair over it. A "model student" is only an arrogant slave to me. Someone who's proud of their prison sentence. I don't know how these kids go to school everyday and can possibly still function properly with all that work they've given.

[James Comey]

It may be not because they want to do it, but because they have strict parents (like braniac said). Obviously though, they're not exclusively Asian, as going around these forums (Youth Rights) will tell you strict parents come in all forms. It may also be because, well, they're brainwashed or paranoid they MUST do great in school. They have a commitment or determination to do it.

[Christian Hellhound]

(08-06-2013 06:23 PM)Just A Minor Threat Wrote:  I think one of the hugest problems with gifted education is the treatment of other "non-gifted" students. For the non-gifted kids who actually care about their grades, it really makes 'em feel like shit. And assemblies for gifted kids is really fucking stupid. What makes the school think that the whole student body should care about what the non-existent accomplishments of these "gifted" kids anyway? Oh right, they should "take example" from the best slaves and strive to be more like them. It's really pathetic.

Oh and regarding the race/gifted thing, I only knew one kid who was Asian that took Gifted. Over here, the majority of gifted kids were white.

^ THIS. This so darn much.

[Potato]

lol i was in a gifted program and i'm asian, but on the other hand i seem to be the only person here who's convinced my parents to sign me into a home school status.

[brainiac3397]

My parents came to America as first-gen immigrants or whatever you call it. My father lived in America long enough to adopt parts of the individualist culture, but my mother didnt because my father visited he US before marrying.

As such, it would be outright impossible to ask for homeschooling simply because my mother refused anything outside mainstream. Hell, I have a hard time persuading her of anything because she'd rather trust another person's advice or opinion rather than mine(as I supposedly not old enough or wise enough).

I never did become part of a gifted program because when I was told, I simply told them I refused and also told them it wasnt their problem to care for the reasons and to mind their own business. That kept them at a distance thankfully.

[Lime]

They're putting on a facade. So-called gifted students hate school just as much as anyone else. They're held to a higher standard by almost everyone (for some people, MUCH higher) to the point where messing up in these institutions brands them as failures, but it doesn't necessarily mean they're brainwashed.

If you know "gifted" people who obsess over their grades, just cut them some slack...they deserve it. It might seem like first world problems to you, but they will face much worse for what you wouldn't care about at all. If you actually get to know one, you'll probably find they are still humans.

A bit defensive I suppose considering I've taken my fair share of GT or whatever classes throughout the years, but please do not insult them. They have enough problems of their own.

[brainiac3397]

You mean they obey like slaves to society to avoid the ostracism and leash.

Give me liberty or give me death must have been a part of history they were never taught. A man makes himself, he isnt made by others. We should not insult them, but they deserve no pity if they knowingly choose to use a facade and cooperate simply because they fear social reprisal.

[Just A Minor Threat]

(08-09-2013 12:07 PM)Lime Wrote:  They're putting on a facade. So-called gifted students hate school just as much as anyone else. They're held to a higher standard by almost everyone (for some people, MUCH higher) to the point where messing up in these institutions brands them as failures, but it doesn't necessarily mean they're brainwashed.

If you know "gifted" people who obsess over their grades, just cut them some slack...they deserve it. It might seem like first world problems to you, but they will face much worse for what you wouldn't care about at all. If you actually get to know one, you'll probably find they are still humans.

A bit defensive I suppose considering I've taken my fair share of GT or whatever classes throughout the years, but please do not insult them. They have enough problems of their own.

I have gotten to know quite a few. They were arrogant and acted like they were better than everyone. If anyone made a mistake they'd feel like it was their job to "correct" them. I understand they're still humans, but it won't change anything. Although, I understand what you're saying and if I sound like I'm insulting everyone who's been involved in higher classes (generalizing and all), then I'll just let you know that wasn't my intention. I didn't mean to be offensive (if that's how I was coming off). I was speaking from personal experience.

(08-09-2013 04:07 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  You mean they obey like slaves to society to avoid the ostracism and leash.

Give me liberty or give me death must have been a part of history they were never taught. A man makes himself, he isnt made by others. We should not insult them, but they deserve no pity if they knowingly choose to use a facade and cooperate simply because they fear social reprisal.

I was just about to say something similar to this. If people didn't fight back because of fear of how society would react then we'd have no progress.

[Lime]

Quote:I have gotten to know quite a few.

How? I've had people who've tried to start conversations with me, but often I felt they were being obnoxious or felt sorry for me since I was perceived as some sort of outcast loner (probably because I don't usually talk for the sake of it). Some of them changed later on but you must consider your approach.

Quote:They were arrogant and acted like they were better than everyone. If anyone made a mistake they'd feel like it was their job to "correct" them.

Maybe they were simply trying to help people. If you feel it's a problem, try seeing what the actual deal is.

Quote:Give me liberty or give me death must have been a part of history they were never taught. A man makes himself, he isnt made by others.

People can have that motto but in the end it means nothing to children. They can't do anything but go along with it, because there are simply too many factors controlling them. Resistance literally is futile. If you were surrounded by 2000 tanks and were ordered to do this and that, it makes no sense to refuse because they would simply shoot you dead first thing. Similar situation here. You don't die of course but you end up no better at best and, in most cases, worse.

The exception here is if you would help other people because then your act is not meaningless and it actually helps something, so in that case there's no excuse.

Really, the above applies to every student, but some don't have their parents' sympathy. Thus any authority in their life that can control them will.

Quote:We should not insult them, but they deserve no pity if they knowingly choose to use a facade and cooperate simply because they fear social reprisal.

Social acceptance is probably the last thing on their minds.

Their best option will probably be limited to speaking out as adults, where former guardians no longer have authorized reign. People will actually listen to them instead of thinking "Oh lol this is guy is just some whiny dumbfuck who's angry because he did bad at school he doesn't even have a high school diploma hurrrr UMAD BRO?" and the school itself can't shut them up. Seems like there are a lot of people who completely forget the suffering they went through in school and grow up to be just as oppressive to the generations before them, which has got to stop.

[Just A Minor Threat]

(08-10-2013 02:39 AM)Lime Wrote:  How? I've had people who've tried to start conversations with me, but often I felt they were being obnoxious or felt sorry for me since I was perceived as some sort of outcast loner (probably because I don't usually talk for the sake of it). Some of them changed later on but you must consider your approach.

How as in how I've started conversations? I just talked to them. They were around so either I or they said hi or whatever. In my school the gifted kids are the most well liked and popular kids in the school. They're incredibly social so in my area the social outcast idea is out the window.

(08-10-2013 02:39 AM)Lime Wrote:  Maybe they were simply trying to help people. If you feel it's a problem, try seeing what the actual deal is.

Calling people "idiots" and saying "I'm usually right about everything. You're wrong most of the time" is trying to help people? I see this as a huge problem. If this is helping then the word should be redefined. The actual deal here is being insulted.

[Lime]

Quote:How as in how I've started conversations? I just talked to them. They were around so either I or they said hi or whatever. In my school the gifted kids are the most well liked and popular kids in the school. They're incredibly social so in my area the social outcast idea is out the window.

Hmm, OK. That doesn't sound so good.

Quote:Calling people "idiots" and saying "I'm usually right about everything. You're wrong most of the time" is trying to help people? I see this as a huge problem. If this is helping then the word should be redefined. The actual deal here is being insulted.

I felt some clarification was needed on exactly what correcting meant. Thanks for clearing that up.

Yeah, I agree, these people are probably assholes and deserve what comes their way. Just don't blast anyone without seeing if it's justified.

[Just A Minor Threat]

(08-10-2013 06:41 AM)Lime Wrote:  Hmm, OK. That doesn't sound so good.

It isn't. These are all the kids that start or get invited to all the parties. You know how some schools have 'Academic' and 'Applied' as the levels of learning? It's always the Academic and Gifted kids who are the most popular over here.

(08-10-2013 06:41 AM)Lime Wrote:  I felt some clarification was needed on exactly what correcting meant. Thanks for clearing that up.

Yeah, I agree, these people are probably assholes and deserve what comes their way. Just don't blast anyone without seeing if it's justified.

No problem.

Yeah. I didn't mean to 'cause any animosity towards anyone who was automatically in Gifted programs. Being in Gifted programs are one thing, using it to put those who aren't is another. I was just pointing out the arrogance of the Gifted kids that attend my school.

[James Comey]

The academic kids are the most popular at your school? At my school, it's the usual. Those who are preppy-ass arrogant assholes are the most popular. The pseudo-gangsters are also in the "cool" crowd. Believe me, they're both arrogant as hell. In fact, if you actually care about your damn grades, you're probably not that popular.

[Just A Minor Threat]

(08-10-2013 07:24 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  The academic kids are the most popular at your school? At my school, it's the usual. Those who are preppy-ass arrogant assholes are the most popular. The pseudo-gangsters are also in the "cool" crowd. Believe me, they're both arrogant as hell. In fact, if you actually care about your damn grades, you're probably not that popular.

That's weird 'cause the preppy kids here are in all the academic classes. They're all over-achievers, go to every non class specific trip, join most of the clubs and even during assemblies they're in nearly every picture! The pseudo-gangster kids are also popular here, too. Those guys are balanced. You'll find them in both Academic and Applied. It's not even that they care about their grades, it's just half of the teachers here are so fixated on their favorites and if it's not that it's all the popular kids cheating off of each other.