The Book of Ecclesiastics

[Subb]

Yes, this is gonna be about the Bible. It's one of the awesome parts, so stick around.

A couple years ago, I went to a retreat, where we did an exercise where we opened up the Bible to a random page and began reading. I opened to the beginning of Ecclesiastics, and my mind was blown. I read the whole thing in one sitting.

I've went from "Devout Catholic" to "I Don't Know Let Me Go Away And Think" since that time. But the teachings of Ecclesiastics will be with me no matter what.

Basically, this guy (supposedly Solomon), asked God for wisdom when he became king. When he got it, he fell into a depression, and wrote down his finding. Modern interpretations say "This book's purpose is to examine life without God." But I say that's bullshit. This book is just plain truth. It's worth a read no matter what your religion is. Here's a link to it:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...rsion=HCSB

Heck, I'll give you the first chapter (HCSB):

Everything is Futile

1 The words of the Teacher,[a] son of David, king in Jerusalem.

2 “Absolute futility,” says the Teacher.
“Absolute futility. Everything is futile.”
3 What does a man gain for all his efforts
that he labors at under the sun?
4 A generation goes and a generation comes,
but the earth remains forever.
5 The sun rises and the sun sets;
panting, it returns to its place
where it rises.
6 Gusting to the south,
turning to the north,
turning, turning, goes the wind,
and the wind returns in its cycles.
7 All the streams flow to the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
The streams are flowing to the place,
and they flow there again.
8 All things[b] are wearisome;
man is unable to speak.
The eye is not satisfied by seeing
or the ear filled with hearing.
9 What has been is what will be,
and what has been done is what will be done;
there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Can one say about anything,
“Look, this is new”?
It has already existed in the ages before us.
11 There is no remembrance of those who[c] came before;
and of those who[d] will come after
there will also be no remembrance
by those who follow them.
The Limitations of Wisdom

12 I, the Teacher, have been[e] king over Israel in Jerusalem. 13 I applied my mind to seek and explore through wisdom all that is done under heaven. God has given people this miserable task to keep them occupied. 14 I have seen all the things that are done under the sun and have found everything to be futile, a pursuit of the wind.[f]

15 What is crooked cannot be straightened;
what is lacking cannot be counted.
16 I said to myself,[g] “Look, I have amassed wisdom far beyond all those who were over Jerusalem before me, and my mind has thoroughly grasped[h] wisdom and knowledge.” 17 I applied my mind to know wisdom and knowledge, madness and folly; I learned that this too is a pursuit of the wind.[i]

18 For with much wisdom is much sorrow;
as knowledge increases, grief increases.

[Miab419]

In philosophy, there are arguments of happiness and how one is said to achieve full happiness. Aristotle would argue that happiness was more than pleasure itself and to obtain true happiness, one basically had to be the best human being they could be (retain kind ethics and exercise his mind). It is thought that obtaining happiness through Aristolian means transcends pleasure

[Subb]

Interesting..

[Subb]

Ugh, my mom is all like "As Christains, we need to think joyful thoughts and be happy. It's the best thing to do!" It's clear that she hasn't read the bible.

"18 For with much wisdom is much sorrow;
as knowledge increases, grief increases."

Now let's use some logic:

1. If Knowledge causes sadness, then sadness can be a sign of wisdom.
2. Knowledge causes sadness.
3 Therfore, Sadness can be a sign of wisdom.

So, does this mean I have to choose between happiness and wisdom?

[Miab419]

Some tend to think so. Others believe knowledge is a treasure of life in itself.

[xcriteria]

I suggest taking the words of Ecclesiastes with a grain of salt. God or not, there's more to life than misery, and I think wisdom can help on the path to happiness. Especially in the modern world, not everything is futile.

It's understandable why someone launched into a position of leadership, writing ages ago, would come up with such a despairing view of life, but come on... look around... there's a lot more to life than despair.

Quote: Can one say about anything,
“Look, this is new”?
It has already existed in the ages before us.

(A.k.a., It's been done)

I remember life before the Internet. The Internet is new. And it sure wasn't around in the time of Ecclesiastes.

Not to mention recent inventions like YouTube... School Survival... tvtropes... and so on... not to mention... older ones like the light bulb, airplanes, the printing press, and all that.

I guess you can be just as miserable reading and writing on School Survival as walking through the desert millennia ago, begging God for something new and finding a world half full. But, there's more to life in both cases.

Regarding the Bible, you can find many contradictions in it, and therefore there's a lot of room for selective interpretation. But, that doesn't mean reality or life itself is a complete void of chaos.

Just "thinking positive thoughts" isn't necessarily the answer... but don't stop searching just because one person confirms your hunch that all is futile.

[brainiac3397]

And TV shows like Star Trek.

Because Resistance IS Futile...

I don't have happiness, or unhappiness. Contentment is something I aim for, the peace of success at the end of the line. And my only requirement to continue on that path is to just live. Or as a more emotional might understand: Life itself is the root of happiness, in a sense.

Course that doesn't mean the end of life is sadness or being unhappy. The end of life is simply the end of life. Technically it should mean peace, because the end of life is 100% death, a "completion".

Or something.

[Subb]

I do take it with a bit of salt, actually.You can do a lot of good in your life, but the benefit will fade away. Eventually, you will die, and everyone you know will die, everyone who has heard of you will die, and your works and achievements will be replaced with better ones. We will all fade from history at some point. Everything is temporary.

But that the will-be. This is the now. We can still be happy, and spread our happiness. It wouldn't last, but it's still happiness, right?

One more thing. The original text actually has a word that's a lexical gap in English. It's the one being interpreted as "futility". Our closest word to it is "mist". Still there and plainly seen, but has no real substance. It's also been interpreted as "vanity", "mist", "useless, and "pointless".

[brainiac3397]

Pretty sure there are some who have done good and benefited in such ways we will never forget them...

[Potato]

sounds like blasphemy, idk why this shit is in the bible.

but one thing that's interesting about religious people though is that they don't respond with great happiness if diagnosed with terminal illness. you'd expect it to be like an unexpected vacation for them, but most of them don't tend to celebrate that news. they're obviously smart enough to know that death is death and there is no heaven afterwards, but they still say they believe in heaven. it's contradictory behavior, and it's kind of like corpus callosotomy patients, where the corpus callosum is cut, and the two hemispheres become individual persons who sometimes fight each other with each of their side of the body, broca's area is only on one of the hemispheres so only one of the persons get to express themselves through language. it's almost like religious people, part of them are smart enough to know that religion is bullshit and reacts with the appropriate emotions in the face of impending death, but the stupid part is the part that keeps talking.

[Miab419]

So some religious people know that what they believe in is in the end bullshit and still follow it?

[FreelancePoliceman]

I actually like that book. Solomon's point was that everything is pointless in the long run–you and everyone you know and love will die, your property will go to another, and you will eventually be forgotten. That's why you should live in the present, stop thinking about the afterlife, trust that the evil will be judged, and to enjoy life while you have it.

Potato, show me one instance of blasphemy in the book.