School hierarchy

[James Comey]

I'm not sure if this should go here, but I might as well post.

What's really disturbing in middle and high school is that there exists some sort of fictional hierarchy among people. It seems that the top of the hierarchy, or the elite, is always in the mainstream. They're not necessarily bright or perfect, they just act in the social norm, and think of themselves as highly as possible. I've dealt with people who think of themselves highly in the hierarchy, and they like to be smugs. They like to make fun of you and toy with you mentally. They don't care if you have feelings. These people are utter jerks, and these are the people you'll eventually see doing weird things like you see in rehab shows, etc.

Unfortunately, there are the "peasants". The "peasants" aren't in the elite because they're not all that. They don't dress with what's in the mainstream, they don't listen to music that is accepted as "cool". A lot of the "peasants", though, are actually nice people, they're smart, they themselves are much more cooler and interesting any day of the week than the snobs that are on the top. I've hung out with the "peasants" before, they're great people. I'd rather be with them any day of the week than the "cool" kids.

Then there is what I like to call the "middle class". These are the students that don't think of themselves too highly, they're average, they try to act nice, but they always try to model themselves after those freaking elites. They like to talk to them. They ignore and scorn the "peasants" because it's supposedly not okay to hang out with them. No no, if you hang out with them, we'll exclude you from everything!

A lot of the "peasants" are:
*Students from poorer backgrounds
*Students that have mental disorders
*Students that are LGBT (though some LGBT may be in the other 2 classes)
*Students that don't follow mainstream
*Students that don't get themselves in stupid shit (risky parties, sex, drugs, alcohol), and are perceived as not cool
*Students that have trouble socializing

We always have to hear about a teen suicide from another, and it should all make sense. It derives from this freaking hierarchy. Very seldom, but not unheard of, are those from the middle classes that hang out with the peasants, and I've met these people, because they realize how fucking wrong it is to treat people simply because of what they prefer, or things that are not in their control. However, as I say, very seldom. These kids that commit suicide don't have much friends, much support, and the peer pressures only mount.

There are campaigns against bullying and whatnot, but that's too vague. It's like trying to combat childhood obesity, but we like to go to the basics. We like to assume, "oh, because fast food is more available, they're eating and not excising!". We never say that kids are getting fat because schools are getting rid of recess, and that only one state has mandatory PE for high school in all grades is Illinois (though PE classes themselves needs to be different). Bullying doesn't just start because bullies were bullied themselves, but because they are taught that as well. The elites are taught to think of themselves highly. They like to brag how much they have, they like to look down at poor students, they may even be told by their parents to be that way. Schools have to teaching against in my opinion is a hierarchy. Enough is enough. It's passed down to people, but we need to start teaching and fighting against it. I've had to be one of the "peasants", it was not a good experience.

[Miab419]

I wanna say it has to do with something along the lines of immaturity (if that could be an accurate word). Some kids of all ages really have no idea the harm they may be causing to others, or that "sticking with the crowd" isn't always the right thing to do. It may be a psychological thing, but it seems kids around their preteens to teens typically have no conscience and are basically social puppets. I'm not gonna lie, I get uncomfortable being on a junior high or high school campus; the kids are out of control.
Instead of focusing on the grades, the teachers should spend more time concentrating on raising the kids a little more to be well mannered, or at least have some sort of ethics. But of course, teachers go to "teach" and it isn't even their responsibility to make sure the kids learn, let alone pick up decent manners or at least THINK. Although, that's a tough one as well. In today's schools (today's youth in general), kids are all about the newest movie, the newest videogame, who's dating who, etc. I'll be honest, I didn't feel like I really thought about things until junior year in high school, which if anything, was because I started being more about myself. Would it take every kid to find themselves to start thinking? I don't know; it seems people eventually mellow down somewhat, some completely change altogether. But I definitely think schools should focus more on character than on cranking kids out while stealing their parents money, claiming they have the best program for this and that. And the parents can take some of the blame as well, for being shallow and misunderstanding their child's needs, even if they are living "busy lives..."
Man, were kinda fucked up...

[154bmag]

"In the high school halls, be cool or be cast out" -- Geddy Lee

[brainiac3397]

Nah. This is the only accurate portrayal of real life a school environment actually manages to create(though without the ability to take legal action)

It's a natural human development, though once upon a time it was stymied by simple actions like impaling your annoying bully in the skull with an axe or shoving a sword through their chest. We can't even do that now!

[James Comey]

(08-02-2013 02:30 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Nah. This is the only accurate portrayal of real life a school environment actually manages to create(though without the ability to take legal action)

It's a natural human development, though once upon a time it was stymied by simple actions like impaling your annoying bully in the skull with an axe or shoving a sword through their chest. We can't even do that now!

You're actually right about that. Seriously.

[brainiac3397]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. People think they do good by upsetting the balances of nature, by detracting, prohibiting, or otherwise interfering with the natural course. This leads to even more problems than should be.

I always hated it when people interrupted my arguments, detracting them and degrading them.\

I would argue with a friend over something you may consider trivial, and you'd stop our argument on the lines of "Wow, you're arguing over a small issue? Grow up!". That's the usual behavior, but all this manages to do is prove to me how much a fool the interrupter is. They're so narrow-minded and short-sighted, they fail to comprehend to real foundation of the arguement. If I argue with my sister over a piece of food, it's not because of the food, but it's because of the concept of equality and greed and my attempt to alleviate the situation(She eats her bar, I save me, I begin to eat mine, she tries to take even though she ate hers).

This only leads to having the process of argument cut short, and loose ends.

I'm always reminded of the stupidity and shortsightedness of my species...

[Lime]

Bullies are low on my list of problems. I realize it's a serious issue, and yet I cannot help but think that it gets over-represented in comparison to the other human rights violations problems in the "learning environment".

[brainiac3397]

We should look to the true criminals.

Bullies are the outcome, the symptom, not the cause. The true violators are those who have the power, and don't bother to use it. All this admin and teacher bull about "come tell us and we'll talk about it". Talk is good and peaceful, and can find suitable solutions to some problems, but when talking fails, the one in power must be willing to take action. Unfortunately, the quality of most admins is not that high, and they fail to take action and just hope the problem goes away.

[James Comey]

With the way the "education" system is structured, I don't see bullying ending soon. Stress and anxiety can lead to many messed up things, such as insecurity and lack of confidence.

[brainiac3397]

You could always agree with Voltaire:"Work spares us from three evils: boredom, vice, and need"

If students are truly busy, and not with just forced classwork, they'll at least be more concerned with other things. It won't eradicate bullies, but it'll make them easier to find I guess.

[Miab419]

Well, if a student were to actually learn, that would most likely require application at which case, would practically rewrite about half the system (actually using math and sciences for real problems with language arts at least minimally used). Application can only go so far before someone decides it is immoral and untraditional for children to be facing more lively problems.

[brainiac3397]

"Oh noe, little timmy is growing smarter than me and he's only 10! This is blasphemy!"

[James Comey]

What is the taboo about kids getting too smart while they're so young? The fact they'll rebel or anything? As they say, knowledge is power.

I really don't understand why adults all have to "shield" children from today's problems. Thankfully, I grew up around adults who encouraged the opposite of that and learn as much as I can. If kids keep being shielded, they can't learn about society and its problems. That only leads to more problems.

[Miab419]

Dude, I was like that until freakin high school... Although I never really cared back then, I'll probably think twice before explaining to my kid that the stork brings babies (although I wasn't THAT bad, just a tad slower than most other students...).
They say it has a negative effect on their psychologies or something... I honestly wouldn't know about that yet, but it sounds ridiculous; some people have known hell since teenage years while others don't even know what hell is.

[Miab419]

Hell as in symbolic terms

[James Comey]

It may be because of common beliefs that kids "can't handle 'real world' problems like adults can". I'm not so sure about that. Have any actual studies been done on this? Does it really negatively affect children that they are being taught economics or something?

[brainiac3397]

I find that some parents actually are fearful of their children being smarter, even if they behave otherwise. They become jealous of their own offspring, which is a visible form of lack of self-esteem and selfishness.

[Miab419]

I don't know, but there's always the argument about how kids are too immature to comprehend certain ideas.
Maybe because it's a sign of authority?

[James Comey]

Spot on. Most adults don't want to feel stupid because their children are smarter than them. They need to feel as the mentor, not being mentored!

@Miab: Partly true actually. Remember all the people laughing in sex ed class? However, I believe if children get a moderate exposure of "mature" issues (not necessarily sexual), I really say it's nothing harmful and should be tried.

[Miab419]

That always upsets me... That once you're out of school, you never have to learn anything ever again...

[brainiac3397]

Kids are only as immature as you make them out to be.

And hopefully as I remain wihin my senses, I intend to learn to death. Though going senile may put a dent here. Learning is easy, getting yourself to learn is the difficulty. Adults assume theyir done with learning due to how schools shape them when in fact thats not true.

[Lime]

Quote:Remember all the people laughing in sex ed class?

Perhaps the people I'm around are an exception but I don't remember any.

I wouldn't be surprised if parents wanted children to do amazing in school partly because it allows them to live through their kids and achieve what they didn't. It's rather similar to winning the blue ribbon with your dog at a contest-are you more happy for your dog, or yourself? Of course, you still must keep minors ignorant of the real world, lest they put up a logical argument whenever they are treated unfairly (although a simple "Shut up" or "Respect your elders" will usually override that).

[Miab419]

True... In a perfect world, the parent should have better logic than "shut up."

[brainiac3397]

I dont think the dog in a contest gives a crap about that blue ribbon

[James Comey]

Which is kinda like how we care about our grades. Not at all

[brainiac3397]

Yet our parents holding our leashes talk about how proud we are. Do they not see we're more interested in sniffing the other dog's ass?

[Just A Minor Threat]

One of my problems with this hierarchy is that is transcends into the teachers minds as well. A teacher of mine in grade 10 treated all the popular kids like they were the smartest motherfuckers on the planet. He even bought lunch for his favorites. There were times were he'd interrupt a lesson because a kid wanted to show him a "funny" video from their Facebook accounts on their smartphones (so much for "education" and "learning"). There were two students in the class with terrible attendance. I was one of them. I was late everyday and he always bitched at me about it, but the other kid got so much slack it was fucking insane. I remember this one time the both of us tried to get to class but the bell rang right before we got in. He was closer to the door so the teacher saw him. When the stupid anthem/prayer finished we both walked in (since we walked in at almost the same time, it's safe to assume I was right there). He marked the kid as here/on time and let him sit down. He marked me as late and lectured me on my attendance. He was a piece of shit. He flirted with all the girls too! If school's supposed to be about "learning" why does the teacher focus all his attention on: A. Reliving his high school days, B. Flirting the students he's supposed to be teaching and C. harassing those who did nothing wrong? Teachers have little to no respect for those of us who aren't a part of the "school elite" yet they always demand respect 'cause they're an authority.

[brainiac3397]

They think they have authority. In reality, they aren't that high on the authority pyramid.

[Just A Minor Threat]

They're only an authority because most students give them the authority. The students are too chickenshit to stand up for themselves.

[James Comey]

Ah, the good ol' "don't question authority cause authority is always right!". What if authority is treating me like a complete piece of crap, while goody smug snobby 2 shoes over there gets all the great treatment? Talk about social inequality in every day life, it exists in schools too!