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The School Survival Forums are permanently retired. If you need help with quitting school, unsupportive parents or anything else, there is a list of resources on the Help Page.

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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

-SoulRiser

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To Get Students Invested, Involve Them in Decisions Big and Small
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xcriteria Offline
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To Get Students Invested, Involve Them in Decisions Big and Small

To Get Students Invested, Involve Them in Decisions Big and Small
http://blogs.kqed.org/mindshift/2013/05/...and-small/

Quote:When asked why he became a scientist, Nobel Laureate Isidor Rabi attributed his success to his mother. Every day, she would ask him the same question about his school day: “Did you ask a good question today?”

“Asking good questions – made me become a scientist!” Rabi said.

Questions are critical, and how to manage and navigate a good question requires practice. “Coming up with the right question involves vigorously thinking through the problem, investigating it from various angles, turning closed questions into open-ended ones and prioritizing which are the most important questions to get at the heart of the matter,” say authors Dan Rothstein and Luz Santana in their book, Make Just One Change: Teach Students to Ask Their Own Questions.

The rest of the article is great, too. So, any questions? Smile

Peter Gray & allies launching the Alliance for Self-directed Education

ASDE Newsletters: #1 Announcement | #2 History of ASDE | #6 Education Liberation


School Survival & Catalyst Learning Network featured on AlternativestoSchool's blog
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Hidden stuff:
06-01-2013 10:47 AM
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no Offline
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To Get Students Invested, Involve Them in Decisions Big and Small

Yes. What do I do if I've become an apathetic bugger because my upbringing was the exact opposite of this?

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
06-03-2013 01:10 AM
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Trekkie_Aspie Offline
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RE: To Get Students Invested, Involve Them in Decisions Big and Small

Make small decisions?

If I seem rude to you, please call me on it gently.
One thing (among many others) school couldn't teach you.

((Google Asperger's Syndrome))

stupid article
06-03-2013 08:30 AM
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To Get Students Invested, Involve Them in Decisions Big and Small

I can't so much as choose whether to put mustard on my sandwiches.

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
06-03-2013 09:02 AM
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Trekkie_Aspie Offline
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RE: To Get Students Invested, Involve Them in Decisions Big and Small

You said sandwiches, as in plural. Can you see an easy solution?

If I seem rude to you, please call me on it gently.
One thing (among many others) school couldn't teach you.

((Google Asperger's Syndrome))

stupid article
06-03-2013 10:52 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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To Get Students Invested, Involve Them in Decisions Big and Small

(06-03-2013 01:10 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  Yes. What do I do if I've become an apathetic bugger because my upbringing was the exact opposite of this?

That's a very good question. I think a lot of people have that problem, and I've been giving it a lot of thought. I think this is a good topic to develop a guide for. The question basically overlaps with Desu's outline, a book for teens by former teens, Marty's situation, RE: So My Mom Threatened Me... and my own experience at multiple points in my life (and many other examples.)

One thing to consider is whether at least part of you wants to change, recover, and simply evolve. A lot of people don't even have that, or don't believe it's possible.

Next, look for things you have been or might be passionate about, or at least interested in, and try to give those things some attention. Ask questions, learn something, do something, build something.

All of that may be easier said than done if you're apathetic and finding motivation hard to come by. But setting those things as intentions can be a step out of that state.

Making sense of your past

Another technique I've found helpful is to reflect on your backstory and make sense of it somehow. Write, draw, make a timeline, somehow clarify the events of your life and what gave rise to what. Obviously, your experiences themselves are unique to you, but very often there are points of connection with other people's experience. Hence, sites like this one.

Making Sense of Your Past by Daniel Siegel, M.D.



Watch on YouTube

Decision conflict

I think difficulty with making decisions is a common result of not having much practice doing so growing up. Most of school and a lot of parenting is based on a "comply or defy" model, so it's a matter of doing what you're told or not, rather than learning to make your own, self-initiated decisions.

A key trope here is The Ditherer:

Quote:Decisions are odd things — as kids, we long for the freedom to make our own, but when confronted with one, many of us are inclined to panic. All but the most impulsive of us want time to make big decisions, and don't like being forced to make a shotgun choice. That's understandable — especially if the decision in question is life-changing (should I propose? Should I go to college? Should I move to a different country?) or irreversible (Do I sacrifice my life to save this person? Do I tell my child that they are adopted?) and especially if they are both.

But there are also people who struggle with all decisions. Don't ask them what they want for dinner unless you have an entire day free in your calendar. Don't make them pick which film you and your group are going to see, because by the time they've decided (reluctantly) which one to pick, the cinema will have moved on to different movies.

I've found myself in this position myself. One approach I've found helpful is actually to study decision-making. Another is to consider the broader context, backstory, possible future scenarios. Sometimes, the problem I have is a lack of energy or motivation, which is a bit different from experiencing active conflict between choices.

The power of imagination

By exercising your imagination, and integrating your memories of past decisions, it can become easier to anticipate how various decisions might turn out. Imagination and creativity are notoriously stamped out of people in factory model schools, and anti-inquiry based upbringing. So, it makes sense that part of recovery should involve creative recovery.

How Imagination Changes the Brain



Watch on YouTube


Inner resistance

In addition to looking for sources of inspiration, another thing to consider is inner resistance. Stephen Pressfield wrote about this psychological phenomenon, and many people have referenced it in ther discussions of creativity and life. Here's a podcast with text summary and resources on that topic:

http://michaelhyatt.com/044-how-to-overc...dcast.html

Creative recovery



Watch on YouTube

Does any of that strike a chord?
06-03-2013 05:54 PM
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Post: #7
To Get Students Invested, Involve Them in Decisions Big and Small

I know what I want to be/do, a writer or game programmer of some kind, as independent as physically possible and then some. The problems are:

1. defying standards of what I "should" do
2. due to my radical views, I run the risk of being woefully misinterpreted.

When I say I want to write, they make me study the writing of others instead of giving me time to practice my own work. I don't want to emulate the classics. I despise most popular authors' writing styles.

When I say I want to program, they put me in a goddamn animation class. I have no idea whose brilliant idea it was to make everyone interested in game development take an animation course, nor who thinks they can get away with trying to get everyone into the "big" companies. I couldn't work like that, I just want to learn how to use a programming language halfway decently, a goal to which everyone I meet seems to be opposed.

I have no large, uninterrupted blocks of time to work on these things at home, even with the summer coming next week. Nor do I have the courage to so much as leave a note suggesting the possibility of rearranging schedules. My parents have the crazy idea in their heads that I should go to Europe for two weeks. I despise traveling but they don't listen when I say it would be cheaper and happier for me to stay here. I am seriously afraid to try any "stronger" persuasion.

I'm afraid of most everything, really. Some people say I am paranoid. If there isn't an "obviously better" answer I can't choose and I have immense difficulty lying or throwing things away, which are the main things that people want me to choose, then they get on my back about not being able to choose.

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
06-04-2013 07:08 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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To Get Students Invested, Involve Them in Decisions Big and Small

It helps a lot to have an idea of what you want to do. It sounds like you don't have much support in your life for that, though.

Maybe there's a way to negotiate a plan that could get you on track with what you have in mind. What is it your parents want to see?

The way you explained things made me think of this trope:

[Image: 300px-Tribunal-s1-inset.jpg]
The Omniscient Council of Vagueness

Reading through your points, I came up with some questions:

- Who defines the standards of what you "should" do, and what are the standards?

- Who or what controls your schedule?

- Why can't you get uninterrupted time to work over the summer?

- Who are the "they" that put you in ill-fitting classes? People at your school?
(This post was last modified: 06-04-2013 02:19 PM by xcriteria.)
06-04-2013 02:19 PM
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Trekkie_Aspie Offline
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RE: To Get Students Invested, Involve Them in Decisions Big and Small

Do you know what you DON'T want to do? Perhaps process of elimination?

If I seem rude to you, please call me on it gently.
One thing (among many others) school couldn't teach you.

((Google Asperger's Syndrome))

stupid article
11-05-2013 05:44 AM
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