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Psychopaths
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тωιѕтє∂ Offline
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Post: #1
Psychopaths

Why do psychopaths want to cause harm to others? Why do they kill others?

Psychopaths are humans that don't feel any guilt, remorse, or anxiety when they do something wrong.

They know the difference between right and wrong, good and bad, yet they still want to hurt others for their own satisfaction.

Just because a person doesn't feel guilt, doesn't mean they have to be evil. That's just selfish and mean.

Don't psychopaths completely prove that humans ARE truly evil, they just have the feeling of guilt in the way of letting them harm others?

Twisted The Twisted Smiley Belongs To Twisted Twisted

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05-29-2013 10:35 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Psychopaths

(05-29-2013 10:35 AM)Twisted Wrote:  Why do psychopaths want to cause harm to others? Why do they kill others?

Psychopaths are humans that don't feel any guilt, remorse, or anxiety when they do something wrong.

They know the difference between right and wrong, good and bad, yet they still want to hurt others for their own satisfaction.

Just because a person doesn't feel guilt, doesn't mean they have to be evil. That's just selfish and mean.

Don't psychopaths completely prove that humans ARE truly evil, they just have the feeling of guilt in the way of letting them harm others?

True. Psychopaths do prove humans are evil, hence the reason they want to kill other humans as well. Are the psychopaths actually "crazy" or is everyone else crazy and attempt to make themselves feel better by titling someone else as crazy.

Not having guilt and being evil isn't selfish and mean. It just means they've surpassed the absurd standards we humans force themselves to follow.

If everyone was "psychopathic", there would be no psychopaths.

Aren't "non-psychopathic" humans also selfish, greedy, mean, do things for their own satisfaction? Simply possessing guilt or remorse doesn't change anything. At least a psychopath accepts the truth of their existence, rather than deny it. They accept that they're fucking insane and live in relative comfort knowing it.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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Post: #3
Psychopaths

What's considered right or wrong to a psychopath is different than what you consider to be right or wrong.
Guilt determines our decisions, in a way. Let's say that you're alone with a little kid, and she's really annoying. She won't shut up. And let's say that if you beat her up, she would shut up. (that's not really realistic but whatever). I wouldn't choose to beat her up because 1. I could get in trouble and 2. I might feel guilty afterwards. Now, a psychopath might choose to beat the girl up, because the 2 reasons I gave don't matter to them. Yes, they don't want to get in trouble, but often times psychopaths tend to act on impulse. As they are making the decision to beat her up, getting in trouble is not something they are concerned about. If they are smart, they may find a way to try to get out of trouble. Anyway, 2 doesn't matter to them because they don't feel guilt. They don't have any reasons not to beat up the girl, so they go ahead and do it. To them, it's just a solution to a problem. And they don't see anything wrong with it.

Just my opinion, idk Shrug
05-29-2013 11:10 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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RE: Psychopaths

(05-29-2013 11:10 AM)Dead Wrote:  What's considered right or wrong to a psychopath is different than what you consider to be right or wrong.
Guilt determines our decisions, in a way. Let's say that you're alone with a little kid, and she's really annoying. She won't shut up. And let's say that if you beat her up, she would shut up. (that's not really realistic but whatever). I wouldn't choose to beat her up because 1. I could get in trouble and 2. I might feel guilty afterwards. Now, a psychopath might choose to beat the girl up, because the 2 reasons I gave don't matter to them. Yes, they don't want to get in trouble, but often times psychopaths tend to act on impulse. As they are making the decision to beat her up, getting in trouble is not something they are concerned about. If they are smart, they may find a way to try to get out of trouble. Anyway, 2 doesn't matter to them because they don't feel guilt. They don't have any reasons not to beat up the girl, so they go ahead and do it. To them, it's just a solution to a problem. And they don't see anything wrong with it.

Just my opinion, idk Shrug

Because logically speaking there is nothing wrong with it. It's quite a simple solution to the problem. Someone bothers you by speaking too much, it makes total sense not to waste time doing anything other than socking them in mouth then adding a bit more hits to keep them "pre-occupied".

Course it's the ethical and moral aspect that basically differentiates them.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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Post: #5
RE: Psychopaths

Psychopaths are pretty cool Smile

I'd like to meet one. Knowing my luck, I already have. Knowing my luck I'm probably also on their hit list.

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RE: Psychopaths

(05-29-2013 10:56 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  
(05-29-2013 10:35 AM)Twisted Wrote:  Why do psychopaths want to cause harm to others? Why do they kill others?

Psychopaths are humans that don't feel any guilt, remorse, or anxiety when they do something wrong.

They know the difference between right and wrong, good and bad, yet they still want to hurt others for their own satisfaction.

Just because a person doesn't feel guilt, doesn't mean they have to be evil. That's just selfish and mean.

Don't psychopaths completely prove that humans ARE truly evil, they just have the feeling of guilt in the way of letting them harm others?

True. Psychopaths do prove humans are evil, hence the reason they want to kill other humans as well. Are the psychopaths actually "crazy" or is everyone else crazy and attempt to make themselves feel better by titling someone else as crazy.

Not having guilt and being evil isn't selfish and mean. It just means they've surpassed the absurd standards we humans force themselves to follow.

If everyone was "psychopathic", there would be no psychopaths.

Aren't "non-psychopathic" humans also selfish, greedy, mean, do things for their own satisfaction? Simply possessing guilt or remorse doesn't change anything. At least a psychopath accepts the truth of their existence, rather than deny it. They accept that they're fucking insane and live in relative comfort knowing it.

Good point. Let's just murder all humans, then.

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05-30-2013 08:21 AM
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Post: #7
Psychopaths

>psychopaths exist
>therefore, humanity deserves to die

MAKES SENSE TO ME.

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05-30-2013 12:37 PM
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Post: #8
RE: Psychopaths

(05-30-2013 08:21 AM)Twisted Wrote:  
(05-29-2013 10:56 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  
(05-29-2013 10:35 AM)Twisted Wrote:  Why do psychopaths want to cause harm to others? Why do they kill others?

Psychopaths are humans that don't feel any guilt, remorse, or anxiety when they do something wrong.

They know the difference between right and wrong, good and bad, yet they still want to hurt others for their own satisfaction.

Just because a person doesn't feel guilt, doesn't mean they have to be evil. That's just selfish and mean.

Don't psychopaths completely prove that humans ARE truly evil, they just have the feeling of guilt in the way of letting them harm others?

True. Psychopaths do prove humans are evil, hence the reason they want to kill other humans as well. Are the psychopaths actually "crazy" or is everyone else crazy and attempt to make themselves feel better by titling someone else as crazy.

Not having guilt and being evil isn't selfish and mean. It just means they've surpassed the absurd standards we humans force themselves to follow.

If everyone was "psychopathic", there would be no psychopaths.

Aren't "non-psychopathic" humans also selfish, greedy, mean, do things for their own satisfaction? Simply possessing guilt or remorse doesn't change anything. At least a psychopath accepts the truth of their existence, rather than deny it. They accept that they're fucking insane and live in relative comfort knowing it.

Good point. Let's just murder all humans, then.

Why not. It'd be simply like pressing a very big reset button. Maybe if we use devastating weapons of mass destruction, we can be sure that a few dozen generations will think twice before thinking of resorting to violence(after the initial violent stages during the "aftermath" stage).

Like a French diplomat in Germany said(and has been attributed to Stalin as well with some variation):Der Tod eines Menschen: das ist eine Katastrophe. Hunderttausend Tote: das ist eine Statistik!

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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Psychopaths

That's why we make it quick.

OR we make a brand new system or life, education, money, raising kids, etc. and kill all of the current human idiots. Smile

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Psychopaths

My ideal thought: Eradication of many sources of religion and history, only leaving or manufacturing what I want people to believe. Eradication of a significant portion of the human race, especially older folk. Revise cultural norms, societal "rules" and concentrate surviving groups into specific locations for better control.

"He who controls the past controls the future, and he who controls the present controls the past"

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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Psychopaths

What?

Twisted The Twisted Smiley Belongs To Twisted Twisted

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RE: Psychopaths

Just my psycopathic side speaking...

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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Post: #13
Psychopaths

Most humans generally want to be friendly and kind. I think most people actually enjoy helping others and being kind to them.

Some do not.

It's not just guilt stopping people from doing bad things. It's that doing good feels good, and doing bad feels bad. To some people it isn't like that, but that doesn't mean it's better or worse. Well, probably worse, because if you enjoy hurting people then it's a problem, because most people don't enjoy being hurt... so somewhere along the way someone's getting a bad deal.

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Psychopaths

No, humans are all blood suckers and we have to wipe them out for the good of MOTHER EARF because everybody is a psychopath.

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RE: Psychopaths

(06-01-2013 07:54 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  Most humans generally want to be friendly and kind. I think most people actually enjoy helping others and being kind to them.

Some do not.

It's not just guilt stopping people from doing bad things. It's that doing good feels good, and doing bad feels bad. To some people it isn't like that, but that doesn't mean it's better or worse. Well, probably worse, because if you enjoy hurting people then it's a problem, because most people don't enjoy being hurt... so somewhere along the way someone's getting a bad deal.

You could technically be a psychopath if you don't feel what you do is wrong, even if it is, though without being "addicted" to it. So they can still by a psychopath yet not have to enjoy the "bad" thing they do, yet not see anything wrong with it. Basically, they ignore emotional and moral aspects for pure logical reasoning.

If people want to be friendly and kind, I'm sure society screws them up. There are some cities where people are total a-holes, and other cities where everyone says "Hello" to whoever they pass by on the streets. Be they rich or poor. But I think humans are more inclined to be dickheads because just as how being complexly peaceful is harder than being simply violent, they find it easier to be rude rather than kind.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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RE: Psychopaths

You guys do realize the vast majority of psychopaths are non-violent right?

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RE: Psychopaths

(06-01-2013 08:43 PM)Absentinsomniac Wrote:  You guys do realize the vast majority of psychopaths are non-violent right?

Yep. They do need to be different from non-psycho humans, the real violent ones.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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RE: Psychopaths

(05-29-2013 10:35 AM)Twisted Wrote:  Why do psychopaths want to cause harm to others? Why do they kill others?

Psychopaths are humans that don't feel any guilt, remorse, or anxiety when they do something wrong.

They know the difference between right and wrong, good and bad, yet they still want to hurt others for their own satisfaction.

Just because a person doesn't feel guilt, doesn't mean they have to be evil. That's just selfish and mean.

Don't psychopaths completely prove that humans ARE truly evil, they just have the feeling of guilt in the way of letting them harm others?

You have to understand how wide the spectrum of anti-social personality disorder is. It's not about having no empathy, it's about being in control of empathy. But being in control of empathy is precisely what will make you free of the ordinary guilt (feeling guilty about wronging others)we experience.

Sociopath's have faulty empathy structure - a kind of learned control over their empathy, beyond a select few people. This can range from a law abiding social worker (who hates the government, but does the work she does to fight against injustice for the people she sympathizes with,) to a career criminal (who won't mind blowing your head off if it's for a job, but will abide by their mother's commands.) Psychopath's usually have a control of the part of their brain that deals in empathy to a very refined degree, and they may not give a fuck about anybody.

But that doesn't mean they grow up to become career criminals, or people who kill for the fuck of it American Psycho style. They may have no taste for destroying lives or even stringing people along for lulz beyond the normal throes of manipulation we all get into. They simply don't answer to anyone beyond themselves, and they have a self-esteem fully independent of us slaves to empathy. They can have guilt, but it has to be their construction. Think like a couple comic book super heroes - what motivates the hero isn't necessarily any external event but a very internalized rule book. They can feel guilt about violating their own rules, if they have it entrenched in their blood (after all they only give a shit about themselves.) But they won't feel anything if they violate your own dignity or prey on you if their rules agree with it.

It's shame they don't feel one fucking bit (as in, if they get caught jerking off, they probably won't recoil). That's why narcissists look up to sociopaths, not the other way around.

"If you think you know what the hell is going on, you're probably full of shit." - Robert Anton Wilson
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RE: Psychopaths

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(06-02-2013 05:48 AM)Ahab Wrote:  
(05-29-2013 10:35 AM)Twisted Wrote:  Why do psychopaths want to cause harm to others? Why do they kill others?

Psychopaths are humans that don't feel any guilt, remorse, or anxiety when they do something wrong.

They know the difference between right and wrong, good and bad, yet they still want to hurt others for their own satisfaction.

Just because a person doesn't feel guilt, doesn't mean they have to be evil. That's just selfish and mean.

Don't psychopaths completely prove that humans ARE truly evil, they just have the feeling of guilt in the way of letting them harm others?

You have to understand how wide the spectrum of anti-social personality disorder is. It's not about having no empathy, it's about being in control of empathy. But being in control of empathy is precisely what will make you free of the ordinary guilt (feeling guilty about wronging others)we experience.

Sociopath's have faulty empathy structure - a kind of learned control over their empathy, beyond a select few people. This can range from a law abiding social worker (who hates the government, but does the work she does to fight against injustice for the people she sympathizes with,) to a career criminal (who won't mind blowing your head off if it's for a job, but will abide by their mother's commands.) Psychopath's usually have a control of the part of their brain that deals in empathy to a very refined degree, and they may not give a fuck about anybody.

But that doesn't mean they grow up to become career criminals, or people who kill for the fuck of it American Psycho style. They may have no taste for destroying lives or even stringing people along for lulz beyond the normal throes of manipulation we all get into. They simply don't answer to anyone beyond themselves, and they have a self-esteem fully independent of us slaves to empathy. They can have guilt, but it has to be their construction. Think like a couple comic book super heroes - what motivates the hero isn't necessarily any external event but a very internalized rule book. They can feel guilt about violating their own rules, if they have it entrenched in their blood (after all they only give a shit about themselves.) But they won't feel anything if they violate your own dignity or prey on you if their rules agree with it.

It's shame they don't feel one fucking bit (as in, if they get caught jerking off, they probably won't recoil). That's why narcissists look up to sociopaths, not the other way around.

Upon reading this description, I believe I may be a psychopathScratchchin

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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Psychopaths

wtf

06-05-2013 01:00 AM
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Post: #21
Psychopaths

There's a lot to think about in all this, but one question is how people can actually grow and change. Remember, factory model schools and a lot of parenting treats people like zombies. What difference might a different learning environment make? What difference might the chance to find a passion, find mentors, find a community of support make for a given person?

There's also the question of choice, self-reflection, and mindfulness. These are abilities that can be learned, but very often aren't. The average person can be relatively mindless and still learn to get by in society (at least until their society or institutions themselves turns them into evil pawns in a game nobody controls.)

However, some people start out with genetic/neuro-developmental differences that are known as psychopathy. There's even some overlap here with ADHD traits. As one study concluded, "Children with ADHD show psychopathy traits but are not ‘ psychopaths’. Early adversity, indexed by pre- or perinatal adversity but not family factors, appears to be associated." (link)

What are the different ways a person with these differences might live their life, depending on factors in their environment like how their learning environments work?

What are the different ways a person with these differences might live their life, depending on how they come to view the world -- as a senseless dystopia, or a place in which they can learn, grow, and find a reason to live without hurting others?

Looking at the evidence

Neuroscientist Jim Fallon is an interesting example -- he did brain scans on his family, and discovered he has the same brain pattern often found in psychopaths:

NPR: A Neuroscientist Uncovers A Dark Secret

Jim Fallon says he had a terrific childhood; he was doted on by his parents and had loving relationships with his brothers and sisters and entire extended family. Significantly, he says this journey through his brain has changed the way he thinks about nature and nurture. He once believed that genes and brain function could determine everything about us. But now he thinks his childhood may have made all the difference.

Childhood is one thing, but what about the kind of schools a person goes to, or other life experiences? Despite a common perception that psychopathy can't be treated, some studies show that at least some people with psychopathic traits can change.

Surviving Psychopathy: Can psychopathy be successfully treated? (article)

Maastricht University: "Some psychopaths can be treated"
Hidden stuff:

The treatment is called schema therapy, an integrated form of psychotherapy specially designed to treat personality disorders and ‘treatment-resistant’ patients. What makes this method unique is that it focuses not on unchangeable character traits, but on the patient’s emotional state. It uses a package of special treatment techniques, ‘limited reparenting’ being the most important of these. In establishing a relationship with the patient, the therapist assumes a parenting role. “Psychopaths are often antisocial and emotionally detached. They don’t trust anyone and refuse to cooperate”, Bernstein explains. “To gain their trust, the therapist adopts a caring and compassionate role.” The goal is to break through this emotional detachment and draw patients into a more vulnerable position, making them ‘softer’.

The next step is to teach patients how to discuss their emotions. This is done using the language of ‘schema modes’. A schema mode is an emotional state (intimidating, aggressive, manipulative) that can take over a patient temporarily and play an important role in violent behaviour. “Our hypothesis is that behind these extreme emotional schemas lies a more vulnerable side. That’s the key to accessing strong emotions. Many patients were abused or mistreated as children. The goal is to help heal these earlier wounds.” Further, the patient’s capacity for self-reflection is increased, and they learn to better control their frustrations and impulsive behaviours. “In short, schema therapy strives to transform a patient’s personality by changing their schema modes.”


Can empathy be learned?

Few people ask how people's lives might be different if they had different educational experiences, meaningful life experiences, or moments of self-discovery. As Ken Robinson points out, many people go through their lives without ever discovering their passions. How many people see life as a miserable dystopia, or other people as generally horrible? How many people never learn various kinds of self-control, relatedness, or what Dan Siegel calls Mindsight, beyond whatever they happen to develop due to genes and an often hostile, uncaring, factory model world?

Recent programs show that empathy and relatedness can actually be learned. This point applies just as much to helping everybody lead fuller, richer lives as it does to "treating psychopathy."

Nikhil Goyal: Schools need to create human beings and citizens who are empathetic

This American Life Back to School (1 hour audio program)
Paul Tough discusses how “non-cognitive skills” — qualities like tenacity, resilience, impulse control — are being viewed as increasingly vital in education, and Ira speaks with economist James Heckman, who’s been at the center of this research and this shift.

And hence, another wall of content. But why aren't questions like these discussed and explored within what people call "education?" I get a lot of flak for steering every conversation back around to the question of education, but how might things be different if education treated people as people, and helped them develop their potential? Instead, grades, compliance, and waiting for adulthood for life to begin are the main order of business.
06-05-2013 01:40 PM
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xcriteria Offline
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Post: #22
Psychopaths

Another point Twisted raised is the question of humanity in general.

Philip Zimbardo's infamous Stanford Prison Experiment is one point of reference to consider there. In this talk, he explains the experiment, Stanley Milgram's "Obedience to Authority" experiment, and the relation of those to other instances of inhumanity. In these cases, people succumbed to their assigned roles and acted in inhumane ways as a result.



Watch on YouTube

Does that mean human nature is doomed to come down to that? I personally think not. People can learn to ask questions, question authority, learn about themselves and their world, and consider the *why* behind things. Factory model schools don't tend to encourage any of that, just "ask no questions" compliance.

This is yet another reason why education needs to change, and it's everyone's responsibility to take their education and learning into their own hands, to whatever extent possible.
06-05-2013 01:49 PM
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