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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

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Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

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The learning lab pack givers
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Trekkie_Aspie Offline
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Lightbulb The learning lab pack givers

So, the idea is that someone who wants to learn, wanders in here and states that they want to learn x, y and z or a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i and j or whatever. The rest of us respond with throwing links at one another and discussing said links. After throwing links and comments and whatever else all over the place, this is refined into a more presentable format which is then sent over to the requester (via pm or email?), all in one neat learning bundle!

I don't know how well it will work but let's give it a try shall we?

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05-16-2013 03:38 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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The learning lab pack givers

Lets try a test then?: I want to learn Latin.[As an example and because I want to learn Latin.)

So now I'm guessing people will post links that help with learning, describe the links then discuss best ones, then send them to the requester(which would be me).

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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The learning lab pack givers

^ GOOGLE TRANSLATE

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
05-16-2013 05:23 AM
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The learning lab pack givers

You can't learn latin from google translate. You could learn to be a wannabe speaker, but pretty sure google translate is a last ditch thing for ANY language.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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xcriteria Offline
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The learning lab pack givers

Follow Laura Gibbs on G+ (or look through her stream) and check out her Latin blog. She makes a constant stream of Latin-based memes.

Also check out Justin Schwamm's Tres Columnae Project, a story-based approach to learning and using Latin. The idea of this site is to transform how Latin is learned form the traditional textbook focus to a form where people collaboratively read and write stories. He also has a blog, Joyful Latin Learning, that's actually more about questioning and changing education than Latin itself.

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RE: The learning lab pack givers

Yes, brainac, that would be the general idea.

I have my vocab - mainly for latin roots.

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05-16-2013 07:10 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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The learning lab pack givers

Or Nuntii Latini radio from Finland.
Or Wheelock's Latin

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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05-16-2013 07:24 AM
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RE: The learning lab pack givers

So our potential resources are:

Google Translate

Laura Gibbs on G+

Laura Gibbs' Latin Blog

Tres Columna Project

Joyful Latin Learning

My Vocab


Wheelock's Latin Exercises

Latin for beginners

Wheelock's latin - youtube

Latin Reader Part I

Latin Reader - Part II

Easy stories

Standard Latin equivalent to Spot the Dog from what I can tell

The bible!

Fluency

Pronounciation

Complicated Reading

wikihow article - how to learn latin on your own

Nova Roma

Textkit -Ancient Greek and Latin

Quasillium - The Latin Study List

Cambridge School Classics Project

Latin for mountain men

Latin online

UK National Archives Latin

Phrases to add on the end of emails, letters, etc

Latin-English dictionary/phrasebook

Grammar terms

Interactive Latin

Latin - English dictionary

Nuntii Latin

Wheelock's Latin

Speak with others

Course hero - online learning



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Go discuss!

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(This post was last modified: 05-16-2013 09:00 AM by Trekkie_Aspie.)
05-16-2013 07:44 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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The learning lab pack givers

I think a good next step would be to organize these links, maybe even visually represent them or write descriptions of how they're used, how much time they take, and so on.

One of the biggest problems with giant lists of resources is it can be hard to figure out what strategy to use to dig through all of them in a meaningful way. Learning things in depth, especially a language, requires a certain amount of diving in and engaging with some kind of material. But that, in turn, requires ignoring everything else for a while.

So, some kind of strategy or plan might be worth developing. In order to do that, one question is how much time you plan to spend, say daily or weekly. Another question is whether there are any general principles or guides for learning foreign languages in general.

One approach is to find others who want to learn the language and practice with them. Livemocha is one site that helps people do that.

Another option (though it costs $279) is Rosetta Stone Latin. There's a free demo at http://www.rosettastone.com/demo

In terms of general language-learning material, this podcast series from David Mansaray is worth checking out, Polyglot Project. It features interviews with language experts. http://www.davidmansaray.com/polyglot-project-podcast

Here's David's critical review of Rosetta Stone. He has a bunch of other videos on independent learning and language learning as well. Personally I think an even more important question is whether it's worth spending time learning via the Rosetta Stone process, or if there's some other way. I've used the program some in the past, but never stuck with it for very long. Anyone else have experience with it or language learning?



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Trekkie_Aspie Offline
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RE: The learning lab pack givers

Do you think you could do the organisations if I find the info for you, xcriteria? Or at least some of them, as an example of what to do with them? From looking at them, Wheellock's Latin reckons a lesson a week. As for learning foreign languages in general, I'm not much help with speaking them but if you want to read or write them - try looking up their etymology - lots of Latin, Greek and French have got smuggled into English that way.

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(This post was last modified: 05-16-2013 08:21 AM by Trekkie_Aspie.)
05-16-2013 08:18 AM
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RE: The learning lab pack givers

Brainac is Project #000001

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05-16-2013 08:27 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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RE: The learning lab pack givers

(05-16-2013 08:18 AM)Trekkie_Aspie Wrote:  Do you think you could do the organisations if I find the info for you, xcriteria? Or at least some of them, as an example of what to do with them? From looking at them, Wheellock's Latin reckons a lesson a week.

I can try. I'm not sure what format would be best, exactly. One way to think about it is to make a Personal Learning Plan that covers multiple subjects that a person wants to learn. More or less, a learning pack would kind of be the content for the plan.

This article from UnCollege has a good summary of the process of going from a plan to carrying it out:

How to Learn Anything
http://www.uncollege.org/how-to-learn-anything/

And here are some related links from P2PU:

1. Write a Personal Learning Plan
https://p2pu.org/en/groups/diy-u-getting...ning-plan/

2. Example learning plans
https://p2pu.org/en/groups/diy-u-getting...plan-here/

3. Build Your Personal Learning Network
https://p2pu.org/en/groups/diy-u-getting...g-network/

(05-16-2013 08:18 AM)Trekkie_Aspie Wrote:  As for learning foreign languages in general, I'm not much help with speaking them but if you want to read or write them - try looking up their etymology - lots of Latin, Greek and French have got smuggled into English that way.

Yeah, studying etymology is a great place to start with those languages. I'm not fluent in any foreign language, but I've been learning quite a bit of Spanish working on a translating and subtitling gig of video footage. Sometimes having a project or other situation that motivates looking up the words can help push things along motivationally.

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Trekkie_Aspie Offline
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RE: The learning lab pack givers

Please try then. I'm going to bed though - night - I shall leave this in your surely-capable hands for now.

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05-16-2013 09:47 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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The learning lab pack givers

I think I need more information to figure out how to do the job.

Brainiac, what else do you want to learn, and roughly how much time per day or week might you want to spend "learning?" I think a good learning plan would take those things into account.

Also, have you tried learning languages before? What approaches have worked for you with learning in general? How do you like to learn?

Finally, some kind of accountability or feedback system might make a good part of any learning pack. Nothing like a traditional grade, but some way to demonstrate learning, motivate further progress, and get a sense of how well you're doing. How might that be done? (Accredible might work well for that, maybe combined with posting updates to a blog or forum thread.)

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RE: The learning lab pack givers

Brainac says that "I think 1-2 hour would be the minimum per day, excluding friday/saturday/sunday(I may have more time, or I may have none on these days)

I second accredible. This is rapidly developing into "Tell us what you want to learn, we'll give you tailored homework." Excellent,my plans are developing nicely.

I think we need a form for Case #000002 though.

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05-16-2013 05:03 PM
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RE: The learning lab pack givers

Brainac:

"Well, I'm also studying C++ programming at the moment, well I "re-began" today from the start.

I intend to spend between 1-3 hours of my day learning. I've actually gone over Latin, very lightly that is(just a skim over the surface to see what I probably need to learn). In general, my learning of language starts from learning the alphabet and pronunciation, then the vocab. This will help me start reading(since reading is my strongest skill), from there I enter grammar.

I usually like to learn through reading, supplemented with video/audio. I rarely enjoy interaction and usually shun it(I have a long and terrible history with homework, rarely ever doing it). Reading and taking notes is usually enough, but languages have pronunciations which need audio to learn and grammar, which videos can help with."

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05-17-2013 05:01 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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The learning lab pack givers

I looked through the Latin resources more. I guess it's worth just exploring them a bit. I recommend checking out Tres Columnae and see what you think of it. There are some various explanations of what it's about on the site. The first story starts at http://tconline.trescolumnae.com/index.p...primaprima -- and by listening and clicking through subsequent pages, a story builds up.

TC is still being developed, but I think the underlying concept of learning about a story with characters can help make learning more meaningful than memorizing words alone. Of course, studying words themselves and all that can be useful as well.

Another resource I forgot to mention is Operation LAPIS, an alternate reality game approach to learning Latin. The catch with this is that it costs $40/month and it's a 2-year program. Still, it doesn't hurt to check it out. I think game-based learning like this could be adapted to a variety of topics. Maybe even making an ARG could be part of the learning process for various subjects!

Operation LAPIS is a two-year introductory curriculum in Roman civilization and the Latin language in the form of mission to save the world by learning how to find and read a crucial inscription. As a member of a team of operatives controlling young Romans in a text-based simulation of the ancient world, you will need to gain the skills that will let you locate and analyze the LAPIS SAECULORUM: the stone of the ages.

More details: http://www.practomime.com/lapis/lapis_online.php

The creators of Operation LAPIS, Roger Travis and his team at The Pericles Group, are big advocates of game-based and story-based learning in general, as is Justin Schwamm. I've interacted with both of them on G+, and when it comes to changing education in general, these approaches could really revolutionize learning. Justin wrote about how Operation LAPIS and Trescolumnae differ on his blog at Joyful Latin Learning: Celebrating Success, II:

Quote: The folks at LAPIS say they’re building a role-playing game “wrapped in” an alternate-reality game. Communities form in those kinds of games, but they’re a result and a tool, not a goal. Participants “play” the narrative, but the narrative itself is controlled by someone else. I’d call that an untextbook.

The Tres Columnae Project begins as a learning community – a community playing and creating a story game together. Within the overall arc of that story, members add their own characters, their own situations, their own narratives large or small. Ownership and control of the narrative belong to them as much as to me! I’d call that an antitextbook.

Does any of that sound interesting?

I think that in general, this packet thing is going to require some interaction between the learners and whoever else is helping to put things together, some iterative feedback and so on. Do any of the other above resources seem in line with how you see yourself learning?

learning journals

Another thing to try is to have people record daily journals of what they engage with, and somehow share those. Maybe on a blog, for example, or on a real-time document collaboration platform like Rizzoma.

One advantage of a learning journal is that it can provide a record of what you actually do, even if you go off-plan, find some new resource, or get fed up with things. That can provide feedback for you or others to see what kind of changes might be useful. And documenting your progress can serve all kinds of roles.

Thoughts?

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RE: The learning lab pack givers

So, now we just need to polish it.

For the accountability side, accredible and a daily blog should do it, right?

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The learning lab pack givers

Yeah, that sounds good. Video journals or even notes on paper can be useful, too.

Skype or Hangouts can also be useful as well to actually "check in" and discuss roadblocks and so on.

Accredible is a bit more for documenting highlights than accountability, but ideally there would be highlights on a regular basis. I'm thinking of how I can use accredible or other means to document all my wasted time in school, including with some of my bad report cards.

Maybe we could find out how many people would be interested in checking in on learning on a regular basis. I've been putting a lot of my casual learning and learning conversations into Rizzoma, which is a collaborative document editing/discussion site kind of like Google Docs mixed with forum threads. It's easy to login with Google or Facebook.

I started this Riz document based on this thread: https://rizzoma.com/topic/bc4068d4c19fa9...6v8_3snhm/

and this one for the Latin resources;
https://rizzoma.com/topic/955f1103f0b17c...6v7_3snls/

There's a little bit of a learning curve but basically multiple people can add comments and co-edit a document, and it's easy to incorporate images and videos and add nested comments. Feel free to give it a try.

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RE: The learning lab pack givers

(05-16-2013 08:14 AM)xcriteria Wrote:  I think a good next step would be to organize these links, maybe even visually represent them or write descriptions of how they're used, how much time they take, and so on.

One of the biggest problems with giant lists of resources is it can be hard to figure out what strategy to use to dig through all of them in a meaningful way. Learning things in depth, especially a language, requires a certain amount of diving in and engaging with some kind of material. But that, in turn, requires ignoring everything else for a while.

So, some kind of strategy or plan might be worth developing. In order to do that, one question is how much time you plan to spend, say daily or weekly. Another question is whether there are any general principles or guides for learning foreign languages in general.

One approach is to find others who want to learn the language and practice with them. Livemocha is one site that helps people do that.

Another option (though it costs $279) is Rosetta Stone Latin. There's a free demo at http://www.rosettastone.com/demo

In terms of general language-learning material, this podcast series from David Mansaray is worth checking out, Polyglot Project. It features interviews with language experts. http://www.davidmansaray.com/polyglot-project-podcast

Here's David's critical review of Rosetta Stone. He has a bunch of other videos on independent learning and language learning as well. Personally I think an even more important question is whether it's worth spending time learning via the Rosetta Stone process, or if there's some other way. I've used the program some in the past, but never stuck with it for very long. Anyone else have experience with it or language learning?



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livemocha is not available anymore, try https://www.lingq.com/
06-18-2017 01:28 AM
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The learning lab pack givers

Duolingo is free and an awesome language learning site/app.
I'm currently learning, Spanish and Esperanto.
https://www.duolingo.com/

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