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Communism
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Alistoriv Offline
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Post: #1
Communism

A lot of you seem to be communists, and I don't want to read a bunch of shit to find out what you guys think. So, quick rundown of modern communist views?

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(03-20-2013 05:08 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Stand up with pride and say "No! I will not be a McDonalds employee. I WILL BE A GARBAGE MAN!"

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05-05-2013 06:46 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #2
Communism

I was a communist.

Now I'm just a defender of radical beliefs. Be it fascism, communism or anarchism. Perhaps till people get smarter and stop believing what the TV tells them and go out learn it on their own. It's easy to source hearsay, especially from what one considers a "reputable" source(which doesn't exist in a Corporatocratic nation).

Basically when people stop believing those annoying Sunday morning vitamin cure-all pills and meds, is when they're ready.

EDIT:I'll post my views on communism later, perhaps sometime after another posts their own.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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05-05-2013 12:25 PM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #3
Communism

it's basically the idea of equal standard of living for everyone, regardless of their level of contribution, right?

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Socialism
05-05-2013 07:01 PM
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..V.. Offline
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Post: #4
Communism

Aren't teachers and police officers fascists? I thought you didn't like teachers.

05-09-2013 11:17 PM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #5
Communism

-_-

Occupation has nothing to do with ideology.

EDIT:Didn't I previously post here. It feels like some of my posts have disappeared here and there, or my memory just fails me.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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05-10-2013 06:07 AM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #6
Communism

True communism is an utterly unrealizable goal. I have no problems with that itself because it sounds great, but the fact that people try to reach an unattainable goal through oppression (or societal collapse) is what irks me.

It is estimated that one hundred thousand people, when the USSR was still standing, died at the hands of an evil government run by those who sabotaged the communist dream in favor of power. People like this are the only thing socialistic practitioners of communism can become, and that is what we know communists as because that's all communists have ever been - people that crave the creation of a ruling class to subjugate the masses, raise taxes to extreme proportions, and deny basic human rights to the proletariats they would have originally sworn to defend.

North Korea is really more fascist than anything, today, but everything their government does - brainwashing the people into believing they live in a prosperous nation (almost as bad as public school brainwashing), speaking out against the U.S. as though they are in the moral right, and threatening to rule the world - they do in the name of communism. This is the true face of communism; people who actively seek utopia are power-crazed by the search. This utopia does not exist: there is no stateless, classless, moneyless, prejudiceless, badnessless society on this earth.

Many communists are well-meaning. That doesn't change the fact that they are wrong.

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05-10-2013 07:51 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #7
Communism

There are other communist examples that turned out well.

Cuba isn't a horrible place in reality. Sure there's some animosity in the USA against Cuba, but Cuba didn't turn out to be like the USSR.(Castro). Not to mention communism there gained a foothold due to the fact the US-supported dictator Batista was not a very kind man.

Yugoslavia was also not a terrible place. They even prohibited any pro-stalinism within their nation. They even believed that each nation should be able to choose how they "developed" their communism/socialism and that they could be indepedent from one another(opposing Stalin's Socialism in One Country. This was by Tito)

Vietnam underwent a series of economic reforms that improved it's economy enough to bring it into the WTO and also have it ranked in having a fast growing economy. There are still certain issues they need to deal with, but it's one of the few communist countries still in existence.(Ho Chi Minh, though Nguyen Van Linh introduced new reforms)

We all obviously know about China and it's growing strength.(Mao Ze Dong, though Deng Xiaoping influenced market reforms)

And there's Laos, but nothing fancy happening there.

And some farther out examples(such as anarcho-communists) would be the Free Territory and Anarchist Catalonia.

True democracy is also unattainable. That doesn't mean we totally abandon the idea. The entire point of political philosophy is to develop an idea, and work on it till the right "balance" is found. The USA isn't even a democracy, but a constitutional republic. China isn't totally communist as they've introduced a slightly "free-er" market. They both stuck to the ideas of democracy(former) and communism(latter), but balanced the "equation" by mixing in other ideas and systems.

And just to point out that North Korea isn't communist, but Juche. I don't think it has any connection to the Marxist branch, though they may have borrowed some ideas. The media claims otherwise but we all know the media isn't intent on 100% truth and accuracy.

If you claim this to be the true face of Communism, then perhaps I should claim the terrors of the French Revolution as the true face of Democracy.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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05-10-2013 09:31 AM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #8
Communism

^so if you think NK isn't communist, how the fuck is cuba more communist than NK? if you cut this double-standard bullshit you'd see the freaking pattern that less economic freedom almost always lead to poverty.

The great leap forward in china, which included the adoption of the communist economic system, destroyed its economy and killed about 30 mil people through starvation because farmers stopped giving a fuck about the yield of what is no longer their land, they planted around the sides of the field to trick the inspectors into thinking that they've done their work. certain villages illegally reverted back to the old capitalist policy and increase production by multitudes. ownership in a capitalist economy motivates people more than anything in a communist economy. it motivates people to put in more effort than their competitors, communism doesn't.

Quote:If you claim this to be the true face of Communism, then perhaps I should claim the terrors of the French Revolution as the true face of Democracy.

forget democracy, we're talking about communism vs capitalism. and there is no true face of communism because it's never been successfully and fully implemented but we can look at the patterns around the world in the relationship between economic freedom and prosperity, and imagine the amount of motivation people would have in a true communist economy, where there is absolutely no hope of working for a better standard of living than you already have. (unless if you kill half the population double your share of resources or something.)
05-10-2013 10:53 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Communism

I'm not personally claiming NK is not communist. You do realize North Korea itself has removed the title of communism from their nation. And I'm seeing assumptions being used to connect things that aren't connected, as I never said Cuba is more communist than NK ANYWHERE. Each "paragraph" is an independent statement.

And more economic freedom doesn't change anything either. How well do you think a completely free market would work? Again with those with claims to riches growing increasing in size while leaving those unlucky to have gotten ahead stuck where they are.

Not to mention poverty isn't simply related to economy, but to politics and government. An economically free and powerful nation can still have a high level of poverty(take India for example).

And to clarify my main point:

Quote:True democracy is also unattainable. That doesn't mean we totally abandon the idea. The entire point of political philosophy is to develop an idea, and work on it till the right "balance" is found. The USA isn't even a democracy, but a constitutional republic. China isn't totally communist as they've introduced a slightly "free-er" market. They both stuck to the ideas of democracy(former) and communism(latter), but balanced the "equation" by mixing in other ideas and systems.
(You substitute political for economical and get same results)

And this thread isn't the communism vs capitalism one by the way. Might want to take a look at the OP.

Politics and Economy are intertwined. You can't come up with a perfect "economical" solution since you can't have a perfect "political" one. What you can have is a mixture that works best, so politically left yet economically right, or vice-versa.

And that's what Communism is. It's a scale that sticks to the left politically, but can vary between left/right economically depending on the exact form adopted by that country.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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05-10-2013 11:20 AM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #10
Communism

Quote:I'm not personally claiming NK is not communist.

Quote:And just to point out that North Korea isn't communist

Quote:as I never said Cuba is more communist than NK ANYWHERE.

Quote:There are other communist examples that turned out well.

Cuba isn't a horrible place in reality.

i'm just wondering what is it about their economic structures that makes you think it's cool to call Cuba communist but not NK. because you listed cuba as an example of a communist country and went on to say that Nk isn't communist...

Quote:Not to mention poverty isn't simply related to economy, but to politics and government. An economically free and powerful nation can still have a high level of poverty(take India for example).

that doesn't dispute anything i said...

Quote:True democracy is also unattainable. That doesn't mean we totally abandon the idea.

Quote:And that's what Communism is. It's a scale that sticks to the left politically, but can vary between left/right economically depending on the exact form adopted by that country.

1. yes we do. we abandon the idea of "true democracy" and adopt a representative democracy. 2. communism is a much more restrictive term than democracy. socialism for example is at least as similar to communism, as true democracy is to representative democracy, but it uses a different word. so "communism" is a very specific thing. it requires specifically "Wealth redistributed so that everyone in society is given equal shares of the benefits derived from labor."

Quote:And this thread isn't the communism vs capitalism one by the way. Might want to take a look at the OP.

it is a communism vs capitalism thread in the sense that we're describing communism to the OP, a person living in an alternative, capitalist system.
05-10-2013 03:35 PM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #11
Communism

Quote:The establishment of the Songun doctrine in the mid-1990s, however, has formally designated the military, not the proletariat or working class, as the main revolutionary force in North Korea.
http://www.freemediaproductions.info/Edi...-leninism/

And it does dispute because:
Quote: if you cut this double-standard bullshit you'd see the freaking pattern that less economic freedom almost always lead to poverty.

And simply because we're describing communism to the OP, doesn't limit the discussion to only comparing it against capitalism. Like you say, Communism is a very specific thing because it's not just a economical philosophy but also politcal and social. Capitalism isn't political nor is it social, as it's simply an economical idea. We can't disregard the politics of Communism just to compare it to another idea.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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05-10-2013 10:27 PM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #12
Communism

I never thought I'd say this, but...YOU TELL HIM, POTATO!

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05-11-2013 12:14 PM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Communism

(05-11-2013 12:14 PM)DoA Wrote:  I never thought I'd say this, but...YOU TELL HIM, POTATO!

That's it. I'm sticking you in a Siberian gulag for re-education, you imperialist swine! Mwahaha


I wonder if Alistoriv has any opinions as of yet...

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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05-11-2013 12:20 PM
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Alistoriv Offline
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Post: #14
Communism

I haven't been checking up on this thread. I'll have to read it when I have more time.

RIP GORE GOROTH
RIP SAINTVICIOUS
(03-20-2013 05:08 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Stand up with pride and say "No! I will not be a McDonalds employee. I WILL BE A GARBAGE MAN!"

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05-14-2013 01:23 PM
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Smudge Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Communism

Ok so half of this thread is already an argument but communism = stateless, classless society. I guess you could look at the Twin Oaks commune for it in action, but it's not a 100% perfect example, but I would count myself as a communist, or anarcho-communist.
05-14-2013 09:56 PM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #16
Communism

"True" communism is a stateless, classless, moneyless society - the reality of it is that it can't exist on Earth (though that's technically how heaven works).

Practiced communism is an oppressive, regressive, obsessive state looming over the populace for the gain of a ruling class - the ultimate bourgeoisie that they have pretended to fight so hard against. All communists can say is that practiced communism is not the reality of true communism.

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05-15-2013 06:27 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #17
Communism

The Free State of Ukraine was pretty peaceful and worked(Anarcho-Communist). Course the USSR steamrolled them(the Bolsheviks steamrolled them) in about 2-3 years of their start.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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05-15-2013 10:33 AM
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Smudge Offline
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RE: Communism

But what else is there to say DoA? What is popularly referred to as communism isn't actually communism. The communes around the world and the free states mentioned in this thread are communism.
05-15-2013 01:58 PM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #19
Communism

Sure, the USSR was the biggest "communist" regime and probably the worst example of it, but that isn't the core of Communism(especially since Stalin believed every nation should be under one communist state, rather than the original belief that Communism should exist internationally but independent of one another, so communists in different nations rather than communists under one)

It's like using Hitler and his Third Reich as an example of why nationalism is terrible, or the French Revolution of an example of why democracy is violent(the Reign of Terror).

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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05-16-2013 05:27 AM
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