Can your parents even come up with a good reason for public schooling?

[AwesomeOpossum]

I've been trying to convince my parents to let me try online schooling and then go to public school for my senior year, but they always say, "Let's wait and see how this year goes," or, " Public schooling is important," but do they actually know WHY public schooling is more important? I asked and the only answers I got were, "When you go to college you will appreciate it more because you hated other schools so much," or, "Colleges like it when you go to a public school," and," You will, um, experience...more...things...that you will never forget...?" After all of the crap I go through just because of school, I'd think that my parents would be more open to alternative, but they aren't. So I have a challenge for all of you, ask your parent if they can think of a good reason why public schooling is better than other methods and see what they say.

[Dead]

Dad: "You have to go to public school because it prepares you to deal with the retarded assholes you'll need to get along with as an adult."
Mom: "Public school is free."

[AwesomeOpossum]

(04-19-2013 10:11 AM)Dead Wrote:  Dad: "You have to go to public school because it prepares you to deal with the retarded assholes you'll need to get along with as an adult."
Mom: "Public school is free."

I think most everyone is well experienced being prepared to be around assholes by the time that they escape middle school and a lot of online schools are free.

[Lime]

Tradition, brainwashing, and if they're a first generation immigrant, perhaps something like "Oh you're so lucky you get these educational opportunities that I never got blarh blagh blah".

If you ask a teacher, the response you receive will probably more or less say:

1. You're young and stupid and you don't know anything yet.
2. I'm an adult, you're a tiny little bastard, you have no right to question me.
3. I'm not going to discuss this in class.
4. You need to learn (lolwhut?).
5. (In the event you counter these) Ok, we can talk about this all day, but I'm not going to so shut up and do your work like a good little slave even though I can't prove why this would be helpful.

[brainiac3397]

Ugh. First generation immigrant is the worst. Such parents practically pressure you for your entire life on how you should learn and go to good schools for the opportunities. Unfortunately, they also refuse any sort of creativity or innovation that is contrary to the mainstream of that new society they've immigrated to, which means any other plans except for following that horrendously boring life cycle that most of humanity does.

[SoulRiser]

So I posted a link to SS somewhere, and this is what one guy replied:

Quote: I remember feeling that way. Something to keep in mind is that the most important thing that we learn in school is "how to learn". Took me a while to realize that.

... how do I even respond to something like that?

[Lime]

Why, you just make all the libraries, websites, and Wikipedia articles I've visited independently very, very sad.

[brainiac3397]

I always thought learning was an inherent trait common among humans and actively suppressed by society(such as schools).

[Lime]

Quote:I always thought learning was an inherent trait common among humans

Of course. A child who could not learn in prehistoric times was doomed to die early.

[brainiac3397]

(04-20-2013 01:00 PM)Lime Wrote:  

Quote:I always thought learning was an inherent trait common among humans

Of course. A child who could not learn in prehistoric times was doomed to die early.

Which thus contradicts the common assumption that school is the only way one will obtain knowledge(or even "learn").

[AwesomeOpossum]

If schools didn't exist or most kids were truant, they (meaning the children) would learn more valuable lessons, like how to live in our modern day world.

[Reflect]

Only thing she ever said to me was ''Don't you even think about it''. I've asked my mom so many times why, and she did not answer, and I can't do anything without her permission...She denies other possibilities, which annoys me.

[up all night got demons to fight]

(04-19-2013 08:38 AM)AwesomeOpossum Wrote:  I've been trying to convince my parents to let me try online schooling and then go to public school for my senior year, but they always say, "Let's wait and see how this year goes," or, " Public schooling is important," but do they actually know WHY public schooling is more important? I asked and the only answers I got were, "When you go to college you will appreciate it more because you hated other schools so much," or, "Colleges like it when you go to a public school," and," You will, um, experience...more...things...that you will never forget...?" After all of the crap I go through just because of school, I'd think that my parents would be more open to alternative, but they aren't. So I have a challenge for all of you, ask your parent if they can think of a good reason why public schooling is better than other methods and see what they say.

My parents say that it is important to support the education system as some people can't afford other options and have to work so they need to send their kids somewhere. They say that by taking kids out of the system there is less funding for those who can't afford the alternatives and so they get worse education.

[AwesomeOpossum]

(04-26-2013 12:40 AM)up all night got demons to fight Wrote:  

(04-19-2013 08:38 AM)AwesomeOpossum Wrote:  I've been trying to convince my parents to let me try online schooling and then go to public school for my senior year, but they always say, "Let's wait and see how this year goes," or, " Public schooling is important," but do they actually know WHY public schooling is more important? I asked and the only answers I got were, "When you go to college you will appreciate it more because you hated other schools so much," or, "Colleges like it when you go to a public school," and," You will, um, experience...more...things...that you will never forget...?" After all of the crap I go through just because of school, I'd think that my parents would be more open to alternative, but they aren't. So I have a challenge for all of you, ask your parent if they can think of a good reason why public schooling is better than other methods and see what they say.

My parents say that it is important to support the education system as some people can't afford other options and have to work so they need to send their kids somewhere. They say that by taking kids out of the system there is less funding for those who can't afford the alternatives and so they get worse education.

Well, that's the best reason that I've ever heard!

[xcriteria]

(04-19-2013 12:56 PM)AwesomeOpossum Wrote:  

(04-19-2013 10:11 AM)Dead Wrote:  Dad: "You have to go to public school because it prepares you to deal with the retarded assholes you'll need to get along with as an adult."
Mom: "Public school is free."

I think most everyone is well experienced being prepared to be around assholes by the time that they escape middle school and a lot of online schools are free.

Basically, the "life sucks, get used to it" argument. Wow.

This video from Suli Breaks depicts a parent making up reasons for her kid to go to school:



Watch on YouTube

How might some of these arguments be countered? I think part of the answer is to ask questions. What are the underlying beliefs and motivations of those who make these claims? How is their life going for them, what did they think of school, and how do they explain the variety of ways other people go about learning?

(04-19-2013 11:55 PM)SoulRiser Wrote:  So I posted a link to SS somewhere, and this is what one guy replied:

Quote: I remember feeling that way. Something to keep in mind is that the most important thing that we learn in school is "how to learn". Took me a while to realize that.

... how do I even respond to something like that?

I think "learning how to learn" is a real thing that's worth giving some thought. Yes, people naturally learn some things, but most people don't automatically learn important life lessons early on, that could be relevant to them. Figuring out how to optimally use a large amount of time is a related skill. How to be creative, time management, how to do research and discern truth from falsehoods, how to question things, there are so many things that one can learn how to learn. Learning to ask great questions -- or remember those one asked in the past, is another important "learning how to learn" skill. So is sticking with a challenging task and accomplishing something.

The problem is that school very often doesn't facilitate learning how to learn. Factory model schools facilitate learning how to follow rules (or not), adapt to particular teachers in a factory model environment, how to do what you're told and nothing more. And, of course, how to ask "is this going to be on the test?" instead of pursuing open-ended learning and getting assessed based on you as a whole person, not only what you know in a few specific subjects.

Michael Wesch breaks down this problem in this talk, where he explains "a good question is something that leads people on a quest," but the questions is students are asking are anything but... they're questions like "how many points is this worth" and "is this going to be on the test?"



Watch on YouTube

The title of that talk is "From Knowledgable to Knowledge-able," in other words changing from just being able to pass tests, to being able to gain and apply knowledge. That's another way to think about "learning how to learn." Also, since people learn in different ways, it can take some exploration and experimentation to figure out what methods work best.

When it comes to the conversations that play out with parents about "why school," this clip of Nikhil Goyal asking Romney a question comes to mind:



Watch on YouTube
Romney explains that throughout your life, there are going to be tests. In the most abstract sense that's true, and school doesn't do a great job of preparing people for most of them. When it comes to high-stakes multiple choice tests, those tend not to exist at all.

On that note, this video depicts a schooled student who tries to get a job...



Watch on YouTube

"My fifth grade teacher told me to always choose C when I did not know the answer."

As for a good reason for public schooling, it does help people with some things like learning to read and write. There *are* people who don't have access to education or particularly educational experiences. For example, those in refugee camps, people without access to mentors, people who are surrounded by others who think life is just a horrible thing that you have to get used to. However, that's not an argument for why school needs to work a particular way. Learning to read and write is good, but it's not the same as the broader learning about the world that the Internet or other resources, as well as mentors, can provide. Unfortunately, most school environments aren't set up for teachers to function as any kind of mentors.

As for the argument of having to go to school to keep funding for other students, I don't think that's true in all cases. Different schools have their funding calculated differently. However, if it is true, is that reason for one kid to have to sacrifice better alternatives, so everyone can suffer in schools that aren't working?

This post from Jessica Smock presents a positive view of homeschooling from an educator who changed from "anti-" to "pro" However, her last pointhits on the problem that public schools are at risk of a death spiral as students leave for charters (which are also public), homeschooling, and unschooling. Well, something has to change, doesn't it?

10 Thoughts by an Educator about Homeschooling (and Why I’m Still Worried)
http://jessicasmock.com/2013/01/14/10-th...l-worried/

This question of arguments about school comes up again and again in so many people's lives. Maybe showing and discussing some of the above items with parents could help advance the discussion for at least some people.

[Potato]

can you even come up with a good reason for online public schooling instead of homeschooling?

[HawkbitAlpha]

(05-12-2013 11:28 AM)Potato Wrote:  can you even come up with a good reason for online public schooling instead of homeschooling?

Homeschooling/online are pretty much the same thing, except online is virtual. Nuff said.

Sorry Potato but you always give us the stupidest posts...

[EntityCubed]

My mom even admits the public school system does not make you want to learn.

[Potato]

Quote:Homeschooling/online are pretty much the same thing, except online is virtual. Nuff said.

Sorry Potato but you always give us the stupidest posts...

online: choose from school curriculum, grade based on busywork completion

home school: create your own curriculum, busywork completion does not determine grade

similarities: both can be done from the computer

is that simple enough for you to understand?

[xcriteria]

Some people use the term "homeschooling" to describe pretty regimented, school-like studies at home, based on a fixed curriculum, and the term "unschooling" to describe the open-ended approach. Others use homeschooling in a more open-ended way.

Of course, homeschool/unschool can also be done out in the world, in the kitchen, etc.

And increasingly, "school" is done in front of computers in many places.

[Ky]

"Because I said so" is a good reason because it implies coercion and accurately convey's the adult's state of mind ("I'm bigger than you, so do what I say"). Unfortunately, it is the response we don't want to hear and probably the most common one in this scenario.

[EntityCubed]

(04-19-2013 02:23 PM)Lime Wrote:  Tradition, brainwashing, and if they're a first generation immigrant, perhaps something like "Oh you're so lucky you get these educational opportunities that I never got blarh blagh blah".

If you ask a teacher, the response you receive will probably more or less say:

1. You're young and stupid and you don't know anything yet.
2. I'm an adult, you're a tiny little bastard, you have no right to question me.
3. I'm not going to discuss this in class.
4. You need to learn (lolwhut?).
5. (In the event you counter these) Ok, we can talk about this all day, but I'm not going to so shut up and do your work like a good little slave even though I can't prove why this would be helpful.

6.All your opinions are wrong and mine are always right, now shut the hell up.