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This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.
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Night Offline
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Post: #1
This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

This is a documentary in the Philippines. Contraception and abortion is illegal, which is what some people would love to make true in America. You'll see woman getting back alley illegal abortions, and often they have to rushed to the hospital. And some woman are too scared to go for fear of prosecution that they die.

So as you can see here outlawing abortion and contraception, especially together, causes more harm than good.

This disgusts me, I am actually on the verge of tears..

http://youtu.be/fOr-n7lAacY


Watch on YouTube

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03-26-2013 11:34 PM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #2
This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

Wasn't it sort of like that in America about 30-40 years ago?

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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03-27-2013 02:09 AM
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Night Offline
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RE: This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

I believe so.

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03-27-2013 02:18 AM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #4
This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

If one were to become injured, possibly to the point of death, for doing something illegal and dangerous, wouldn't it be their fault (and the fault of whomever aided/injured them)?

It's only sickening that there are people that illegally attempt to prevent someone from being born and would rather die for it than get a criminal sentence.

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03-27-2013 06:27 AM
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thewake Offline
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Post: #5
This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

To be fair, a lot of people who are against abortion aren't against contraception and many of pro-life folks do believe in exceptions for extraneous circumstances like rape, incest, or threat to mother's life.

In any case, at some point we have to draw the line and say that abortion can't happen after a certain point. Whether that point is conception or not is, I think, debatable.

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03-27-2013 01:26 PM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #6
RE: This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

(03-27-2013 06:27 AM)DoA Wrote:  If one were to become injured, possibly to the point of death, for doing something illegal and dangerous, wouldn't it be their fault (and the fault of whomever aided/injured them)?

It's only sickening that there are people that illegally attempt to prevent someone from being born and would rather die for it than get a criminal sentence.

the idea that a person is at fault, if she resist being forced to give birth with her own body by the fucking government, is fucking disgusting.
03-27-2013 07:29 PM
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Potato Offline
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This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

that has to be one of the most disgusting comments i've ever read
03-27-2013 07:31 PM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #8
This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

I believe that women should not have abortions but rather give birth to the child in return for payment from the government. Then the government takes the kids and trains them for government service, with their loyalty and obedience firmly in the leader. Then with enough kids trained, they would form a protective barrier between the untrustworthy normal citizens and the inner cabal.

Or that's how I'd form my government.(Some credit to the Ottoman Empire for testing out something similar, though they took young christian boys, whose parents gladly gave them up because the the position those kids would reach rather than stay home and become farmers. The Janissary tended to be pretty loyal, though sometimes the Sultan would forget to pay them since there was no war, which made them unhappy. Certainly beat hiring from the normal people who could probably prove to be more worried about benefiting his region rather than the empire)

Women should always have the right to abort though. Sure, if it isn't life-threatening or from rape, then they should pay for it themselves. Abortion, in my opinion, has no harm on the liberty of another individual(up to a certain point in pregnancy does it become a harm).

Course handing the kid over to the government still sounds a lot better... Mwahaha

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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03-27-2013 09:20 PM
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Night Offline
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Post: #9
RE: This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

(03-27-2013 06:27 AM)DoA Wrote:  If one were to become injured, possibly to the point of death, for doing something illegal and dangerous, wouldn't it be their fault (and the fault of whomever aided/injured them)?

It's only sickening that there are people that illegally attempt to prevent someone from being born and would rather die for it than get a criminal sentence.

How is it their fault for not being able to have legal, safe, abortions? This statement is so wrong I don't even know what to say!

What's sickening is that people force women to get illegal abortions from barely qualified "doctors" which cause complications and death!

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03-27-2013 09:54 PM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #10
This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

And DOA, this thread is about why abortion should be legal, so quit using the word "illegally" as if that proves anything. and you may think that you have some god-given authority to tell people what they have to give birth to, but for actual moral reasons to oppose abortion, you have jack shit.
03-28-2013 04:03 AM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #11
This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

To the two posts above...

There is no 'safe' abortion. It's a medical procedure that can be (and sometimes is) botched by even the most practiced doctors. It's not an easy thing to mess with the sanctity of life, after all.

Also, how can you accuse me of being immoral when you two plead on behalf of the people who want their children never to be born even when they've already started developing? You encourage the practice of pseudo-murder; you think people should have the choice to wipe out their offspring before those offspring even have the opportunity to struggle. That is what sickens me.

I don't have any authority to say whether it should or should not be legal anywhere else in the world, but I do find abortion (except for extraneous cases) to be morally wrong, sickening, and cruel. Plus, it's violently discriminatory against people whose age is a negative number.

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03-28-2013 06:27 AM
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Night Offline
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Post: #12
RE: This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

Ok, So then don't get an abortion?

How does someone else getting an abortion affect you?

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03-28-2013 06:48 AM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #13
This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

That's a cold statement. Edit: Even though it is a question.

Why does everything have to be for my individual (or your individual) benefit? This is potential people we are talking about; this is the case of more than 50 million (and rising) that never got the right to live - a lost...well, generation isn't the right word. You are advocating murder (and don't you dare give me the legal definition - that's even more heartless).

I implore all members of society to discontinue killing their unborn offspring (at least if their intent is convenience, which is the main purpose of the vast majority of abortions today, which is sickening), and I implore the governments of the world to stay out of the matter altogether (honestly, they only make things worse).

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(This post was last modified: 03-28-2013 08:00 AM by Ky.)
03-28-2013 08:00 AM
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Night Offline
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RE: This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

But what about cases of rape? What about if the woman(or couple) is having trouble just feeding themselves? What if they have no health insurance? What about teenagers?

Why is it that because you believe abortions is wrong that you must impose your beliefs on everyone else? It's not your body, you don't have the right to make decisions on their body. You're no better than religious idiots of try to say gay marriage is wrong becuase "the bible says so."

also on your statement that abortion is done for the convenience of it. That's just absurd. Luckily I've never had to actually make a choice to abort, but i have thought about what if. Do you have any idea how hard that decision is?
Quote:RTL trivializes motherhood and childbirth by dismissing pregnancy as a mere inconvenience. RTL ignores or belittles the needs of the woman and the conflict she endures in making her decision. Guilt is inflicted when compassion is needed.

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03-28-2013 09:20 AM
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Ky Offline
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RE: This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

(03-28-2013 09:20 AM)Night Wrote:  But what about cases of rape? What about if the woman(or couple) is having trouble just feeding themselves? What if they have no health insurance? What about teenagers?

Why is it that because you believe abortions is wrong that you must impose your beliefs on everyone else? It's not your body, you don't have the right to make decisions on their body. You're no better than religious idiots of try to say gay marriage is wrong becuase "the bible says so."

also on your statement that abortion is done for the convenience of it. That's just absurd. Luckily I've never had to actually make a choice to abort, but i have thought about what if. Do you have any idea how hard that decision is?
Quote:RTL trivializes motherhood and childbirth by dismissing pregnancy as a mere inconvenience. RTL ignores or belittles the needs of the woman and the conflict she endures in making her decision. Guilt is inflicted when compassion is needed.
Those are all extraneous cases (and for each of the things you've described, abortion isn't even the only solution) - so called because they're the exception rather than the norm. In fact, approximately 86%/99%/93% of abortions take place for the convenience of the mother (or should I say would-be mother).

You're accusing me of imposing my "beliefs" on others? That's a low blow - are you saying that I shouldn't tell would-be murderers not to kill people? No, it's not my body, and it ain't the would-be mother's body either - it's an pseudo-parasitic yet functional and soon-to-be-born living organism dependent on her body and has as much right to life as she does. By the way, you're using a false analogy - unlike the "idiots", I'm not quoting a Bible or attacking something that doesn't kill anyone.

It shouldn't be a choice! No one should be given the choice to ask someone to kill their kid before he/she can ever be born.

Most sickening of all is that you dare suggest that the circumstances of abortion's illegality is the reason it should be made legal. You should be ashamed of yourself for siding with murderous criminals.

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03-28-2013 09:40 AM
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Lime Offline
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RE: This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

(03-28-2013 08:00 AM)DoA Wrote:  You are advocating murder (and don't you dare give me the legal definition - that's even more heartless).
If you are not going to use legal definitions, then why should abortion be outlawed on the grounds of murder?
Currently, I am having a difficult time understanding your exact viewpoint on this subject. Do you hold the position that a fertilized human egg is equal to a fully developed person?
03-28-2013 11:06 AM
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Night Offline
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RE: This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

All i see is convenience. What constitutes as convenient?

It's convenient to terminate a pregnancy in order to avoid being stuck and in abusive relation. it;s convenient to terminate a pregnancy when you can barely pay to feed yourself. It's convenient to be able to finish highschool/college instead of having to care for a child.

The whole "convenience" thing is too broad. Ok so yeah these reasons below are mainly convenience. But they seem to be pretty good reasons to me. I mean, seriously. Would you rather struggle to put food on the table for your child or wait until you're stable, you can afford another mouth to feed, and you're not busy with school etc. to give a child the best life it can?

Here are the real numbers
http://womensissues.about.com/od/reprodu...sons_2.htm
Quote: 74% felt "having a baby would dramatically change my life" (which includes interrupting education, interfering with job and career, and/or concern over other children or dependents)
73% felt they "can't afford a baby now" (due to various reasons such as being unmarried, being a student, inability to afford childcare or basic needs of life, etc.)
48% "don't want to be a single mother or [were] having relationship problem[s]"
38% "have completed [their] childbearing"
32% were "not ready for a(nother) child"
25% "don't want people to know I had sex or got pregnant"
22% "don't feel mature enough to raise a(nother) child"
14% felt their "husband or partner wants me to have an abortion"
13% said there were "possible problems affecting the health of the fetus"
12% said there were "physical problems with my health"
6% felt their "parents want me to have an abortion"
1% said they were "a victim of rape"
<0.5% "became pregnant as a result of incest"

Also how is it functional? The fetus can't even live outside the womb until 22 weeks, and that's with extreme medical care! And technically, by definition a fetus IS parasite. and i love that statement "attacking something that doesn't kill anyone" you're attacking legal abortions, illegal abortions kills 1 woman every 7 minutes around the world.

Also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcS1JC_X1zI


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03-28-2013 11:23 AM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #18
This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

just because something contain a set of human DNA, it does not automatically give it all the moral consequences of a post-birth actual human.

legalizing abortion would make life easier for a bunch of people, and reduce the amount of pregnancy related deaths; keeping it illegal would put the burden of raising a kid on unwilling parents, and it would set the precedent that the government can decide what a person has grow to inside her own body.

if a person doesn't want some fucking thing growing inside of her own body, she should have the right to have it removed. a fetus is just a mindless lump of human cells and should have as much relevance to rights and morality as a fucking vegetable. sub-human fetuses aren't worth shit compared to the well-being of actual people.

Quote:..has as much right to life as she does.

a parasite does not have the right to a host.
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2013 01:42 PM by Potato.)
03-28-2013 01:20 PM
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Ky Offline
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RE: This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

Then how about some middle ground? Maybe the government should stay out of the issue altogether. If abortion were neither explicitly legalized or criminalized, society could choose for itself which way to pursue the matter.

(03-28-2013 01:20 PM)Potato Wrote:  a parasite does not have the right to a host.
Well said - that basically sums up my thoughts on welfare, but this situation is different.

These "parasites" you speak of are future human beings, and in the matter of simple months will be as human as you or me (albeit younger). That is, of course, unless they are aborted. Even if mothers are worried that they won't have splendid futures, can't they at least have the right to a future at all?

Once an aborted fetus dies, it does not come back as the next one - it's replaced by a different one. A mom who chooses to abort her potential offspring because she can't make room for it at the moment is never going to have that child in particular. That potential life will be lost, regardless of whether the mother "makes up for it" by having another child later.

Also, be careful when you have sex (especially unprotected). If you don't want a child, then what's the sense in reproducing?

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03-28-2013 10:23 PM
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Night Offline
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RE: This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

Ok you know what. That's great for you. Don't get an abortion (i'm assuming you're a woman?). But there's this lovely thing about about pro-choice, it';s the fact that no matter what your choice is, you can do it. Do want an abortion, GREAT! But don't take away the choice from all the other woman who think that's that best solution they have.

Anyways here's an article on why adoption is NOT and alternative to abortion:
http://goldencoathanger.com/2010/06/14/a...-abortion/
Quote:All about adoption as an abortion alternative (alliteration!)

I can’t tell you how many times anti-choicers scream ADOPTION! As if none of the women who get abortions ever thought of it.

I wonder if the antis ever stop for a minute to really think about adoption. No, I don’t mean considering adopting a child, although that would be the non-hypocritical thing to do. I’m wondering if they really considered how adoption works and how it doesn’t actually solve all the problems that come with an unwanted pregnancy.

Let me preface this all by saying that this is NOT an argument against adoption. I have no problem with people putting children up for adoption if that’s what they feel is the best choice. What I do have a problem with is the idea that adoption is, in all cases a better, alternative to abortion.

In reality, adoption isn’t even an alternative to abortion at all. What it is is an alternative to parenting. It solves the problem of a childrearing, but not the problem of unwanted pregnancy. Women still face nine months of gestation and the pain and sickness that comes with it, will still require very expensive medical care, will miss work or school, will still endure the pain of labor, and will still face all of the risk that come with pregnancy and delivery. To some women, like myself, this is simply unacceptable.

Too often, people accuse women who get abortions of doing so ‘for convenience.’ Because nothing is more convenient than taking time out of your schedule to forge though a mob of screaming antis on your way inside your local clinic to get an uncomfortable and, for some, embarrassing procedure and then withstand cramps and bleeding for a few days, all the while being judged by those around you. And all if this comes after making what could be a very difficult decision, figuring out how to afford it, taking time off work, and finding care for any kids that might already exist. Yeah, right. Real convenient.

The insistence of adoption as the single best solution is made even worse when coming from women who have already had children. They of all people know that pregnancy isn’t a simple inconvenience. Realizing you left the remote on top of the TV on the other side of the room is an inconvenience. Pregnancy is an ordeal and birthing is an enormously painful experience.

The most common effects of pregnancy are mood swings and depression (which, interestingly, are things antis like to threaten women with as affects of abortion, although they’re not,) weight gain, nausea, fatigue, and general inability to function as normal. Forgive me if it doesn’t sound all that fun. However, pregnancy puts women at risk for more serious and sometimes permanent health problems and even the risk of death. I thought about listing as many complications as I could, but after half an hour I still had quite a ways to go to even come close to covering most common. I figured this post was already long enough. Suffice to say, pregnancy is not a passive, un-invasive experience and certainly far more than a mere ‘inconvenience.’

Unless someone can adopt a fetus at any stage in gestation, and take it into their own uterus to later give birth to, or to an artificial uterus then adoption does not solve the problem of pregnancy as abortion does.

Let’s talk about money. When women cite financial concerns as one of their reasons for abortion, antis will none the less insist that those women should have a baby anyway and put it up for adoption as if they think that doing so is free. It’s not. The cost of a vaginal birth without complication ranges between 9 and 17 THOUSAND dollars. If there are complications, or if a C-section is required, the cost is 14 to 25 thousand. Then of course the newborn has its own bill, usually between 1.5 and 4 thousand, and that’s for a healthy baby born at term to say nothing of babies born premature or are otherwise need of additional medical care. Most insurance plans will cover most of this cost but women will still pay from 5 hundred to 3 thousand dollars our of pocket. And this is all just for giving birth at a hospital to say nothing for prenatal care, or any additional care a woman may need as a result of her pregnancy. Not all women even with insurance will be able to afford the cost of pregnancy and birthing.

Women who aren’t covered by health insurance are shit out of luck. By the way 27 million women in the US are without health insurance. That’s 18%, almost 2 out of 10 women without health insurance – and that’s the average for all women! Of course women who don’t have the luxury of being white are far more likely to be uninsured. Whereas only 13% of white women are uninsured, that percentage nearly doubles for blacks, and triples for Native American and Hispanic women. When you factor in that that the rate of united pregnancy for these groups is much significantly higher than for whites and you see that you have a serious problem. How do you expect, uninsured women to pay for their continued pregnancies?

This problem is further exacerbated when you consider that over 28% of single women live below the poverty line which is set at 11 thousand dollars annually if they have no children. That annual income must be higher if they do have children to sit above the adjusted poverty threshold. How do you seriously expect women to pay for the costs of pregnancy and childbirth, with this income with or without insurance especially when you consider what else women must spend money on. Food, clothing, education, basic necessities, utilities, housing, and any children they might already have, puts a lot of women, living paycheck to paycheck as it is.

To make matters worse, pregnancy itself will cause women to miss work and thereby lose income and not all women are covered with paid maternity leave. On top of that, missing work and school has long term financial consequences as well as a result of missed opportunities.

It’s true that some hospitals may offer discounts to uninsured women, and that some women may be able to get financial assistance from the government or other agencies, and some especially lucky women might even get some or all of their costs covered by the prospective adoptive parents, but it’s not enough to cover all the cost for all women.

With all this in mind, it’s just breathtakingly stupid that anti-choicers were among the most opposed to health care reform which could have helped more women afford their hospital bills and maybe more likely to be able to choose to continue their pregnancies.

By contrast, an abortion in the first trimester either by pill or in clinic costs about 300 and 900 dollars without insurance and even less with insurance or if the woman qualifies for financial assistance and even less still if obtained from a non-profit such as Planned Parenthood.

Oh, but being able to afford to feed yourself and your kids and live indoors and receive medical care are just conveniences, right?

‘But there are thousands of childless couples who desperately want yours!‘ the antis mindlessly shout as if the rest of us are supposed to feel obligated to breed for them. Meanwhile, in reality, there are currently thousands of children in America alone already under state care and in need of adoption, yet are not being adopted. Well that’s an awkward fact isn’t it? Where are all those desperate childless families?

Oh, and by the way, it might be interesting to note that non-whites, the groups most likely to live below the poverty line, most likely to be without health insurance, and most at risk for unintended pregnancy are also the least likely to be adopted.

So really, adoption doesn’t solve the problems of pregnancy, physical or financial, and doesn’t really even completely solve the problem parentless children. What does it solve? It solves the problem of responsibility for women who are either unable or unwilling to care for children that they already have. And even then it isn’t a perfect solution. As with any other decision a woman might make regarding her pregnancy, the decision to put a child up for adoption can be a difficult and painful one that some women are simply unable to endure.

When antis shout from the rooftops the stories of a minority of women who regret their abortion, they ignore (or demonize) those who don’t. Similarly, when they exalt women who chose to be parents, then turn around and look down on women who wanted abortions but were unable to get them or realized too late that it could have been a better option for them. So it’s really no surprise that here too they ignore the feeling of women that are not politically expedient for the antis to use to override other women’s feelings. That is to say, they ignore the fact that adoption is as difficult a decision as any other and some women will regret that as well. Who are you to tell women what they should feel?

So before you go about self-righteously declaring adoption to be the end-all, beat-all solution for all women facing unwanted pregnancies, and at all times preferable to abortion, you’d better think again because the reality of it isn’t as rose-tinted as you might think. You don’t know every woman who walks into a clinic, you don’t know her life, her unique situation. So stop pretending you do. Only she can know what is best for her. Keep your judgments to yourself.

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03-29-2013 08:46 AM
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Post: #21
RE: This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

(03-28-2013 10:23 PM)DoA Wrote:  Then how about some middle ground? Maybe the government should stay out of the issue altogether. If abortion were neither explicitly legalized or criminalized, society could choose for itself which way to pursue the matter.

(03-28-2013 01:20 PM)Potato Wrote:  a parasite does not have the right to a host.
Well said - that basically sums up my thoughts on welfare, but this situation is different.

These "parasites" you speak of are future human beings, and in the matter of simple months will be as human as you or me (albeit younger). That is, of course, unless they are aborted. Even if mothers are worried that they won't have splendid futures, can't they at least have the right to a future at all?

Once an aborted fetus dies, it does not come back as the next one - it's replaced by a different one. A mom who chooses to abort her potential offspring because she can't make room for it at the moment is never going to have that child in particular. That potential life will be lost, regardless of whether the mother "makes up for it" by having another child later.

Also, be careful when you have sex (especially unprotected). If you don't want a child, then what's the sense in reproducing?

I don't understand why you keep using the terms "dies", "murder" etc. A fetus is not a person. Abortion is not murder. You're only murdering something in the same sense that squashing a bug is murder.

A potential person does not matter. The future is completely arbitrary, you can make up all kinds of potential scenarios in the future, and either justify or condemn any action based on that. Referring to potential is not good for building an ethical framework.

"But a fetus is almost a human." Almost, but it's not. It's developing, it's not alive, and it never was. How far back are you willing to go and why? My sperm is a potential human, if I masturbate and waste sperm, why is that not murder?

If you only want to extend that to a certain stage of development of the fetus, what stage would that be? Where do you draw the line between alive and "OK to abort".

And keep in mind being alive isn't always fun or a good thing. Sometimes, early in development, doctors will know that a fetus will either have (or likely have) a severe disability that may cause suffering, or the parents wouldn't be able to accomodate it. Living can be hard. If the parents aren't ready, or if it's a single mother with little income who has to work a lot, or just someone who would plain suck at being a parent (and resent their kids and treat them badly), life is going to be difficult for that child.

By forcing a child into this world, who now has to face the struggle of living (finding food, shelter, self-reflection, self-fulfillment, work, fitting into society, pain, and death etc.), regardless of the circumstances surrounding their existence is irresponsible and selfish.

Also, the planet is currently extremely overpopulated. We need less babies, not more. We're going to run into a severe environmental and energy crisis in this century. We need to do everything we can to allow mothers to choose to have abortions, we need more contraception, and possibly even financial incentives to encourage people NOT to have children. More children is going to cause more hardship both for the existing population, and any future children.

RIP GORE GOROTH

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03-29-2013 11:20 AM
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Lime Offline
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Post: #22
This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

Quote:My sperm is a potential human, if I masturbate and waste sperm, why is that not murder?
Also, no woman needs to be convicted for passing an egg.
03-29-2013 01:01 PM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #23
This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

I see I can't persuade any of you to my point of view. I'll just put my thoughts, in a nutshell, this way; I'm pro-choice as long as the choice is almost always life.

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03-29-2013 02:37 PM
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Desu Offline
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Post: #24
RE: This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

(03-29-2013 02:37 PM)DoA Wrote:  I see I can't persuade any of you to my point of view. I'll just put my thoughts, in a nutshell, this way; I'm pro-choice as long as the choice is almost always life.

I don't want to persuade you or be persuaded. Just looking for understanding.

If that's your POV in a nutshell, let me ask, why do you value life so much? I'm challenging that life is valuable. As I said above, there are times when life just sucks, and bringing a life into this world is huge, really huge. By aborting a fetus, you are preventing another life from having to face life. Life can be quite amazing, yes, but there are times when it's not. Life can be scary, painful, and every single life you bring into this world has to face death anyway. By choosing abortion, you prevent death from facing another life.

By giving birth, you are forcing an individual to come face to face with death, as all of us alive right now, do.

RIP GORE GOROTH

He was an hero. He will always be remembered.
(This post was last modified: 03-29-2013 02:44 PM by Desu.)
03-29-2013 02:44 PM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #25
This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

Well, life is valuable and precious - or, at least to me it is. It doesn't really last very long, in the grand scheme of things, and it's basically a huge collective experience.

Bringing new life into the world is a very big deal, indeed. Giving birth (something I will never truly understand, for I'm the incorrect gender) is a burden, yes, and the mother can't make any guarantees about their offspring's future. Many mothers can't provide for children very well, give them a positive atmosphere, or promise them gifts in their future. I don't think there's a single mother out there that can truthfully tell their kid that they are bound to be successful. It's possible that someone will be born that has to deal with immense amounts of tragedy, and it has happened many times before.

But life isn't just a miserable experience. We have to make something of it before we die, don't we? There are joyous moments, moments of pride, moments of utter ecstasy that can be beheld by the people who live today. The bad moments just reinforce the reality of life, but the good moments define it (at least, in my opinion). It isn't something that can go without being experienced.

Why make the choice for another living being? I'm not trying to change any minds here (at this point), but I'm just asking why. Why? Why justify to yourself or to others that an unborn child should not have the opportunity to experience life, should be spared its pains at the cost of its happy moments? Why leave a soul forced to observe nothing at all instead than the chaotic but fun world out here? Why eliminate someone that could, in a short amount of time, become a person?

Life is truly the most enigmatic thing, and I wouldn't want to miss out. That's where I'm coming from, I guess.

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03-29-2013 02:57 PM
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Desu Offline
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Post: #26
This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

I can see that.

I think where I disagree is that you don't lose anything by precluding a life from coming into being. I could have kids right now, but I'm not going to simply because I don't want to and I'm a selfish guy that wants to look out for himself. By aborting a fetus, you are simply throwing away a lifeless chunk of nothing. It never knew existence vs nonexistence, life vs death. That fetus does not care if you abort it, so I think the parents have precedence as to whether or not the child will be born. The parents' interests come first.

RIP GORE GOROTH

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03-29-2013 03:45 PM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #27
This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

doa you're just talking here but if you were some kind of legislator u'd be voting for laws that would put people in jails and shit for engaging in parasite removal. just saying. you know that the actual outweighs the potential, you're not saying that the government needs to make sure that every women's egg gets fertilized, even though it has to potential to grow into a person. your position has no basis in morality that concern actual humans, you're just reciting bullshit church teachings as a follower of authority and not admitting it.
03-29-2013 09:26 PM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #28
This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

Okay, Desu, so where is the line drawn? That thing you call a lifeless chunk of nothing shows different signs of life at various stages before birth. Would it be okay to abort it one trimester before birth? One month? One week? One day? Just prior? There has to be a line drawn somewhere. Other than that, I see where you're coming from as well.

Potato, I don't see what my religion has to do with this. I'm just saying it doesn't make sense for someone to kill their offspring before they're born once they've reached the stage at which they're close to being human, much closer than, say, a fertilized egg. It doesn't really make sense for me, anyway - you might have crystal clear reasoning for it.

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03-31-2013 02:15 AM
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Lime Offline
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Post: #29
This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

I would put it at the point where the fetus is conscious.
03-31-2013 02:35 AM
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Post: #30
RE: This is Why Abortion Should be Legal.

(03-31-2013 02:35 AM)Lime Wrote:  I would put it at the point where the fetus is conscious.

I don't think we'll ever be able to know for sure. I'm going to be safe and say we draw the line somewhere around the 2nd trimester.

RIP GORE GOROTH

He was an hero. He will always be remembered.
03-31-2013 03:37 AM
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