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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

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Why do we suffer?
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LiptomaticMate Offline
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Post: #1
Why do we suffer?

It seems that my big post thread wasn't very attractive to reading by users here, at least not answered to. So I'm now revising and making it more read-friendly. Nutter

Why do we suffer:.....?

----------
This is what I find almost paradoxical.
How come that you learn so much from suffering and pain, but you don't like it. (at least I know I don't, if you aren't masochistic or something.).

I learn most from practice and actually experiencing stuff.
Watching videos of people's struggles telling me about how terrible and straining their "sufferings" have been can't and I think could never replace the actual thing, it simply can't, I can't imagine something like that.
They do affect me and get me thinking, but they can't replace the experiences and feelings I connect with when having these "sufferings.

In one way, I want and I don't wantpain and suffering. Here I am referring to mental suffering.
Physical suffering like hard training and sports is another thing and is healthy.
----------

An under note, just a thought basically: "If society was perfect would we be more happy?" Would we enjoy not suffering rarely or never mentally as a result of a perfect society - from stuff?
This scenario then means that people were as well perfect, never fighting and conflicts never occurred.
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2013 03:15 AM by LiptomaticMate.)
01-11-2013 03:11 AM
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Miller0700 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Why do we suffer?

Because life isn't perfect and we don't know the answers to it.

Previously known as Derchin.
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2013 06:02 AM by Miller0700.)
01-11-2013 06:02 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #3
Why do we suffer?

Mental suffering is unnecessary... you can learn without it. Suffering and pain is caused by people's interpretations of things that happen, not by the events themselves.

I don't want pain and suffering, but sometimes it just happens. I don't mind it that much, actually. I don't know why some people seem to go to great lengths to avoid pain... it's really not that bad.

"If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them." - Dalai Lama
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01-11-2013 07:37 AM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #4
Why do we suffer?

Suffering is completely needless, but the devil sees fit to introduce it anyway.

Public Service Announcement: First world problems are still problems.
01-11-2013 07:42 AM
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LiptomaticMate Offline
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Post: #5
Why do we suffer?

#SoulRiser, Do you really think that a person who has been through 30 years in prison, 10 years being alone in the forest with only himself because he was abandoned and banished will be equally "I don't know the adjective for this", but let's say "wise", as a 20 year old person who has all his life lived in New York, gone to school and simply watched inspiring videos online, and read books about people's problems and sufferings?

I'm not trying to convince you to think anything at all as me, I'm only interested in maybe getting some sort of idea of could this be a paradox and etceteral info.

If dicks didn't exist in this world, then I don't know if I would have been the same person? Maybe I would have been somewhat the same, but the most changing moments would maybe have not existed - maybe...

Hasn't any suffering changed you in some way?
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2013 09:23 AM by LiptomaticMate.)
01-11-2013 09:22 AM
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LiptomaticMate Offline
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Post: #6
Why do we suffer?

I am talking about pure gratefulness, does anybody here have any idea of how that feels?!

I don't....

Pure tear-awakening gratefulness, happiness and peace. Does anybody here think that that may be achieved from watching inspiring videos, reading and listening to other peoples stories.

LINK TO VIDEO IS SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!
------------------------------------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWJyI9OybWk
------------------------------------------------
Do you think that something like that may be achieved without suffering?

Not suffering, is that something we should actually be wanting? Or not?

Because no suffering isn't good either I think... Or maybe it is? I don't now, I'm just pondering here, trying to get some thinking going on in my head and maybe getting you to mull and ponder a little bit for that case as well. Smile
What do you think?
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2013 10:24 AM by LiptomaticMate.)
01-13-2013 10:22 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Why do we suffer?

Quote:#SoulRiser, Do you really think that a person who has been through 30 years in prison, 10 years being alone in the forest with only himself because he was abandoned and banished will be equally "I don't know the adjective for this", but let's say "wise", as a 20 year old person who has all his life lived in New York, gone to school and simply watched inspiring videos online, and read books about people's problems and sufferings?
It's possible. But they would have had totally different experiences, so they would be wise about different things. They'd definitely have totally different ways of handling social situations...

"If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them." - Dalai Lama
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"I'm pretty sure there's a lot of beauty that can only be found in the mind of a lunatic." - TheCancer
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01-13-2013 10:39 PM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #8
Why do we suffer?

Suffering and experience seem to be used to mean the same thing here... experiencing things is good and necessary for learning, but suffering is optional.

"If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them." - Dalai Lama
Help & Support - Get help with leaving school, unsupportive parents, and more.
Click here if school makes you depressed or suicidal

Support School Survival on Patreon or Donate Bitcoin Here: 1Q5WCcxWjayniaL92b8GfXBiGdfjmnUNa2
"Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it." - André Paul Guillaume Gide
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination." - Albert Einstein
"I'm pretty sure there's a lot of beauty that can only be found in the mind of a lunatic." - TheCancer
EIPD - Emotionally Incompetent Parent Disorder

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01-13-2013 10:40 PM
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LiptomaticMate Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Why do we suffer?

(01-13-2013 10:40 PM)SoulRiser Wrote:  Suffering and experience seem to be used to mean the same thing here... experiencing things is good and necessary for learning, but suffering is optional.

Tell me what you thing from the ground and up! About suffering, and afterwards about experiences. If it seemed like I referred to them the same way, I'm taking that back and please revise!
01-14-2013 12:35 AM
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timf Offline
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Post: #10
Why do we suffer?

Why we suffer;

1. Evil hearts (ours and others)
2. Ignorance (ours and others)
3. Imperfect DNA (sickness and disease)
4. Collectivism (social restraints like government, school, and corporations)
5. Intemperate environment (cold and rain)
6. Erosion of the family (working parents too busy to have or care for children)
7. Failed churches (offering a ritual treadmill instead of showing us how to know our creator)
01-14-2013 02:42 AM
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LiptomaticMate Offline
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Post: #11
Why do we suffer?

Has nobody ever reflected on this question? Is suffering necessary for happiness?
If it is, why the heck do we not like it?
01-14-2013 03:37 AM
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thewake Offline
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Post: #12
Why do we suffer?

Why do we suffer? Simple, we have the ability to experience negative emotions. There are stimuli in our environment that elicit these negative emotions. Therefore, we suffer.

People have a tendency to look for a human reason for things. "Why do we suffer? Why do good things happen to bad people?" However, these questions are the wrong kind of questions because one man designed the world we live in. It just sort of grew and this is how it is. The workings of the world are different in nature from what we intuitively believe and we shouldn't try to personify those workings.

That said, understanding the mechanisms that cause suffering can cause us to inquire into how it can be reduced. That is a question worth asking.

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01-14-2013 07:00 AM
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LiptomaticMate Offline
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RE: Why do we suffer?

(01-14-2013 07:00 AM)Wes Wrote:  Why do we suffer? Simple, we have the ability to experience negative emotions. There are stimuli in our environment that elicit these negative emotions. Therefore, we suffer.

People have a tendency to look for a human reason for things. "Why do we suffer? Why do good things happen to bad people?" However, these questions are the wrong kind of questions because one man designed the world we live in. It just sort of grew and this is how it is. The workings of the world are different in nature from what we intuitively believe and we shouldn't try to personify those workings.

That said, understanding the mechanisms that cause suffering can cause us to inquire into how it can be reduced. That is a question worth asking.

Why are you so obtuse?
01-14-2013 08:36 AM
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IamNoone Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Why do we suffer?

Because, as Wes said, we are capable of suffering. Also, because we are not perfect. No matter how good we try to be, we have caused others to suffer at some point in their lives. Shit happens.

The purpose of life is a life with a purpose
So I’d rather die for a cause than live a life that is worthless
I don’t need the circus or the day of national observance
I need you to think for you and stop being a servant
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01-15-2013 11:07 AM
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LiptomaticMate Offline
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Post: #15
Why do we suffer?

You guys don't seem to get my point, I wasn't referring to the biological cause of emotional suffering, but the cause of our everyday suffering on our self.

Why do we feel bad daily? Would we be more happy feeling happy nonstop?
01-15-2013 11:19 PM
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thewake Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Why do we suffer?

(01-15-2013 11:19 PM)LiptomaticMate Wrote:  You guys don't seem to get my point, I wasn't referring to the biological cause of emotional suffering, but the cause of our everyday suffering on our self.

Why do we feel bad daily? Would we be more happy feeling happy nonstop?
Are we even capable of feeling happy all the time?

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01-16-2013 01:36 PM
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timf Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Why do we suffer?

Quote:Why do we feel bad daily? Would we be more happy feeling happy nonstop?

The opposite of suffering is not happiness, it is boredom. It is easy to think of suffering and happiness as both things we feel and assume that they are opposite ends of the same spectrum.

As a person gains greater control of his life, he finds that his suffering fades and he can enjoy greater comfort. The absence of suffering can produce contentment. However contentment can seem boring and occasionally people pursue various stimulations and diversions that risk reintroducing suffering into their lives.

Happiness, while still something that is felt, is not directly related to the presence or absence of suffering. True happiness is more related to true love. This subject is made more confusing because the terms are so poorly defined. Almost all movies, books, and TV shows describe something they call "falling in love". They bundle all the emotional sensations of lust, anticipation, desire, expectation, and speculation and call it love. These sensations can be differentiated by the adage, "Lust cannot wait to get, love cannot wait to give".

Happiness and true love are more related to selflessness. As has been pointed out on another thread that selfishness is an intrinsic quality of people. However, there are situations that occur that can bring out selflessness. The demands of a baby are such as to draw out selflessness from the mother. This selflessness is an expression of true love and can open the door to experiencing real happiness.

In the military a man may have every expectation that he is going to be killed. This perspective really changes a person. The normal concerns of life can become quite trivial. He may see a grenade and throw himself on it to save his friends. His selfless act may be an expression of the love he has for his comrades.

Happiness and love exist in a world apart from the one with which we are familiar. The "dog eat dog" world of competition and the pursuit of every selfish sensation limits us to the world of suffering and boredom.
01-17-2013 01:59 AM
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Batman Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Why do we suffer?

(01-11-2013 09:22 AM)LiptomaticMate Wrote:  Hasn't any suffering changed you in some way?

The death of my parents has crafted my personality more than most know. If my parents hadn't died, I don't know what situation I would be in, but I know that a lot of other people that I have helped would be in worse situations. I guess I'm sortof grateful for my suffering, but saying that seems screwed up.

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01-31-2013 12:48 PM
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