Do you think humans are dumb?

[LiptomaticMate]

Do you?
Why not, why yes?

[Miller0700]

Some are.

[LiptomaticMate]

Most are. I am, and you are. We all are. Some slightly less than others. all in all dumb as nothing.

[SoulRiser]

Compared to what? Ants are pretty smart... compared to humans they're not, though. Humans are pretty smart... but compare them to whatever else is out there that actually knows everything about how the universe works... nope, we're not smart at all.

[Ky]

Given our historical development, we've certainly made greater strides towards general intelligence as opposed to centuries or even decades ago, but some days you just can't get rid of a moron.

In any case, humans are far more intelligent than anything else they could be compared to.

[magikarp]

Uh. I have a lot of respect for both human potential and human fallibility. I guess that answers the question.

[LiptomaticMate]

Humans are egoistic, selfish, arrogant bastards who without any consideration think about other creatures. We will always remain this way. We don't have to compare our dumbness to a creature or to some sort of source. We are dumb for the simple reasons of a our simpleness. We look upon us self as the most intelligent creature on the planet, and maybe we are. We modify nature to increase our own enjoyment, we evolve without considering noone and nothing.
We are not only dumb and stupid, but pathetic and arrogant.

Every creature besides us which has it's body firmly placed or levitated on this planet is able to follow and respect the natures boundaries and limits. While we, humans, modern man, homo sapiens sapiens support war, by developing stronger and still better weapons, we still export weapons and earn money from it and countries are aware of this enmity, but we are doing it, because we are dumb, because we are dumb. Yes dumb. As always.

We encounter quarrels, battles, conflicts and still we solve them with bloodshed. Why, because we are D-U-M-B. Basically, we are pathetic. Also multiple times through our history as "the fantastic man kind" fuck that. Man kind and all that bullshit, animals and insect are more respectful than us. We egoistically behave around and towards people in the most unfashioned way to only make ourselves feel better, to obtain something which has no specific value to us besides material. Fuck us. Fuck me. Fuck you. Still there isn't much we can do about it. Make an illusion and accept it. Make the best out of our lifetime and try controlling ourselves.

Only the 1/10 of a handful of humans on this planet has got near becoming what I call, "good".
Modern society has changed us, one place we started changing. Where? I don't know.
I do know that monkeys are simple and not very intelligent, and they do fight for the reasons of such as mating, fucking, sex, which is the same thing, food and women. Primitive, but they have something we have lost. I believe.
Still you're believing your smart. I'm very dumb, maybe the dumbest of most people on this site. I don't mind knowing that or characterizing myself as that. You furthermore feel you're better than that, and maybe you are, but you are then among a lot of other humans who also believe that.

You don't have to prove to me that you aren't what I think you are, as long as you yourself know that you can fix and maintain it. That's more important. No need to tell me why you aren't what I say you are, because it won't matter. You do know it, and you are aware of it, you probably aren't really fixing it, it will be an illusion or a futuristic change.

[timf]

Quote:Humans are egoistic, selfish, arrogant bastards who without any consideration think about other creatures. We will always remain this way.

This is an important observation. It introduces into the question of "dumbness" additional factors that should be considered. Being "dumb" is not necessarily just lacking in intelligence.

There was an old movie called the Maltese Falcon. In this movie Humphrey Bogart is being threatened to reveal where the treasure is. He rather jokingly says that the efforts of the bad guys will amount to nothing because he will always respond that they will have to kill him to make good on their threats. In this way (since they do not want to kill him because they would lose the information they wanted) he felt he could be glib with them. One of the bad guys cautions, "Let's be careful because in the heat of the moment men are sometimes likely to forget in what direction their best interest lies". The meaning is that you cannot even depend on self-interest because people may get miffed and act out of passion even when it hurts them.

Consider what happens when you put these flawed components into an organizational system or machine like a school or a government. People who are given arbitrary control over others may use such power to indulge their own character defects, such as when a petty bureaucrat becomes a petty tyrant.

In addition to these problems you have the segmentation of people such that "dumbness" is even amplified. For example, imagine a engineering meeting in Nazi Germany where suggestions are asked for as to what would be the most efficient way to kill Jews. Not only are questions about "should" Jews should be killed not wanted, anyone who questions the established objectives may themselves be subject to extermination.

If one were to examine some of the components that work together to produce what we call "dumbness" we might get a list like;

1. Lack of Intelligence
2. Selfishness
3. Foolishness
4. Malice
5. Lack of self control

It is interesting that according to the Bible 2-5 can change and number 1 isn't that important. The solution to number 3 is wisdom. The Bible says that wisdom is available to all who ask directly from God. If a person who is not very smart has wisdom, it is often said that he has "common sense" (it isn't all that common).

Many Christian denominations have lists of rules to follow. This isn't as helpful as they might imagine. In fact, the book of Galatians was written to people who were just starting down the rule following path.

Humanity might look completely hopeless if it weren't for the possibility that our evil nature can be exchanged for a better one. Christianity has been run as a machine for so long, many people no longer even know that such a change is possible for them.

[LiptomaticMate]

(12-26-2012 02:32 AM)timf Wrote:  

Quote:Humans are egoistic, selfish, arrogant bastards who without any consideration think about other creatures. We will always remain this way.

This is an important observation. It introduces into the question of "dumbness" additional factors that should be considered. Being "dumb" is not necessarily just lacking in intelligence.

There was an old movie called the Maltese Falcon. In this movie Humphrey Bogart is being threatened to reveal where the treasure is. He rather jokingly says that the efforts of the bad guys will amount to nothing because he will always respond that they will have to kill him to make good on their threats. In this way (since they do not want to kill him because they would lose the information they wanted) he felt he could be glib with them. One of the bad guys cautions, "Let's be careful because in the heat of the moment men are sometimes likely to forget in what direction their best interest lies". The meaning is that you cannot even depend on self-interest because people may get miffed and act out of passion even when it hurts them.

Consider what happens when you put these flawed components into an organizational system or machine like a school or a government. People who are given arbitrary control over others may use such power to indulge their own character defects, such as when a petty bureaucrat becomes a petty tyrant.

In addition to these problems you have the segmentation of people such that "dumbness" is even amplified. For example, imagine a engineering meeting in Nazi Germany where suggestions are asked for as to what would be the most efficient way to kill Jews. Not only are questions about "should" Jews should be killed not wanted, anyone who questions the established objectives may themselves be subject to extermination.

If one were to examine some of the components that work together to produce what we call "dumbness" we might get a list like;

1. Lack of Intelligence
2. Selfishness
3. Foolishness
4. Malice
5. Lack of self control

It is interesting that according to the Bible 2-5 can change and number 1 isn't that important. The solution to number 3 is wisdom. The Bible says that wisdom is available to all who ask directly from God. If a person who is not very smart has wisdom, it is often said that he has "common sense" (it isn't all that common).

Many Christian denominations have lists of rules to follow. This isn't as helpful as they might imagine. In fact, the book of Galatians was written to people who were just starting down the rule following path.

Humanity might look completely hopeless if it weren't for the possibility that our evil nature can be exchanged for a better one. Christianity has been run as a machine for so long, many people no longer even know that such a change is possible for them.

I don't really know the definition of dumbness, but I do use it because there is not point looking for a specific perfect describable word to fit exactly into my context.
It doesn't matter to me what "dumb" means and what its definition is. You get the point, and dumb can be a lot of things, especially if you don't know the correct description.
I didn't entirely understand what you were try explain in your reply, but as I said, only a handful of people are what I call "good" and change is I guess possible, but only to those who are aware of it.
And I ain't shitting about some religious shit here, not that religion is shit, but I ain't talking about how you should "know the unconscious mind. spirits and stuff and the secret things".
These religious thoughts which Buddishm and Buddha and all those other religions are conveying and which gets passed over to people is not what I'm thinking about. Not the revelation and not the true purpose of life through religion.
I do not have any blue print or step by step tutorial, nor do I intend to look for one. However I want to be aware of my, what should I call it. Selfishness, arrogance, dumbness. You get it.
Now. What did you more specifically mean in your previous reply. I'm not insulting you I hope, it's just that either you wrote that difficult for me to understand, or I simply have a problem in my brain or you just wrote that badly . Sorry though :(

[Ky]

(12-25-2012 06:23 AM)LiptomaticMate Wrote:  Humans are egoistic, selfish, arrogant bastards who without any consideration think about other creatures.

1. Incorrect. Humans are connected to each other in ways they may not be aware of, and benefit most from positive connection. We think of each other, and, despite being masters of all other creatures, still regard them with adoration (particularly pets). We're self-seeking for our own survival, but interdependent when it comes to thriving.
2. This has absolutely nothing to do with being dumb.

(12-25-2012 06:23 AM)LiptomaticMate Wrote:  We don't have to compare our dumbness to a creature or to some sort of source. We are dumb for the simple reasons of a our simpleness. We look upon us self as the most intelligent creature on the planet, and maybe we are. We modify nature to increase our own enjoyment, we evolve without considering noone and nothing.
We are not only dumb and stupid, but pathetic and arrogant.

Without any basis of comparison, we are neither dumb nor smart. Claiming that we are without any sort of control variable is a logical fallacy, perhaps even a logical paradox.

We are indeed the most intelligent creatures on the face of the earth, and do wonder if there is anything intelligent outside of Earth we can compare ourselves to. That's the whole reason I voted "No".

No creature has ever evolved. But that's beside the point - no creature has ever evolved in consideration of another, or to be nice. Humans have adapted to better suit their environments, sure, and some have even done so because it is better than adapting the environment itself. Factually speaking, however, we need to prioritize ourselves above nature because there isn't a statistic out there that puts our lifespan at any longer than nature's.

This "arrogance" talk, in relation to what you've said about our modification of nature, is the exact guilt-speak the Green Movement is spouting. Again, we need to focus on our own survival; nature can and has fended for itself.

(12-25-2012 06:23 AM)LiptomaticMate Wrote:  Every creature besides us which has it's body firmly placed or levitated on this planet is able to follow and respect the natures boundaries and limits. While we, humans, modern man, homo sapiens sapiens support war, by developing stronger and still better weapons, we still export weapons and earn money from it and countries are aware of this enmity, but we are doing it, because we are dumb, because we are dumb. Yes dumb. As always.

That first sentence sounds more like an argument for why we're the superior species.

In all honesty, we haven't breached any code of nature at all. We had the technology to fell trees and clear paths to build our civilization, and we did so, but more trees have sprung up (some of them actually inside the cities) and more paths have been blocked by more natural obstacles. It is possible for the nature/tech duality to have a decent balance.

And, I do apologize if I can't tell how the lucrative trade of arms equates to a lack of common sense; the only people not to win out are those who lack said common sense.

(Also, always is an absolute. It makes you sound as though you're not to be believed.)

(12-25-2012 06:23 AM)LiptomaticMate Wrote:  We encounter quarrels, battles, conflicts and still we solve them with bloodshed. Why, because we are D-U-M-B. Basically, we are pathetic. Also multiple times through our history as "the fantastic man kind" fuck that. Man kind and all that bullshit, animals and insect are more respectful than us. We egoistically behave around and towards people in the most unfashioned way to only make ourselves feel better, to obtain something which has no specific value to us besides material. Fuck us. Fuck me. Fuck you. Still there isn't much we can do about it. Make an illusion and accept it. Make the best out of our lifetime and try controlling ourselves.

Violence is our answer for those who would violently infringe upon the rights of their fellow man. It is not always wrongdoing itself, but tends to be the retribution for it. War and peace are two different options, and circumstances pending, one or the other would work just fine. War, more often than you might think.

We actually have a very specific recorded history because of our superiority to other species. Animals do not even have the emotional capacity to respect (although, to their merit, they can do other things than that).

Vulgarity, that's a good sign. You seem so sure of yourself.

...And then words that hardly make sense even in context. Not very articulate, are you?

(12-25-2012 06:23 AM)LiptomaticMate Wrote:  Only the 1/10 of a handful of humans on this planet has got near becoming what I call, "good".
Modern society has changed us, one place we started changing. Where? I don't know.
I do know that monkeys are simple and not very intelligent, and they do fight for the reasons of such as mating, fucking, sex, which is the same thing, food and women. Primitive, but they have something we have lost. I believe.
Still you're believing your smart. I'm very dumb, maybe the dumbest of most people on this site. I don't mind knowing that or characterizing myself as that. You furthermore feel you're better than that, and maybe you are, but you are then among a lot of other humans who also believe that.

47% of statistics are made up on the spot. /badjoke

We all have the capacity for good, just as we have the capacity for evil. It is the choice of the individual to choose which one to be (if not both). Calling all of us bad reflects poorly on the well-more-than-10% of people who are morally sound.

Modern society is not governed by the individual OR the people anymore, which is very odd indeed. I'm not even sure what it is, but I do know it casts a very negative reflection of the potentially positive, and is attempting to recruit more into its fold. If I may take a guess, however, I must say that you sound like that's the side you're on.

We have advanced. Whatever is "lost" is primal. I find the habits of a monkey highly irrational anyway.

Don't attempt to predict what I think of myself.

You're dumb? Well, in that instance, for once, I concur. For someone so dumb, though, you're certainly not lacking in insight - it just happens to be misguided (which, in turn, indicates how dumb you are). It can be remedied, if you are ready to stop being foolish.

Am I better than that? That's not for me to say; to judge myself would be unfair. I'm not sure where my mental standing is, but I do possess the desire to improve. Perhaps, if I am dumb now, I might not be later due to the strides I take towards understanding my surroundings.

In any case, you are attempting to predict human nature as though it is ordered. If it were ordered, we would all either be inherently bad or good, but instead we're a mix (and I'd like to think we're leaning good). Making sense of chaos is an amateur mistake.

(12-25-2012 06:23 AM)LiptomaticMate Wrote:  You don't have to prove to me that you aren't what I think you are, as long as you yourself know that you can fix and maintain it. That's more important. No need to tell me why you aren't what I say you are, because it won't matter. You do know it, and you are aware of it, you probably aren't really fixing it, it will be an illusion or a futuristic change.

If you are as foolish as I think you are, I would have no means of proving it to you. I still have a point, but whether you are capable of finding it is none of my concern. What is my concern is that your indications of humankind being idiotic are incorrect (cue the "someone is WRONG on the Internet" picture), and that others may fail to understand the last point of what you've said because they'd be too busy being offended by the rest.

It is important that we improve ourselves. Just because it can be argued that we are good now does not mean that our future is automatically bright. We should strive to be better people, and ensure that those who don't are not capable of harming those who do.

Society also appears not to be ours, as though it is in the control of a few bad apples. Perhaps we should also divert our attention to taking it back. Whatever the case, it is interesting that more and more people are becoming attracted to something that doesn't even sound human.

[LiptomaticMate]

(12-26-2012 05:55 AM)DoA Wrote:  

(12-25-2012 06:23 AM)LiptomaticMate Wrote:  Humans are egoistic, selfish, arrogant bastards who without any consideration think about other creatures.

1. Incorrect. Humans are connected to each other in ways they may not be aware of, and benefit most from positive connection. We think of each other, and, despite being masters of all other creatures, still regard them with adoration (particularly pets). We're self-seeking for our own survival, but interdependent when it comes to thriving.
2. This has absolutely nothing to do with being dumb.

(12-25-2012 06:23 AM)LiptomaticMate Wrote:  We don't have to compare our dumbness to a creature or to some sort of source. We are dumb for the simple reasons of a our simpleness. We look upon us self as the most intelligent creature on the planet, and maybe we are. We modify nature to increase our own enjoyment, we evolve without considering noone and nothing.
We are not only dumb and stupid, but pathetic and arrogant.

Without any basis of comparison, we are neither dumb nor smart. Claiming that we are without any sort of control variable is a logical fallacy, perhaps even a logical paradox.

We are indeed the most intelligent creatures on the face of the earth, and do wonder if there is anything intelligent outside of Earth we can compare ourselves to. That's the whole reason I voted "No".

No creature has ever evolved. But that's beside the point - no creature has ever evolved in consideration of another, or to be nice. Humans have adapted to better suit their environments, sure, and some have even done so because it is better than adapting the environment itself. Factually speaking, however, we need to prioritize ourselves above nature because there isn't a statistic out there that puts our lifespan at any longer than nature's.

This "arrogance" talk, in relation to what you've said about our modification of nature, is the exact guilt-speak the Green Movement is spouting. Again, we need to focus on our own survival; nature can and has fended for itself.

(12-25-2012 06:23 AM)LiptomaticMate Wrote:  Every creature besides us which has it's body firmly placed or levitated on this planet is able to follow and respect the natures boundaries and limits. While we, humans, modern man, homo sapiens sapiens support war, by developing stronger and still better weapons, we still export weapons and earn money from it and countries are aware of this enmity, but we are doing it, because we are dumb, because we are dumb. Yes dumb. As always.

That first sentence sounds more like an argument for why we're the superior species.

In all honesty, we haven't breached any code of nature at all. We had the technology to fell trees and clear paths to build our civilization, and we did so, but more trees have sprung up (some of them actually inside the cities) and more paths have been blocked by more natural obstacles. It is possible for the nature/tech duality to have a decent balance.

And, I do apologize if I can't tell how the lucrative trade of arms equates to a lack of common sense; the only people not to win out are those who lack said common sense.

(Also, always is an absolute. It makes you sound as though you're not to be believed.)

(12-25-2012 06:23 AM)LiptomaticMate Wrote:  We encounter quarrels, battles, conflicts and still we solve them with bloodshed. Why, because we are D-U-M-B. Basically, we are pathetic. Also multiple times through our history as "the fantastic man kind" fuck that. Man kind and all that bullshit, animals and insect are more respectful than us. We egoistically behave around and towards people in the most unfashioned way to only make ourselves feel better, to obtain something which has no specific value to us besides material. Fuck us. Fuck me. Fuck you. Still there isn't much we can do about it. Make an illusion and accept it. Make the best out of our lifetime and try controlling ourselves.

Violence is our answer for those who would violently infringe upon the rights of their fellow man. It is not always wrongdoing itself, but tends to be the retribution for it. War and peace are two different options, and circumstances pending, one or the other would work just fine. War, more often than you might think.

We actually have a very specific recorded history because of our superiority to other species. Animals do not even have the emotional capacity to respect (although, to their merit, they can do other things than that).

Vulgarity, that's a good sign. You seem so sure of yourself.

...And then words that hardly make sense even in context. Not very articulate, are you?

(12-25-2012 06:23 AM)LiptomaticMate Wrote:  Only the 1/10 of a handful of humans on this planet has got near becoming what I call, "good".
Modern society has changed us, one place we started changing. Where? I don't know.
I do know that monkeys are simple and not very intelligent, and they do fight for the reasons of such as mating, fucking, sex, which is the same thing, food and women. Primitive, but they have something we have lost. I believe.
Still you're believing your smart. I'm very dumb, maybe the dumbest of most people on this site. I don't mind knowing that or characterizing myself as that. You furthermore feel you're better than that, and maybe you are, but you are then among a lot of other humans who also believe that.

47% of statistics are made up on the spot. /badjoke

We all have the capacity for good, just as we have the capacity for evil. It is the choice of the individual to choose which one to be (if not both). Calling all of us bad reflects poorly on the well-more-than-10% of people who are morally sound.

Modern society is not governed by the individual OR the people anymore, which is very odd indeed. I'm not even sure what it is, but I do know it casts a very negative reflection of the potentially positive, and is attempting to recruit more into its fold. If I may take a guess, however, I must say that you sound like that's the side you're on.

We have advanced. Whatever is "lost" is primal. I find the habits of a monkey highly irrational anyway.

Don't attempt to predict what I think of myself.

You're dumb? Well, in that instance, for once, I concur. For someone so dumb, though, you're certainly not lacking in insight - it just happens to be misguided (which, in turn, indicates how dumb you are). It can be remedied, if you are ready to stop being foolish.

Am I better than that? That's not for me to say; to judge myself would be unfair. I'm not sure where my mental standing is, but I do possess the desire to improve. Perhaps, if I am dumb now, I might not be later due to the strides I take towards understanding my surroundings.

In any case, you are attempting to predict human nature as though it is ordered. If it were ordered, we would all either be inherently bad or good, but instead we're a mix (and I'd like to think we're leaning good). Making sense of chaos is an amateur mistake.

(12-25-2012 06:23 AM)LiptomaticMate Wrote:  You don't have to prove to me that you aren't what I think you are, as long as you yourself know that you can fix and maintain it. That's more important. No need to tell me why you aren't what I say you are, because it won't matter. You do know it, and you are aware of it, you probably aren't really fixing it, it will be an illusion or a futuristic change.

If you are as foolish as I think you are, I would have no means of proving it to you. I still have a point, but whether you are capable of finding it is none of my concern. What is my concern is that your indications of humankind being idiotic are incorrect (cue the "someone is WRONG on the Internet" picture), and that others may fail to understand the last point of what you've said because they'd be too busy being offended by the rest.

It is important that we improve ourselves. Just because it can be argued that we are good now does not mean that our future is automatically bright. We should strive to be better people, and ensure that those who don't are not capable of harming those who do.

Society also appears not to be ours, as though it is in the control of a few bad apples. Perhaps we should also divert our attention to taking it back. Whatever the case, it is interesting that more and more people are becoming attracted to something that doesn't even sound human.

What are you trying to prove? That we are intelligent beyond compare? That we are as smart as we think we are? You have listed reason and argument after argument for why I am wrong, for why what I think is not right. I could and I may be, but that again makes me ponder? Are you afraid of being characterized as dumb? Do you rather want to be called the opposite?
Weather I've insulted, offended or made someone sad is quite unlikely considering that I've called myself dumb as well. I'm not saying I'm better rather worse, so there isn't much to be offended for. Also it is true that we change on the edge of the cliff, but still we will then later on history again return to our desired state. There are exceptions.

[Ky]

(12-26-2012 06:43 AM)LiptomaticMate Wrote:  What are you trying to prove? That we are intelligent beyond compare? That we are as smart as we think we are? You have listed reason and argument after argument for why I am wrong, for why what I think is not right. I could and I may be, but that again makes me ponder? Are you afraid of being characterized as dumb? Do you rather want to be called the opposite?
Weather I've insulted, offended or made someone sad is quite unlikely considering that I've called myself dumb as well. I'm not saying I'm better rather worse, so there isn't much to be offended for. Also it is true that we change on the edge of the cliff, but still we will then later on history again return to our desired state. There are exceptions.

What I'm saying is, it is blatantly obvious that we have the highest comparable intelligence among every categorized species. Not only that, but your arguments for why we aren't don't prove a thing. What you've said turned into a "fuck the world" speech (and, although the world does include you, guess what? You can still offend people with the "fuck you" part).

We're not returning to anything. The past is behind us, the future ahead, and we need to prepare. Instead of claiming we're all a lost cause, or that we're all dumb, look to what we've accomplished, cross it off the list, and encourage people to take the next step forward.

Some humans are stupid indeed, but that's very different from all ("with exceptions"). Trust in the intelligence of those of us who wonder whether we're doing the right thing, and don't take the cocky, hasty answers of fools as what humanity defines as wisdom.

[LiptomaticMate]

(12-26-2012 03:01 PM)DoA Wrote:  

(12-26-2012 06:43 AM)LiptomaticMate Wrote:  What are you trying to prove? That we are intelligent beyond compare? That we are as smart as we think we are? You have listed reason and argument after argument for why I am wrong, for why what I think is not right. I could and I may be, but that again makes me ponder? Are you afraid of being characterized as dumb? Do you rather want to be called the opposite?
Weather I've insulted, offended or made someone sad is quite unlikely considering that I've called myself dumb as well. I'm not saying I'm better rather worse, so there isn't much to be offended for. Also it is true that we change on the edge of the cliff, but still we will then later on history again return to our desired state. There are exceptions.

What I'm saying is, it is blatantly obvious that we have the highest comparable intelligence among every categorized species. Not only that, but your arguments for why we aren't don't prove a thing. What you've said turned into a "fuck the world" speech (and, although the world does include you, guess what? You can still offend people with the "fuck you" part).

We're not returning to anything. The past is behind us, the future ahead, and we need to prepare. Instead of claiming we're all a lost cause, or that we're all dumb, look to what we've accomplished, cross it off the list, and encourage people to take the next step forward.

Some humans are stupid indeed, but that's very different from all ("with exceptions"). Trust in the intelligence of those of us who wonder whether we're doing the right thing, and don't take the cocky, hasty answers of fools as what humanity defines as wisdom.

So what if we have the highest comparable intelligence among every categorized specie. It's obvious how immature we are communicating. I.e -> you and I Also who am I to make someone be offended. That's there decision to decide, and to be able to avoid offending absolutely everyone would have been very difficult when writing my first post. Yes indeed, the world is quite fucked up, and indeed you are quite optimistic about it. I haven't lost all hope, no I haven't and if you think that my text was a fuck the world speak well then that wasn't the point of it. Look what we have accomplished, could you name some? The past is not behind us, it will haunt us.
You write as you are the brightest and most optimistic fellow, like the future is enlightened and bright, but you are speaking like you're absent. People speak about how amazing humans are, how amazing this planet is, how fantastic life is, and all those illusion optimistic folks.
There are though some people who have different views and I guess who look at the worlds brightly, but do not completely lack "soul".
Actually it won't really matter weather we characterize ourselves as dumb or intelligent, it won't really matter, our actions speak for us. And well, I don't know what you think but I fell very dumb occasionally when I realize various stuff. Thinking about stuff which isn't always there to be seen, different chains.
Really it could also be a personal thing, for instance. You can look at yourself as smart and intelligent with room for improvement, while I can look at myself as dumb and still room for improvement. However, I don't believe that we are as intelligent as we think we are.

[SoulRiser]

Quote:Only the 1/10 of a handful of humans on this planet has got near becoming what I call, "good".

But you haven't met all the humans on this planet, have you?

There's a lot we don't know, we are only human and have probably only discovered a small fraction of everything the universe has to offer. As a whole, I wouldn't call us dumb, considering everything humanity has already discovered.

Then there's the wisdom and maturity thing, and yes, it does seem that a lot of people (maybe even most) are somewhat lacking in that area. Some people are really really REALLY unwise and immature. Can't argue with that. Some people make me want to murder them even (those people who would abuse their kids just for disagreeing with them, and stuff like that).

So yeah... humans as a whole are not dumb, but some of them are. And some are pretty smart. It also depends on your definition of smart... everyone is good at something at least, so they would be 'smart' in that area, and everyone is bad at something else, so they'd be 'dumb' in that area.

Depending on the people you spend time with, and how much you follow the news, your viewpoint will be biased according to what you see. Mostly see dumb people around you? You'll think most people are dumb. Mostly see smart people? You'll think most people are smart. You get the idea.

This is why I prefer to avoid watching the news as much as possible... it basically gives humanity a bad name. But it's only ever the worst cases that end up on the news, they never report the average people just going about their day, or even the good deeds people do. Basically just bad stuff... so the news is very very biased, and not a good indication of what's going on in the world. Just like the small handful of people you'll meet in your lifetime, compared to the billions you'll never get to know.

Solution: Avoid "dumb" people like the plague (literally), and refuse to associate with them, and only seek out smart people for company (according to whatever your definition of smart is).

[timf]

Quote:What did you more specifically mean in your previous reply. I'm not insulting you I hope, it's just that either you wrote that difficult for me to understand, or I simply have a problem in my brain or you just wrote that badly . Sorry though :(

1. I wrote that I agreed with you that there were other things besides intelligence that factored into an observation that people are dumb.

2. I wrote that I disagreed with the statement that people have to always remain in this state.

I suggested that people can be less "dumb" as a result of faith in Christ (as opposed to religion or church teachings).

I would also suggest that one way to measure group dumbness might be to see how far in debt a group of people is willing to go. By this measure, Americans as well as Europeans are getting dumber every year. From what I see, there is a relationship between Western civilization abandoning Christianity and an increase in group dumbness.

I share your pessimistic view of the world and people. Maybe not for the same reasons. However, my view does not leave me without hope.

[LiptomaticMate]

After thinking about it for some time more today and after posting a medium sized post I realized one thing, and it may quite possibly happen that most of you were trying to convince me about this, but either way here it goes.

After some thinking today after the "fair sized post (which is by now deleted)" I realized one thing. It doesn't really matter if we are imbecile, intelligent, full of potential or lack potential, smart or idiotic. There was no point really even starting the characterization of "us". We can discuss and realize that we are quite pathetic or quite intelligent, but it won't matter. Whatever we come up with it's we who decide what our actions's outcome is gonna be. Humans aren't dumb/pathetic and they aren't intelligent and smart, there is no point even reasoning with that, because we are so many on this planet and there are so many different people on this planet and of so many types. If someone is stupid or smart, doesn't change anything and I don't see any reason to even think about it anymore.
I take back what I said in previous posts and I say now that we could be intelligent beyond compare but not do anything about it, and we could also be stupid and do even less.

So basically I don't care anymore. Foolish or smart, I don't give a fuck anymore. Whatever we are, we decide ourselves what we want to be. No point, generalizing. No point reasoning or defining humans. Our actions are pathetic, we aren't. Monkeys aren't primitive, their actions are. So basically if the monkey started doing mathematics Calculus level he would automatically been seen as higher intelligent. If the monkey started friendly holding hands with humans he would automatically gain "soul" and friendliness in my eyes. Vice Versa if humans started polluting the earth with different toxic chemicals they would be considered selfish, but if they started using solar generated electricity I would look at those humans as "kind". However, not everyone has such opportunities to supplement themselves with green electricity, and it's expensive. So there are exceptions. "Thoughts, Actions and Feelings define a person/creature animal, except if there isn't something which stops him/she/it from expressing him/her/itself.

That was basically it, sorry for offending people, and sorry for if/any daily frustration I've given you.

[Ky]

^ So, in other words, you concede the argument. Thank you.

[vonunov]

Yeah, a lot of people are pretty damn stupid, at least in terms of thinking critically and following basic instructions.

Source: Tech support

Caveat: Sample bias

[LiptomaticMate]

Well I've at least resolved my mental bias . Super Super Super Feliz.

[Luizao876]

Humans can be quite dumb, and can be quite smart. Just like this argument started smart and it became dumb.

[Sunbourn]

We humans alone have the strength to modify nature according to our needs. Other animals must wait for thousands or more generations to adapt to nature, but we alone are able to modify it within a single generation so that we may thrive in nearly any environment on our planet, and at least survive in some of the other more extreme environments. The exception that we have not yet conquered is our deep oceans, but we have even been able to venture to great depths with the aid of our technology. It is our selfishness that provides the fuel for us to apply our intelligence. Our selfishness to be the creature that survives and the creature that thrives above all else. Over time our ability to develop buildings, electronics, and many other things we take for granted such as air conditioning has given us a standard of life not possible for other creatures because their brains simply aren't elastic enough to think of it, and their bodies often aren't capable of adapting their environment significantly either.

In our time on this planet we have caused many other species to become extinct. Some curse mankind for this, but I have realized that this is nothing for our species to be ashamed of. We aren't the first species to drive another to extinction. It happens in nature all of the time. One species out-competes another for resources, and the other either evolves to fill in a new niche or dies off. We of course should avoid it in cases where it is senseless though, such as the hunting of rhinos for their ivory tusks. We do not need their ivory tusks to survive. It isn't a food source, and it in itself does not provide a better quality of life for us. It provides status for those who hunt it and own items made from it, nothing more.

I draw the line between intelligent and stupid actions by asking the question "Is this action senseless?" That is, does that action benefit the human, or humanity in general, enough to warrant doing so? Many things which may seem stupid to an outsider are done for a reason. We cut down billions of trees per year. On the surface this may seem unreasonable, but these trees provide us with shelter for our comfort and survival, paper so that we can write down our thoughts and spread our knowledge to other human beings, fuel for the fires that warm us during winter,...and numerous other uses.

I appreciate nature in itself, but I also appreciate man's ability to conquer nature.