I thought just like you when I was young

[LiptomaticMate]

Ever experienced your parents telling you that all your thoughts about school and job and all the shit you "think" school is teaching you is only temporary and will dissapear when you grow up.

Is this really true, how the hell did and why did they start realizing that they actually thought school was good. External influence maybe, too little pushing?

Do all of us on this forum risk that happening to us. Changing our vision on school. I am aware of that some certain thoughts which you develop when were young can be somewhat ridiculous, but not at all of them.
Now is it really true thay our parents also hated school when they were young and then changed when they grew up.

What made them change them.
I know SoulRiser didn't change. WHY?
WHy did my parents change their ascpects on school.
Maybe they're lying.

Parents telling me. We've been there son, we were also like you when we were young. We also didn't like school, but all that is going to change when you grow up. Then they burst some of my dreaming ballons, by saying. Your dream of travelling aroudn the world working where you can find work isn't gonna work.

....

[Sunbourn]

It seems a lot better to them in hindsight after going out in to the world and getting shitty jobs which they hate because they were convinced in school that it's better for them to go for the job that brings in the dough despite its dullness rather than following their dreams. Soul is doing something she likes (running websites) and gets enough money to live off of from it, so for her opposing this commonly held viewpoint worked.

[LiptomaticMate]

I had a feeling of that they just became suppressed by pressure.
Still they are telling me that they like their jobs? However I'm not sure if I believe them. :(
Also how do you know that this won't happen to you or that they maybe actually are correct?

[Sunbourn]

Because my beliefs and convictions aren't based on what I feel alone but also on solid logic. It would take some serious logic to undo it.

There's pressure as well, because it is at this point the accepted view in society that we need to go to school and learn the same things that everybody else learns for twelve years. Who are you to go against the accepted view?

[LiptomaticMate]

I agree. I hope and I'm right now were convinced and focused on not ending up being a "liker" of school when I grow up.
By dreams and hopes, thoughts and etc are way to strong to feel the need that kids are taken 20 years from their life to go to school when we are going to die maybe 50 years later. :( :@

[Ky]

Finding work by traveling the world over isn't a very ludicrous dream anymore in this time period. There are plenty such occupations.

Yes, I have been wondering whether becoming more "mature" (read: snobbish, egoistic, whatever is the dominant attitude in adult American society) would cause me to desert the views I have. Immaturity is described as selfishness, but I see it as a pragmatic selfishness that enables me to put my needs in front of the needs of the system, which is necessary if you plan to leave the system.

...I hope I don't think I'm wrong in five years.

[timf]

Quote:What made them change them.
I know SoulRiser didn't change. WHY?

There is a famous film they show in almost every psychology class about an experiment that was done on college students. The students were divided into two groups. The first had to put pegs in holes and was paid $1/hr. for the work. The second group did the same work but was paid $10/hr. (this was many decades ago). Each group was then filmed explaining the work to new students. The students from the first group would say how interesting and challenging the work was. The students from the second group would say the work was boring and stupid, but at least it was $10/hr. From this experiment the term "cognitive dissonance" was derived.

The study concluded that people are unable to keep in their mind something that is intrinsically contradictory. For example, if I work in a job that I think is stupid, I will eventually quit or I will start to think the job is really good. This is often referred to as "selling out".

Students are a little more likely to see the education / work / government machine as it is because it is not something that they chose. As the years pass and people start to make more choices, they begin to adapt themselves to the machine.

The machine is designed so that the path of least resistance is to accept and even embrace the machine. To cling to truth often requires effort, economic hardship, and social marginalization.

The average high school student may look at his fellow students and observe that more than 80% of his classmates have already accepted the machine and their role in it.

The student who wants to or even feels he has to walk the path of truth, will find fewer and fewer peers who are like minded.

For those who cannot accept the machine, there are some alternatives. Prisons are full of people who rebel against the machine. They are there because they have not mastered control of themselves or allowed alcohol to take control of them at an inopportune time.

However, there are many other paths available. People who have a marketable skill can sometimes find ways to sell their skills to others over the Internet. Some follow a trade like welding or plumbing and find a niche where they can minimize their contact with the machine. Others find that since legal labor is so hard to find that they can work construction or odd jobs and actually make a living. The key here is to keep costs low.

The machine is still growing. It wants to control every aspect of life. As it seeks out those who are resistant, the friendships, networks, and contacts with those who also seek to survive outside the machine will become more and more important. The time may even come when those who have found a way to survive in rural areas may want to take in those few left who wish to flee the machine as almost refugees.

[LiptomaticMate]

(12-23-2012 02:29 AM)DoA Wrote:  Finding work by traveling the world over isn't a very ludicrous dream anymore in this time period. There are plenty such occupations.

Yes, I have been wondering whether becoming more "mature" (read: snobbish, egoistic, whatever is the dominant attitude in adult American society) would cause me to desert the views I have. Immaturity is described as selfishness, but I see it as a pragmatic selfishness that enables me to put my needs in front of the needs of the system, which is necessary if you plan to leave the system.

...I hope I don't think I'm wrong in five years.

Immaturity which my parents think of as both childishness and selfishness when done by me. ¨
I consider childishness, irrationality, and unreasonability over matureness, rationality and reasonability. I really don't see the point making everything so realistic when I live so short. This though doesn't mean I'm like this the ENTIRE time, I adapt respectively.
When you forget being a kid, you grow up
- I still don't remember where I found that quote. Or If I ever did find it somewhere.
Anywho, the quote has some truth in it.
Matureness is really a mistreated and poorly used word by grown-ups and parents.

"Oh, look at those kids there, playing like that, rolling on the floor. So immature and foolish. How pathetic teenagers are these days." FUCK YOU

[LiptomaticMate]

(12-23-2012 03:27 AM)timf Wrote:  

Quote:What made them change them.
I know SoulRiser didn't change. WHY?

There is a famous film they show in almost every psychology class about an experiment that was done on college students. The students were divided into two groups. The first had to put pegs in holes and was paid $1/hr. for the work. The second group did the same work but was paid $10/hr. (this was many decades ago). Each group was then filmed explaining the work to new students. The students from the first group would say how interesting and challenging the work was. The students from the second group would say the work was boring and stupid, but at least it was $10/hr. From this experiment the term "cognitive dissonance" was derived.

The study concluded that people are unable to keep in their mind something that is intrinsically contradictory. For example, if I work in a job that I think is stupid, I will eventually quit or I will start to think the job is really good. This is often referred to as "selling out".

Students are a little more likely to see the education / work / government machine as it is because it is not something that they chose. As the years pass and people start to make more choices, they begin to adapt themselves to the machine.

The machine is designed so that the path of least resistance is to accept and even embrace the machine. To cling to truth often requires effort, economic hardship, and social marginalization.

The average high school student may look at his fellow students and observe that more than 80% of his classmates have already accepted the machine and their role in it.

The student who wants to or even feels he has to walk the path of truth, will find fewer and fewer peers who are like minded.

For those who cannot accept the machine, there are some alternatives. Prisons are full of people who rebel against the machine. They are there because they have not mastered control of themselves or allowed alcohol to take control of them at an inopportune time.

However, there are many other paths available. People who have a marketable skill can sometimes find ways to sell their skills to others over the Internet. Some follow a trade like welding or plumbing and find a niche where they can minimize their contact with the machine. Others find that since legal labor is so hard to find that they can work construction or odd jobs and actually make a living. The key here is to keep costs low.

The machine is still growing. It wants to control every aspect of life. As it seeks out those who are resistant, the friendships, networks, and contacts with those who also seek to survive outside the machine will become more and more important. The time may even come when those who have found a way to survive in rural areas may want to take in those few left who wish to flee the machine as almost refugees.

Now aware of this possible cause, I will assure myself to not let this happen and I've already done A LOOOT, by joining this wonderful forum.

However I don't understand when exactly did "our" parents start "liking" school. At what point? And who is most often the first to start these "likings". Everyone or most school students don't like school at first or in the middle of it. Some do of course, but you?

[GreenLamp]

>Parents go to school
>Parents hate school
>Parents learn basic reading+math skills
>Parents come out with job
>Parents make money
>Parents make family
>Parents pressured and heavily influenced by society
>Parents want bright futures for children
= Parents believe school is good for kids

[LiptomaticMate]

Parents have lost something, what they've lost I do not know. Maybe we are the ones which haven't got what we should have. However that would be a strong controversial belief which would be suppressed by a lot of my own thoughts, hopes, beliefs, opinions, wishes, dreams, hobbies and everything I love :(

[SoulRiser]

It's probably because most people get crappy jobs and don't seem to realize that they generally have the freedom to quit and find better jobs, so they stay stuck in the same shitty routine for years, and start to think that school was better for whatever reason. Maybe they had friends and did more fun things back then or something.

I'm having loads more free time and fun now than I ever did in school. Other people can have this too, but apparently most people feel safer with the predictability of a routine "stable" job (no such thing).