What do you think of the US education system?

[eavesdrop]

What do you think of the US education system?

What's your experience with it? Are you a parent, a teacher, a staff member, an advocate, a product of the system, etc?

What changes would you like to see made, and how do you think those changes need to come about?

Any other thoughts?

[AtheistLGBTQAnarchist]

It sucks like heil.

[Ky]

Currently a disillusioned student. I'd much prefer to be a scholar than a so-called student.

[GreenLamp]

It's a horrible place.

I'm a student.

Instead of schools, we need large libraries filled with resources, like textbooks and Internet access. Children are more than capable of nurturing their own curiosities. They just need info and a helping hand when needed.

What I want to know is how obedience and authority became a part of education, and why people allow it without question.

[Ky]

^ There should be something to set schools apart from libraries, though. Maybe teaching positions could work a little bit more like...colleges, let's say: Teachers give lectures on their strong subject, and people can choose to attend and take notes. No tests, no authority, just learning. That would also give people an excuse not to listen to a boring teacher.

[GreenLamp]

^ Hey that's a pretty good idea

[SomeRandomHuman]

(11-24-2012 09:56 AM)DoA Wrote:  ^ There should be something to set schools apart from libraries, though. Maybe teaching positions could work a little bit more like...colleges, let's say: Teachers give lectures on their strong subject, and people can choose to attend and take notes. No tests, no authority, just learning. That would also give people an excuse not to listen to a boring teacher.

GOOD IDEA!

[AtheistLGBTQAnarchist]

You know what's funny? The fact that MY SCHOOL CAN AFFORD A MILLION CAMERAS AND A MILLION OF THE WORST COMPUTERS EVER(AKA ALL SCHOOL COMPUTERS)BUT THEY CAN EVEN AFFORD A LIBRARY! WE CAN'T EVEN USE THE ONE IN HIGH SCHOOL THAT'S RIGHT NEXT TO THE MIDDLE SCHOOL BUILDING! I NEED MY BOOKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!​!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!​!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Miller0700]

Looks good on paper, horrible in action.

[Ky]

(11-24-2012 02:31 PM)Miller0700 Wrote:  Looks good on paper, horrible in action.

What does?

Quote:I'm one of two people that say DoA has a good idea, and...

Let me just stop you there. We have a thanks button.

[Miller0700]

(11-24-2012 03:37 PM)DoA Wrote:  What does?

The method of educating our youth.

[SmokeyTheAggie]

Boring and irrelevant as hell. Nuff said.

[Ky]

(11-24-2012 03:52 PM)Miller0700 Wrote:  

(11-24-2012 03:37 PM)DoA Wrote:  What does?

The method of educating our youth.

Come to think of it, it doesn't look good on paper, either. Perhaps few notice because few care.

[Potato]

libraries? you talking about e-books?

[TheCancer]

I think you really have to see it from the perspective of a teacher at a low income school to understand how deeply broken and adversarial the system is. Sometimes it feels like the whole system is predicated on hostility between students and teachers. Students get to the point where they EXPECT to be yelled at and teachers start yelling at the students even before offering civil greetings. "Get in this classroom, sit down, and be quiet!" has replaced, "Good morning!" And because it seems unorthodox to be polite and not unnecessarily demanding with the students, many students take civil behavior as a weakness instead of a strength. Only the most skilled teachers create a sense of rapport and common goal with the lower echelon of the academic stratum. And even when that is achieved it is usually unrecognized or even punished by administration.

As for what needs to be changed, nothing should be compulsory. No student should be forced to be in my room nor should I be forced to babysit students who return respect and kindness with brutal and idiotic hostility.

[AtheistLGBTQAnarchist]

The ones who threaten violence over another in other to gain their control, is truly the weakest of them all.

[no]

(11-24-2012 10:09 PM)TheCancer Wrote:  I think you really have to see it from the perspective of a teacher at a low income school to understand how deeply broken and adversarial the system is.

I think I have to disagree. My mother works at just about the poorest school in our area, yet believes the fundamental principles of the system to be perfectly sound, "we just need more money," as if that will help the problems inherent in any compulsory system. On the other hand I began to notice the flaws around the fifth grade (none of the administration and few of the teachers spoke of students as if they deserved respect) and the adversarial nature made itself apparent around three years ago, before I had ever heard of this site or heard anyone voice complaints about the situation. That was just about the beginning of the Cornell note craze *twitch* that forced students to take unhelpful notes in the name of uniformity.

[TheCancer]

I didn't say that everyone or even MOST people in poor districts believe that compulsory schooling should be abolished. Your mother's opinion is certainly a popular one. But if you've only attended middle class white schools, believe me, you don't know how nasty it can get. For the record, is your mother's school 100% free lunch and at least 98% black? Because that's the demographic I'm talking about.

[Potato]

"I think you really have to see it from the perspective of a teacher at a low income school to understand how deeply broken and adversarial the system is."

the system is not only broken, it's completely obsolete. it's the equivalent of hiring millions of medieval heralds instead of using email. no offense.

[TheCancer]

(11-25-2012 03:17 AM)Potato Wrote:  "I think you really have to see it from the perspective of a teacher at a low income school to understand how deeply broken and adversarial the system is."

the system is not only broken, it's completely obsolete. it's the equivalent of hiring millions of medieval heralds instead of using email. no offense.

None taken. I don't disagree. If I could find work as a medieval herald I would happily take the upgrade.

[no]

(11-25-2012 03:12 AM)TheCancer Wrote:  I didn't say that everyone or even MOST people in poor districts believe that compulsory schooling should be abolished. Your mother's opinion is certainly a popular one. But if you've only attended middle class white schools, believe me, you don't know how nasty it can get. For the record, is your mother's school 100% free lunch and at least 98% black? Because that's the demographic I'm talking about.

I've only attended relatively-to-very poor, primarily black schools, actually, where my own skill is drowned out by hundreds struggling to pass basic classes. (For the record, I don't think that passing absurd and contrived classes matters in the least, but others' opinion of me is almost completely founded upon it, which is why this annoys me.) And yes, that's basically the demographic of her school. I think there might be four or five kids not on free lunch, though, but it's a tiny minority.

[TheCancer]

(11-25-2012 03:27 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  

(11-25-2012 03:12 AM)TheCancer Wrote:  I didn't say that everyone or even MOST people in poor districts believe that compulsory schooling should be abolished. Your mother's opinion is certainly a popular one. But if you've only attended middle class white schools, believe me, you don't know how nasty it can get. For the record, is your mother's school 100% free lunch and at least 98% black? Because that's the demographic I'm talking about.

I've only attended relatively-to-very poor, primarily black schools, actually, where my own skill is drowned out by hundreds struggling to pass basic classes. (For the record, I don't think that passing absurd and contrived classes matters in the least, but others' opinion of me is almost completely founded upon it, which is why this annoys me.) And yes, that's basically the demographic of her school. I think there might be four or five kids not on free lunch, though, but it's a tiny minority.

Fair enough. You have my full respect for seeing it all for the garbage that it is. Good luck and stay strong.

[eavesdrop]

I was suicidal about having to go to school until I got OUT of the almost-all-white, middle-to-upper-middle class school district. The kids who excelled were the ones who's parents A) had time to sit there every evening and practically do their kids schoolwork for them and B) knew how to advocate for them and it also helped to have money for stuff like outside tutors and summer enrichment programs. Everyone else got their butts kicked. I lost ALL of my friends after I got kicked out of the "gifted" program. No one wanted to even look at me after that. There was a TON of pressure to get the gifted label and kids who couldn't get high enough test scores or teacher recommendations to get in were overdosing on pills over it (I'm not making this up). Most of the teachers had scapegoats who they turned the rest of the class against and I could go on and on. After my family moved and I was zoned for what were called "the ghetto schools" it wasn't anywhere near as bad. Oh, and I actually learned something there. I like the black kids better. They're more fun.

[IamNoone]

Experience: Caused me a ton of problems with anxiety, but I needed to go for my career.

What do I think:Indoctrination at it's finest. Like a factory, we are manufactured to be gears in the machine that is the American Empire.

Changes and how to make them: The whole US government has to be torn down and built back up from scratch. School is just a part of it. The main thi we need for schools to change is to destroy the USA's world domination. We need another cold war to drive the government to need an educated populace.

Other thoughts: How do REALLY fat people have sex?

[TheCancer]

(11-25-2012 06:27 AM)eavesdrop Wrote:  I was suicidal about having to go to school until I got OUT of the almost-all-white, middle-to-upper-middle class school district. The kids who excelled were the ones who's parents A) had time to sit there every evening and practically do their kids schoolwork for them and B) knew how to advocate for them and it also helped to have money for stuff like outside tutors and summer enrichment programs. Everyone else got their butts kicked. I lost ALL of my friends after I got kicked out of the "gifted" program. No one wanted to even look at me after that. There was a TON of pressure to get the gifted label and kids who couldn't get high enough test scores or teacher recommendations to get in were overdosing on pills over it (I'm not making this up). Most of the teachers had scapegoats who they turned the rest of the class against and I could go on and on. After my family moved and I was zoned for what were called "the ghetto schools" it wasn't anywhere near as bad. Oh, and I actually learned something there. I like the black kids better. They're more fun.

Very informative. I guess I have admit, since I've only worked in ghetto schools I can't speak for rich kid schools. Now, I went to a rich kid school decades ago but that was a different world. We did have gifted but I never took any interest in anything except the easiest path to get done with the day and get out and start having fun. The experience of really caring about grades didn't enter my mind. I just wanted to have fun. I want the students I teach today to enjoy school. That's why I pass everyone. Life trumps school.