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is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?
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Potato Offline
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Post: #1
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

my opinion is that: it doesn't matter who you are, it doesn't matter if you're named jesus, you don't have the right to stay inside someone else's home without permission- you don't have the right to stay in someone else's body without permission. i think that it's moral that women should have the right to kick whomever they want out of their own body, because it results in less suffering for the women, and the fetus won't feel a thing in death
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2012 02:39 PM by Potato.)
11-18-2012 02:36 PM
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Miller0700 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

I believe so. Even if I refused and protested, it all came down to her decision.

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11-18-2012 02:44 PM
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Night Offline
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Post: #3
RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

Of course. I'm pro-choice.
The way I see it, What if it was rape? What if the woman can't afford another mouth to feed? And the obvious what if it was detrimental to the woman's health? And what if the woman just wasn't mentally/emotionally/etc. ready for a baby?

In that way it's immoral to outlaw abortion.
Of course lots of people can say "well why don't you just give it up for adoption"
It's not that easy. With adoption you actually have to have the baby. Meaning you have to go through 9 months of puking, nausea, being tired, peeing every 5 minutes, blah blah blah blah blah. And then the baby is born and a lot of women regret their decision at that moment to adopt. And if not you're faced with all the repercussions of giving birth, stretch marks, weight gain, possible inability to lose weigh, some women have to get stitches in there! A woman's body is never the same after giving birth.

But again, it all comes down to her decision. And whatever that decision may be, i don't care. Your body, your rules.

Personally, because of my age, stage in life, financial situation, situation with my boyfriend never being home. I'd abort. Course then I face the decision of telling my boyfriend I'm pregnant. Because he would LOVE to have baby. He might not like it if i wanted an abortion.

Thank god for birth control.

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Post: #4
RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

The world has 7 billion people. It's immoral not to have an abortion.

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11-18-2012 04:57 PM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #5
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

Except for cases of rape, if it's in her body in the first place, it's most likely because she did something to put it there (or was too careless/irresponsible/stupid to prevent it).

So, I don't think she has a "right" to "kick it out", but on the other hand, it's probably a good idea if she does, so the poor baby doesn't have to have her as a mother (or be adopted or abandoned or whatever). It'd be better off being born with someone else...

I have absolutely zero sympathy for irresponsible idiots who 'get knocked up' and then go all "WAAAAH it's my body I have a right to kick that fetus out!" Fuck you, don't be a moron and avoid getting pregnant in the first place! But yes, please do have an abortion, we wouldn't want your genes spreading around, now would we?

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Post: #6
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

If we want to give an answer, we have to look at what life is to start with. At what point is the fetus "human" or "alive." When is it considered alive? There have been cases of babies born 3 months early that survive, so does that mean the baby is alive at that point? Is it alive when it is intelligent enough to contemplate its own existence? It it alive by definition when the egg i fertilized? Scientifically, there are no real answers, except that it is technically alive from the moment of conception.

Personally, I think abortions should only be legal in the first term, beyond that you're stuck with it and need to give it a chance at life.

The purpose of life is a life with a purpose
So I’d rather die for a cause than live a life that is worthless
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11-19-2012 03:03 AM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #7
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

...Sheesh, denying future human beings the right to life? That's as bad, if not worse, as denying fairly new human beings the freedom from imprisonment.

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11-19-2012 03:58 AM
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Miller0700 Offline
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RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

Define human and when human life actually starts.

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11-19-2012 04:19 AM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #9
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

^ That's inconsequential, at least as to WHEN it starts. Assuming it starts right at birth, getting an abortion prevents the birth from occurring. That means a human being isn't introduced into the world, even though they should have been.

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11-19-2012 04:26 AM
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Post: #10
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

You guys support abortion, but If your parents wanted to,kill you , because they didn't want you in their house, you would be different

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11-19-2012 05:15 AM
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RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

(11-19-2012 04:26 AM)DoA Wrote:  ^ That's inconsequential, at least as to WHEN it starts. Assuming it starts right at birth, getting an abortion prevents the birth from occurring. That means a human being isn't introduced into the world, even though they should have been.
So if I cut my balls off, did I just kill billions of babies that could have been introduced into the world even though they should have been?

The purpose of life is a life with a purpose
So I’d rather die for a cause than live a life that is worthless
I don’t need the circus or the day of national observance
I need you to think for you and stop being a servant
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11-19-2012 11:29 AM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #12
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

^ Nope, because you're a man. More on why (one man + 50 women) > (50 men + one woman).

Sperm =/= egg, anyway, and cutting your balls off would probably offer you the most pain.

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11-19-2012 11:32 AM
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Miller0700 Offline
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RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

(11-19-2012 04:26 AM)DoA Wrote:  Assuming it starts right at birth, getting an abortion prevents the birth from occurring. That means a human being isn't introduced into the world, even though they should have been.

Why? What makes the existence of a fetus more important than the person whom it spawned from? This person has the ultimate say on what happens to it.

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11-19-2012 11:55 AM
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Ky Offline
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RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

(11-19-2012 11:55 AM)Derchin Wrote:  
(11-19-2012 04:26 AM)DoA Wrote:  Assuming it starts right at birth, getting an abortion prevents the birth from occurring. That means a human being isn't introduced into the world, even though they should have been.

Why? What makes the existence of a fetus more important than the person whom it spawned from? This person has the ultimate say on what happens to it.
The life of a human-to-be is certainly more important that the mere preference of those who carry them.

In any case, the U.S. federal government should have no say here, anyway. It should be up to each individual state to pass legislation on this.

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11-19-2012 11:59 AM
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RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

(11-19-2012 11:59 AM)DoA Wrote:  The life of a human-to-be is certainly more important that the mere preference of those who carry them.

Beg to differ.


(11-19-2012 11:59 AM)DoA Wrote:  In any case, the U.S. federal government should have no say here, anyway. It should be up to each individual state to pass legislation on this.

Agreed.

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11-19-2012 12:29 PM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #16
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

it doesn't matter if you're carrying a full grown human being, a parasite doesn't have the right to someone else's body just because it's a parasite. it is its own problem that it can't survive without a host. being a parasite does not give you the RIGHT to a host. that's my argument from property rights.

secondly, the argument from morality, to simply let the fetus die outside of its host results in less suffering than forcing a person to give birth.

"The life of a human-to-be is certainly more important that the mere preference of those who carry them."

more important to the fetus, probably. the life of a pig is also more important to itself than a human's craving for meat, but who cares.

"In any case, the U.S. federal government should have no say here, anyway. It should be up to each individual state to pass legislation on this."

why didn't they just leave it to the states to figure out whether to allow slavery?
11-19-2012 01:54 PM
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4r4b7 Away
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Post: #17
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

So according to you guys, my parents can kill me while im asleep, and kick me out of the house, and its right.

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11-19-2012 04:09 PM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #18
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

"So according to you guys, my parents can kill me while im asleep, and kick me out of the house, and its right."

no, they can't kill you because it's murder. but they should have the right to kick you out of their house, because it's their property and they worked for it. and if you die in the streets because you were unable to survive without someone else providing for you, then its your own damn fault. same with a fetus, it is its own damn fault that it is a PARASITE that cannot survive without a host. letting it die is not the same as killing it.
11-19-2012 05:35 PM
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Post: #19
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

^So why can a parent kill a fetus?

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11-19-2012 06:40 PM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #20
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

"^So why can a parent kill a fetus?"

why can't you read my full response? a parent does NOT kill a fetus, she simply kicks it out of her own body, whatever happens afterwards (the fetus will die because its a parasite that cannot survive on its own) is not her problem.
we cannot allow the government to force you to accept homeless people into your home; similarly, we cannot allow the government to force women to keep whatever it is (fetus or full grown human being) inside of her own body.

"Sperm =/= egg, anyway, and cutting your balls off would probably offer you the most pain."

an egg dies every time a women goes through her cycle without getting pregnant. so did she just kill a baby by not becoming pregnant?
11-19-2012 07:23 PM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #21
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

I don't really see the link between property and fetuses here. I mean, I can see how you're trying to link the two, but it's really not the same thing at all.

It only becomes a fetus/baby when an egg and sperm get together. When they're apart they're just two seperate things. Kind of like how epoxy glue is just two seperate gooey gels that don't really do much until you mix them.

Wow, some people are fucked up... I mean, I don't like babies, and I sure as hell never want to get pregnant, but even I wouldn't consider a fetus a 'parasite' that should 'learn to live without a host' or whatever. That's not how it works. A fetus CANNOT learn to live "without a host"... not until it grows a lot more and gets ready. It WILL die. Kicking it out IS killing it... there is no way for it to live.

You can't force nature to behave differently all of a sudden just because you think the fetus shouldn't be there. Work with what you CAN control... the woman can choose whether or not to get pregnant in the first place (most of the time), and after that, she's actually got another living critter inside her.

I don't like killing things, so I would prefer it if people actually took that responsibility seriously... it's a big deal. Not something to just throw out if you don't feel like keeping it anymore. People should just use protection if they don't want to get pregnant. More than one type of protection if they REALLY don't want to get pregnant. It's really not that hard to prevent... there's almost no excuse for having abortions in my mind (except rape and maybe double contraception failure and other totally unforseeable things I can't think of right now... for everything else... planning ahead really isn't that hard).

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Ky Offline
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Post: #22
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

...We humans ARE somewhat parasitic. Don't isolate fetuses on this.

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11-20-2012 09:19 AM
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Miller0700 Offline
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RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

Somewhat.

Fetuses fit this trope to the teeth.

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11-20-2012 09:27 AM
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Ky Offline
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is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

Well, hey. Fetuses aren't begging their parents for new clothes or videogames.

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11-20-2012 09:42 AM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #25
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

"People should just use protection if they don't want to get pregnant."

sure it would be easier to not get pregnant in the first place but that's not even the point.

"Kicking it out IS killing it... there is no way for it to live."

isn't that the definition of parasite? the point is that JUST BECAUSE it cannot live on it's own does NOT make it ENTITLED to someone else's body. if some kid grows up and becomes too lazy/incompetent to get a job and therefore come to lack all of the things necessary to meet the basic living standards, does that make him ENTITLED to his parents money?

"I don't like killing things, so I would prefer it if people actually took that responsibility seriously... it's a big deal."

this whole "all life is sacred" nonsense has absolutely no basis in logic. a fetus IS just an insignificant, parasitic, COMPLETELY MINDLESS lump of cells- why can't people take it for what it ACTUALLY IS instead of what it "could" become after playing parasite for many months inside of someone else's body? unless if all the women in this world strived to not miss a single chance at pregnancy, there WILL be "potential" persons who never will have a chance at life. therefore, it can only be the duty of the government to protect the liberties of the people, not the "potential" people.
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11-20-2012 09:51 AM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #26
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

i guess this is the moral argument: since a fetus cannot suffer but grown person can, less suffering would exist where abortion is a legally a protected right.
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Post: #27
RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

Okay, so everything's just a bunch of cells to you. How are you enjoying life on earth so far? Found anything significant or meaningful yet, you lump of cells that just so happens to have grown enough to be able to type on forums?

If trying to preserve life whenever possible has no basis in logic, where'd all this survival instinct come from? Things have a built in will to want to survive, so I don't see why we shouldn't cooperate and help other creatures live whenever possible. Besides, what feels better, helping some defenseless creature, or killing it? I prefer helping it, whether that means not aborting a fetus, or fishing a drowning moth out of water and putting it on dry land (yes, I actually do that). It feels good to help things, so I do it. That's my logic right there... I do what feels good and avoid what feels bad. Should even be simple enough for a lump of cells to understand.

I'm not saying women shouldn't be legally able to have abortions if they want to, btw. They should be able to. But they should be responsible enough to avoid feeling the need to in the first place.

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Post: #28
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

Also, the difference between a parasite and a fetus is that for the fetus to exist, the mother had to actually do something to put it there. There was (usually) choice involved. Parasites just show up uninvited. Fetuses generally do not.

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Post: #29
RE: is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

(11-20-2012 09:42 AM)DoA Wrote:  Well, hey. Fetuses aren't begging their parents for new clothes or videogames.

Parasites depends on things that are well...important to is survival.




*Oh and new clothes=clothes that are in trend.

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11-20-2012 10:03 AM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #30
is it moral for women to have the right to abortion?

"I'm not saying women shouldn't be legally able to have abortions if they want to, btw. They should be able to. But they should be responsible enough to avoid feeling the need to in the first place."

then we agree
11-20-2012 10:04 AM
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