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Maybe We Should Start Something
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Subb Offline
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Post: #1
Maybe We Should Start Something

I don't know. I just think we should stop complaining and start reforming. The thing is, WE ARE SO CLOSE. And yet, so far. Pretty much EVERYONE that's in school hates it, but they've been told all their lives that school is good. It terrible!! Maybe i'm being too optimistic, but I think we can DO SOMETHING to get the ball rolling. Just one little thing; a boycott, a protest, a damn FACEBOOK POST can erupt into a revolution. Maybe I'm crazy, but it isn't hopeless. We just need to do something.


11/17- Wow. Someone put this as important? Thank you!!!

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(This post was last modified: 11-18-2012 08:04 AM by Subb.)
11-16-2012 11:07 AM
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Post: #2
Maybe We Should Start Something

I've been saying the same thing for a while and haven't gotten all that far, but hey. If we keep trying, one of us might leave a mark.

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11-16-2012 11:09 AM
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Post: #3
Maybe We Should Start Something

I got it. We need someone famous. An author, a musician, maybe even a martyr. We need someone to get up into the mainstream and preach. That person doesn't need to preach from the get go; S/he needs to get popular first and pander to impressionable teens. Once that person is at their PEAK, we lay it on them. We can't make the sheep leave the flock on their own, but we CAN change the shepherd. But alas, what are the chances of that happening?

Anyone else have any ideas?

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(This post was last modified: 11-16-2012 01:30 PM by Subb.)
11-16-2012 11:40 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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Post: #4
Maybe We Should Start Something

I've been saying and thinking the same thing for a *long* time. However, I think we are closer than ever. Many teachers, professors, authors, and so on have speaking and writing about this more over the past year than ever before. Higher education is changing, as well, which has implications for questioning how earlier levels of school works.

My general idea is to create a television or web series, that is combined with college-level lecture topics and inputs from various experts. The idea is to make it not just a show, but an interactive transmedia experience that encourages people to submit stories and situations for discussion and even inclusion in the show.

One inspiration is applying business improvement reality show approaches, like Kitchen Nightmares, to schools or other educational situations that just aren't working. More and more teachers realize the problems with factory model schools in today's age, and many are working to reform things, but often the methods used are limited, and don't take into account enough perspectives. Putting cameras on multiple people, getting their perspectives, backstories, worldviews, and hopes and dreams, and asking if things can work differently is one way to both entertain, and maybe change things as never before possible.

Consider some of these references -- it may look like just a list of links, but take a few hours to dig in and consider how many people are asking some of the same questions:

Was the $5 Billion Worth It?A decade into his record-breaking education philanthropy, Bill Gates talks teachers, charters—and regrets.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...79948.html

Nikhil Goyal, 17-year-old high school student and author:
http://nikhilgoyal.me/book/

Check out Nikhil's TEDx talks:

Stop Waiting for the World to Change - Nikhil Goyal at TEDxRedmond
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JVlwb9cqYU

Why Kids Hate School?: Nikhil Goyal at TEDxYouth@BFS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEvg2zBYWtU

TEDxGlobalLearningSchool - Nikhil Goyal - So You Say You Want a Learning Revolution
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8b_5vJHgs4

Dale Stephens of http://uncollege.org has several TEDx talks, where he discusses his experience unschooling, and later dropping out of college to start unCollege.

TEDxAshoka U - Dale Stephens - Hacking your Education
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j1kfeXPqcY

Author Will Richardson is one of many who have published books lately questioning school in today's world:

Why School? How Education Must Change When Learning and Information Are Everywhere
http://blog.ted.com/2012/09/14/why-schoo...verywhere/
"Schools were built upon the fundamental premise that teachers and knowledge and information were scarce. That is no longer the reality. Now, as so many more of us gain faster and broader access to the Web, all of those things are suddenly abundant. That means that the traditional role of school, to deliver an education, is quickly becoming less and less relevant. If we continue to see schools as the place where our children go to master a narrow list of content, knowledge and skills that were originally defined almost 150 years ago, we risk putting those kids out into the world with little idea of how to take advantage of the explosion of learning opportunities that now exist. The problem, however, is that most “reform” efforts are aimed at simply doing what we’ve been doing better, almost exclusively in the form of raising test scores. But doing “better” on measures that don’t account for this huge shift we’re in the midst of is the absolute wrong emphasis. Instead, we need to think very differently about the experiences, outcomes, skills and literacies we desire for our kids when they come to school."

Seth Godin's free ebook Stop Stealing Dreams, and associated TED talk, is also worth checking out:
http://www.squidoo.com/stop-stealing-dreams

Those are just off the top of my head -- but in a world of so much information, it can be hard to dig through it, make sense of it, and translate it into conversations with people who don't realize how much the world is changing.

That's why I'd like to link some of these varied ideas together into a coherent series, that brings in real people's situations, and analyzes them from different perspectives.

Many parents and educators are on the side of changing education to be interesting and engaging to people of all ages. How can we facilitate more conversations that change how things work?

For example, check out these posts --

Learn from the kids the system fails to teach
http://mindsofkids.blogspot.com/2012/11/...teach.html

Do you want to play golf, or....?
http://mindsofkids.blogspot.com/2012/09/...lf-or.html

"It amazes me how much effort — in time, money and resources — people will devote to not changing education.

Evidently, adults want kids to continue to be powerless in school...but we're going to go through Herculean efforts to make it look like things are really going to change."

Also check out College Reality Chat, which is a work in progress but may provide some of the seeds for the show I have in mind:
http://collegerealitychat.com/
"Young adults are struggling with questions, and their wishes and choices sometimes make their parents unhappy. Parents want the best for their children, but there is sometimes not agreement between the two parties about what is “best”. A lot of people of all ages are trying to figure out this new reality of higher college tuition, few jobs, lots of debt or savings spent on education, and a myriad of possible choices about where to go, when, and why."

There are so many more examples and resources -- I'll conclude with this excellent blog from a high school Latin teacher, and one post in particular:

The Most Important Thing, III
http://joyfullatinlearning.wordpress.com...thing-iii/

My goal is to put some of the bits of these varied resources together into a more digestible, engaging format. Lists of links often don't get clicked on, explored, discussed, or comprehended in very much depth. Yet people spent hours and years and decades in school, supposedly to increase their reading comprehension and learn how to think and write. There's gotta be a better way to do it all!

Thoughts? Anything particularly inspiring or interesting in any of that? What are your particular situations, struggles, and hopes and dreams?
11-17-2012 02:06 PM
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AtheistLGBTQAnarchist Offline
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Post: #5
Maybe We Should Start Something

Trying to deny school is like trying to deny gods, it takes forever, but once you get there you never turn back when suddenly sooner or later people find out and think your crazy. Well I have news! The most intelligent people in history all looked like mad men at least at one point!

Congratulations humanity,because you refuse to let go of the old and evolve you actually make people believe in 2012. Not only that, but you're the only species on Earth that were able to make it possible, now we get to sit until we die because we couldn't get to Mars. We have failed as a society and don't deserve our gifts to survive for this long. Maybe this is why dinosaurs are extinct, we sure aren't any better than the dirt you say we're created from. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...DvwSOFto#! Noo

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
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11-17-2012 02:15 PM
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Post: #6
RE: Maybe We Should Start Something

(11-17-2012 02:15 PM)AmericanAtheistAnarchist Wrote:  Trying to deny school is like trying to deny gods, it takes forever, but once you get there you never turn back when suddenly sooner or later people find out and think your crazy. Well I have news! The most intelligent people in history all looked like mad men at least at one point!
The guy who invented velcro was thought of as a freak! And einstien was too!
11-17-2012 02:21 PM
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Subb Offline
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Post: #7
Maybe We Should Start Something

Xcriteria, your post made me realize how for we're come. The case against school has went from a rebellious cry to a well thought out philosophy. There is enough information out there that if this idea made it into the mainstream, it will keep spreading until the public wants change. The question is, how can we make it into the mainstream.

Triple A (my new nickname for you), You're right. But we're living in the age of information!! Information circles around the world in a very short time. Universal opinions can change really quickly. There's a backlash to EVERYTHING. If Fox News covers a nationwide walk out, we will have MANY more supporters. Okay, maybe not Fox News, But you know what I mean.

I believe we are literally at the cusp of a revolution. I hope I didn't ramble too much.

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11-17-2012 02:32 PM
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Post: #8
Maybe We Should Start Something

If even just one person here does something newsworthy, it could snowball into something bigger.

And a whole bunch of people working on many smaller projects will help too.

But yeah, it seems most things that take off hugely, usually start with one person doing something that "catches on". Question is... what will that be in this case?

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11-18-2012 12:10 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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Post: #9
Maybe We Should Start Something

Check out this story: "Dropping Out Was a Good Idea" http://theinnovativeeducator.blogspot.co...-idea.html -- this is the story Nikhil shared in his "Why Kids Hate School" TEDx talk that I linked to above.

This is on the blog of a teacher, Lisa Nielsen, who is active in the media, discussing how to change education to meet the needs of students. Check out some of her interviews here: http://theinnovativeeducator.blogspot.co...-idea.html

I really believe that what is needed is to create a show -- a series -- a transmedia property, that can appeal to a range of types of parents, educators, students, investors, and so on. Lots of people are having conversations, there are *many* examples in the news of all kinds, but a bunch of events not integrated into a coherent storyline are easy to dismiss or forget about.

*Many* schools are changing how they do things, but one of the biggest challenges is what you do once you do have that freedom. What do you want to learn? How can teachers, experts, and mentors help introduce you to information or challenges you might not come up with on your own?

That's another part of what I want to include in a participatory show. Many times, the path forward is not so clear, once you're free of oppression! And then there's real life to contend with, like how to earn a living, how to navigate complicated relationships, and how to do something that matters to you and grow as a person and all that.

I think the first step for anyone is reflect on your experiences and share your story in some form, look for where there is overlap with other people, and how your own experiences add up to something unique, or how they might in the future.

I'm taking an open class from Stanford's Venture Lab on Designing a New Learning Environment, and the professor has a project to collect stories from kids around the world in underserved regions -- 1001 Story Project -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ocVbZQLMT8 [13m] -- it's *amazing* how lucky we all are to have access to the web and some of these ideas about changing schools. And yet, it's still hard, and all people share some of the same struggles in trying to figure out how do deal with life.

Changing education is something that needs to occur whether within schools, or lone people making sense of life, or in places where there is no electricity. I think there are common lessons to be found in all these places, that often can't be found within traditional school contexts. Fortunately, schools like Big Picture Schools are changing education to better connect to the real world in its various forms.

The questions in this video are aimed at changing education in underserved regions, but are just as relevant to changing education in schools. What are learners' needs? What do they know, and what do they need to know? Who are the key players?
Designing A New Learning Environment - Week 3 Needs Analysis [4 min]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvciVCMXgxI

I want to build a course that engages learners to think about learning and the nature of knowledge and life, and start thinking with more global context. If you want to change school, what do you want to replace it with? Many college courses on a range of subjects are available free on Coursera.org -- https://www.coursera.org/ -- but how do you even figure out how to navigate through them, or all the many lectures on Youtube, or articles and links?

What is the role of a teacher if schools could be set up any possible way? How can schools be designed so they get respect and funding from a range of parties? These are all things to think about and figure out!
11-18-2012 02:21 AM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #10
Maybe We Should Start Something

lets look at the situation: it is in your parents power to allow you to be homeschooled, it's not your say because first, you're dependent on your parents for money, which is because child labor laws prevent underaged people from working, and second, that is the law, which is because you do not have the voting right to influence the elections.

you're not going to change the law any time soon, so i think your best options are to 1. begin the project of convincing your parents to allow you to be homeschooled 2. organize a national student strike or the largest you can through every social media there is on the internet, and see what the government does; i don't think there will be anything that they can do.
11-18-2012 09:21 AM
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Post: #11
Maybe We Should Start Something

That last thing about the strike is GENIUS!!!!! But alas, I'm know as "a bit off" by my peers. They will not listen. But yes, a strike will work.

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11-18-2012 10:19 AM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #12
Maybe We Should Start Something

^we can discuss it on the thread that i just made about the strike
11-18-2012 04:44 PM
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Post: #13
Maybe We Should Start Something

lol

5 years later nothing happens and SS becomes like SD.

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11-19-2012 04:49 AM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Maybe We Should Start Something

(11-19-2012 04:49 AM)RammsteinFearFactory Wrote:  lol

5 years later nothing happens and SS becomes like SD.
Quiet, you.

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11-19-2012 05:31 AM
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RE: Maybe We Should Start Something

(11-19-2012 05:31 AM)DoA Wrote:  
(11-19-2012 04:49 AM)RammsteinFearFactory Wrote:  lol

5 years later nothing happens and SS becomes like SD.
Quiet, you.

NO

I WILL BE NOISY

NNNNNEEEEEOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHNNNNNEEEEEEAAAGGGHHHH BEEP BOOP BEEP BOOP WOOSH!!!! WOOOOOOOT WEEWSH

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11-19-2012 05:51 AM
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RE: Maybe We Should Start Something

we could set a day where everyone here plans a school walkout. that would get someons attention.
11-19-2012 10:14 AM
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Subb Offline
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Post: #17
Maybe We Should Start Something

I have another idea.
If you're in America, You probably heard about Kony 2012 and, more recently, Amanda Todd. These causes spread like wildfire and made teens want to do something. Something we can do is scrutinize these two phenomena and try to find out why they became so popular. Then, we can make a video that has all of those elements in it. If it has HALF the success of Amanda Todd, and we instruct teens to stop going to school, It will make news. It will snowball from there. If you like this plan, then START STUDYING. I know I will!

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11-21-2012 02:46 PM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #18
Maybe We Should Start Something

^^^that's exactly right. i don't know much about amanda todd, but i think what made kony2012 so successful is that it produced a single gigantic number to make the headlines through its YouTube video view count, that's what magnified it from just another popular movement to something out of the ordinary in people's eyes, so that its size helps to accelerate its spread.

so i think we need stop with the local walkouts and shit, and work for something greater, something that demands attention. and a Facebook page is the easiest thing i can think of. I've already explained this on the other thread but all we're going to ask, of everyone, is to single click a "like" button on our page, and not have to do anything but wait for the day to not go school- on the same day when everyone else does the same, that's all that it will take to accomplish what we need, we only need to have a single place for everyone to come together to muster a large enough scale.

so if you really give a shit, make a Facebook page explaining everything that is wrong with compulsory schooling and how we can come together to end it. help with this so that when you complain, at least you won't complain in hypocrisy, at least you've done what you can to change things. but we definitely have the power to do this.

1. we need a group of people to take the lead and set up the Facebook page.
2. sit back and hope for a snowball.

COME ON time to stop plotting and start DOING


let me list the ADVANTAGES of my proposal to local walkouts and shit

1. an expanded large-scale movement can becomes RELEVANT to an ENTIRE NATION of potential participants. this allows us to spread the message WITHOUT LIMITS through every domain of the social media.

2. it's gotta be easy to convince someone to 1.click a like button and 2.not go to school when the ENTIRE NATION is also not going to school.

kony fucking 2012 had close to no relevance to the people who supported it
hardly anything could be more relevant to your everyday LIVES than the prison that you go to every day.
ACT if you give a fuck about your lives at all.


here's an imagery, instead of trying to roll 1000 snowballs with 1000 snowflakes, squash them into one, and use that. time to stop staying local. lets use the internet to its full potential
(This post was last modified: 11-21-2012 11:25 PM by Potato.)
11-21-2012 06:47 PM
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Post: #19
Maybe We Should Start Something

I like that video idea. It could include elements about crazy shit going on in schools (http://forums.school-survival.net/showth...?tid=27743) and even some stuff about kids getting sent to behaviour modification camps by their parents because of school performance or whatever.

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11-21-2012 11:06 PM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #20
Maybe We Should Start Something

^yea a video is a great idea, the only problem is that somebody has to make it. i'm going to try to make an "abolish compulsory schooling" page on facebook, anyone wana help or have any suggestions? i'm kind of slow and have no idea what i'm doing
(This post was last modified: 11-21-2012 11:43 PM by Potato.)
11-21-2012 11:40 PM
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Post: #21
RE: Maybe We Should Start Something

(11-21-2012 11:40 PM)Potato Wrote:  ^yea a video is a great idea, the only problem is that somebody has to make it. i'm going to try to make an "abolish compulsory schooling" page on facebook, anyone wana help or have any suggestions? i'm kind of slow and have no idea what i'm doing

Be sure to look at some educational reformists, such as John Taylor Gatto and Nikhil Goyal. Post quotes all the time. Try sugarcoating things a LITTLE bit. DON"T GO TOO CRAZY. Make this page appealing to teens, since they're are the one's on Facebook.

I'm gonna find the Kony 2012 video, and I'll post back here about my observations when it's over.

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11-21-2012 11:57 PM
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Post: #22
Maybe We Should Start Something

I already got a Facebook page, called School Is Prison. http://www.facebook.com/pages/School-Is-...9?filter=1

Been posting things on it, SS stuff but also other random stuff to appeal to more people. Should probably post moar...

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11-22-2012 12:20 AM
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Post: #23
Maybe We Should Start Something

OK, here's what I noticed.
1. They emphasized how bad it is in Africa, particularly in Uganda at that time.
2. They focused on kids.
3. They put it the issue in your own hands.
4. They made sure to establish that you weren't STARTING a movement, you were JOINING it.
5. They made it simple to help.
I will post more if i can think of more.

Let's see what we can do to add these elements into the video.
1. We can only talk about the bad side of school. I think this is OK, because they're doing the same thing with the good side.
2. Easy.
3. We can keep saying "It's YOUR education, take it back into YOUR hands by not going to school."
4. This one will be hard to do. We should make a Facebook page and grow a LITTLE bit more before we sent this video into the world.
5. It IS simple. Don't go to school.

Another thing; We need to be more official. We have SS, but we need to run this a bit more high class. Instead of "End Compulsory Schooling", how about "Free the Young Mind"?? That sounds a bit more appealing to join to me.

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(This post was last modified: 11-22-2012 02:51 AM by Subb.)
11-22-2012 12:45 AM
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Post: #24
Maybe We Should Start Something

subculture you can add me on facebook and i'll put you as an admin of the page. look for "joe bloe." the page name can be changed around afterwards.
11-22-2012 03:33 AM
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Subb Offline
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Post: #25
Maybe We Should Start Something

Which Joe Bloe?

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We've had a lot of fun, guys.
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11-22-2012 03:36 AM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #26
Maybe We Should Start Something

look for the one with the guy in front of the computer meme in the profile pic
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2012 04:43 AM by Potato.)
11-22-2012 04:43 AM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #27
Maybe We Should Start Something

joe.bloe.754365 [AT] facebook.com
11-22-2012 04:46 AM
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Subb Offline
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Post: #28
Maybe We Should Start Something

Request sent!

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11-22-2012 04:47 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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Post: #29
Maybe We Should Start Something

Subculture, you deserve an A+ grade toward a college credential for your summary of Kony 2012. As short as a forum post can be, some can really summarize fundamentals better than a PhD dissertation.

Check out Open Masters Program -- http://info.p2pu.org/projects/open-masters-program/ -- I think this kind of model can be used in a much broader manner. There are a few stories of 14 year olds starting college, but why must it be a few super-prodigies, when so many more people have insight into the nature of the world?

It's important to recognize that many more educators are beginning to question factory model schools than was once the case. Don't look at teachers, or even school administrators, or the government, as the enemy. Things are more complex. Dysfunctional schools are bad for governments, they are frustrating for teachers, and they are Hell for students, and something needs to change. Many people, even those "in the system" recognize this, so the situation is more complex than an "us vs. them" mindset.

At the same time, many students are relatively complacent -- a relative minority *can't stand school* -- but that does't mean school is doing the best it can for all its students. And even homeschooling or unschooling, or uncollege, where one actually has the freedom to create a personal learning plan, has some challenges. What should you learn, and how do you learn it? There are answers to those questions, but they deserve more discussion than they often get.

Check out School Survival on facebook, and there are many other communities discussing changing education. Even those Powers That Be are looking to change education for the better, but it's a complex equation. Maybe some of us who have felt the pain can help them with solutions.
(This post was last modified: 11-23-2012 08:28 AM by xcriteria.)
11-23-2012 08:27 AM
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 Thanks given by: SoulRiser , Subb
Potato Offline
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Post: #30
Maybe We Should Start Something

"Don't look at teachers, or even school administrators, or the government, as the enemy."

dividing students into classes and assigning each class a teacher is much less efficient that making the information available as a single source on the internet (as khan academy does), but it does provide more jobs (millions more), which is of course what they'd care about the most. and sources on the internet such as khan academy has the potential to lower the cost of grade education from $10k per student per year (so about $120,000 k-12 per student), to the cost of a computer and an internet connection per student. so yes it really is our AND the tax payers' interest against the teacher's union's.
11-23-2012 08:54 PM
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