You are going nowhere in life

[KFC Nyan Cat]

Yeah, because a dictatorship institution founded by a democratic government inspired by a nazi country followed by enormous debt is REALLY the way to go in life!

[James Comey]

It seems BobManPerson tried to force feed us the crap that we got with Killjoy, Asder Miller, Venjamin, stephen926, and pretty much a lot of people we see in school. For the fun of it, let's look back at BMP's post.

(10-22-2012 06:41 AM)BobManPerson Wrote:  I'm embarrassed I actually used to post here. I'm also embarrassed for those of you who still post here. You guys are going nowhere in life. None of you seem to have any motivation to do anything in life, but if you want to drop out of school, get a GED, and try to make a living with what little you have, by all means, go for it (here's a tip - the best working conditions require a bachelor's degree or higher, and if you don't care about income, I hope you're happy with living in poverty). If you don't, I suggest you grow the fuck up and stop complaining. You're not going to be a revolutionary. You won't create something incredible or worthwhile. If you thought any of those, you're delusional.

This argument is simply horseshit, to say the least. A GED (and, if you're in CA, the CHSPE; perhaps other states have similar tests) is literally equal to a HS diploma. Hell, the law says so. You can go to college with it, you can do a lot of stuff, really. A GED's not as bad as people make it out to be. BMP completely missed that point.

The usual "grow up" argument. To be honest, when I first got on here, I got on here because I thought school was boring and learned about some of the other evils about the system. That itself is legitimate. But as I've been on here more and more, my hatred has grown even more and more. I could make a gigantic list why I hate school, for so many reasons. Simply put, you're going to have to do better than "grow up", because I've tried to "grow up". Didn't happen.

Also, perhaps some of the commonly used fallacies I've seen is the "automatic assumption of people" fallacy that BMP used. He assumes that we won't be incredible or worthwhile, we'll all be normal people. I don't see where he got that. Perhaps that's not what he meant, but that's not the point. I get tired of seeing this fallacy, so I won't bother with it.

And no, we're not going to have an "armed revolution" that Rebelnerd dreams of. We're not going to change the system overnight, but steps can be taken, and they are. Vermont recently made it law to have individual learning plans; individual learning is something we constantly rave about. We've recently made Screenstorming and the Google Plus group. Now, we're not changing every mind, but hey, it's better than what we were before.

(10-22-2012 06:41 AM)BobManPerson Wrote:  It's all about income. That's all that really matters. Most of you have figured it out by now. Society equates human value with income. The more money you have, the higher you're viewed. The less you have, the lower you're viewed. You can't change it. The best you can do is work with it, which is what I've been doing. Right now I'm at one of the most prestigious, highly-ranked universities in the country. I'm meeting intelligent people with ideas and motivation to change the world. I'm working with what I have. Instead, you guys complain to each other, complain about the system, refuse any help at all, expect change without actually doing anything, and will likely never develop any worthwhile connections or learn any useful skills. No one will ever take you seriously.

I care to disagree. It's as if BMP makes income to be the only thing that's worthwhile in achieving, even though there are many things in life that are worth achieving. I know this sounds cliche, and somewhat of a platitude, but in the end, I don't care how much money I make. I just want to be a happy person.

I won't say that income isn't important. I won't say that money can't buy happiness, because that's one of the most bullshit statements on the planet. But I will say this: there are people out there who will look beyond the income. There are groups, there are people. You just have to find them. In the end, income isn't everything. That's a hole you don't want to fall into. It's a mentality that clouds everything else, and in my opinion, breeds selfishness.

(10-22-2012 06:41 AM)BobManPerson Wrote:  I can't believe some of you actually brag about failing classes, having to repeat grades, and withdrawing from school like those are monumental achievements. Do you realize that in the long run, you're fucking yourself over by doing that?

I'll admit, BMP has a point here. Back when I first got on here, I used to brag about how "edgy" I was, how I was "superior" to everyone else and despite my bad grades, I was better than everyone because I was supposedly a "free thinker". I've looked back and that and realize it was an asshole phase, to say the least.

Though I agree the "I'm glad to fail school" mentality may be rather unhealthy, school really is difficult for people. I have crap grades, but I know I'm smart. I know a lot of these things that admittedly many other people in my school (and outside of school) don't know, but I don't say I'm better than them, because any person can learn these things if they develop the right skills. I just got out of the box, and many people can, too.

Am I proud to be close to getting out of school? Yes, because I know that by getting out of school, I'm setting myself up for better. I can get a part time job working at a local boys and girls center and meet new people and actually do something productive. I know I won't suffer more breakdowns and stress caused by the burden of (ugh) grades. I know my life will be so much better. Once again, BMP ignored the plight a lot of people suffer in school. What's worse is that those people don't even blame school, they blame themselves. Others do hate school, but see no point in trying to make things better. I'm lucky I found myself out of the box, and I hope to help others get out of the box, too.

(10-22-2012 06:41 AM)BobManPerson Wrote:  Here's a thought: why not accept it? I mean, seriously, you're in school for, what - 13 years of your life? Did you ever stop to think that every single other person in the world went through that? Why not get over it? You're not being robbed of anything. Have you ever considered that maybe it's not school that's wrong, but it's you? Everything works both ways.

"Accept it". I've heard those words thrown at me for so long. It seems so simple, and I actually really just went with this platitude. But then, I pretty much said: fuck. that. shit.

Actually, yes. I was robbed. I was robbed of so many things. Middle school was single-handidly the worst period of my life. I was robbed of being happy, I was robbed of being able to have decent friends, I was robbed of my humility, I was robbed of so many things. School, as I look back, has robbed me of so much of my freedom, and of course, my creativity. School has robbed so many things. It's true.

What's worse, the "accept it" attitude just makes things worse. It tells people to accept a fate that doesn't have to be. It tells people that the worse is inevitable, and there's no point in changing it, but with the right tools, progress can be done. I tried to "accept it", but then, simply-put, I stopped. My life is so much fucking better when I stopped "accepting it".

(10-22-2012 06:41 AM)BobManPerson Wrote:  EDIT: Here are good quotes:

Quote:The best thing would be if all haters for school became millioners

The problem is that anti-schoolers will never become millionaires. In fact, if they're as anti-school as some of you guys are, they'll never see any income beyond minimum wage. There's a reason for that.

Once again, the "assumptions" fallacy that I pointed out earlier. There's no point in arguing this one, really.

(10-22-2012 06:41 AM)BobManPerson Wrote:  

Quote:I'm going to start off with a simple capture card device, about £5. After that, I'll start doing videos, gaining views, battling other Let's Players to gain fame/infamy, all in the hopes that I can get money.

Spoiler: you won't get money. The way the most famous Let's Play people get money is through advertisements. Advertisers pay them to put their ads by their videos, because they know that many people watch those videos. Unless you're a talented entertainer, you won't ever reach a level where you'll be paid for putting videos on the internet. I hope you have a backup career in mind.

Again, read above. I don't know how this worked out. This actually didn't have much to do with the subject in hand, anyway. Seems to be somewhat of a red herring.

Final analysis, BMP's arguments were mostly horseshit, and he was quite aggressive in trying to sell it, as well. He was using tired old cliches we're thrown at pretty much every day of our lives, even though it is most certainly possible, for example, to get into college without even having to finish high school. In addition, BMP's arguments are based on massive misconceptions on the functions of GEDs and other high school diploma equivalents. People with a GED and such can get into college, and do the same shit, you know. The law is on their side, too.

I might argue BMP's other arguments. I kinda wish he'd come back and see my arguments, but whatever. We're definitely better off without him.

[James Comey]

(10-22-2012 07:28 AM)BobManPerson Wrote:  It's not the educational process itself, but rather the outcome. Tell me an alternative to conventional schooling and see if you'll end up in the same place as a normally schooled person after you've gone through it.

Homeschooling, democratic schools, etc.... it seems people who defend the factory model tend to go with the "well, is there another way" argument, and there is.

Finland, for example, runs definitely a better type of system (though still somewhat factory-esque). I've read that Finland's system tends to be more individual-based, and competitive grading and massive standardized testing is absent.

The problem with the argument, I suppose, is that because alternative learning is rather new and not-so-widely accepted, the statistics aren't nearly as clear. However, I believe there can be ways of doing it. Certainly there are better ways than rigorous standardized testing.

(10-22-2012 07:28 AM)BobManPerson Wrote:  There's a reason you're pressured for good grades. Good grades lead to a good college which leads to a good future, ultimately through the connections you make in college. And I never said you should stop complaining - I noted that all you guys do is complain. That is a statement of fact.

Ugh. Grades relevant to anything. Grades only measure how much work you turn in and whether it meets the factory model standards, rather than any legitimate real intelligence. It's definitely a broken system that needs to be fixed.

(10-22-2012 07:28 AM)BobManPerson Wrote:  Tell me what learning is if it isn't memorization. It may not be the best way, but it's the fastest and most efficient. And for some reason, it seems to work. Look at advances in science and technology by recent graduates and tell me it doesn't work.

"Fastest and most efficient". Uh, no. From personal experience, factory model education is the opposite. Slow and less efficient. My mind practically dies because of how slow it is.

[kaylankonnor]

I wonder how school will work when we fast-forward 100 years from now.. hopefully some individualist out there finally realizes this and make some kind of cool awesome change happening

[James Comey]

I would seriously hope that some change would happen. At least a little bit more individual learning, at least some statistic that shows that the factory model we're all used to isn't all that great.

Considering that what is essentially the same model has survived for more than 100 years (though to be fair, the tools we have today weren't available back then, and a lot of it wasn't even available as early as 15-20 years ago) though, I have some doubt.

[UnicornLionWolf]

My negativity regarding school wasn't an unwillingness to learn academic things or do hard work. For me, the issue was bullying, drama, popularity BS, etc.

Although...this post does show my lack of life motivation lately.

[HSHARK]

I don't think entrepreneurship follows such rules. It only follows creativity and market demand.

[DreamRebel]

I was reading the first post, and I retched when they started talking about lack of motivation, like it's a vice or something. NOPE. Not reading any further.
Lack of motivation is not what they think it is. It's a freaking symptom, whether of mental illness or of what I call motivation starvation. It's where even neurotypical people end up doing nothing because their system presents them with no obvious reason to seek success, and perhaps makes things seem daunting, sometimes more daunting than they actually are. It can lead to mental illness later on, too. It's also generally harder on the already neurodivergent.

[the Analogist]

The initial poster confuses me. Why would he waste his time offering us a vision of his genius paired with a rebuke of our stupidity of rejecting his genius? Also a list of wildly successful drop-outs is easily found by probing the research of John Taylor Gatto, and many statistics have be gathered to show that lifetime earnings dont actually vary so much for drop-outs, and that 1 out of 15 millionaires is a drop-out.

Dave Thomas who founded Wendy's was a drop out. Thomas Edison, Ray Croc, Larry Ellison, Bill Gates... a few examples, but real none the less.

The purpose of my TCS is also to argue that education should be based on the development of various faculties which can happen irrespective of school or home school, good or bad.

If somebody has imagination, the ability to find information and effectively use it, and they have enough support from within and outside in the way of interpersonal spiritual support and in the case of MOST entrepreneurs a ton of initial financial support, then they can become very successful. The variables I just listed are indifferent to school except that prejudice from investors and the attitudes of peers often define success so narrowly that such a person would have to be motivated from entirely within their own spirit, which is possible, but hard

[AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA]

(10-22-2012 05:41 PM)gore goroth Wrote:  Oh, look who's back. It's Mr. Columbine himself. I hope you enjoy paying off your college debt.

LOL he got burned

[the Analogist]

I got my college paid for by my grandparents, now I have a decent well-paying job. What is this "luck of birth" stuff? No, I am super awesome!

[James Comey]

Holy shit, I remember this thread.

Good times, good times.

[UnicornLionWolf]

(08-17-2016 04:07 PM)Lucky-Feet Wrote:  I was reading the first post, and I retched when they started talking about lack of motivation, like it's a vice or something. NOPE. Not reading any further.
Lack of motivation is not what they think it is. It's a freaking symptom, whether of mental illness or of what I call motivation starvation. It's where even neurotypical people end up doing nothing because their system presents them with no obvious reason to seek success, and perhaps makes things seem daunting, sometimes more daunting than they actually are. It can lead to mental illness later on, too. It's also generally harder on the already neurodivergent.

I think that one thing that relates to this is willpower being a finite resource.

[awesomejuan]

thanks for the negative reminder?

plus, hating school doesn't mean you have no motivation.

---

thanks for the negative reminder?

plus, hating school doesn't mean you have no motivation.