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Empire by Orson Scott Card...
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Post: #1
Empire by Orson Scott Card...

...is the most beautifully bad book I've had the pleasure to read in years. I've only gotten through a few chapters, but it's damn hard to put down, albeit probably not for the reasons the author intended. Despite strongly disagreeing with him politically, I've always had a soft spot for Card because of Ender's Game, which has got to be one of the greatest modern science fiction novels ever written. I'd heard mixed review of Empire, but the idea of a controversial novel depicting a civil war between the American left and right was too tempting to pass up.

But HO-LY-SHIT this book is awful! And I'm not even talking about the politics here; he has the right to put whatever slant he wants into his own work. I'm talking about the fact that al-Qaeda kills the President by sending scuba divers up the Potomac, where they crawl up onto shore and fire RPGs at the White House. Or how Card claims to be a "neutral moderate examining the dangers of extreme polarization," while filling endless pages with vitriolic rants about evil liberal college intellectuals who hate America and go out of their way to taunt anyone wearing a military uniform.

A more detailed review will follow, once I finish the book, but for now I'll just say that this is turning out to be the literary version of Miracles by ICP. Not just "so bad it's good," but "so bad it's wonderful!" Fucking battlemechs, how do they work?

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
The quickest way to kill a revolution is to wait for it.
10-26-2010 02:36 PM
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Sociopath Offline
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Post: #2
Re: Empire by Orson Scott Card...

I don't know what you're talking about but that sounds horrible!

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Dear Tumblrites: Despite your wrongly self-diagnosed PTSD, no line of scientific evidence suggests people can be triggered over the internet. Triggering works through the senses (i.e. smell, taste, touch, vision, hearing.) but it goes through real time; if you're not experiencing it in real life as it's ACTUALLY HAPPENING in your ACTUAL life, you CANNOT be triggered. The only exception to this is if you have a seizure, but then again, that's triggered by epilepsy (i.e. rapidly-changing flashing lights) NOT PTSD. Remembering a bad incident is NOT the same thing as having a flashback. When you remember, you think; when you flashback, you feel.

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Max Stirnir Wrote:"In the time of spirits thoughts grew till they overtopped my head, whose offspring they yet were; they hovered about me and convulsed me like fever-phantasies -- an awful power. The thoughts had become corporeal on their own account, were ghosts, e. g. God, Emperor, Pope, Fatherland, etc. If I destroy their corporeity, then I take them back into mine, and say: "I alone am corporeal." And now I take the world as what it is to me, as mine, as my property; I refer all to myself." The Ego and Its Own, pg. 15
Charles Manson Wrote:“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”
HeartofShadows Wrote:"Life is nothing more than a druggie trying to get their quick fix of happiness while dealing with the harsh withdrawal of reality"
Osip Mandelstam Wrote:"I divide all of world literature into authorized and unauthorized works. The former are all trash; the latter--stolen air. I want to spit in the face of every writer who first obtains permission and then writes." The Fourth Prose, 1930.
Lukas Foss Wrote:That is why the analogy of stealing does not work. With a thief, we want to know how much money he stole, and from whom. With the artist it is not how much he took and from whom, but what he did with it.
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10-26-2010 02:38 PM
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Jesusaurisrex Offline
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Post: #3
Re: Empire by Orson Scott Card...

SHIT BOOK SOUNDS LIKE SHIT M'LORD

Read a real book like The Prince, or Beyond Good and Evil or ANYTHING thats semi legitimate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmXMA34CeoQ
10-26-2010 02:42 PM
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Sociopath Offline
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Post: #4
Re: Empire by Orson Scott Card...

Go read The Wealth of Nations By Adam Smith.

Hidden stuff:
TRIGGER WARNING: THIS TRIGGER WARNING CONTAINS TRIGGER WARNINGS!

Dear Tumblrites: Despite your wrongly self-diagnosed PTSD, no line of scientific evidence suggests people can be triggered over the internet. Triggering works through the senses (i.e. smell, taste, touch, vision, hearing.) but it goes through real time; if you're not experiencing it in real life as it's ACTUALLY HAPPENING in your ACTUAL life, you CANNOT be triggered. The only exception to this is if you have a seizure, but then again, that's triggered by epilepsy (i.e. rapidly-changing flashing lights) NOT PTSD. Remembering a bad incident is NOT the same thing as having a flashback. When you remember, you think; when you flashback, you feel.

#HashTagsAreForIdiots

[Image: violator_blackbg_110x32.gif]
Max Stirnir Wrote:"In the time of spirits thoughts grew till they overtopped my head, whose offspring they yet were; they hovered about me and convulsed me like fever-phantasies -- an awful power. The thoughts had become corporeal on their own account, were ghosts, e. g. God, Emperor, Pope, Fatherland, etc. If I destroy their corporeity, then I take them back into mine, and say: "I alone am corporeal." And now I take the world as what it is to me, as mine, as my property; I refer all to myself." The Ego and Its Own, pg. 15
Charles Manson Wrote:“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”
HeartofShadows Wrote:"Life is nothing more than a druggie trying to get their quick fix of happiness while dealing with the harsh withdrawal of reality"
Osip Mandelstam Wrote:"I divide all of world literature into authorized and unauthorized works. The former are all trash; the latter--stolen air. I want to spit in the face of every writer who first obtains permission and then writes." The Fourth Prose, 1930.
Lukas Foss Wrote:That is why the analogy of stealing does not work. With a thief, we want to know how much money he stole, and from whom. With the artist it is not how much he took and from whom, but what he did with it.
PIRATE Pirate2 MEMBER
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10-26-2010 02:46 PM
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Jesusaurisrex Offline
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Post: #5
Re: Empire by Orson Scott Card...

Sociopath Wrote:Go read The Wealth of Nations By Adam Smith.
but that one is soooooooooooooooooooo boring... at least Machiavelli and Nietzsche are interesting as hell.

the prince is like the "how to" guide for world domination. In my lecture today, a student asked "so if Machiavelli was alive today, and he was president of the united states, what would he do?"
to which the teacher replied "you have completely mis-cast him, he would be the secretary of staff. and then he would lobby to congress to repeal the 22 amendment, and he would win. and then his candidate would run for 3rd term. and win"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmXMA34CeoQ
10-26-2010 02:53 PM
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The Desert Fox Offline
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Post: #6
Re: Empire by Orson Scott Card...

So it's like one of those things that you hate, but you like raging at it so much it's hard to look away?

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(11-27-2011 01:00 PM)psychopath Wrote:  
(11-27-2011 10:52 AM)Efs Wrote:  Our Army is more professional than Amerika. Smile
Except ours isn't allowed to have guns
CrayolaColours Wrote:That post owned. TDF wins post of the year.
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krissy Wrote:dessert fox
Mmm, flambéed vulpine.
"There is no enemy, there is no victory, only boys who lost their lives in the sand."
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10-26-2010 03:32 PM
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Post: #7
Re: Empire by Orson Scott Card...

The Desert Fox Wrote:So it's like one of those things that you hate, but you like raging at it so much it's hard to look away?
More like I'm laughing so hard I can't look away.

Also, Jesusaurisrex, there's a lot of evidence suggesting that Machiavelli's The Prince wasn't actually meant as advice for tyrannical rulers, but was actually a Colbert-esque work of satire meant to make fun of tyrannical rulers.

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
The quickest way to kill a revolution is to wait for it.
10-26-2010 11:16 PM
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Jesusaurisrex Offline
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Re: Empire by Orson Scott Card...

Rebelnerd Wrote:Also, Jesusaurisrex, there's a lot of evidence suggesting that Machiavelli's The Prince wasn't actually meant as advice for tyrannical rulers, but was actually a Colbert-esque work of satire meant to make fun of tyrannical rulers.

I could not possibly disagree more... where is this "evidence?" because last time I checked, its just a theory that lets people say "hey, this person supported our current american way of life!"
by calling the prince a satire, we are completely discrediting him as a philosopher, and nothing he says can be taken seriously. nothing makes makes me angrier than when someone just cant even begin to understand the concepts and the brutal reality, they scream out "LOL THIS MUST BE A JOKE!"

No one has read this book yet people quote it so much that people expect it to be a brutal and harsh attack on all our beliefs. Everyone knows quotes like "It's better to be feared than loved" and nobody ever knows the very next line "But one must avoid being hated."

This is a book about power, and how to maintain it. Calling it a "satire" is just about the dumbest thing people can do, yet it seems this is the commonly accepted interpretation in modern society.

But here is the kicker... Machiavelli would want the people he controls to view it as a satire. Think about that for a moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmXMA34CeoQ
10-27-2010 07:29 AM
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Absnt Offline
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Post: #9
Re: Empire by Orson Scott Card...

I've read empire, and it certainly was disappointing considering Card's other works. I've read them all, and Empire definitely wasn't what I expected. The mechs were ridiculous, it was like he was trying too hard to incorporate science fiction or something.

Oh well, hopefully the book shadow in flight will be good... The series, so far, is my favorite.

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10-27-2010 08:09 AM
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Re: Empire by Orson Scott Card...

Jesusaurisrex Wrote:I could not possibly disagree more... where is this "evidence?" because last time I checked, its just a theory that lets people say "hey, this person supported our current american way of life!"
No, that's not right. The evidence is the vast library of Machiavelli's other work, which is all in support of republican governments and in clear violation of the plan he outlines in The Prince. The Prince was short, hardly even a "book," and the fact that we judge him based on such a tiny fraction of his work is really sad. It would be like if future historians only found that one little clip of Jon Stewart impersonating Glenn Beck and came to the conclusion that Stewart was a rabid conservative pundit.

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
The quickest way to kill a revolution is to wait for it.
10-27-2010 08:57 AM
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Quioxte Offline
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Post: #11
Re: Empire by Orson Scott Card...

Rebelnerd Wrote:
Jesusaurisrex Wrote:I could not possibly disagree more... where is this "evidence?" because last time I checked, its just a theory that lets people say "hey, this person supported our current american way of life!"
No, that's not right. The evidence is the vast library of Machiavelli's other work, which is all in support of republican governments and in clear violation of the plan he outlines in The Prince. The Prince was short, hardly even a "book," and the fact that we judge him based on such a tiny fraction of his work is really sad. It would be like if future historians only found that one little clip of Jon Stewart impersonating Glenn Beck and came to the conclusion that Stewart was a rabid conservative pundit.

Rebelnerd is correct. The only reason the The Prince because big was because it was short and to the point. Machiavelli believed in human rights and advocated individual freedom.
10-31-2010 11:53 AM
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