Liberals vs Radicals

[SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT]

Excerpt from "Deep Green Resistance" by Lierre Kieth, Derrick Jensen, and Aric McBay.

Liberalism Vs. Radicalism

LIBERAL
Individualism

• • basic social unit is individual
  • person is distinct from social group
    
  
  Idealism
  • attitudes are sources and solutions for oppression
  • thinking as prime mover of social life
  • rational argument/education is engine of social change
    
  
  Naturalism
  • body exists independently of society/mind
  • gender/race as physical body
    
  
  Voluntarism
  • social life comprised of autonomous, intentional,self-willed actions
    
  
  Moralism
  • rightness means of conforming behavior to rules that are abstractly right or wrong
  • equality before the law
    
  
  RADICAL
  
  Group or Class
  • basic social unit is group
  • person is socially constructed
  • active and critical embrace of group
    
  
  Materialism
  • concrete systems of power are sources and solutions of oppression
  • thoughts and ideas are only one part of social life
  • organized politcal resistance compels social change
    
  
  Constructivism
  • reality is socially constructed
  • gender/race are socially real categories, but biology is ideology
    
  
  Social Determinism
  • social life is comprised of a complex political determinism
  • the oppressed do not make or control conditions
  • but "with forms of power forged from powerlessness, conditions are resisted"
    
  
  Feminist Jurisprudence
  • Abstract moralism works in the inrests of power
  • material equality
  • while powerlessness is the problem, redistribution of power as currently defined is not its ultimate solution
    
  
  
  Thoughts? Comments? I consider myself a radical. It's how I view the world. So If people are often suprised at my standpoints, this chart really can help describe them.

[TheCancer]

I consider myself a radical. To me liberal means searching for government approval and radical means living how you want to live and wishing their wasn't any government.

[IamNoone]

All sociological and psychological evidence points right to Constructivism. Cool chart/list thing.

[thewake]

I consider myself a radical for capitalism.

[batboy138]

I'd say i'm a bit of both, mostly radical though.

[Miller0700]

I have some qualities of a radical, but I'm mostly liberal.

[SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT]

(06-01-2012 08:54 AM)TheCancer Wrote:  I consider myself a radical. To me liberal means searching for government approval and radical means living how you want to live and wishing their wasn't any government.

Uhh, lifestyle anarchism is absolutely liberal. Radical does not mean living under the system and trying to live freely, they basically want to organize to change and dismantle systems of power.

Quote:ll sociological and psychological evidence points right to Constructivism. Cool chart/list thing.

Most definitely. The only thing that is strange is how sociopaths actually arose in society, like in rather peaceful societies.

Quote:I consider myself a radical for capitalism.

I always saw you as a devout classic liberal. Being that you are a complete capitalist.

Would you be willing to take down the current capitalist system through resistance and start a new one?

[thewake]

(06-02-2012 06:42 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  

Quote:I consider myself a radical for capitalism.

I always saw you as a devout classic liberal. Being that you are a complete capitalist.

Would you be willing to take down the current capitalist system through resistance and start a new one?

I'd be willing to take down a communist system through violent resistance and put capitalism in its place. As of right now, I don't think the complete dissolution of the current system is necessary.

Wikipedia says, "The term political radicalism (or simply, in political science, radicalism) denotes political principles focused on altering social structures through revolutionary means and changing value systems in fundamental ways." I'm not against protest politics, political theater, and (honest) ridicule to get what I want. In actuality, my ideas are very much unaligned with the mainstream, and would most definitely upset the current power structure.

I'm definitely not as radical as a lot of people in the world, but I'm more radical than most people. Here, on this forum, I find myself actually defending the current system against attacks by people, including you, that advocate systems I view as much worse than the current state of affairs. It doesn't mean I don't want change, even change that could be classified as fundamental change. I just don't want to change everything, and I don't view our current world as doomed or even that awful.

Plus, I like the term radical, it has a sort of badass feel.

Of course I am most definitely a classical liberal (although I prefer libertarian in its modern American usage). But you act like liberalism isn't radical. The founders of America were liberal radicals in their day. Liberalism successfully upturned the paradigm of absolute monarchy and mercantilism, replacing it with constitutionalism and free trade.

People like Ayn Rand or F. A. Hayek, two of my biggest intellectual influences, have been alternatively deified and vilified as radical thinkers. Libertarian writer Brian Doherty wrote a history of the modern libertarian movement called Radicals for Capitalism.

I think I'm a radical libertarian (or radical classical liberal).

[TheCancer]

Quote:Uhh, lifestyle anarchism is absolutely liberal. Radical does not mean living under the system and trying to live freely, they basically want to organize to change and dismantle systems of power.

I'd rather think of myself as a lazy anarchist but you can define me however you wish. Your ideas seem like the stuff they teach in sociology in college to me.

[Efs]

Reading the OP, I fit more into the "Liberal" category.

[SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT]

(06-02-2012 08:50 AM)TheCancer Wrote:  

Quote:Uhh, lifestyle anarchism is absolutely liberal. Radical does not mean living under the system and trying to live freely, they basically want to organize to change and dismantle systems of power.

I'd rather think of myself as a lazy anarchist but you can define me however you wish. Your ideas seem like the stuff they teach in sociology in college to me.

Cool.

I'm sick of doing nothing. Living and existence is fine. But really, school ruined my motivation to do things. ALl I wanna do is sleep and rest. Like I wanna fucking rebel.

[TheCancer]

(06-03-2012 04:45 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  

(06-02-2012 08:50 AM)TheCancer Wrote:  

Quote:Uhh, lifestyle anarchism is absolutely liberal. Radical does not mean living under the system and trying to live freely, they basically want to organize to change and dismantle systems of power.

I'd rather think of myself as a lazy anarchist but you can define me however you wish. Your ideas seem like the stuff they teach in sociology in college to me.

Cool.

I'm sick of doing nothing. Living and existence is fine. But really, school ruined my motivation to do things. ALl I wanna do is sleep and rest. Like I wanna fucking rebel.

lol

yeah i hear you

this built to spill song kind of sums up those types of feeling for me

http://youtu.be/R30gfVC5nxY

apathy = liberation ???

[SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT]

Nah, I feel like apathy only upholds misery. In the words of Rudimentary Peni




Like, i don't give a fuck that I'm a black woman, but really I do give a fuck because of how oppressed and misrepresented we are in society. Like you can't ignore the daily constructed systems of power the dictate our lives.

Also, someone really fucked with my status and put KILL ALL THE WHITEMAN. I don't know how to change it.

[Slutty Nun]

I'm a mutual anarchist so does that make me a radical?

[SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT]

(06-04-2012 10:48 AM)Slutty Nun Wrote:  I'm a mutual anarchist so does that make me a radical?

It makes you part of the left.

But really, that has nothing to do with anarchy, it's just about the production of capitol.

Which anarchy is against.

Do you agree with the liberal movement?

[Slutty Nun]

Shut up

[batboy138]

(06-04-2012 11:02 AM)Slutty Nun Wrote:  Shut up