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Why are books so "good"?
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fish20 Offline
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Post: #1
Why are books so "good"?

I don't understand why people think books are AMAZING, but Tv/movies and Video Games are BAD. Aren't they pretty much the same thing, just in a different form? If I were to write a book that says exactly what is in the movie, is it suddenly good o.k.? And for Video Games, it must have a story or it doesn't count for this.
11-22-2010 01:14 PM
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~Mystery~ Offline
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Post: #2
Re: Why are books so "good"?

I know what you mean. If I read on the computer people say "go outside and do something".

But if I read the same thing in a book on the couch people say oh he must be an budding intellectual, I bet he's lost in the vast creations of accumulative years of ancient philosophy I hope I look presentable enough for him'.

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11-22-2010 01:36 PM
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HeartofShadows Offline
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Post: #3
Re: Why are books so "good"?

Books tend to have less restrictive space to work with than movies.
They present philosophy better and don't have to dumb themselves down or cater so as not to offend somebody.

Least thats my look.

Its not about being an intellectual or some bullshit like that.

I just prefer reading to movies.

compare I'm legend the book to I'm legend the movie or the running man the book compared to the movie.

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11-22-2010 02:49 PM
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magikarp Offline
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Post: #4
Re: Why are books so "good"?

Form matters, I think. So does symbolism.

In film or in photographs, the dominant association is always going to be the image with the thing it portrays. Everything stands for itself. In that way, it's harder to talk about things figuratively, it's harder to create nuance. And words can certainly stand for images, but then the association is looser, and there's more room to play with what means what, and how all the parts relate.

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11-22-2010 03:17 PM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #5
Re: Why are books so "good"?

I guess people think books are better because you have to use your imagination more... and because they don't understand that with many video games you have to use your brain as well. And some movies actually make you think.

I can't be bothered with books though 'cause I use my imagination all the time anyway. Razz

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11-22-2010 11:55 PM
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Re: Why are books so "good"?

Books are usually better for conveying intellectual ideas because you can get into a lot more detail, and the author can put more of a personal voice into it. Movies, games etc. are better at immersion and entertainment because it's more about visual/audio/etc. That's not to say that there aren't stupid books and smart games (Da Vinci Code+Bioshock) but it's a general trend simply because of the medium.

Also, another advantage of books is that it's a lot easier for one person to write a book than it is for them to make a movie or videogame from scratch. So you get a lot more diverse viewpoints from books. With movies and games, the creater's ideas are filtered through endless script meetings and programming decisions, not to mention the corporation that owns them.

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11-23-2010 01:10 AM
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Rastko Offline
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Post: #7
Re: Why are books so "good"?

[Most of] TV and video games mostly suck, but there are a lot of movies (particularly documentaries) which are at least as good source of information as book if not even better. However, internet is way better then books, since it gives many points of view, instead of the one (author's) in the book.

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02-15-2011 06:07 AM
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genuine anarchist Offline
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Post: #8
Re: Why are books so "good"?

Books are all good? Lol, Mein Kampf, Twilight, shitty romance or teen fiction, anyone?

Books are just another medium to get ideas across, though I admit, I prefer them to watching TV because I force myself to pay attention and do a lot of critical thinking. I also think the Internet is the greatest invention to ever grace mankind because you can do so much with it.
03-06-2011 12:53 AM
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AWOL Offline
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Re: Why are books so "good"?

Because people can't write for shit these days and books improve your literary skills more so than movies or games.

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03-06-2011 01:19 AM
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Faby Offline
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Post: #10
Re: Why are books so "good"?

I'm gonna chime in with what Rebelnerd said. I value books over films because of the sheer space for ideas that can be explored within them, space you cannot find in any other art form. Well, maybe video games.

Let go of all desire for the common good, and the good becomes common as grass.

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03-06-2011 01:24 AM
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AWOL Offline
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Post: #11
Re: Why are books so "good"?

I'll add something else to my reply though.

Only one book has made me feel an emotion, (third book from the Book of Lies trilogy) and that was more anger for the author than anything (the whole reason I read that book was compressed to a footnote within the epilogue. Noo ).

Video games, however, have made me feel genuine;

Loss, fear, affection, loneliness, insignificance, achievement, happiness, remorse, conflict, shock, sadness, helplessness, anger, bitterness. And the list goes on.


One of the reasons I take it very personally when people say that video games aren't art.

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03-06-2011 02:37 AM
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genuine anarchist Offline
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Re: Why are books so "good"?

Sorry to go off topic, but I also hate it when people think video games make people violent and stupid. No, troubled kids with access to guns act violent, not the majority of video game players who play games with violence (and strategy) in them.
03-06-2011 03:36 AM
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Re: Why are books so "good"?

Yeah, the people who say video games can't be art *coughRogerEbertcough* are being incredibly naive. The exact same thing was said about movies back in the 1920s. It can never be anything more than mindless entertainment, it will make kids violent and horny, it will destroy society...yeah. Never happened. And someone probably said the same thing about books when the printing press was invented

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03-06-2011 04:54 AM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #14
Re: Why are books so "good"?

genuine anarchist Wrote:Books are all good? Lol, Mein Kampf, Twilight, shitty romance or teen fiction, anyone?
Twilight is good.

Of course, I am an intelligent person who understands that whether a book is "good" is totally subjective.
But you're apparently an egocentric little child who thinks that everyone should believe what you believe and feel what you feel. (Implying that everyone thinks twilight is stupid and the people who read it anyway just have low standards or something. No. Their standards are not lower than yours, they're different.)

You can critique specific aspects of a book. You could say, for example, that a book has sentences that are too long or too short, or that it has grammar that's so bad it interferes with the reading, or that the characters are shallow or unbelievable (because of x, y, and z) but you can't say that any of these things makes the book "bad". No matter what, there could still be someone who garners enjoyment from the book, which, as far as I'm concerned, is the essential criterion for determining whether something that's intended to entertain is in fact "good".

I enjoyed reading twilight. I'd bet there are even some people who think it's the most perfect book they've ever read. All that means is that they have different tastes than you.

As my friend nicole said, "I like twilight; I just hate all of the characters." If a book can inspire feelings, of love or hatred, of admiration or disdain, that's something good to be said about the book. In my opinion at least. I know someone else might hate a book that does that. *shrug*

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03-06-2011 06:14 AM
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Faby Offline
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Re: Why are books so "good"?

I read the first pages of the first Twilight book and found them really okay. But that was back in 2008.

And I liked The Da Vinci Code when I read it, in 2006. I was 12 at the time.

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03-06-2011 06:19 AM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Re: Why are books so "good"?

Faby Wrote:I read the first pages of the first Twilight book and found them really okay. But that was back in 2008.
I read it right after the movie came out, so (looking it up) that was in november of 2008, I guess. I normally wouldn't give vampire stories a second glance (not even the allegedly good ones by anne rice or whoever the fuck) but a friend of mine recommended it. An intelligent friend. And her recommendation turned out to be good. I read twilight (and the sequels) again later and it was meh, but I really liked it the first time.

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03-06-2011 06:33 AM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Re: Why are books so "good"?

Ner, topic.

I hadn't really read in a long time, and I was on the computer all the time, and I felt really gross. So I got out a copy of I, Robot that I had bought years ago and never read, and I laid on the couch, turned off the tv and everything, and just read. And I felt really good. It's not passive like watching tv. I think that's definitely a good thing about books.

I think that's probably why the common "wisdom" is that books are better. Because you have to do something, you have to use your brain, to make the book "go". It's mental exercise.

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03-06-2011 06:37 AM
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AWOL Offline
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Re: Why are books so "good"?

I liked the Twilight books, but the movies made me squirm.

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03-06-2011 09:59 AM
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genuine anarchist Offline
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Re: Why are books so "good"?

Prince Rilian Wrote:Twilight is good.

That's your opinion; obviously, we disagree, but that's fine.

Prince Rilian Wrote:Of course, I am an intelligent person who understands that whether a book is "good" is totally subjective.
But you're apparently an egocentric little child who thinks that everyone should believe what you believe and feel what you feel. (Implying that everyone thinks twilight is stupid and the people who read it anyway just have low standards or something. No. Their standards are not lower than yours, they're different.)

I never said or even implied that people who don't think the same way I do are inferior. I was making the point that not all books are "good" for everyone. Twilight happens to be one of those "bad" books for me.

Prince Rilian Wrote:You can critique specific aspects of a book. You could say, for example, that a book has sentences that are too long or too short, or that it has grammar that's so bad it interferes with the reading, or that the characters are shallow or unbelievable (because of x, y, and z) but you can't say that any of these things makes the book "bad". No matter what, there could still be someone who garners enjoyment from the book, which, as far as I'm concerned, is the essential criterion for determining whether something that's intended to entertain is in fact "good".

So what't the point of critiquing the book if in the end, you're only allowed to say it's "good"? Because someone else may think differently from me and have different tastes, I'm not allowed to have my own opinion and disagree? Just because people get certain enjoyment from a movie or book doesn't mean I have to like said movie or book and find it "good." Nothing can be "good" for everyone; there is no ultimate criterion for determing if something is "good" for everyone; I was simply stating my personal hatred of Twilight. That's like saying a joke isn't a joke if not everyone laughs at it or enjoys it.

Prince Rilian Wrote:I enjoyed reading twilight. I'd bet there are even some people who think it's the most perfect book they've ever read. All that means is that they have different tastes than you.

As my friend nicole said, "I like twilight; I just hate all of the characters." If a book can inspire feelings, of love or hatred, of admiration or disdain, that's something good to be said about the book. In my opinion at least. I know someone else might hate a book that does that. *shrug*


Again, the different tastes and standards is the point. You contradicted yourself there with your previous quote, though, by insisting that no one is allowed to consider something "bad" because other people find it "good." As for your friend, she has her standards of what is "good," in a book. Personally, a book for me needs to make sense and follow it's own canon to be decent, let alone good. That, and not being written like fan fiction or having characters that are incredibly boring.
03-06-2011 03:14 PM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Re: Why are books so "good"?

You said twilight was bad. You didn't say you found it bad. You stated it like it was objective.

Whatever does it mean to be written like fan-fiction? I sure have heard that often about twilight and no one ever explains it.

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03-06-2011 04:55 PM
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AWOL Offline
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Re: Why are books so "good"?

Quite often fanfiction is better than it's source material.


Don't knock mediums, knock works.

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03-06-2011 05:12 PM
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genuine anarchist Offline
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Re: Why are books so "good"?

Prince Rilian Wrote:You said twilight was bad. You didn't say you found it bad. You stated it like it was objective.

And you said Twilight was good, stating it like it was objective. That's how people often state opinions; they find it true for themselves, but in no way was I looking down on anyone who liked Twilight.

Quote:Whatever does it mean to be written like fan-fiction? I sure have heard that often about twilight and no one ever explains it.

Fan fiction is notorious for self-insert characters, not following its own canon, wish fulfillment, and extremely verbose writing. Twilight has all four of these elements.

First, Bella is a self-insert Mary Sue of the author herself, or just a blank slate the reader can project him/herself onto, not an actual character. If you read the physical description Meyer provides for Bella, you'll realize that it's her minus 200 pounds.

Quote:In my head, Bella is very fair-skinned, with long, straight, dark brown hair and chocolate brown eyes. Her face is heart-shaped—a wide forehead with a widow's peak, large, wide-spaced eyes, prominent cheekbones, and then a thin nose and a narrow jaw with a pointed chin. Her lips are a little out of proportion, a bit too full for her jaw line. Her eyebrows are darker than her hair and more straight than they are arched. She's five foot four inches tall, slender but not at all muscular, and weighs about 115 pounds. She has stubby fingernails because she has a nervous habit of biting them. And there's your very detailed description


Yes, Bella is her, or you, or whoever wants to live in the Twilight fantasy world.

Second, Twilight doesn't follow its own canon so everything can always be convenient for the "good" characters. If vampires don't age, and humans age slowly, why does Bella and Edward's spawn age rapidly? So Jacob can have a young, beautiful mate, of course! Nothing else! Meyer has stated that vampires can't reproduce and that their sperm is dead, so why does Edward's sperm magically work? We are also told that Bella is notoriously clumsy, but when is this shown? Only to make her look "cute" so Edward or the other guys can save her, but never when it's inconvenient.

Third, Twilight is wish-fulfillment. Along with the Mary Sue character traits, Bella's life is quite...perfect, for the amount of bitching she does about it. She goes to a new school, and instantly, all the boys want her, all the girls want to be her best friend, almost every guy she runs into gets a boner, her father gives her an insane amount of freedom while still caring, and she's considered "mature," even though she's done' nothing to earn any of this. Many teenage girls would dream to have such a life. I'm not saying that one has to earn a loving family and friends; I 'm saying that Meyer constantly tries to pound us over the head with how much Bella is "suffering" and how she "grew up fast" when her life doesn't indicate either. It'd be interesting if Bella actually had a tragic flaw or past, but she's boring and spoiled. It's written for people who need something to bitch about and need to feel coddled about it (and yes, I know most Twilight readers aren't whiny, but the setup coddles the kind of person who doesn't want to solve their own problems and doesn't have a clue how the real world works). Also, she gets the "perfect guy" in the end simply because she's "special." Different, the one, etc. Apparently, it's because her blood smells good and he can't read her mind. None

Fourth, the writing is incredibly verbose. Meyer rapes the thesaurus every time she writes, using the longest word possible to make Bella sound smart, even when it doesn't make sense in context. Mark Twain once said to never use a long word or phrase when a shorter one will do. Also, does there really need to be 500 pages of Edward's appearance? I get it, he's hot! Does Meyer think I'm so dense I'll forget it? Meyer also has to hold the reader's hand and spell out everything, from the characters' pasts to their thoughts, rather than showing them and letting the reader make judgements on his/her own. This is irritating, especially when what she says doesn't match what she shows. Jessica is considered this bitchy, petty, jealous girl simply because Bella tells us; although what is shown is that Bella wouldn't have even had friends if it weren't for Jessica, and all that Jessica was ever jealous of was when Mike showed an interest in Bella, but other than that, nothing really. Not even Edward.

Those are just some major elements that make Twilight seem like badly written fan fiction.
03-07-2011 12:02 AM
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Post: #23
Re: Why are books so "good"?

AWOL Wrote:I'll add something else to my reply though.

Only one book has made me feel an emotion, (third book from the Book of Lies trilogy) and that was more anger for the author than anything (the whole reason I read that book was compressed to a footnote within the epilogue. Noo ).

Video games, however, have made me feel genuine;

Loss, fear, affection, loneliness, insignificance, achievement, happiness, remorse, conflict, shock, sadness, helplessness, anger, bitterness. And the list goes on.


One of the reasons I take it very personally when people say that video games aren't art.

I got really into the Atari 6400 version of Pac-Man and Miner 2049er and later I played Super Mario Bros on Nintendo a pretty lot. I remember getting sick of Super Mario Bros. I don't play video games anymore though, and I never really considered if great art has yet to occur in this medium. What's an example of an outstandingly artistic video game?

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03-07-2011 01:13 AM
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Post: #24
Re: Why are books so "good"?

Because video games and movies are more fun and enjoyable so they have to be considered "lower" art.

That's another pet peeve of mine. Anything that's enjoyable is considered a "guilty pleasure" at best. You can't just have fun with something, you have to analyze it or find hidden meanings. Even film is like that. I took a film class in college and of course, action or comedy movies were considered the worst and angsty, depressing, and unpleasent movies were the best.

What bullshit. I can analyze action or comedy movies and find my brilliance in them because it's SUBJECTIVE. The opinions that a movie has to be dark and depressing is just that AN OPINION!
03-07-2011 05:39 AM
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Post: #25
Re: Why are books so "good"?

AngryCollegeDude Wrote:What bullshit. I can analyze action or comedy movies and find my brilliance in them because it's SUBJECTIVE. The opinions that a movie has to be dark and depressing is just that AN OPINION!

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03-07-2011 06:17 AM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #26
Re: Why are books so "good"?

genuine anarchist Wrote:
Prince Rilian Wrote:You said twilight was bad. You didn't say you found it bad. You stated it like it was objective.

And you said Twilight was good, stating it like it was objective.
That was my opening statement, but unlike you I went on to clarify.
Of course you didn't just say it was bad, you said it was obviously of course laughably bad. And put it on the same level as the insane rantings of a murderous sociopath.
Excuse me if I got a little defensive.

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03-07-2011 06:20 AM
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Faby Offline
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Post: #27
Re: Why are books so "good"?

HeartofShadows Wrote:
AngryCollegeDude Wrote:What bullshit. I can analyze action or comedy movies and find my brilliance in them because it's SUBJECTIVE. The opinions that a movie has to be dark and depressing is just that AN OPINION!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... rtIsAngsty

Thank god it's 11 in the night, or I'd've spent 5 hours on there.

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03-07-2011 06:29 AM
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AWOL Offline
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Post: #28
Re: Why are books so "good"?

Faby Wrote:
HeartofShadows Wrote:
AngryCollegeDude Wrote:What bullshit. I can analyze action or comedy movies and find my brilliance in them because it's SUBJECTIVE. The opinions that a movie has to be dark and depressing is just that AN OPINION!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... rtIsAngsty

Thank god it's 11 in the night, or I'd've spent 5 hours on there.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Ma...inYourLife
TheCancer Wrote:
AWOL Wrote:I'll add something else to my reply though.

Only one book has made me feel an emotion, (third book from the Book of Lies trilogy) and that was more anger for the author than anything (the whole reason I read that book was compressed to a footnote within the epilogue. Noo ).

Video games, however, have made me feel genuine;

Loss, fear, affection, loneliness, insignificance, achievement, happiness, remorse, conflict, shock, sadness, helplessness, anger, bitterness. And the list goes on.


One of the reasons I take it very personally when people say that video games aren't art.

I got really into the Atari 6400 version of Pac-Man and Miner 2049er and later I played Super Mario Bros on Nintendo a pretty lot. I remember getting sick of Super Mario Bros. I don't play video games anymore though, and I never really considered if great art has yet to occur in this medium. What's an example of an outstandingly artistic video game?


Definitely check out ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, Ookami, Passage by John Rohmer, any of the Katamari games, all of the Half-Lifes... Really, you have to get in there for yourself, but those are some good places to start. ICO and SoTC are getting HD remakes, so w00t.

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03-07-2011 06:44 AM
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HeartofShadows Offline
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Post: #29
Re: Why are books so "good"?

AWOL Wrote:Definitely check out ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, Ookami, Passage by John Rohmer, any of the Katamari games, all of the Half-Lifes... Really, you have to get in there for yourself, but those are some good places to start. ICO and SoTC are getting HD remakes, so w00t.

Try Silent hill series(silent hill 2 first), maybe bioshock, Rez, xenogears, xenosaga series, Arcanum, fallout 1 and 2, Braid, baroque, psychonauts and Shin megami tensei nocturne... point is there is alot of them.

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03-07-2011 07:09 AM
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AngryCollegeDude Offline
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Post: #30
Re: Why are books so "good"?

HeartofShadows Wrote:
AngryCollegeDude Wrote:What bullshit. I can analyze action or comedy movies and find my brilliance in them because it's SUBJECTIVE. The opinions that a movie has to be dark and depressing is just that AN OPINION!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... rtIsAngsty

TvTropes is one of the best things to happen to the internet.
03-07-2011 07:46 AM
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