RIP School Survival Forums
August 2001 - June 2017

The School Survival Forums are permanently retired. If you need help with quitting school, unsupportive parents or anything else, there is a list of resources on the Help Page.

If you want to write about your experiences in school, you can write on our blog.

To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

-SoulRiser

The forums are mostly read-only and are in a maintenance/testing phase, before being permanently archived. Please use this time to get the contact details of people you'd like to keep in touch with. My contact details are here.

Please do not make a mirror copy of the forums in their current state - things will still change, and some people have requested to be able to edit or delete some of their personal info.


Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual
Author Message
Stadium Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 2,489
Joined: Nov 2011
Thanks: 1
Given 68 thank(s) in 47 post(s)
Post: #1
Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

After much thought, I've come to the conclusion that that is the answer. If a 4 year old is coerced into sex by a much older person, I think that's wrong. But sex between say a 10 year and someone over 18? When you were 10, would you have known what consent meant? I did.
Society assumes that because one is younger, they automatically don't know anything about anything. A 10 year old wouldn't know what consent is. That argument is complete bullshit.

Now RAPE in any form, child or adult, is WRONG.

umad Bulgvar?

No, this is Patrick.
03-03-2012 07:07 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Stadium Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 2,489
Joined: Nov 2011
Thanks: 1
Given 68 thank(s) in 47 post(s)
Post: #2
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

Does no one have any thought to share on this topic at all?

No, this is Patrick.
03-03-2012 08:07 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Desu Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 2,109
Joined: May 2009
Thanks: 165
Given 340 thank(s) in 182 post(s)
Post: #3
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

(03-03-2012 08:07 AM)StadiumArcadium Wrote:  Does no one have any thought to share on this topic at all?

I have many thoughts on the matter. I wrote a gigantic post about it on another website exploring the topic of pedophilia and somewhat,similarly weeaboos fapping to loli (so more broadly, the issue of attraction, beauty, what "relationship" means etc). Unfortunately this is SS and I don't really want to discuss it here. I'll be honest and say SS, for me, is just a place to blow steam and fuck around, like that one kid you hang out with, not necessarily because you think he's "cool", but because he's fun to be around, however you can't ever take him seriously, or actually scared if he ever got angry or something, I don't really know.

I will say that it's not as simple as right versus wrong, it's also oversimplifying when you analyze it within the context of consent. There's a lot to think about.

RIP GORE GOROTH

He was an hero. He will always be remembered.
(This post was last modified: 03-03-2012 09:13 AM by Desu.)
03-03-2012 09:13 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Teini Offline
Renegade

Posts: 70
Joined: Feb 2012
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
Post: #4
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

I was actually thinking about this yesterday. About what exactly makes pedophilia and incest wrong. I was mainly thinking about incest here. With incest, as soon as I thought about it, I felt a sinking feeling that it was wrong. But then I started to think, "why?" I thought of many different arguments against incest, but none really had much basis besides the influence of society deeming it wrong. Even when it came to genetic defects that can occur in the child. Years ago (I don't know if it's changed now) I read an argument for incest. They stated that there have never been any studies done on humans concerning incest and genetic defects that it can come with. It's all pretty much in theory. But even more so than that... Two people with let's say, mental disorders and so forth.. If they have a child together, that child is likely to have those disorders as well, as well as various diseases, etc. Does that mean we stop people with let's say a history of family depression from having kids? No. It's mainly a societal problem.
Same thing with kids. If I'm not mistaken, in ancient Greek society, pedophilia was pretty common. It was common practice for a man to have a younger boy as a lover. It was not thought of as wrong. In fact, homosexuality was also widely accepted in Greek society. Even more-so, the most accepted homosexual relationship between Greek males was between an older man and a pubescent/adolescent boy. I personally am not for pedophilia. I can't really provide you with a valid reason why. I feel that young children, as in 5 year olds, etc, aren't really aware of what sexuality is. I know I didn't. It was a period of innocence. Perhaps most people think that sexual encounters at that age steal innocence? Even if they 'consent', how can you fully consent to something you don't really know anything about? Especially at that young, when children are very mold-able and usually just look to please adults and not be "bad" or disobedient. I think that a lot of the negative repercussions that a child experiences because of being in a sexual relationship with an adult are induced by society. Again.. It seems to be mainly a societal problem. In today's world, I don't think pedophilia is a good thing.. I wouldn't want my child to be in a sexual relationship with an adult. I feel that there are so many other things to explore at that age. Becoming sexually active and exploring that aspect of life should be done when you have some modicum of maturity and ability to be able to understand what you are exploring. At that age.. I don't think that children can really fully understand it all. On top of that, the social stigma that comes along with it does not help. I really don't know much about this and haven't educated myself on it enough to have a really good opinion on it. But this is mainly from a generally uneducated standpoint on it.
I found this, by the way. Might be a good read if you're interested: http://www.hiddenmysteries.org/health/ef...hilia.html
It's about the effects sexual abuse has on children.
03-03-2012 09:37 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
gore goroth Offline
trollface abbath

Posts: 2,439
Joined: May 2011
Thanks: 4
Given 74 thank(s) in 52 post(s)
Post: #5
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

How do we know a child isn't being taken advantage of because he/she doesn't really know what a relationship is??

[Image: 1127%20-%20animated_gif%20crazy_frog%20d...mortal.gif]
03-03-2012 09:59 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Teini Offline
Renegade

Posts: 70
Joined: Feb 2012
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
Post: #6
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

(03-03-2012 09:59 AM)gore goroth Wrote:  How do we know a child isn't being taken advantage of because he/she doesn't really know what a relationship is??

This.
03-03-2012 10:01 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
UnschoolShqiponjë Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 3,622
Joined: May 2011
Thanks: 1
Given 221 thank(s) in 148 post(s)
Post: #7
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

(03-03-2012 10:01 AM)Teini Wrote:  
(03-03-2012 09:59 AM)gore goroth Wrote:  How do we know a child isn't being taken advantage of because he/she doesn't really know what a relationship is??

This.



I'd love to go into this here, but I am not going to. Let me just say I strongly disagree.

Where is sociopath?

Quote:just look to please adults and not be "bad" or disobedient.

LoL Yea kids listen to adults all the time every time! This argument is incredibly silly.

Live until you die
[Image: Untitled-1.png]
(This post was last modified: 03-03-2012 11:08 AM by UnschoolShqiponjë.)
03-03-2012 11:07 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Teini Offline
Renegade

Posts: 70
Joined: Feb 2012
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
Post: #8
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

(03-03-2012 11:07 AM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  
(03-03-2012 10:01 AM)Teini Wrote:  
(03-03-2012 09:59 AM)gore goroth Wrote:  How do we know a child isn't being taken advantage of because he/she doesn't really know what a relationship is??

This.



I'd love to go into this here, but I am not going to. Let me just say I strongly disagree.

Where is sociopath?

Quote:just look to please adults and not be "bad" or disobedient.

LoL Yea kids listen to adults all the time every time! This argument is incredibly silly.

You can disagree if you like. That's totally fine. If you want to post your argument or opinion on it, that's fine, too.
And I'm sure it does sound silly. Like I said at the end of my post, my opinion is a generally uneducated one. Somebody more familiar with the issue who has done more research on it could easily find any of the things I said in my post silly. I based the second quote off of something I read in SS here. Somebody had a thread on pedophilia and had some quotes from posters on a discussion board for pedophiles over the internet. The website he got it from is legal, apparently. Anyway, one of the quotes the user included was about a father who had charges for molesting his daughter (can't remember her age- pretty sure she was under 10). He talked about how the sexual interactions with his daughter were consensual. That she had the option to say no at any time, and sometimes she did. However, he mentioned that although that was the case he was sure there were a few times she let him give her oral in order to please him because he was her father.
God damn. I just tried looking through the forums to find you the topic to link it. And so I could post the quote here, too. You might've read it. I don't really fully remember it, but that's where I got it from. Definitely not doubting that parts of my post sounded silly, though. It's really more of my own speculations and such based off of my minimal knowledge of the subject. I wasn't really making much of an argument against it, though. Just putting in thoughts of why I think people perceive pedophilia as wrong and some thoughts as to why I personally think it's... Wrong. For lack of a better word. Like I said though, couldn't really come up with much of a solid argument against it while I was thinking about it.
(This post was last modified: 03-03-2012 11:41 AM by Teini.)
03-03-2012 11:40 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
UnschoolShqiponjë Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 3,622
Joined: May 2011
Thanks: 1
Given 221 thank(s) in 148 post(s)
Post: #9
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

Then how come with only sex stuff do you see it as bad, but if a child does something else to please their parent it is okay, like say... doing chores? Just playing devil's advocate. I am not giving my opinion.

Live until you die
[Image: Untitled-1.png]
03-03-2012 12:19 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
fish20 Offline
Penguins are birds

Posts: 1,347
Joined: Nov 2009
Thanks: 21
Given 32 thank(s) in 25 post(s)
Post: #10
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

I think pedophillia is wrong for people under 13. A 5 year old doesn't WANT sex. He doesn't know what it is or anything. I think taking advantage of kids because you are horny is stupid and selfish. However, I do think that the age of consent should be 13. At that age pretty much all kids know what sex is and have probably orgasmed before. And 13 year olds are really horny. It would not be rape if a 13 year old girl had a friend or something that was 25 and she came to him asking for sex. She would be a real whore, but whoring isn't illegal.
(This post was last modified: 03-03-2012 12:35 PM by fish20.)
03-03-2012 12:35 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Teini Offline
Renegade

Posts: 70
Joined: Feb 2012
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
Post: #11
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

(03-03-2012 12:19 PM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  Then how come with only sex stuff do you see it as bad, but if a child does something else to please their parent it is okay, like say... doing chores? Just playing devil's advocate. I am not giving my opinion.
I personally just think that the sexual aspect of life isn't something that should be introduced to really young children. They're innocent at that point, and are learning many other things. Like I said, I think the sexual aspect of life should be explored when they are old enough to be able to start to understand such things. A lot of people start becoming curious about sex around puberty. But prepubescent children are typically not concerned with it. I believe there's a time for everything, and I just don't feel that itd be ok to introduce the sexual aspect of life to a 5 year old boy or girl per se. This is really a sketchy subject, though. It's hard to explain my feelings about it because it's pretty much mainly influence by society's view of it and also I haven't done much thought or researched about it much. I just don't feel it's appropriate. When I've thought more about it and have educated myself more on the subject I'll come back with a better answer to your question, which by the way, is a good question.
03-03-2012 01:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
UnschoolShqiponjë Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 3,622
Joined: May 2011
Thanks: 1
Given 221 thank(s) in 148 post(s)
Post: #12
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

I sense much negative perception of sex and sexuality here. Just sayin.

Live until you die
[Image: Untitled-1.png]
03-03-2012 03:58 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Teini Offline
Renegade

Posts: 70
Joined: Feb 2012
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
Post: #13
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

I don't view sex and sexuality as anything negative. It's incredibly wonderful and is a great part of life to explore and experience. But it can have negative impacts on people. With the exploration of sex and sexuality comes a lot of intense emotion.. I personally think it's best to let people become interested in sex in their own time, which is typically around puberty. At this point at the very least they have the ability to grasp and start to understand sex and sexuality, and are able to appreciate it more at that age, too. But like I said, sex can have a potentially negative impact on people. An example can be teenagers that become sexually active too quickly and wind up being hurt by someone they develop intense feelings for because of the sexual interaction. Another example is victims of sexual abuse.
From the website I linked:
Quote:Effects of Child Sexual Abuse on Children. Contrary to the opinions of those who would minimize the negative consequences of adult-child sex, the effects are immediate and often severe. In a clinical study, Robert L. Johnson, M.D., found that “70% of those who had been molested (by a male or female) felt devastated immediately after the molestation incident had occurred.”23 Bill Watkins and Arnon Bentovim, in their review of research on the sexual abuse of male children, found three common short-term effects.24

One effect is the development of homosexual tendencies. Watkins and Bentovim found that adolescents attributed the onset of their homosexual desires to having been victimized by an older male. Secondly, male victims of sexual abuse often turn their rage outward and attempt to reassert their masculinity in inappropriate ways, such as aggressive and antisocial behavior. Finally, some boy victims try to recapitulate — or re-enact — their victimization, this time with themselves as the perpetrator and someone else as the victim.

Another common reaction is for the victim to withdraw into himself or herself, dejected and plagued with self-doubt. This only aggravates the pain, for it is thought that children who do not speak about their sexual abuse suffer greater psychic distress than those who are able to seek help.25 Johnson notes:

Low self-esteem and depression are the most important long-term effects experienced by sexually abused boys, along with a tendency to feel helpless and vulnerable. Some of these boys are almost compulsively drawn into situations where they are repeatedly victimized. Adult types of sexual dysfunction appear to be as common among former sexual abuse victims as they are in adult rape victims.26

These may include running away from home, being enticed into prostitution, promiscuous sex, and substance abuse.27

Finally, and not surprisingly, many of these children become suicidal. They are more likely than other maltreated children to receive the psychiatric diagnosis of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder.28 Because of the nature of the abuse, they have difficulty forming trusting relationships — especially with those they view as parental figures.
As for a prepubescent child being able to consent.. Even though you know what consent means, it's hard to actually understand what it means to consent to a sexual relationship. I know at 10 years old I did not know much about romantic relationships, let alone sexual relationships and how sex can impact a relationship. It's one thing to know and another to understand. Being able to handle a romantic relationship comes with maturity as you age. Some people are more mature than others at different ages, but I highly doubt let's say a 5 or 6 year old girl is going to be able to handle a romantic relationship, let alone a sexual one. Even at sixteen, or twenty years old, some people find it hard to handle those types of relationships. It's something people come to in their own time. I personally think that it's much too early to introduce a prepubescent child to a sexual relationship.
Understand where that person is at in their lives is something that comes into play with relationships with age gaps. Whether it's with someone who is ten years older/younger, 5 years, etc. You have to be able to understand where they're at in their life and what they're able to handle... Like if you were 16, and dating someone who was 14, as an example. You need to understand that the 14 year old is in a different place in their life. Even though it's a 2 year age gap, it matters. The 14 year old might be mature and very intelligent and knowledgeable, but might not be able to handle becoming sexually active just yet because they might not be emotionally matured enough. Same thing with an adult having romantic feelings for a prepubescent child. They need to understand that that child is more than likely not going to be able to adequately handle a romantic relationship. They're a child, they haven't reached that point of maturity in their life yet.
I've really been posting in this thread quite a bit.. And my posts are all lengthy. Sorry to be spamming your thread with my thoughts, OP.
(This post was last modified: 03-03-2012 04:24 PM by Teini.)
03-03-2012 04:23 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Teini Offline
Renegade

Posts: 70
Joined: Feb 2012
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
Post: #14
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

Also, here's a tidbit I got from the website/article previously linked in this thread by me. Might prove to be informative to those of you interested:

Hidden stuff:
Quote:Societal Disapproval and Pedophilia

Are the negative effects of child sexual abuse due solely to societal disapproval of pedophilia?

Pedophile organizations such as NAMBLA advocate the overturning of all laws regulating sex between adults and children. NAMBLA states, “We believe sex is good and wholesome. … We encourage and support young people in their rebellions against the anti-sexual restrictions imposed upon them by adults — parents, police, ‘moral’ crusaders, the church, the law, and the state.”45 According to this view, psychological dysfunction on the part of sexual abuse victims is caused by negative familial or societal attitudes toward adult-child sex. Were it not for such religion-based disapproval, alleges NAMBLA, children of all ages would freely and eagerly participate in a wide variety of sexual practices with adults.

This view is evident in Alfred C. Kinsey’s Sexual Behavior in the Human Male, published in 1948, which created a doctrine of “child sexuality” from data derived from the systematic molestation of hundreds of boys. Kinsey concluded that children are “sexual beings” from birth. In 1953, his companion volume, Sexual Behavior in the Human Female, stated, “It is difficult to understand why a child, except for its cultural conditioning, should be disturbed at having its genitals touched.”46

This position has been examined by researchers and found wanting. Kendall-Tackett, et al., reviewed studies testing the theory that an unsupportive family environment, not the sexually abusive activities per se, is the cause of trauma in sexually abused children:

However, certain evidence from the studies included in the present review argues against such a conceptualization. First, the studies showed that nonabused siblings (i.e., children raised in the same dysfunctional families) displayed fewer symptoms than did their abused siblings (Lipovsky, Saunders, & Murphy, 1989).47

If family dysfunction was actually causing the trauma, then all siblings should be similarly affected.

Angela Browne and David Finkelhor did find a relationship between how parents reacted to their child’s telling them about sexual abuse and the degree of negative symptoms experienced by the child:

The Tufts (1984) study found that when mothers reacted to disclosure with anger and punishment, children manifested more behavioral disturbances. However, the same study did not find that positive responses by mothers were systematically related to better adjustment. Negative responses seemed to aggravate, but positive responses did not ameliorate, the trauma.48

In other words, mothers who lacked compassion and understanding made a bad situation worse — but even those mothers who were supportive and tried to help could not prevent the negative effects from occurring.

Kendall-Tackett, et al., found,

[A] review of the 25 studies in which the influence of intervening variables was examined (Table 5) consistently showed strong relationships between specific characteristics of the sexual abuse and the symptomatology in the children (e.g., Newberger, Gremy, & Waternaux, 1990). All of this argues for traumatic processes inherent in the sexual abuse itself that are independent from a generalized family dysfunction or generalized maltreating environment.49

The Myth of Consent

Isn’t it true that some children desire and initiate sexual contacts with pedophiles?

Those who propose the legitimization of adult-child sex frame their cause as a moral crusade for the “freedom of choice” and the “rights” of children. They allege that children freely desire and willingly consent to have sex with adults, and are only prevented from doing so by oppressive societal condemnation. Thorstad rails against what he calls a “heterosexual dictatorship” that is ruthlessly stepping up its efforts to “control, police, and instill fear in the population.”50 The United States, according to Thorstad, “is becoming — perhaps already has become — a police state.” Why? Because of an “antisex hysteria” that prohibits boys and men from engaging in sexual relations: “Men and youths have always been attracted to each other, and, like homosexuality in general, their love is irrepressible.”51

Pedophiles attempt to portray adult-child sexual relationships as mutual, tender “coming of age” experiences fondly cherished by the child. Such arguments belie the reality of the well-documented dynamics involved in the seduction of children by beguiling, manipulative pedophiles.

Far from the stereotype of dirty, unkempt men hanging around playgrounds, most pedophiles are middle-class professionals who often live “next door,” and who spend weeks and even months “grooming” their victims. The modus operandi of child abusers is well known to both researchers and police. The Janus Report on Sexual Behavior notes, “Sergeant Lloyd Martin, formerly head of the Juvenile Vice Bureau of the Los Angeles Police Department, related to us that, when he sees a man who is much nicer to a child than any father would be, ‘I know I have a child abuser.’”52

Lieutenant William Spaulding of the Division of Criminal Intelligence in Louisville, Ky., shares his insight into the mind of the child abuser:

It is vitally important for those persons involved in the investigation of cases of exploited children to understand that a strong bond often develops between the child and the adult offender. The preferential child molester (pedophile) is very good at obtaining cooperation and gaining control of the child through well-planned seduction processes that employ adult authority, affection, attention, gifts, or threats — either articulated or implied.53

Many pedophiles have a “sixth sense” for spotting children who might be susceptible to their advances. In her analysis of adult sex offenders, Dawn Fisher describes the elaborate methods that molesters employ both to set up the situation where the abuse occurs and to overcome the child’s resistance:

The grooming of the victim may involve developing a friendship with the child, using bribes of affection and gifts, threats or physical violence. Some offenders may target particular children who are perceived as being vulnerable in some way, possibly through poor parenting or previous sexual abuse.54

Given the complex stratagems that pedophiles employ, it is understandable that few victims realize the ultimate goal of their newfound “friend.” A U.S. Department of Justice report on child sexual exploitation states, “Most preferential sex offenders spend their entire lives attempting to convince themselves and others that they are not perverts and that they love and nurture children.”55 The tragic fact is that children who are being preyed upon “have been carefully seduced and often do not realize they are victims. They repeatedly and voluntarily return to the offender.” The truth often does not become apparent to them until after they have been abandoned: “Then they see that all the attention, affection, and gifts were just part of a master plan to use and exploit them.”56

The report catalogues the lengths to which pedophiles can go, even after detection and arrest, to keep their victims loyal to them:

Because of their bond with the offender, victims frequently resent law enforcement intervention and may even warn the offender. Even the occasional victim who comes forward and discloses the abuse may feel guilty and then warn the offender. The offender may also continue to manipulate the victims after the investigation has begun — for example, by appealing to their sympathy or by making a feeble attempt at suicide to make them feel guilty or disloyal.57

Even after incarceration for their crimes against children, pedophiles cling to the notion that their relationships with their victims were consensual. Richard Beckett, in his study on sex offenders, found that pedophiles

typically display a range of more fundamental distortions, related to the belief that some children will actively seek sexual encounters with adults, can consent to and benefit from such encounters and have the capacity to reciprocate the degree of emotional feeling and attachment the adult abuser may feel for the child.58

Such “fundamental distortions” or moral reasoning are aggressively promoted by pedophile advocates such as NAMBLA, which is vocal in its insistence that the sodomizing of young boys constitutes an act of “love.” But do pedophiles really care about children? Beckett’s findings regarding this question are revealing:

Several studies of child abusers have indicated they are impaired in their capacity for empathy, particularly towards their own victim. … When victims are perceived as deserving of abuse, guilty of provoking or enjoying sexual contact with adults, their distress is likely to be ignored.59

Thus, the self-deception of pedophiles that children seek after and “enjoy” being sodomized serves as a convenient justification for ignoring the trauma inflicted upon their young victims.

The Morality of Consent

Shouldn’t children be permitted to engage in sex with adults if they so choose?

While the empirical findings of the harm caused by adult-child sex constitute a compelling argument that pedophilia should never be permitted in any society that values its children, there is yet another consideration that carries momentous weight. In a perceptive analysis, David Finkelhor, noted researcher of child sexual abuse, explores the moral issue of consent that lies at the heart of the societal prohibition of adult-child sex.60

The idea of consent is one of the fundamental notions governing social interaction. Even though the larger culture may no longer subscribe to what it considers a restrictive, “Victorian” sexual morality, the idea of consent remains at the heart of what is considered permissible behavior. Consent involves more than a simple “yes”: The individual and his or her circumstances must demonstrate the giving of informed consent.

In pre-Civil War America, some slaves felt that slavery was a positive economic benefit to them. After all, they received food and housing in exchange for their labor. Similarly, in the child sweatshops of the past century, there were perhaps many children who, if asked, would claim that they enjoyed their work and that it was good for them. Nevertheless, few would argue that such questionable self-evaluation warrants the conclusion that either slavery or child labor is justifiable.

There were occasions in the concentration camps of World War II when selected newly arriving women were given the choice of becoming the short-lived mistresses of SS guards or going directly to the gas chamber. Some chose the former option, though it meant only a temporary reprieve from certain death. Could it be claimed that these women truly “consented” to having sexual relations with their guards?

The concept of informed consent is well established in law. Hence, a woman, even though she may not have struggled or called out for help and may even appear to have “cooperated” with her rapist, is not assumed to have genuinely consented to the sexual act. That is because, as in the other described illustrations, the circumstances make it clear that the individual is either not giving, or is incapable of giving, true consent.

To these examples Finkelhor adds the situation of sexual relations between therapists and patients: “Many patients may benefit from sex with their therapist, but the argument that sex is wrong does not hinge on the positive or negative outcome that results. Rather, it lies in the fundamental asymmetry of the relationship.”61

According to Finkelhor, certain conditions must prevail for informed consent to occur. The person must understand what he or she is consenting to, and must have true freedom to say yes or no. Are children capable of fulfilling this condition in “consenting” to sex with adults? Finkelhor denies that they can:

For one thing, children lack the information necessary to make an ‘informed’ decision about the matter. They are ignorant about sex and sexual relationships. More important, they are generally unaware of the social meanings of sexuality. For example, they are unlikely to be aware of the rules and regulations surrounding sexual intimacy — what it is supposed to signify. They are uninformed and inexperienced about what criteria to use in judging the acceptability of a sexual partner. … [They cannot know] what likely consequences it will have for them in the future.62

Children may genuinely like the adult who is molesting them — or, more to the point, may have become emotionally or otherwise dependent upon the pedophile. They may willingly spend time with their molester, and may even find some enjoyment in the physical sensation of pleasure. But all this is not enough: The fundamental conditions of genuine consent are not present. Children “lack the knowledge the adult has about sex and about what they are undertaking. … In this sense, a child cannot give informed consent to sex with an adult.”63

For their part, the advocates of pedophilia “do not acknowledge the enormous manipulativeness and callous lack of regard for children’s well being that characterize the behavior of many persons who try to seduce children. Most children are not capable of protecting their own interests in the face of this power and this guile.”64 In truth, Finkelhor says, “Most of what we see as ‘consensual’ behavior among children is a response to the powerful incentives and authority that such adults hold.”65

The force of this argument is not lost on those who would argue for greater acceptance of pedophiles. British researchers Glenn D. Wilson and David N. Cox’s study of pedophilia, The Child-Lovers, expressly attempts to view pedophiles in a more positive light than is generally accorded them. To accomplish this, Wilson and Cox drew their research subjects from a support group for pedophiles. Yet despite their efforts to present the self-understanding of “successful” pedophiles, in the end the authors balk at legalizing non-coercive adult-child sexual relationships:

We are inclined to agree with the argument of Finkelhor (1979) that the issue of empirical harm needs to be separated from the more directly moral question of whether meaningful consent can ever be obtained from a child. Although modern society has moved towards a permissive stance with respect to any mutually consenting sexual activity that is harmless to the parties involved, we still regard sex as immoral if there is any suggestion that social power has been abused in obtaining it. This applies to doctor-patient relationships, boss-worker (e.g. the fabled ‘casting couch’ in the theatre) and teacher-pupil relationships, even if the pupil is above the age of consent. Adult-child relationships in general fall into this category. Children are trained to respect and obey all adults, not just their parents, and this results in such an imbalance of social power that legalizing sex between adults and children could quite easily result in exploitation.66

In the face of these weighty concerns leveled against pedophilia, the advocates of adult-child sex prefer to frame the argument as one of the “right of children” to “control their own bodies.” What such proponents are actually arguing for is for the “liberation” of pedophiles to prey on children. And their professed crusade to “liberate” children sexually has not thus far sparked a groundswell of popular opinion in their favor. Finkelhor observes that “it seems extremely doubtful that any large group of children are complaining that they are not ‘allowed’ to engage in sex with adults. If polled, we suspect that children would vote for better protection against adult sexual overtures, not more ‘freedom.’”67

Link to website if anyone's interested: http://www.hiddenmysteries.org/health/ef...hilia.html
03-03-2012 04:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bulgarianlion Offline
Viva la Socialism!

Posts: 1,030
Joined: Feb 2012
Thanks: 1
Given 18 thank(s) in 13 post(s)
Post: #15
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

I hope you wake in some pedo house, stripped naked with a big dildo in your ass~
03-03-2012 06:54 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Efs Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 3,981
Joined: Mar 2010
Thanks: 2
Given 101 thank(s) in 70 post(s)
Post: #16
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

There only described as taboo and "bad" because for some reason society associated lots of negative connotations with sex. I think age in sex shouldn't matter until the child is capable of understand the possible consequences and the act itself, thoroughly.

(01-10-2012 02:15 PM)Maelstrom Wrote:  Efs, your nihilism is beautiful.
(This post was last modified: 03-03-2012 10:32 PM by Efs.)
03-03-2012 10:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
aaaaaaasd Offline
Grorious Moddu

Posts: 7,344
Joined: Oct 2007
Thanks: 1
Given 50 thank(s) in 38 post(s)
Post: #17
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

(03-03-2012 12:35 PM)Fish20 Wrote:  I think pedophillia is wrong for people under 13. A 5 year old doesn't WANT sex. He doesn't know what it is or anything. I think taking advantage of kids because you are horny is stupid and selfish. However, I do think that the age of consent should be 13. At that age pretty much all kids know what sex is and have probably orgasmed before. And 13 year olds are really horny. It would not be rape if a 13 year old girl had a friend or something that was 25 and she came to him asking for sex. She would be a real whore, but whoring isn't illegal.
mfw fish is literally the only person making sense here
03-04-2012 12:14 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
RammsteinFearFactory Offline
Celery Addict's metalhead friend

Posts: 622
Joined: Oct 2011
Thanks: 23
Given 33 thank(s) in 28 post(s)
Post: #18
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

(03-04-2012 12:14 AM)BaronVonStrangle Wrote:  
(03-03-2012 12:35 PM)Fish20 Wrote:  I think pedophillia is wrong for people under 13. A 5 year old doesn't WANT sex. He doesn't know what it is or anything. I think taking advantage of kids because you are horny is stupid and selfish. However, I do think that the age of consent should be 13. At that age pretty much all kids know what sex is and have probably orgasmed before. And 13 year olds are really horny. It would not be rape if a 13 year old girl had a friend or something that was 25 and she came to him asking for sex. She would be a real whore, but whoring isn't illegal.
mfw fish is literally the only person making sense here

[Image: adhd_mild.gif]
03-04-2012 01:20 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SoulRiser Offline
Site Founder

Posts: 18,238
Joined: Aug 2001
Thanks: 2669
Given 1978 thank(s) in 1208 post(s)
Post: #19
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

Age limits are stupid.

But on the other hand, 'consent' isn't quite as simple as yes or no. A 5 year old might even like it, but does that mean he understands what's actually going on?

I think understanding is important with things like this. I don't think people magically understand this stuff at a certain age though. Some might 'get it' at 13 or whatever. Some might not get it until they're 30.

So I really don't care, tbh, as long as nobody's being duped into doing things they don't understand.

"If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them." - Dalai Lama
Help & Support - Get help with leaving school, unsupportive parents, and more.
Click here if school makes you depressed or suicidal

Support School Survival on Patreon or Donate Bitcoin Here: 1Q5WCcxWjayniaL92b8GfXBiGdfjmnUNa2
"Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it." - André Paul Guillaume Gide
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination." - Albert Einstein
"I'm pretty sure there's a lot of beauty that can only be found in the mind of a lunatic." - TheCancer
EIPD - Emotionally Incompetent Parent Disorder

Push Button for Collection of Useful Links:
Hidden stuff:
03-04-2012 07:12 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
gore goroth Offline
trollface abbath

Posts: 2,439
Joined: May 2011
Thanks: 4
Given 74 thank(s) in 52 post(s)
Post: #20
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

What if this whole entire thread was just made to piss off Bulgvar???? TRUST NO1.

[Image: 1127%20-%20animated_gif%20crazy_frog%20d...mortal.gif]
03-04-2012 09:22 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Teini Offline
Renegade

Posts: 70
Joined: Feb 2012
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
Post: #21
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

Lmao
03-04-2012 09:25 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Thought Criminal Offline
Frame 313

Posts: 10,133
Joined: May 2007
Thanks: 12
Given 106 thank(s) in 80 post(s)
Post: #22
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

mfw this thred

[Image: 1306209889817-1.jpg]

In all seriousness though children under the age of about 13 really don't know what they are getting into. They may like what is going on but it isn't informed consent because they don't really understand what is happening even if you explain it to them. I'm all for lowering the age of consent to 13 or so or having something where you cant be prosecuted if you are within 5 years of your mate. The current system just makes no goddamn sense but that doesn't make physical pedophilia okay. (Pictures are a whole other matter though.)
03-04-2012 12:17 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Sociopath Offline
©o℗yright Infringe®

Posts: 3,692
Joined: Mar 2008
Thanks: 682
Given 160 thank(s) in 104 post(s)
Post: #23
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

Firstly, stop throwing around the word "sexual abuser" there's no 'abuse' going on here.
Like I previously stated, just make sure a kid can understand about STD prevention and make them educated about things. Personally, I don't think you're giving kids enough credit, and ultimately, it is their life and thus their choice. I hear you saying "they don't know what's going on" well then, TELL THEM. You might be telling yourself that they won't understand, but remember age does NOT beget wisdom; if they can form sentences and ideas in their head, they can make their own choices. As for the "what if they're doing this to please an adult" thing, this has to rely on them actually believing in that, which we cannot be sure of, we have to consult the child of this as well.

Hidden stuff:
TRIGGER WARNING: THIS TRIGGER WARNING CONTAINS TRIGGER WARNINGS!

Dear Tumblrites: Despite your wrongly self-diagnosed PTSD, no line of scientific evidence suggests people can be triggered over the internet. Triggering works through the senses (i.e. smell, taste, touch, vision, hearing.) but it goes through real time; if you're not experiencing it in real life as it's ACTUALLY HAPPENING in your ACTUAL life, you CANNOT be triggered. The only exception to this is if you have a seizure, but then again, that's triggered by epilepsy (i.e. rapidly-changing flashing lights) NOT PTSD. Remembering a bad incident is NOT the same thing as having a flashback. When you remember, you think; when you flashback, you feel.

#HashTagsAreForIdiots

[Image: violator_blackbg_110x32.gif]
Max Stirnir Wrote:"In the time of spirits thoughts grew till they overtopped my head, whose offspring they yet were; they hovered about me and convulsed me like fever-phantasies -- an awful power. The thoughts had become corporeal on their own account, were ghosts, e. g. God, Emperor, Pope, Fatherland, etc. If I destroy their corporeity, then I take them back into mine, and say: "I alone am corporeal." And now I take the world as what it is to me, as mine, as my property; I refer all to myself." The Ego and Its Own, pg. 15
Charles Manson Wrote:“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”
HeartofShadows Wrote:"Life is nothing more than a druggie trying to get their quick fix of happiness while dealing with the harsh withdrawal of reality"
Osip Mandelstam Wrote:"I divide all of world literature into authorized and unauthorized works. The former are all trash; the latter--stolen air. I want to spit in the face of every writer who first obtains permission and then writes." The Fourth Prose, 1930.
Lukas Foss Wrote:That is why the analogy of stealing does not work. With a thief, we want to know how much money he stole, and from whom. With the artist it is not how much he took and from whom, but what he did with it.
PIRATE Pirate2 MEMBER
 Pirate Join the crew!Pirate
03-04-2012 12:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Teini Offline
Renegade

Posts: 70
Joined: Feb 2012
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
Post: #24
Wink RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

(03-04-2012 12:50 PM)Sociopath Wrote:  Firstly, stop throwing around the word "sexual abuser" there's no 'abuse' going on here.
Like I previously stated, just make sure a kid can understand about STD prevention and make them educated about things. Personally, I don't think you're giving kids enough credit, and ultimately, it is their life and thus their choice. I hear you saying "they don't know what's going on" well then, TELL THEM. You might be telling yourself that they won't understand, but remember age does NOT beget wisdom; if they can form sentences and ideas in their head, they can make their own choices. As for the "what if they're doing this to please an adult" thing, this has to rely on them actually believing in that, which we cannot be sure of, we have to consult the child of this as well.
I completely understand what you're saying. Maybe I'm not giving kids enough credit. I'm really just going off of personal experience and what I've observed, which isn't much. I've known quite a few people who have been sexually abused by a pedophile. And I didn't think I was throwing around the word sexual abuse, but alright. But the people I've known have been sexually abused by a pedophile, as in, the sexual encounter was not consensual. However it all comes down to each individual, and whether or not they have wisdom and all that is really subjective.. I discussed this with a friend yesterday, actually. He said a lot of it is a grey area, but there needs to be a general rule of thumb, which I think is puberty. However, everyone is going to have different opinions on the matter, based on their perspectives and such. I do completely understand your view on it, though. And you might be right. Like I said.. It's a really grey area. Probably why it's so hard for me to form much of an opinion on the matter. Did you read the article I linked? Any opinion of it? In reading it I was thinking it sounded a tad biased.
03-04-2012 03:01 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Teini Offline
Renegade

Posts: 70
Joined: Feb 2012
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
Post: #25
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

I dunno. XD These types of issues make me run circles in my head. I think I'll stop posting with the satisfaction of thinking a bit deeply about something I've never really given much thought, having heard other people's perspectives, and having educated myself a bit more on the issue.
I am satisfied. I will revisit this thread no longer!!!
03-04-2012 03:08 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
UnschoolShqiponjë Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 3,622
Joined: May 2011
Thanks: 1
Given 221 thank(s) in 148 post(s)
Post: #26
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

(03-04-2012 12:50 PM)Sociopath Wrote:  Firstly, stop throwing around the word "sexual abuser" there's no 'abuse' going on here.
Like I previously stated, just make sure a kid can understand about STD prevention and make them educated about things. Personally, I don't think you're giving kids enough credit, and ultimately, it is their life and thus their choice. I hear you saying "they don't know what's going on" well then, TELL THEM. You might be telling yourself that they won't understand, but remember age does NOT beget wisdom; if they can form sentences and ideas in their head, they can make their own choices. As for the "what if they're doing this to please an adult" thing, this has to rely on them actually believing in that, which we cannot be sure of, we have to consult the child of this as well.

Sense from a sociopath.


Teini. Be careful with studies. Anything pro adult/child sexual relations is mainly anecdotal, anything anti adult/child sexual relations never controls for anything and are incredibly biased. Imagine if a researcher controlled for consent, controlled for the culture, and controlled for the adult reactions? They'd get called a pedophile because the results will likely be very disliked.

Live until you die
[Image: Untitled-1.png]
03-04-2012 03:33 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Prince Rilian Offline
attic fan

Posts: 2,229
Joined: Mar 2010
Thanks: 0
Given 57 thank(s) in 47 post(s)
Post: #27
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

I personally know two people who had sex with other children when they were 5 years old.

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
03-04-2012 04:56 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Stadium Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 2,489
Joined: Nov 2011
Thanks: 1
Given 68 thank(s) in 47 post(s)
Post: #28
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

Sociopath knows what's going on here

No, this is Patrick.
03-04-2012 04:57 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Teini Offline
Renegade

Posts: 70
Joined: Feb 2012
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
Post: #29
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

(03-04-2012 03:33 PM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  
(03-04-2012 12:50 PM)Sociopath Wrote:  Firstly, stop throwing around the word "sexual abuser" there's no 'abuse' going on here.
Like I previously stated, just make sure a kid can understand about STD prevention and make them educated about things. Personally, I don't think you're giving kids enough credit, and ultimately, it is their life and thus their choice. I hear you saying "they don't know what's going on" well then, TELL THEM. You might be telling yourself that they won't understand, but remember age does NOT beget wisdom; if they can form sentences and ideas in their head, they can make their own choices. As for the "what if they're doing this to please an adult" thing, this has to rely on them actually believing in that, which we cannot be sure of, we have to consult the child of this as well.

Sense from a sociopath.


Teini. Be careful with studies. Anything pro adult/child sexual relations is mainly anecdotal, anything anti adult/child sexual relations never controls for anything and are incredibly biased. Imagine if a researcher controlled for consent, controlled for the culture, and controlled for the adult reactions? They'd get called a pedophile because the results will likely be very disliked.
Yeah, you're right. Hence why I mentioned the whole thing seemed a tad biased to me. I'm still not entirely sure where I stand with this issue, though. Went back on my not coming back to this thread!! Curiosity got the best of me. Ehh..
03-04-2012 05:29 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
fish20 Offline
Penguins are birds

Posts: 1,347
Joined: Nov 2009
Thanks: 21
Given 32 thank(s) in 25 post(s)
Post: #30
RE: Pedophilia isn't wrong as long as it's consensual

(03-04-2012 04:56 PM)Prince Rilian Wrote:  I personally know two people who had sex with other children when they were 5 years old.

Thats not pedophillia Banana
03-04-2012 06:11 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  Click here to help stop pedophilia True Strasserist 27 6,182 09-21-2009 04:19 PM
Last Post: Elfy

Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | School Survival | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication