Why Can't the Gifted Learn?

[NightThoughts]

I learned to read at age 3 and was reading way ahead in kindergarten. When I was luckily homeschooled, I was the smartest of our three kids and loved learning. Shoved back into public school, I was still way ahead and just got even more so as the years went on. Now that I'm bucking the educrats (education mixed with autocrats), my parents still acknowledge I'm smarter and get straight As in middle-school's equivalent of AP. I won the spelling bee (but no breaks on the mindlessly easy spelling tests), found loads of information on gifted education, wrote an essay on my loathing of school, and even some of my teachers (old and new) acknowledge that I'm a font of knowledge.

So why do I have to take Latin with a bunch of nitwit teenage girls? Why do I need to take classes about architecture and carpentry when my passion is for science? Why is my learning watered down because of the slower people, and why can't I learn how I want to learn?

Nearly every state has some form of legislation on gifted education, Massachusetts and a few others excepted. I want to scream when I hear that we're taking tests on pronouns and volcanoes. How much more can it be repeated?

Does anyone else think that we gifted people (think that I qualify as gifted) are being corrupted by this? Does anyone else have recommendations for keeping my brain active?

[Prince Rilian]

(02-09-2012 11:47 AM)NightThoughts Wrote:  I learned to read at age 3

Me too. Did you learn it by yourself too?

[SaintVicious]

this is why i hate stupid people

[Stadium]

You kind of come off as a self righteous asshole in this post

[Prince Rilian]

(02-09-2012 12:43 PM)SaintVicious Wrote:  this is why i hate stupid people

It is illogical to blame the stupid classmates. They are being forced to be there just as much as you are.

[SaintVicious]

(02-09-2012 01:54 PM)Prince Rilian Wrote:  

(02-09-2012 12:43 PM)SaintVicious Wrote:  this is why i hate stupid people

It is illogical to blame the stupid classmates. They are being forced to be there just as much as you are.

Except they wouldn't shut the fuck up, fine if you have a question ask it but otherwise shut the fuck up so we can get this shit over with.
Stupid people talk loudly and too much.

[Absnt]

Actually this is a very legitimate concern. Those lucky enough to have natural academic talents are stifled in a lot of schools around the world. (And even the schools that have A.P programs, and shit like that end up having shitty A.P programs because non-A.P kids get in and slow shit down. And teachers aren't qualified. Along with a host of other problems.) Eh, this wouldn't be a problem in democratic self-paced learning. It's the educational mind-set that is fucking shit up.

It's the same thing with slower-paced kids. Putting them in a classroom with faster kids makes them feel like shit. They feel like they aren't smart enough, which in turn makes them try even less. It's not a fucking motivator, it makes kids depressed. (For no apparent reason, really.) Separating kids into groups NEVER works. Everyone knows who the fast paced kids are and who the kids in the "slower" classes are. It's impossible to hide it. It's a bad situation all around. (Also, while obviously being smarter is preferable, we mustn't feel superior because of it. Nobody chose their intelligence.)

The only solution is democratic self-paced education where students can excel in what they are good at and work on what their not if necessary, AT THEIR OWN DAMN PACE IN THEIR OWN DAMN WAY.

[Prince Rilian]

(02-09-2012 01:56 PM)SaintVicious Wrote:  

(02-09-2012 01:54 PM)Prince Rilian Wrote:  

(02-09-2012 12:43 PM)SaintVicious Wrote:  this is why i hate stupid people

It is illogical to blame the stupid classmates. They are being forced to be there just as much as you are.

Except they wouldn't shut the fuck up, fine if you have a question ask it but otherwise shut the fuck up so we can get this shit over with.
Stupid people talk loudly and too much.

It's still not their fault. They should be set free so they can talk or do whatever they want. You should be set free and study, if that's what you want to do.

There is no getting it over with. It lasts 7 hours a day no matter what.

[Prince Rilian]

(02-09-2012 02:14 PM)Absentinsomniac Wrote:  Actually this is a very legitimate concern. Those lucky enough to have natural academic talents are stifled in a lot of schools around the world. (And even the schools that have A.P programs, and shit like that end up having shitty A.P programs because non-A.P kids get in and slow shit down. And teachers aren't qualified. Along with a host of other problems.) Eh, this wouldn't be a problem in democratic self-paced learning. It's the educational mind-set that is fucking shit up.

It's the same thing with slower-paced kids. Putting them in a classroom with faster kids makes them feel like shit. They feel like they aren't smart enough, which in turn makes them try even less. It's not a fucking motivator, it makes kids depressed. (For no apparent reason, really.) Separating kids into groups NEVER works. Everyone knows who the fast paced kids are and who the kids in the "slower" classes are. It's impossible to hide it. It's a bad situation all around. (Also, while obviously being smarter is preferable, we mustn't feel superior because of it. Nobody chose their intelligence.)

The only solution is democratic self-paced education where students can excel in what they are good at and work on what their not if necessary, AT THEIR OWN DAMN PACE IN THEIR OWN DAMN WAY.

I was kind of mad about this stuff when I was 10-12 years old, but now I realize that there's nothing they can do in a school to make it a good learning experience. As long as you believe that school is *the* place for learning, you're going to be stifled.

It would be better if kids would just view school as the bullshit waste of time that it is, not let it affect them, and then put the rest of their time to good use. But there's a couple of problems that get in the way. One is that kids are taught that school is not just a bullshit waste of time, but is an essential learning experience and is also pretty much your only chance to learn... so most kids come to hate even the idea of learning because school is terrible and school == learning (or so they're told) so therefore learning is terrible. Another problem is that even if you are a smart and motivated kid who can't initially be held down by that school shit, when you try to get your parents to help you access learning opportunities, they just say they don't want to waste their time and money and energy on that because that is what school is for. I had this problem in elementary school. Then I gave up and become a mindless drone until I finally quit school at age 16.

[gore goroth]

The public school system is made to make everyone think the same way. Reading at a young age doesn't really mean you're gifted. I just means you can read. Its not even that hard but half the kids in 5th grade can't read fluently because public education is shit. Homeschooled kids usually read far better. My parents taught me to read Dr. Seuss stuff at age four within a few hours. I took a reading test 1st grade and I got ZOMG 3rd grade level. Not because I was a super genius, but because I learned somewhere that wasn't a shitty public school.

[gore goroth]

(02-09-2012 02:14 PM)Absentinsomniac Wrote:  Actually this is a very legitimate concern. Those lucky enough to have natural academic talents are stifled in a lot of schools around the world. (And even the schools that have A.P programs, and shit like that end up having shitty A.P programs because non-A.P kids get in and slow shit down. And teachers aren't qualified. Along with a host of other problems.) Eh, this wouldn't be a problem in democratic self-paced learning. It's the educational mind-set that is fucking shit up.

It's the same thing with slower-paced kids. Putting them in a classroom with faster kids makes them feel like shit. They feel like they aren't smart enough, which in turn makes them try even less. It's not a fucking motivator, it makes kids depressed. (For no apparent reason, really.) Separating kids into groups NEVER works. Everyone knows who the fast paced kids are and who the kids in the "slower" classes are. It's impossible to hide it. It's a bad situation all around. (Also, while obviously being smarter is preferable, we mustn't feel superior because of it. Nobody chose their intelligence.)

The only solution is democratic self-paced education where students can excel in what they are good at and work on what their not if necessary, AT THEIR OWN DAMN PACE IN THEIR OWN DAMN WAY.

Absent, star poster of this thread.

[Stadium]

No one else finds the whole "I'm so smart everyone else is an idiot I'm better than everyone around me" thing kind of...?

[gore goroth]

(02-09-2012 03:47 PM)StadiumArcadium Wrote:  No one else finds the whole "I'm so smart everyone else is an idiot I'm better than everyone around me" thing kind of...?

I think it usually happens to kids who start out learning somewhere other than public school.

[Prince Rilian]

I do not think I'm smart for knowing how to read or whatever. I just think I'm lucky. Even if someone is smart, they still need a burst of inspiration to get a new idea.

[Absnt]

^ That's the other thing. Perhaps the kids who were taught early on to read, and to do basic addition and shit are the ones who excel early on. If they excel early on, they continue to excel because they feel good about themselves and think they are smart so work hard to be smart.

Those that don't know shit when they first go in end up feeling stupid, which perpetuates itself and they give up assuming they have no "natural talent". I don't thin kit's debatable that some kids have more academic talent than others, but this scenario probably plays out more than we realise.

[gore goroth]

(02-09-2012 04:02 PM)Absentinsomniac Wrote:  ^ That's the other thing. Perhaps the kids who were taught early on to read, and to do basic addition and shit are the ones who excel early on. If they excel early on, they continue to excel because they feel good about themselves and think they are smart so work hard to be smart.

Those that don't know shit when they first go in end up feeling stupid, which perpetuates itself and they give up assuming they have no "natural talent". I don't thin kit's debatable that some kids have more academic talent than others, but this scenario probably plays out more than we realise.

Not really my experience, I just think moving to public school redardified my learning. I was considered super advanced too until I went to public school, then I was just average.

[Prince Rilian]

My parents didn't teach me anything. But I still think I was just lucky to get a burst of inspiration to see how writing worked. I remember the first word I read. My dad was reading me a story and I was trying to follow along, and then he said the word "can" and I saw this word that seemed to be at about the right place, and it had three letters in it, and the word "can" has three sounds ... so I stopped him and asked if that was the word "can" and he said yes. That was when I was 3 years old, and then by the time I was 5, I was able to read everything.

[Absnt]

Interestings... I literally don't remember any of my early childhood, but meh.

[Stadium]

Excelling at school does not equal smartness. I learned how to read early and read books bigger than anyone I know. It doesn't mean I'm smarter than them. It kind of pisses me off whenever people brag about themselves because the vast majority of the time it's just their ego.

[NightThoughts]

I commend you people (StadiumArcadium for example) who kind of reigned me in there. Yeah, sorry, I was just really frustrated when I wrote that post. I apologize for coming off that way. I guess I can't blame the less intelligent. It's really just the parents who signed the forms and stuck them in the harder classes. Yes, I did learn by myself, my mom wasn't actually trying to teach me but instead entertain me by reading and I got lucky by looking at the words. Or some such nonsense. Sometimes I wonder...does it indicate intelligence at all to excel in this awful education system?

[Prince Rilian]

Usually if I mention that I learned to read when I was 3-5 and that I did it on my own, it's because some 'tard is saying that you have to go to school to learn to read.

[Stadium]

(02-10-2012 05:24 AM)NightThoughts Wrote:  I commend you people (StadiumArcadium for example) who kind of reigned me in there. Yeah, sorry, I was just really frustrated when I wrote that post. I apologize for coming off that way. I guess I can't blame the less intelligent. It's really just the parents who signed the forms and stuck them in the harder classes. Yes, I did learn by myself, my mom wasn't actually trying to teach me but instead entertain me by reading and I got lucky by looking at the words. Or some such nonsense. Sometimes I wonder...does it indicate intelligence at all to excel in this awful education system?

No, it doesn't. Up until middle school I was a perfect straight A student then around 7th grade I realized how fucking stupid it all was and just quit trying.
And I'm not saying you're dumb or anything, it just annoys me when people brag about themselves. Even if you're good at reading/whatever, I'm sure a lot of the people in your classes are better than you at a lot of other things. There is no smarter, everyone has their strengths and weaknesses...what is smartness, anyway? Your reading level? Anyone can improve that with practice.

[NightThoughts]

Very true words. Among those other things I know is listening to others...which I would do well to heed. Thanks for your words of wisdom!

[1312]

I actually used to think that I'm smart, because I got all best grades.
But in 7th grade I realized that it's all a big piece of shit and won't benefit me at all in future and that society is one big fucked up thing and it's view of education and intelligence is messed up.
I think intelligent human being is whoever understands what this society, government and people are all about and knows better than most people about what's going on in the world.

So now I'm a proud intelligent loner.

That's my opinion of myself, everyone else can just fuck off, because they don't think like me, they think like society. (Irony..?)

[SaintVicious]

(02-10-2012 05:27 AM)StadiumArcadium Wrote:  Your reading level? Anyone can improve that with practice.

Except idiots don't because they are 2kool4skool

[1312]

(02-10-2012 09:04 AM)SaintVicious Wrote:  

(02-10-2012 05:27 AM)StadiumArcadium Wrote:  Your reading level? Anyone can improve that with practice.

Except idiots don't because they are 2kool4skool

Hmm, there are too many idiots in my class...

LEVEL OF IDIOTS IS TOO DAMN HIGH!

Must kill.

[NightThoughts]

[/quote]

Hmm, there are too many idiots in my class...

LEVEL OF IDIOTS IS TOO DAMN HIGH!

Must kill.
[/quote]

I second that opinion.

[IamNoone]

(02-10-2012 05:27 AM)StadiumArcadium Wrote:  

(02-10-2012 05:24 AM)NightThoughts Wrote:  I commend you people (StadiumArcadium for example) who kind of reigned me in there. Yeah, sorry, I was just really frustrated when I wrote that post. I apologize for coming off that way. I guess I can't blame the less intelligent. It's really just the parents who signed the forms and stuck them in the harder classes. Yes, I did learn by myself, my mom wasn't actually trying to teach me but instead entertain me by reading and I got lucky by looking at the words. Or some such nonsense. Sometimes I wonder...does it indicate intelligence at all to excel in this awful education system?

No, it doesn't. Up until middle school I was a perfect straight A student then around 7th grade I realized how fucking stupid it all was and just quit trying.
And I'm not saying you're dumb or anything, it just annoys me when people brag about themselves. Even if you're good at reading/whatever, I'm sure a lot of the people in your classes are better than you at a lot of other things. There is no smarter, everyone has their strengths and weaknesses...what is smartness, anyway? Your reading level? Anyone can improve that with practice.

Many of us ARE smarter than the average person academically. Smart-ness is a reflection of how much you know, and it is pretty straightforward who is smarter than who academically, at least in as limited of a spectrum as school subjects go.
I think you are confusing smartness with intelligence.

[NightThoughts]

That is possibly true, IamNoone.

[gore goroth]

Regular classes or AP, shit don't matter. The supposed "AP" kids at my school talk about the same stupid shit everyone else does. "ZOMG, did U watch jersey shore????" Good grades don't make you smarter as a person.