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The police state is brilliant.
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HeartofShadows Offline
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Post: #1
The police state is brilliant.

Don't ban guns... Just ban the ammo.

Quote:Trenton, NJ --(Ammoland.com)- Common hunting, target, and self-defense ammunition would be subject to ban under A588, along with BB’s, airgun pellets, and plastic airsoft pellets!

Additional legislation being considered (A1013) could land gun owners in jail for refinished or damaged firearms that might be deemed “defaced”

On Monday, January 30 at 2:00 p.m. the New Jersey Assembly Law & Public Safety Committee is scheduled to consider A588, legislation that would enable the Attorney General to ban all handgun and most rifle ammunition if he unilaterally determines that it “poses a threat to the safety and well being of law enforcement officers.”

Cleverly disguised as police safety legislation aimed at armor piercing ammunition (which is already prohibited under federal and state law), the measure actually opens the door to a sweeping ammunition ban by an unelected public official by executive fiat. Common hunting, target, and self-defense ammunition would be subject to ban, along with BB’s, airgun pellets, and non-metallic ammunition like plastic airsoft pellets, if the Attorney General decides that they pose a threat to the safety and well being of law enforcement.

Although the bill only mentions handgun ammunition, it is in fact not limited to handgun ammunition, and would apply to all rifle ammunition for which a handgun if ever made. As an increasing number of gun manufacturers make handgun models that shoot rifle caliber ammunition, the line between “handgun” vs. “rifle” ammunition has become blurred, and the New Jersey State Police have already begun treating rifle ammunition in this category as if it were handgun ammunition for regulatory purposes.

So long as a handgun exists that shoots a particular caliber of rifle ammunition, New Jersey treats that ammunition as if it were handgun ammunition.

The Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee is also scheduled to consider A1013 on Monday. One provision of this police safety legislation significantly increases the penalties relating to “defaced” firearms. Because of New Jersey’s longstanding poorly crafted definition of “defaced” firearms, it is possible that refinishing a firearm, or long-term damage from rust or scratches from ordinary wear and tear, could be deemed “defacement” subjecting honest gun owners to lengthy prison sentences, even though identifying information on the firearm is still legible.

http://www.ammoland.com/2012/01/27/nj-as...ce-safety/

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01-30-2012 10:26 PM
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HeartofShadows Offline
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Post: #2
RE: The police state is brilliant.

Update

Quote:Trenton, NJ --(Ammoland.com)- On Friday afternoon January 27th, news broke on various social networks that four Northern New Jersey autocratic Assembly members snuck two new sweeping and completely unnecessary anti-gun bills onto the calendar of the Law and Public Safety Committee for Monday January 30th.

Assembly Bill A588 concerns a new ammunition ban, cleverly disguised and marketed for the protection of Law Enforcement, but granting unprecedented powers to an unelected official, in the form of the State Attorney General; to unilaterally ban any ammunition, of any type or construction, including incredibly enough, benign plastic “BB’s “of the type used by Airsoft Toys, if the Attorney General deems them a “threat to the safety or welfare of Law Enforcement “.

When reached for comments over the rationale and reasoning for such an onerous proposal, an aide to one of the sponsors claimed the bill was only concerned with banning a particular type of round, the FN 5.7 caliber SS109AP Armor Piercing one, fired from the FN Pistol, due to its concerns that the round in question can penetrate multiple layers of Kevlar Bullet Resistant Vests most commonly issued to Police Officers. Ignore for the moment the blatant and almost certainly Un Constitutional vesting of near omnipotent regulatory powers in an unelected and unaccountable Official in favor of focusing on the concerns over the ammunition specifically referenced in the Statement and the language of the proposed legislation in general.

The Statement portion of the proposal, which briefly explains the sponsors reasoning, appears on its face to target only the SS109AP 5.7 round.

A round which is already restricted by both NJ State and Federal Law to Law Enforcement and Military personnel.

This is readily apparent from the description of the type of round in question, with the AP initials standing for, quite obviously, its designation as an Armor Piercing round. Essentially this means that the sponsors of this legislation are arguing to make an already prohibited round “more illegal “ then it already is. How this is a logical conclusion on the parts of the various Assemblypersons is anyone’s guess. More troubling is the intentionally over broad language found in the proposal that would potentially make possession of virtually any round of ammunition by a law abiding citizen a criminal offense at the whim of the Attorney General.

There are any number of common and ubiquitous rifle rounds that are used in target competitions, hunting and numerous other completely legal activities that are fully capable of penetrating standard Police Issue body armor. And as more manufacturers continue to develop and market handguns that fire a rifle caliber bullet, the threat becomes obvious. The language of the proposed legislation would most certainly grant the ability to outlaw those rounds by fiat, merely by a finding by the Attorney General that they “pose a threat to the safety and welfare of Law Enforcement Officers”. As AirSoft toys are not considered firearms under NJ law, despite the best efforts of ideological hoplophobes in the Legislature, it’s a mystery why AirSoft “BB’s” are included in the language.

At a future date the AG could conceivably issue an opinion and finding that because an AirSoft pellet might cause a red mark or “shoot someone’s eye out” that they meet the criteria of posing a threat to the safety and welfare of Law Enforcement and must therefore be banned.

Assembly Bill A1013 concerns “defaced firearms “ and is once again written so poorly as to criminalize the ownership use or possession of any firearm whose factory finish has been degraded by use, age or rust, or replaced, changed or enhanced with the application of numerous firearms finishing products such as “bluing “ chemicals or DuraCoat products. Anonymous sources that spoke to the primary sponsor of A1013 on Friday, Assemblyman and Law and Public Safety Committee Chairman Charles Mainor; told this journalist that

Assemblyman Mainor ‘s intent with A1013 was solely to deal with the criminal use of defaced firearms, meaning ones that had their serial numbers obliterated by criminals in order to frustrate any potential law enforcement investigation.

Once again, this is an act that is already a Federal Level Felony, so it remains unclear why a new law making it “more illegal “ is felt necessary.

Word from my sources is that Assemblyman Mainor intends to have the overly broad language stricken from the proposal.

In an effort to be fair in my capacity as an independent journalist, I contacted the offices of each of the sponsors of both A588 and A1013, seeking on the record comments of their reasoning and explaining that I was under a 48 hour deadline. While the various aides or spokespersons were unfailingly polite and promised to get back to me either with a statement from the sponsors or to request the sponsors contact me directly to get their opinions from the horse’s mouth as it were, not one of them actually did.

I will also be following up with the NJ State Police Public Information Officer as soon as possible to get their position on these matters, specifically A588 and whether or not there is even a concern among Law Enforcement over the already banned SS109AP round, or if this is as a solution looking for a problem that doesn’t exist. My own belief, one shared by anyone familiar with the 30 year history of draconian firearms laws is that A588 is a thinly veiled effort to perform an end run around Second Amendment rights in NJ, effectively neutering them beyond all recognition. It has long been argued by various Pro Gun Control groups, their enablers in the Legislature and their sycophants in the media that; if they cant accomplish an outright gun ban, they would pursue the next best course, efforts to ban ammunition, which if successful would render law abiding citizens firearms as useful and effective as a paperweight.

So why are certain Legislator’s pursuing this course?

Simple, they are ideological purists, smug in their sense that they know better than everyone else, and will do whatever they can, and we the Citizens allow, to force their views on others via the force of law. It’s far easier for them to blame an inanimate object and its accessories, to slander and demonize a politically incorrect segment of society and to cater to voters who get their knowledge of firearms from Hollywood. It’s about power and control, about crass political expediency and nothing more. Legislators like the sponsors of A588 count on people’s ignorance and apathy, they use deceit and misrepresentation, aided and abetted by a complicit media to ram through policies they know won’t have any meaningful effect on criminals, in favor of punishing innocent people and running roughshod over the Second Amendment.

For twenty plus years we have witnessed, ever more onerous Feel Good Anti-Gun Legislation in NJ, so that politicians can claim to be “doing something “ about violent crime, forgetting or more likely not caring the least about the fact that criminals by their very definition are predisposed to not follow the law to begin with. These policies don’t work, haven’t worked and in fact can’t work. What will pay noticeable dividends in reducing violent crime is cracking down hard on criminals that commit violent acts while possessing a firearm, including stiff, minimum mandatory sentences that will not be plea bargained away so a Prosecutor can notch another guilty plea in his or her file.

In the interim, I urge anyone reading this to contact the sponsors of both A588 and A1013, plus the members of the Law and Public Safety Committee and politely but vociferously voice your steadfast opposition to these proposals and your commitment to do everything possible to ensure their defeat in addition to any future similar legislation and those in office that come up with it, while ignoring going after criminal misuse of firearms. Even better, if at all possible given the short notice; make every effort to journey to Trenton tomorrow, Monday January 30th and voice your opposition and resolve in person during the public comment portion of the Law and Public Safety Committee hearing to be held at 2 pm.

http://www.ammoland.com/2012/01/29/cabal...gun-bills/

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01-30-2012 10:32 PM
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Stadium Offline
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Post: #3
RE: The police state is brilliant.

I didn't read the second one but they aren't taking my ammo that I don't have yet
Once I live on my own I will get ammo, and guns, illegally if I have to.

No, this is Patrick.
01-31-2012 03:12 AM
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gore goroth Offline
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Post: #4
RE: The police state is brilliant.

(01-31-2012 03:12 AM)StadiumArcadium Wrote:  I didn't read the second one but they aren't taking my ammo that I don't have yet
Once I live on my own I will get ammo, and guns, illegally if I have to.

this^^

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01-31-2012 04:20 AM
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Levio_Sah Away
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Post: #5
RE: The police state is brilliant.

PISTOL WHIPPED

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"Unrequited love can be survived in a way that once-requited love cannot."
01-31-2012 06:59 AM
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aCol Offline
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Post: #6
RE: The police state is brilliant.

So, they ban ammo? They do realize that they literally encourage people to make ammo on their own - which can have consequences if you don't have the expertise.

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02-01-2012 08:31 AM
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HeartofShadows Offline
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RE: The police state is brilliant.

(02-01-2012 08:31 AM)aCol Wrote:  So, they ban ammo? They do realize that they literally encourage people to make ammo on their own - which can have consequences if you don't have the expertise.

There was some bill(forgot the name) that if repealed would make benches that you use to make your own ammo illegal.

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02-01-2012 09:28 AM
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SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Offline
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Post: #8
RE: The police state is brilliant.

Wow, this is what I was thinking when I was riding the train home with two cops. Police state.

To be an anarchist, is to suffer greatly. To be a black woman is to suffer secretly. To be the earth, is to suffer silently.

I wish no harm on anyone, but those whose harmful ways will not stop without the same harm.

It's time we kill this cancerous system, before it kills us and everything left of gaia. Rise from our immaturity and take back our autonomy!

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02-01-2012 10:48 AM
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aCol Offline
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RE: The police state is brilliant.

(02-01-2012 09:28 AM)HeartofShadows Wrote:  
(02-01-2012 08:31 AM)aCol Wrote:  So, they ban ammo? They do realize that they literally encourage people to make ammo on their own - which can have consequences if you don't have the expertise.

There was some bill(forgot the name) that if repealed would make benches that you use to make your own ammo illegal.

Who cares? Even these can be home made, although hard, but it is possible.
Damn I bet some would even profit by selling ammo illegal.

RIP GORE GOROTH

RIP GORE GOROTH

RIP GORE GOROTH
02-01-2012 10:55 AM
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HeartofShadows Offline
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RE: The police state is brilliant.

(02-01-2012 10:55 AM)aCol Wrote:  Who cares? Even these can be home made, although hard, but it is possible.
Damn I bet some would even profit by selling ammo illegal.

Just what I was thinking ahole.
This could be another lucretive underground market.

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02-01-2012 11:42 AM
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aCol Offline
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RE: The police state is brilliant.

We should improve the bill then! Let's make a fortune by importing and making bullets on our own, then selling them!

Just as a question, can "legally" made bullets be traced back easier than "illegal" made ones?

RIP GORE GOROTH

RIP GORE GOROTH

RIP GORE GOROTH
02-01-2012 11:07 PM
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Efs Offline
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RE: The police state is brilliant.

*enters thread*
(02-01-2012 11:42 AM)HeartofShadows Wrote:  Just what I was thinking ahole.
LOL
*leaves >_>*

(01-10-2012 02:15 PM)Maelstrom Wrote:  Efs, your nihilism is beautiful.
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2012 03:35 PM by Efs.)
02-02-2012 03:35 PM
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