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Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)
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Stadium Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

Going by your logic it's NOT okay for us to be lazy.

No, this is Patrick.
02-04-2012 12:03 PM
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SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(02-04-2012 11:15 AM)Sapphire Flames Wrote:  I'm not sure where I stand on it.

The reason I believe you hate civilization Shotgun is the fact that it abuses the land around it correct?

Not only that, but it abuses the humans and all life in general. And currently has life on earth on the edge of existence.

Peak oil, is happening, it's real, it's going on right now. Inflation, economic collapse, mass starvation. Even global warming.

It's also unsustainable and breeds sociopaths.

To be an anarchist, is to suffer greatly. To be a black woman is to suffer secretly. To be the earth, is to suffer silently.

I wish no harm on anyone, but those whose harmful ways will not stop without the same harm.

It's time we kill this cancerous system, before it kills us and everything left of gaia. Rise from our immaturity and take back our autonomy!

[Image: 2010-10-04-lost-my-appetite.jpg]
02-04-2012 12:18 PM
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SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(02-04-2012 12:03 PM)StadiumArcadium Wrote:  Going by your logic it's NOT okay for us to be lazy.

No, it's OKAY. To be lazy. Lazy is an opinion actually. Humans don't have to work 40 hours a week just to survive. I mean, before civilization, we didn't have a concept of work.

Especially when work is remedial, abstract tasks, that are meaningless. Like honestly, what meaning is it to spend your life typing or filing papers.
WHat kind of shit is that?

To be an anarchist, is to suffer greatly. To be a black woman is to suffer secretly. To be the earth, is to suffer silently.

I wish no harm on anyone, but those whose harmful ways will not stop without the same harm.

It's time we kill this cancerous system, before it kills us and everything left of gaia. Rise from our immaturity and take back our autonomy!

[Image: 2010-10-04-lost-my-appetite.jpg]
02-04-2012 12:23 PM
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Sociopath Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

"Anarchy" comes from the Greek word "An" meaning "Without" and "Archos" meaning "leader."
Anarchy means to be without a leader. That's all Anarchy is. Anything else you decide to attach to its meaning is nothing more than a personal idealized opinion. So no, Anarchy is not against civilization.

Your argument of 'agriculture WILL lead to money and rulers and oppression' is just a classic example of a Slippery Slope . It is possible to have Anarchy with civilization and mutual co-operation in with power manifests itself in the individual or everyone and not a single entity, nor a government.

Also, primitvism is not racist. Its just a system where technology is shunned. You're saying its racist is clearly a Strawman .

And I reject the notion of living in hunter-gatherer societies. Aside from the fact that hunting for meat is speciesist, it seems authoritarian to exert power over another (as Anarchy is strictly non-hierarchial, and assuming the role to control another's fate contrasts with Anarchism as it implies you are a leader over another being who will control them. "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."), and can't possibly provide for EVERYONE in the world.

What's so bad about farming, anyway? We get food, we feed people, everyone's happy. While I may agree there are some harmful agents, we can farm without them just fine, and it is a system I strongly endorse. Simple. We farm without using harmful chemicals and other related shit, and we eat the crops. Besides, the plants and trees in the world can't provide for everyone if we repeal farming; they'll all just starve to death.

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Dear Tumblrites: Despite your wrongly self-diagnosed PTSD, no line of scientific evidence suggests people can be triggered over the internet. Triggering works through the senses (i.e. smell, taste, touch, vision, hearing.) but it goes through real time; if you're not experiencing it in real life as it's ACTUALLY HAPPENING in your ACTUAL life, you CANNOT be triggered. The only exception to this is if you have a seizure, but then again, that's triggered by epilepsy (i.e. rapidly-changing flashing lights) NOT PTSD. Remembering a bad incident is NOT the same thing as having a flashback. When you remember, you think; when you flashback, you feel.

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Max Stirnir Wrote:"In the time of spirits thoughts grew till they overtopped my head, whose offspring they yet were; they hovered about me and convulsed me like fever-phantasies -- an awful power. The thoughts had become corporeal on their own account, were ghosts, e. g. God, Emperor, Pope, Fatherland, etc. If I destroy their corporeity, then I take them back into mine, and say: "I alone am corporeal." And now I take the world as what it is to me, as mine, as my property; I refer all to myself." The Ego and Its Own, pg. 15
Charles Manson Wrote:“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”
HeartofShadows Wrote:"Life is nothing more than a druggie trying to get their quick fix of happiness while dealing with the harsh withdrawal of reality"
Osip Mandelstam Wrote:"I divide all of world literature into authorized and unauthorized works. The former are all trash; the latter--stolen air. I want to spit in the face of every writer who first obtains permission and then writes." The Fourth Prose, 1930.
Lukas Foss Wrote:That is why the analogy of stealing does not work. With a thief, we want to know how much money he stole, and from whom. With the artist it is not how much he took and from whom, but what he did with it.
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02-06-2012 05:21 AM
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Miller0700 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(02-06-2012 05:21 AM)Sociopath Wrote:  ....hunting for meat is speciesist....

Hunting for sport is speciesist. Hunting for survival isn't.

Previously known as Derchin.
02-06-2012 06:39 AM
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Sociopath Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(02-06-2012 06:39 AM)Derchin Wrote:  
(02-06-2012 05:21 AM)Sociopath Wrote:  ....hunting for meat is speciesist....

Hunting for sport is speciesist. Hunting for survival isn't.
We don't need meat for survival. As Ayliana has helped point out, we currently produce enough food to feed the entire world without meat.

Hidden stuff:
TRIGGER WARNING: THIS TRIGGER WARNING CONTAINS TRIGGER WARNINGS!

Dear Tumblrites: Despite your wrongly self-diagnosed PTSD, no line of scientific evidence suggests people can be triggered over the internet. Triggering works through the senses (i.e. smell, taste, touch, vision, hearing.) but it goes through real time; if you're not experiencing it in real life as it's ACTUALLY HAPPENING in your ACTUAL life, you CANNOT be triggered. The only exception to this is if you have a seizure, but then again, that's triggered by epilepsy (i.e. rapidly-changing flashing lights) NOT PTSD. Remembering a bad incident is NOT the same thing as having a flashback. When you remember, you think; when you flashback, you feel.

#HashTagsAreForIdiots

[Image: violator_blackbg_110x32.gif]
Max Stirnir Wrote:"In the time of spirits thoughts grew till they overtopped my head, whose offspring they yet were; they hovered about me and convulsed me like fever-phantasies -- an awful power. The thoughts had become corporeal on their own account, were ghosts, e. g. God, Emperor, Pope, Fatherland, etc. If I destroy their corporeity, then I take them back into mine, and say: "I alone am corporeal." And now I take the world as what it is to me, as mine, as my property; I refer all to myself." The Ego and Its Own, pg. 15
Charles Manson Wrote:“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”
HeartofShadows Wrote:"Life is nothing more than a druggie trying to get their quick fix of happiness while dealing with the harsh withdrawal of reality"
Osip Mandelstam Wrote:"I divide all of world literature into authorized and unauthorized works. The former are all trash; the latter--stolen air. I want to spit in the face of every writer who first obtains permission and then writes." The Fourth Prose, 1930.
Lukas Foss Wrote:That is why the analogy of stealing does not work. With a thief, we want to know how much money he stole, and from whom. With the artist it is not how much he took and from whom, but what he did with it.
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02-06-2012 06:53 AM
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Post: #37
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

What is this faggotry?

(02-04-2012 08:52 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Civilization requires expansion. That's why traditional hunter-gatherer peoples can not live in harmony with civilization. Because civilizations need to constantly import resources and use the earth up.

[Image: not-this-shit-again.jpg]

Shotgun we've been over this. True hunter-gatherer societies died out long before civilization, and they did so for a reason.

Quote:You just don't make a farm and go from there. Agriculture leads to civilization. Firstly agriculture is the most destructive thing that humans have done to the earth.It requires you to nuke every living thing in an area, including the topsoil which is the basis of all life....It leads to inequality and hierarchy, and it also results in the draining of rivers, deforestation, and eventually salinization

Not necessarily. Sustainable agriculture exists, it was practiced by the Native Americans for hundreds of years before European settlers came along.

Quote:It takes back-breaking labour, humans are not meant to be workers and toilers, it's okay for us to be lazy.

Nice Fallacy of Composition there Shotgun. Just because you're not meant to be a worker doesn't mean the rest of us arent.

And the whole "back breaking labour" bit is complete bullshit. The reason agriculture has won out over H/G is because it's not back breaking. Unlike H/G, agriculuture produces more food than what any individual or village needs at the exact moment and it provides higher quality food ensuring better health and longevity. This excess of food means that a farmer doesn't have to exert himself 24/7 and he can focus on more intellectual pursuits such as art, music, or the development of new techology to make his life even easier.

A hunter/gatherer on the other hand is in a complete state of relocation and allocation of resources. When he does attain those resources, they're often very poor quality compared to the what the farmer has; because unlike the farmer, he doesn't have a surplus to sit on to allow him to focus on his other needs. He has to focus all of his time on everything, and that is not only labour intensive, but it's mentally exhausting as well.

And lets not forget the fact that there is safety in numbers. A H/G tribe of 15 people is more likely to be wiped out by natural predators or other tribes of hunter gatherers. A villiage of 100 or even just 50 people can chase off most natural threats.

Quote:Plus annual monocrops, are not good for human health or soil, and are to be blamed for many diseases.

wikipedia Wrote:Monocropping is the high-yield agricultural practice of growing a single crop year after year on the same land, in the absence rotation through other crops

Of course monocropping is bad for the enviornment. You plant and harvest the same thing year after year you're going to deplete the soil of the resources needed to sustain those crops. Crop rotation has been around for thousands of years, since the Romans, and is a main component to Heifer Internationals sustainable agriculture program.

Quote:Of course your not against civilization, your a proud product of mainstream media marketing and individualistic liberal absurdity.

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02-06-2012 07:40 AM
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SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(02-06-2012 05:21 AM)Sociopath Wrote:  "Anarchy" comes from the Greek word "An" meaning "Without" and "Archos" meaning "leader."
Anarchy means to be without a leader. That's all Anarchy is. Anything else you decide to attach to its meaning is nothing more than a personal idealized opinion. So no, Anarchy is not against civilization.

Your argument of 'agriculture WILL lead to money and rulers and oppression' is just a classic example of a Slippery Slope . It is possible to have Anarchy with civilization and mutual co-operation in with power manifests itself in the individual or everyone and not a single entity, nor a government.

Also, primitvism is not racist. Its just a system where technology is shunned. You're saying its racist is clearly a Strawman .

And I reject the notion of living in hunter-gatherer societies. Aside from the fact that hunting for meat is speciesist, it seems authoritarian to exert power over another (as Anarchy is strictly non-hierarchial, and assuming the role to control another's fate contrasts with Anarchism as it implies you are a leader over another being who will control them. "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."), and can't possibly provide for EVERYONE in the world.

What's so bad about farming, anyway? We get food, we feed people, everyone's happy. While I may agree there are some harmful agents, we can farm without them just fine, and it is a system I strongly endorse. Simple. We farm without using harmful chemicals and other related shit, and we eat the crops. Besides, the plants and trees in the world can't provide for everyone if we repeal farming; they'll all just starve to death.

Firstly, primitivism is a racist term, coined by Europeans withdrawalists, and Wanderlogs to describe indigenous peoples. Indigenous people are not "primitive", they are advanced and intelligent, who have a sustainable way of living.

Meat is not spieciest, what the fuck are you talking about? It is impossible to not eat other lifeforms. That is the natural cycle of life. We eat animals, animals eat plants, plants protect the soil, the soil eats us all.
We NEED meat. Are bodies run on animal fats and proteins.

I don't believe if we had revolution to sustainable living, that it's be hunter- gatherer, but we'd have to live on sustenance permaculture, and polycultures. We could have anarchist communes with farming, but there will always be a "leader" and positions of hierarchy and order within these communities. But no, you wold not have civilization with anarchy, civilization is centralized government and economy.

I'm not against farming, it's agriculture. Agriculture is the most destructive thing you can do to the environment. It nukes topsoil, drains rivers, leads to city states, that require the importation of resources, which means imperialism. That is not a slippery slope, that is reality.

Polycultural , sustenance, permaculture farming is the only way to go because it works on relationships based in nature, not simply to grow mono crops, and to grow humans.

Quote:We don't need meat for survival. As Ayliana has helped point out, we currently produce enough food to feed the entire world without meat.

We NEED meat for health, and eating plant based diets will fail our health and lead to disease. We do have enough food to feed the world, but due to the economic reasonings of civilization we cannot disperse it equally.

Quote:True hunter-gatherer societies died out long before civilization, and they did so for a reason

Not true, civilization killed most of the hunter-gatherer societies. True hunter-gatherer societies did not die out long before civilization:
These are ones currently struggling for existence today.
Batek
Bushmen
Cimba people
Cro-Magnon
Hadza people
Indigenous Australians
Inuit
Man of Flores
Mbuti
Neanderthals
Nukak-Makú
Pirahã
Pygmies
Sentinelese
Spinifex People
Yupik

Quote:Not necessarily. Sustainable agriculture exists, it was practiced by the Native Americans for hundreds of years before European settlers came along.

Yeah sustainable, AGRICULTURE, not civilization. And actually, native americans had civilizations and they disappeared too. Native Americans lived with the land for a long time, and knew who to grow it based on relationships found in nature, plus they weren't mainly farmers. They were part-time, farmers, foragers, and hunters.

To be an anarchist, is to suffer greatly. To be a black woman is to suffer secretly. To be the earth, is to suffer silently.

I wish no harm on anyone, but those whose harmful ways will not stop without the same harm.

It's time we kill this cancerous system, before it kills us and everything left of gaia. Rise from our immaturity and take back our autonomy!

[Image: 2010-10-04-lost-my-appetite.jpg]
02-06-2012 09:37 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

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02-06-2012 09:47 AM
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Stadium Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

We don't need meat, with a good meat free diet we're actually healthier.

No, this is Patrick.
02-06-2012 09:58 AM
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Post: #41
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

Oh bitch ima have a field day with you... Check back later people I'm on my iPhone so this might take awhile.
02-06-2012 10:00 AM
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Post: #42
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

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Previously known as Derchin.
02-06-2012 10:05 AM
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SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

Quote:We don't need meat, with a good meat free diet we're actually healthier.

Sigh,

Watch on YouTube

Why do I even bother? Im bout to join the occupy movements. Theres no time left, seriously guys.

The European economy is collapsing, 99 percent of forests are gone, 3/4 of the world is starving, nigeria is revolting, and the ocean is too acidic for plankton.

Read Deep Green Resistance.

To be an anarchist, is to suffer greatly. To be a black woman is to suffer secretly. To be the earth, is to suffer silently.

I wish no harm on anyone, but those whose harmful ways will not stop without the same harm.

It's time we kill this cancerous system, before it kills us and everything left of gaia. Rise from our immaturity and take back our autonomy!

[Image: 2010-10-04-lost-my-appetite.jpg]
02-06-2012 10:42 AM
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Sociopath Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(02-06-2012 09:37 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  
(02-06-2012 05:21 AM)Sociopath Wrote:  "Anarchy" comes from the Greek word "An" meaning "Without" and "Archos" meaning "leader."
Anarchy means to be without a leader. That's all Anarchy is. Anything else you decide to attach to its meaning is nothing more than a personal idealized opinion. So no, Anarchy is not against civilization.

Your argument of 'agriculture WILL lead to money and rulers and oppression' is just a classic example of a Slippery Slope . It is possible to have Anarchy with civilization and mutual co-operation in with power manifests itself in the individual or everyone and not a single entity, nor a government.

Also, primitvism is not racist. Its just a system where technology is shunned. You're saying its racist is clearly a Strawman .

And I reject the notion of living in hunter-gatherer societies. Aside from the fact that hunting for meat is speciesist, it seems authoritarian to exert power over another (as Anarchy is strictly non-hierarchial, and assuming the role to control another's fate contrasts with Anarchism as it implies you are a leader over another being who will control them. "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."), and can't possibly provide for EVERYONE in the world.

What's so bad about farming, anyway? We get food, we feed people, everyone's happy. While I may agree there are some harmful agents, we can farm without them just fine, and it is a system I strongly endorse. Simple. We farm without using harmful chemicals and other related shit, and we eat the crops. Besides, the plants and trees in the world can't provide for everyone if we repeal farming; they'll all just starve to death.

Firstly, primitivism is a racist term, coined by Europeans withdrawalists, and Wanderlogs to describe indigenous peoples. Indigenous people are not "primitive", they are advanced and intelligent, who have a sustainable way of living.

Meat is not spieciest, what the fuck are you talking about? It is impossible to not eat other lifeforms. That is the natural cycle of life. We eat animals, animals eat plants, plants protect the soil, the soil eats us all.
We NEED meat. Are bodies run on animal fats and proteins.

I don't believe if we had revolution to sustainable living, that it's be hunter- gatherer, but we'd have to live on sustenance permaculture, and polycultures. We could have anarchist communes with farming, but there will always be a "leader" and positions of hierarchy and order within these communities. But no, you wold not have civilization with anarchy, civilization is centralized government and economy.

I'm not against farming, it's agriculture. Agriculture is the most destructive thing you can do to the environment. It nukes topsoil, drains rivers, leads to city states, that require the importation of resources, which means imperialism. That is not a slippery slope, that is reality.

Polycultural , sustenance, permaculture farming is the only way to go because it works on relationships based in nature, not simply to grow mono crops, and to grow humans.

Quote:We don't need meat for survival. As Ayliana has helped point out, we currently produce enough food to feed the entire world without meat.

We NEED meat for health, and eating plant based diets will fail our health and lead to disease. We do have enough food to feed the world, but due to the economic reasonings of civilization we cannot disperse it equally.

Quote:True hunter-gatherer societies died out long before civilization, and they did so for a reason

Not true, civilization killed most of the hunter-gatherer societies. True hunter-gatherer societies did not die out long before civilization:
These are ones currently struggling for existence today.
Batek
Bushmen
Cimba people
Cro-Magnon
Hadza people
Indigenous Australians
Inuit
Man of Flores
Mbuti
Neanderthals
Nukak-Makú
Pirahã
Pygmies
Sentinelese
Spinifex People
Yupik

Quote:Not necessarily. Sustainable agriculture exists, it was practiced by the Native Americans for hundreds of years before European settlers came along.

Yeah sustainable, AGRICULTURE, not civilization. And actually, native americans had civilizations and they disappeared too. Native Americans lived with the land for a long time, and knew who to grow it based on relationships found in nature, plus they weren't mainly farmers. They were part-time, farmers, foragers, and hunters.

Quote:Meat is not spieciest, what the fuck are you talking about? It is impossible to not eat other lifeforms. That is the natural cycle of life. We eat animals, animals eat plants, plants protect the soil, the soil eats us all.
We NEED meat. Are bodies run on animal fats and proteins.
Please explain to me how all those vegetarians, fruititarians, liquiditarians etc. are all living perfectly healthy lives and that they happen to live longer then meat-consumers? As long as the animal dies due to natural causes then I believe its OK to eat it, but for fuck's dsakes, don't run around slaughtering them with bows&arrows (but I suppose bows and arrows must be "advanced technology" and dooesn't apply to you, hm? Fine, we'll use rocks instead.)

Quote:That is the natural cycle of life.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adnature.html

Quote:the soil eats us all.
That's some very terrible poetry...

Quote:and eating plant based diets will fail our health and lead to disease.
Such as...? (Unless you count being healthy on a vegetarian diet as a "disease.") We can get all our proteins and fats from non-meat products.

Quote:I'm not against farming, it's agriculture. Agriculture is the most destructive thing you can do to the environment. It nukes topsoil, drains rivers, leads to city states, that require the importation of resources, which means imperialism. That is not a slippery slope, that is reality.
That is a slippery slope because it does not inevitably lead to it. Much in the sense that I commit a crime at a young age it will not make me grow up to become a warlord and thus lose all sense to productivity and become a mass murderer. This isn't Fable. We can farm without hurting the soil, use resources at a fixed rate, keep rivers clean as a result of technological advancement, and prevent city-states.

Quote:but there will always be a "leader" and positions of hierarchy and order within these communities.
There doesn't have to be. And even if there are power-hungry fucks in the world, anybody in an Anarchist commune can just pull out a gun on them if they tried any shit. If you have vast resources at your disposal already, that virtually negates the need to be control or attain more.

Quote:civilization is centralized government and economy.
Civilization:

The most advanced stage of human social development and organization.
The process by which a society or place reaches this stage.

Quote:Firstly, primitivism is a racist term, coined by Europeans withdrawalists, and Wanderlogs to describe indigenous peoples. Indigenous people are not "primitive", they are advanced and intelligent, who have a sustainable way of living.
White people can't be primitivists?

Hidden stuff:
TRIGGER WARNING: THIS TRIGGER WARNING CONTAINS TRIGGER WARNINGS!

Dear Tumblrites: Despite your wrongly self-diagnosed PTSD, no line of scientific evidence suggests people can be triggered over the internet. Triggering works through the senses (i.e. smell, taste, touch, vision, hearing.) but it goes through real time; if you're not experiencing it in real life as it's ACTUALLY HAPPENING in your ACTUAL life, you CANNOT be triggered. The only exception to this is if you have a seizure, but then again, that's triggered by epilepsy (i.e. rapidly-changing flashing lights) NOT PTSD. Remembering a bad incident is NOT the same thing as having a flashback. When you remember, you think; when you flashback, you feel.

#HashTagsAreForIdiots

[Image: violator_blackbg_110x32.gif]
Max Stirnir Wrote:"In the time of spirits thoughts grew till they overtopped my head, whose offspring they yet were; they hovered about me and convulsed me like fever-phantasies -- an awful power. The thoughts had become corporeal on their own account, were ghosts, e. g. God, Emperor, Pope, Fatherland, etc. If I destroy their corporeity, then I take them back into mine, and say: "I alone am corporeal." And now I take the world as what it is to me, as mine, as my property; I refer all to myself." The Ego and Its Own, pg. 15
Charles Manson Wrote:“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”
HeartofShadows Wrote:"Life is nothing more than a druggie trying to get their quick fix of happiness while dealing with the harsh withdrawal of reality"
Osip Mandelstam Wrote:"I divide all of world literature into authorized and unauthorized works. The former are all trash; the latter--stolen air. I want to spit in the face of every writer who first obtains permission and then writes." The Fourth Prose, 1930.
Lukas Foss Wrote:That is why the analogy of stealing does not work. With a thief, we want to know how much money he stole, and from whom. With the artist it is not how much he took and from whom, but what he did with it.
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02-06-2012 10:53 AM
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Sociopath Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(02-06-2012 10:42 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  
Quote:We don't need meat, with a good meat free diet we're actually healthier.

Sigh,

Watch on YouTube

Why do I even bother? Im bout to join the occupy movements. Theres no time left, seriously guys.

The European economy is collapsing, 99 percent of forests are gone, 3/4 of the world is starving, nigeria is revolting, and the ocean is too acidic for plankton.

Read Deep Green Resistance.

Read the comments on that youtube video's page. This lady is a quack.

Hidden stuff:
TRIGGER WARNING: THIS TRIGGER WARNING CONTAINS TRIGGER WARNINGS!

Dear Tumblrites: Despite your wrongly self-diagnosed PTSD, no line of scientific evidence suggests people can be triggered over the internet. Triggering works through the senses (i.e. smell, taste, touch, vision, hearing.) but it goes through real time; if you're not experiencing it in real life as it's ACTUALLY HAPPENING in your ACTUAL life, you CANNOT be triggered. The only exception to this is if you have a seizure, but then again, that's triggered by epilepsy (i.e. rapidly-changing flashing lights) NOT PTSD. Remembering a bad incident is NOT the same thing as having a flashback. When you remember, you think; when you flashback, you feel.

#HashTagsAreForIdiots

[Image: violator_blackbg_110x32.gif]
Max Stirnir Wrote:"In the time of spirits thoughts grew till they overtopped my head, whose offspring they yet were; they hovered about me and convulsed me like fever-phantasies -- an awful power. The thoughts had become corporeal on their own account, were ghosts, e. g. God, Emperor, Pope, Fatherland, etc. If I destroy their corporeity, then I take them back into mine, and say: "I alone am corporeal." And now I take the world as what it is to me, as mine, as my property; I refer all to myself." The Ego and Its Own, pg. 15
Charles Manson Wrote:“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”
HeartofShadows Wrote:"Life is nothing more than a druggie trying to get their quick fix of happiness while dealing with the harsh withdrawal of reality"
Osip Mandelstam Wrote:"I divide all of world literature into authorized and unauthorized works. The former are all trash; the latter--stolen air. I want to spit in the face of every writer who first obtains permission and then writes." The Fourth Prose, 1930.
Lukas Foss Wrote:That is why the analogy of stealing does not work. With a thief, we want to know how much money he stole, and from whom. With the artist it is not how much he took and from whom, but what he did with it.
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02-06-2012 10:55 AM
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Aya Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

It's a sad day in SS history when TA and I are in agreement with something.
02-06-2012 11:59 AM
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Post: #47
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(02-06-2012 11:59 AM)Aya Wrote:  It's a sad day in SS history when TA and I are in agreement with something.

[Image: shocked_face.jpg?w=300&h=300]

but yeah shotgun doing what shogun does.

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02-06-2012 12:14 PM
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SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

Quote:Please explain to me how all those vegetarians, fruititarians, liquiditarians etc. are all living perfectly healthy lives and that they happen to live longer then meat-consumers? As long as the animal dies due to natural causes then I believe its OK to eat it, but for fuck's dsakes, don't run around slaughtering them with bows&arrows (but I suppose bows and arrows must be "advanced technology" and dooesn't apply to you, hm? Fine, we'll use rocks instead.)
- sociopath

Please give me evidence that meat consumers live less longer and less healthier lives. Because I don't see any evidence. It'll be hard to find any thing on the internet worthwhile, since all the newspapers are vegancentric.

Mbuti hunters can tear animals alive with their bare fucking hands.

Watch the video I posted for Stadium, and also you should watch this documentary Fat-Head it pretty much explains all the bullshit we've been fed about fats and protein leading to heart disease.



Watch on YouTube

Quote:Read the comments on that youtube video's page. This lady is a quack.

I read them, yet she's still right. I read her book Vegetarian Myth also. She's pretty right about everything. The comments are from a bunch of veganfags who are starving saturated fats which makes them act like morons.

I started eating all meat/dairy diet and my health has improved greatly. Meaning I don't have IBS anymore.

Quote:That is a slippery slope because it does not inevitably lead to it. Much in the sense that I commit a crime at a young age it will not make me grow up to become a warlord and thus lose all sense to productivity and become a mass murderer. This isn't Fable. We can farm without hurting the soil, use resources at a fixed rate, keep rivers clean as a result of technological advancement, and prevent city-states.

Lol, you can't keep rivers clean as a result of technological progress. Socio, I thought you were an anarchist, not a liberal.

We need to consume foods and plant foods that build topsoil, restore perennial polycultures, and the biotic community. I said I'm against agriculture, not horticulture and pastoralism.

I know there are ways to do this, but on a mass level it can not work for everybody, unless we control our birth rates.

This actually adds to my argument, you seem to be against civilization now?

Quote:http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adnature.html

What's with this fallacy shit? It is the NATURAL CYCLE of life. It's called an ECO-SYSTEM. I'm not selling you nature. We are talking about nature. DUHHH!

Quote:That's some very terrible poetry..

Poetry, pa-ha. More like actual reality. I find it actually very beautiful.

Quote:Such as...? (Unless you count being healthy on a vegetarian diet as a "disease.") We can get all our proteins and fats from non-meat products.

It kills children: Read the cases

agricultural foods bad for health

Quote:There doesn't have to be. And even if there are power-hungry fucks in the world, anybody in an Anarchist commune can just pull out a gun on them if they tried any shit. If you have vast resources at your disposal already, that virtually negates the need to be control or attain more.

There does have to be. We need leadership, and consensual authority to maintain order. That doesn't mean centralized government, or some shit. But in an organized community there needs to be a system of that is equal and there will always be positions and hierarchy. Like some people might be better at other things, or know more. And there will need to be organization and roles to rotate work.

"vast resources at the disposal" see that's the problem, you are thinking like a instrumentalist, capitalistic, anthropocentric, liberal. Agriculture, only grows humans, which it is undesirable. The natural world, is a living thing, and is not a "resources".

This in itself is a hierarchy. How can we live in harmony with each other, if we can't maintain harmony in with the real creatures of the real world, which we depend on?

Quote:Civilization: http://http://www.endgamethebook.org/Exc...zation.htm

The most advanced stage of human social development and organization.
The process by which a society or place reaches this stage.

"Can you define "civilization"?

I don't think it's necessary or even helpful to make an airtight definition. I follow William Kötke in using "civilization" interchangeably with "empire." I define it loosely as a self-reinforcing societal pattern of depletion of the land, accumulation of wealth, conquest, repression, central control, and insulation and disconnection from life, with all of these habits allied to mental, cultural, and physical artifacts." - ran Prieur

Quote:White people can't be primitivists?

I never said that. I just said that the term, is quite immature, and biased, speaking for the how and who it was coined by.

To be an anarchist, is to suffer greatly. To be a black woman is to suffer secretly. To be the earth, is to suffer silently.

I wish no harm on anyone, but those whose harmful ways will not stop without the same harm.

It's time we kill this cancerous system, before it kills us and everything left of gaia. Rise from our immaturity and take back our autonomy!

[Image: 2010-10-04-lost-my-appetite.jpg]
02-06-2012 12:35 PM
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Miller0700 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(02-06-2012 12:35 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  I know there are ways to do this, but on a mass level it can not work for everybody, unless we control our birth rates.

Just like anarchism?

Previously known as Derchin.
02-06-2012 12:41 PM
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The Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

True anarchists have nothing against government, they just don't like hierarchy because that's where corruption happens.

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02-06-2012 12:45 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

"There are fat soluble nutrients that you cannot get from plants... Vitamin A, vitamin D, vitamin K2, vitamin E.... They don't exist in plants."

"Foods that consist of one or more of these nutrients: Carrots, sweet potatoes, kale, pumpkin, cantaloupe, peaches, apricots, papayas, mangos, mushrooms, broccoli, peas, spinach, grapefruit, eggs and milk (if you're a vegetarian. not vegan), avocados, chestnuts, pecans, berries, almonds, sunflower seeds, kiwi, grapes, tomatoes, cashews... Look. It. Up."

Right there the video loses it's credibility.

"All Animals are equal, But some are more equal than others."
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2012 12:48 PM by Sapphire Flames.)
02-06-2012 12:47 PM
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Stadium Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

I was a vegan for a year and was much healthier, got all my vitamins and nutrients and such. And this is veganism, not vegetarianism.
Eating meat, especially the kind we eat today, with hormones and whatnot, is actually pretty unhealthy.

No, this is Patrick.
02-06-2012 12:52 PM
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The Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

Wait, what the hell are we talking about, anarchy or vegetarianism?

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02-06-2012 01:05 PM
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Miller0700 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(02-06-2012 01:05 PM)The Wrote:  Wait, what the hell are we talking about, anarchy or vegetarianism?

Anarchitarianism.

Previously known as Derchin.
02-06-2012 01:37 PM
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The Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

Thanks derchin

I know this one guy who doesn't eat meat because it creates a shitload of carbon which causes global warming. I forget which part of making meat does that. He doesn't ride airplanes either for the same reason.

I found an article about it here
http://airfare.michaelbluejay.com/dontfly.html

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02-06-2012 01:48 PM
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Aya Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

k, so my iphone crapped out on me half way through writing my response. Yeah, apparently if you navigate away from an open BB text box to a new tab too long it deletes everything and sets it back to what was originally in it (shotgun's massive fucking quote). So I've typed this out in Libre Office Writer. Go Linux! If this isn't posted with bootleg wifi I'll post it tomorrow before I start work. Personally refuting the steaming pile of horse shit known as Shotgun's thought process is not how I want to spend my Sunday night, but I'll be damned if she gets away with it.

Disclaimer: This is an all out quote war. May be tl;dr for some. You've been warned

….............

Quote:We NEED meat. Are[sic] bodies run on animal fats and protiens

No they don't. Not exlusively from animal resources anyway. An individual can get all the protien, fat calcium, and iron they need from a balanced vegetarian diet. Sources of protein include soy, potatos, nuts, legumes and beans. Calcium can be found in soy milk, rice milk, brocolli, figs, mollasses, dark leafy greens such as spinich, collards and broccoli rab. Iron needs can be met again with dark leafy greens, grapes, raisins and most of the breads you find in the supermarket are artificially refined with iron. You do not need an external source of fat. At all. Your body is more than capable of making its own. What do you think happends to excess carbs if you don't burn them off? They're stored as fat. But if you insist on having it in your diet, oils derived from olives, canola, peanut and almonds will fit your daily needs.

Quote:I'm not against farming. It's agriculture

Bitch they're the same thing. Look up the definitions in the dictionary. You can not be against one without being against the other.

From The Free Dictionary
agriculture
Noun
The science, art, and business of cultivating soil, producing crops and raising livestock; farming.

Quote:Polycultural, sustenance, permaculture farming is the only way to go

Translation: An isolationist dark age. Where have we seen that before? Oh yeah, Europe for almost a thousands years. Yeah shotgun that's really the way humanity should go.

Quote:We NEED meat for health

No we don't. Read above.

Quote:and eating plant based diets will fail our health and lead to disease

No it won't. As I've already established in another one of your threads, meat, not vegtable consumption is a leading contributor to heart disease, hypertension and diabetes. It also increases your chances of obesity which itself is linked to other conditions as varied as impotence, renal failure and alzheimers. There's only one other lifestyle habit that can cause so much damage to a persons health, and that's cigarette smoking.

Quote:Not true, civilization killed most of the hunter-gather societies. True hunter-gatherer societies did not die out long before civilization:
These are the ones currently struggling for existance today:

This is what makes my demented inner troll dance in glee. Lets take a look at this list shall we?

Batek – Legit

Bushmen – Majority of bushmen have settled into agricultural patterns. The rest are nomadic cattle ranchers

Cimba People – Live in desert, with limited access to civilization. Not in danger

Cro Magnon – This is what makes me want to slap you. Cro Magnon's are the ancestors of modern europeans. Not only did they live over 30,000 years ago, but they didn't even die out, they became modern humans. And the're doing quite well.

Inuit – Located in arctic, away from most civilization.

Hadza People – Legit. Although most have settled into agriculture.

Indiginous Australians – Legit

Inuit – Located in Arctic, away from most civilization. Not in danger.

Man of Flores – i.e. Homo fucking florensis! Really shotgun?! Homo florensis?! Not only was homo florensis not human but he died out 15-12000 years ago, thousands of years before the advent of agriculture and civilization. God how I hate you.

Mbuti – see below @ pygmies.

Neanderthals – rage.jpg Neanderthals went extint almost 30000 years ago, long before agriculuture and civilization.

Nukak-maku – Legit

Piraha – Their lack of numbers have nothing to do with the encroachment of civilization but with the fact that they ignore the most basic instincts of survival, such as storing & preserving food, as well as tool creation when necessary. Even among hunter gatherer societies, this is extreme behavior.

Pygmies – First off you want to bitch about racism? Go to Africa and call them that. They’ll drive a spear through your skull. Second, like the bushmen these people are village dwellers or nomadic cattle ranchers.

Sentinelese – Fiercly isolationist. Outsiders to this day can't even get near them. Indian officials actually had to guess at their population size when conducting the 2001 census.

Spiniflex People – One of the few Indigenous Australian groups that has not only maintained its lifestyle in the presence of western civilization but they have won collective rights over their territory. They're not suffering.

Yupik – See Inuit. 24000 strong. Clearly not suffering.

So, lets recap shall we? Out of the 16 'native peoples' you listed 3 have been extinct for thousands of years, 7 are largely unaffected by civilization thanks to either geography or culture, and at least two have converted to agriculture. That leaves only 4 of 16 tribes (25% of your list) That have been truly damaged by civilization. And while they're suffering is real and their human rights need to be established and protected, this list hardly proves your point.

Especially with Cro Magnon, Homo Florensis and Neanderthals on it. No one is that stupid. No one. You knew I was going to go through this list with a fine tooth comb why would you even put those three on your list? Even if you didn't know about the other tribes you had to know that these three groups were not only pre-agriculture, but two of them weren't even human. Seriously, you want to talk about “herp-derp primitivism is a racist term”? Placing Neanderthal and H.Florensis on this list implies that they're either the same as these indiginous tribes, or that the tribes themselves are subhuman. Either way, it's racist as fuck. And I want to know right now what half backed angelfire website you pulled this from because I'm want to tear into that person as well.

Seriously shotgun I know at this point you've probably stopped reading but for once in your fucking life use your head and do some research before you post something. 'Cause you really should be ashamed of yourself.

At this point I'm done. I'm not even going to get into the second comment. Because it's not going to matter. Nothing I say or do is going to convince you to stop being such a fucking idiot regarding this issue. You're an ignorant, hypocritical douche, who's so obsessed with being mad at the world that you can't even express a coherent logical thought. And honestly, I feel sorry for you.
02-06-2012 02:16 PM
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SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(02-06-2012 12:47 PM)Sapphire Flames Wrote:  "There are fat soluble nutrients that you cannot get from plants... Vitamin A, vitamin D, vitamin K2, vitamin E.... They don't exist in plants."

"Foods that consist of one or more of these nutrients: Carrots, sweet potatoes, kale, pumpkin, cantaloupe, peaches, apricots, papayas, mangos, mushrooms, broccoli, peas, spinach, grapefruit, eggs and milk (if you're a vegetarian. not vegan), avocados, chestnuts, pecans, berries, almonds, sunflower seeds, kiwi, grapes, tomatoes, cashews... Look. It. Up."

Right there the video loses it's credibility.

No it doesn't. Just because they contain those nutrients doesn't mean we can absorb them.

Our bodies need saturated fats, and proteins to absorb nutrients. Without amino acids we can't get the nutrients.

All listed above have like no fat, Except eggs and milk.

To be an anarchist, is to suffer greatly. To be a black woman is to suffer secretly. To be the earth, is to suffer silently.

I wish no harm on anyone, but those whose harmful ways will not stop without the same harm.

It's time we kill this cancerous system, before it kills us and everything left of gaia. Rise from our immaturity and take back our autonomy!

[Image: 2010-10-04-lost-my-appetite.jpg]
02-06-2012 02:58 PM
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Stadium Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

Lol shotgun you realize there are vegans living healthier than you are RIGHT NOW??

And why do you guys get so personal in your arguments? "I feel sorry for you" Come on it's her opinions, we're all entitled to our own.

No, this is Patrick.
02-06-2012 03:02 PM
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SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(02-06-2012 02:16 PM)Aya Wrote:  k, so my iphone crapped out on me half way through writing my response. Yeah, apparently if you navigate away from an open BB text box to a new tab too long it deletes everything and sets it back to what was originally in it (shotgun's massive fucking quote). So I've typed this out in Libre Office Writer. Go Linux! If this isn't posted with bootleg wifi I'll post it tomorrow before I start work. Personally refuting the steaming pile of horse shit known as Shotgun's thought process is not how I want to spend my Sunday night, but I'll be damned if she gets away with it.

Disclaimer: This is an all out quote war. May be tl;dr for some. You've been warned

….............

Quote:We NEED meat. Are[sic] bodies run on animal fats and protiens

No they don't. Not exlusively from animal resources anyway. An individual can get all the protien, fat calcium, and iron they need from a balanced vegetarian diet. Sources of protein include soy, potatos, nuts, legumes and beans. Calcium can be found in soy milk, rice milk, brocolli, figs, mollasses, dark leafy greens such as spinich, collards and broccoli rab. Iron needs can be met again with dark leafy greens, grapes, raisins and most of the breads you find in the supermarket are artificially refined with iron. You do not need an external source of fat. At all. Your body is more than capable of making its own. What do you think happends to excess carbs if you don't burn them off? They're stored as fat. But if you insist on having it in your diet, oils derived from olives, canola, peanut and almonds will fit your daily needs.

Quote:I'm not against farming. It's agriculture

Bitch they're the same thing. Look up the definitions in the dictionary. You can not be against one without being against the other.

From The Free Dictionary
agriculture
Noun
The science, art, and business of cultivating soil, producing crops and raising livestock; farming.

Quote:Polycultural, sustenance, permaculture farming is the only way to go

Translation: An isolationist dark age. Where have we seen that before? Oh yeah, Europe for almost a thousands years. Yeah shotgun that's really the way humanity should go.

Quote:We NEED meat for health

No we don't. Read above.

Quote:and eating plant based diets will fail our health and lead to disease

No it won't. As I've already established in another one of your threads, meat, not vegtable consumption is a leading contributor to heart disease, hypertension and diabetes. It also increases your chances of obesity which itself is linked to other conditions as varied as impotence, renal failure and alzheimers. There's only one other lifestyle habit that can cause so much damage to a persons health, and that's cigarette smoking.

Quote:Not true, civilization killed most of the hunter-gather societies. True hunter-gatherer societies did not die out long before civilization:
These are the ones currently struggling for existance today:

This is what makes my demented inner troll dance in glee. Lets take a look at this list shall we?

Batek – Legit

Bushmen – Majority of bushmen have settled into agricultural patterns. The rest are nomadic cattle ranchers

Cimba People – Live in desert, with limited access to civilization. Not in danger

Cro Magnon – This is what makes me want to slap you. Cro Magnon's are the ancestors of modern europeans. Not only did they live over 30,000 years ago, but they didn't even die out, they became modern humans. And the're doing quite well.

Inuit – Located in arctic, away from most civilization.

Hadza People – Legit. Although most have settled into agriculture.

Indiginous Australians – Legit

Inuit – Located in Arctic, away from most civilization. Not in danger.

Man of Flores – i.e. Homo fucking florensis! Really shotgun?! Homo florensis?! Not only was homo florensis not human but he died out 15-12000 years ago, thousands of years before the advent of agriculture and civilization. God how I hate you.

Mbuti – see below @ pygmies.

Neanderthals – rage.jpg Neanderthals went extint almost 30000 years ago, long before agriculuture and civilization.

Nukak-maku – Legit

Piraha – Their lack of numbers have nothing to do with the encroachment of civilization but with the fact that they ignore the most basic instincts of survival, such as storing & preserving food, as well as tool creation when necessary. Even among hunter gatherer societies, this is extreme behavior.

Pygmies – First off you want to bitch about racism? Go to Africa and call them that. They’ll drive a spear through your skull. Second, like the bushmen these people are village dwellers or nomadic cattle ranchers.

Sentinelese – Fiercly isolationist. Outsiders to this day can't even get near them. Indian officials actually had to guess at their population size when conducting the 2001 census.

Spiniflex People – One of the few Indigenous Australian groups that has not only maintained its lifestyle in the presence of western civilization but they have won collective rights over their territory. They're not suffering.

Yupik – See Inuit. 24000 strong. Clearly not suffering.

So, lets recap shall we? Out of the 16 'native peoples' you listed 3 have been extinct for thousands of years, 7 are largely unaffected by civilization thanks to either geography or culture, and at least two have converted to agriculture. That leaves only 4 of 16 tribes (25% of your list) That have been truly damaged by civilization. And while they're suffering is real and their human rights need to be established and protected, this list hardly proves your point.

Especially with Cro Magnon, Homo Florensis and Neanderthals on it. No one is that stupid. No one. You knew I was going to go through this list with a fine tooth comb why would you even put those three on your list? Even if you didn't know about the other tribes you had to know that these three groups were not only pre-agriculture, but two of them weren't even human. Seriously, you want to talk about “herp-derp primitivism is a racist term”? Placing Neanderthal and H.Florensis on this list implies that they're either the same as these indiginous tribes, or that the tribes themselves are subhuman. Either way, it's racist as fuck. And I want to know right now what half backed angelfire website you pulled this from because I'm want to tear into that person as well.

Seriously shotgun I know at this point you've probably stopped reading but for once in your fucking life use your head and do some research before you post something. 'Cause you really should be ashamed of yourself.

At this point I'm done. I'm not even going to get into the second comment. Because it's not going to matter. Nothing I say or do is going to convince you to stop being such a fucking idiot regarding this issue. You're an ignorant, hypocritical douche, who's so obsessed with being mad at the world that you can't even express a coherent logical thought. And honestly, I feel sorry for you.

[Image: TLDR.jpg]

I'll go to bed instead, but it's hilarious to see you put in the effort, opened up a microsoft doc, to probably say something out-of-context and wrong on the internet.

LMAO!
[/quote]

To be an anarchist, is to suffer greatly. To be a black woman is to suffer secretly. To be the earth, is to suffer silently.

I wish no harm on anyone, but those whose harmful ways will not stop without the same harm.

It's time we kill this cancerous system, before it kills us and everything left of gaia. Rise from our immaturity and take back our autonomy!

[Image: 2010-10-04-lost-my-appetite.jpg]
02-06-2012 03:05 PM
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Aya Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

^ it wasn't a microsoft doc it was an odt. Once again you fail.
02-06-2012 03:18 PM
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