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Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)
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SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Offline
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Post: #1
Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

I'm bored. Debate me.

I'm an all encompassing anarchist who is definitely against civilization.

To be an anarchist, is to suffer greatly. To be a black woman is to suffer secretly. To be the earth, is to suffer silently.

I wish no harm on anyone, but those whose harmful ways will not stop without the same harm.

It's time we kill this cancerous system, before it kills us and everything left of gaia. Rise from our immaturity and take back our autonomy!

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01-27-2012 10:20 AM
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Stadium Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

I'm not against civilization in general just capitalism.

No, this is Patrick.
01-27-2012 10:22 AM
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SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Offline
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RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(01-27-2012 10:22 AM)StadiumArcadium Wrote:  I'm not against civilization in general just capitalism.

SO you're a communist?

To be an anarchist, is to suffer greatly. To be a black woman is to suffer secretly. To be the earth, is to suffer silently.

I wish no harm on anyone, but those whose harmful ways will not stop without the same harm.

It's time we kill this cancerous system, before it kills us and everything left of gaia. Rise from our immaturity and take back our autonomy!

[Image: 2010-10-04-lost-my-appetite.jpg]
01-27-2012 10:23 AM
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Stadium Offline
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RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

Anarchist. But I don't think anarchism could work in a country like the US.

No, this is Patrick.
01-27-2012 10:27 AM
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SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Offline
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RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(01-27-2012 10:27 AM)StadiumArcadium Wrote:  Anarchist. But I don't think anarchism could work in a country like the US.

Huh

Anarchism is against civilization.

To be an anarchist, is to suffer greatly. To be a black woman is to suffer secretly. To be the earth, is to suffer silently.

I wish no harm on anyone, but those whose harmful ways will not stop without the same harm.

It's time we kill this cancerous system, before it kills us and everything left of gaia. Rise from our immaturity and take back our autonomy!

[Image: 2010-10-04-lost-my-appetite.jpg]
01-27-2012 10:29 AM
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Stadium Offline
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RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

I think it depends on the situation.

No, this is Patrick.
01-27-2012 10:29 AM
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SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(01-27-2012 10:29 AM)StadiumArcadium Wrote:  I think it depends on the situation.

What do you mean?

To be an anarchist, is to suffer greatly. To be a black woman is to suffer secretly. To be the earth, is to suffer silently.

I wish no harm on anyone, but those whose harmful ways will not stop without the same harm.

It's time we kill this cancerous system, before it kills us and everything left of gaia. Rise from our immaturity and take back our autonomy!

[Image: 2010-10-04-lost-my-appetite.jpg]
01-27-2012 10:34 AM
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Stadium Offline
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RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

The country or place anarchy or civilization is being used in.

No, this is Patrick.
01-27-2012 10:35 AM
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HeartofShadows Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

And Shotgunheart is back to her old tricks..
*gets popcorn*

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01-27-2012 10:36 AM
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SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(01-27-2012 10:35 AM)StadiumArcadium Wrote:  The country or place anarchy or civilization is being used in.

So it's okay to have civilization here but not over here.

YOu do realize that you can't have anarchist societies with civilizations continuing?

To be an anarchist, is to suffer greatly. To be a black woman is to suffer secretly. To be the earth, is to suffer silently.

I wish no harm on anyone, but those whose harmful ways will not stop without the same harm.

It's time we kill this cancerous system, before it kills us and everything left of gaia. Rise from our immaturity and take back our autonomy!

[Image: 2010-10-04-lost-my-appetite.jpg]
01-27-2012 10:39 AM
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Stadium Offline
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RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

No I don't realize that. Whether anarchism would work in a certain place depends on a lot of factors. There is no one size fits all

No, this is Patrick.
01-27-2012 10:40 AM
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SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(01-27-2012 10:40 AM)StadiumArcadium Wrote:  No I don't realize that. Whether anarchism would work in a certain place depends on a lot of factors. There is no one size fits all

Please, explain to me what you are talking about. Anarchy is the natural state of humans.

To be an anarchist, is to suffer greatly. To be a black woman is to suffer secretly. To be the earth, is to suffer silently.

I wish no harm on anyone, but those whose harmful ways will not stop without the same harm.

It's time we kill this cancerous system, before it kills us and everything left of gaia. Rise from our immaturity and take back our autonomy!

[Image: 2010-10-04-lost-my-appetite.jpg]
01-27-2012 10:44 AM
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Stadium Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

Please explain to me what the fuck you're talking about. We aren't natural anymore go out into the wilderness and try to survive

No, this is Patrick.
01-27-2012 11:22 AM
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Efs Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

A civilization can exist with anarchy.
No debate I'm right.

(01-10-2012 02:15 PM)Maelstrom Wrote:  Efs, your nihilism is beautiful.
01-27-2012 11:25 AM
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Mælstrom Offline
GIVE ME LEEBERTY, OR GIVE ME DEATH

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Post: #15
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

Which is definitely possible, except that forests are getting smaller and smaller over the years. With a sustainable food source(I.e. rabbits, fish, grouses), knowledge of local edible plants and mushrooms, how to make a shelter, and how to make tools, living in the wilderness can work.

If you're reading this, I killed myself.
01-27-2012 11:30 AM
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Mælstrom Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

I'm against the men who run civilization, but not the rest of it.

If you're reading this, I killed myself.
01-27-2012 11:32 AM
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Stadium Offline
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RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(01-27-2012 11:25 AM)Efs Wrote:  A civilization can exist with anarchy.
No debate I'm right.

This. And shotgun I mean if you try to introduce anarchy to people who have lived their whole lives as, say, communists it wouldn't work.

No, this is Patrick.
01-27-2012 11:36 AM
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SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

Anarchy can't be civilized . Civilization is empire . It starts at agrarian societies that overshoot their land base and then becomes city states that require the importation of resources.

That means you must continuously drawdown from the land around you. Which means, conquest, slavery, warfare, poverty, disease,destruction, genocide, and ultimately collapse.

Agrarian societies get turned into to civilization because of the extra surplus of agriculture, the population expands, which means people arise who want control over the wealth. So these people become the rich and the rulers, and then you have government that arises, a beaucracy to ensure that all the wealth goes to the rich, and the workers keep working and paying taxes. You have religion to keep everybody in check, you have military to invade other lands. You have empire.

What is anarchist about that?

To be an anarchist, is to suffer greatly. To be a black woman is to suffer secretly. To be the earth, is to suffer silently.

I wish no harm on anyone, but those whose harmful ways will not stop without the same harm.

It's time we kill this cancerous system, before it kills us and everything left of gaia. Rise from our immaturity and take back our autonomy!

[Image: 2010-10-04-lost-my-appetite.jpg]
01-27-2012 11:57 AM
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Squittle Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(01-27-2012 11:57 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Anarchy can't be civilized . Civilization is empire .

Your definition of civilization is very curious, but this entire discussion depends on it. You assert that anarchy and civilization are incompatible but it seems others are confused because your definition of civilization is quite different from anything they're used to. Depending on how we define civilization, it may or may not be compatible with anarchism. Specifically, if civilization is inherently hierarchical, if civilization means government or private property (or, to a lesser extent, patriarchy or institutional religion), then yes, it's contradictory to anarchy. But, in any event, a more explicit definition of civilization is necessary to the discussion. If civilization just means empire, of course a statist concept, then, yes, it's incompatible with anarchy in every way.

Because I dig you, like Aussies dig pies, like Born-Agains dig Jesus, like Jesus dug guys.
01-27-2012 12:24 PM
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SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Offline
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RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(01-27-2012 12:24 PM)Squittle Wrote:  
(01-27-2012 11:57 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Anarchy can't be civilized . Civilization is empire .

Your definition of civilization is very curious, but this entire discussion depends on it. You assert that anarchy and civilization are incompatible but it seems others are confused because your definition of civilization is quite different from anything they're used to. Depending on how we define civilization, it may or may not be compatible with anarchism. Specifically, if civilization is inherently hierarchical, if civilization means government or private property (or, to a lesser extent, patriarchy or institutional religion), then yes, it's contradictory to anarchy. But, in any event, a more explicit definition of civilization is necessary to the discussion. If civilization just means empire, of course a statist concept, then, yes, it's incompatible with anarchy in every way.

pretty much. So i guess no one has opposing opinions.

To be an anarchist, is to suffer greatly. To be a black woman is to suffer secretly. To be the earth, is to suffer silently.

I wish no harm on anyone, but those whose harmful ways will not stop without the same harm.

It's time we kill this cancerous system, before it kills us and everything left of gaia. Rise from our immaturity and take back our autonomy!

[Image: 2010-10-04-lost-my-appetite.jpg]
01-27-2012 12:28 PM
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iexist Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

Your a primativist, correct? Well primitivism is impossible, because humans always want a better life and so will try to get better, we'll just make farms and go from their, that being said, I'm not opposed to hunter-gatherers living and doing what they want as long as they don't force others into it and let their kids leave when they get to 15 years of age, or whatever the adult age is. I am a voluntaryist and i wish to live on a co-op farm, but i don't want to force this on others, as i would fight to defend anarcho-caps from being forced into communism, or vise versa, but don't force your views on me.
02-04-2012 04:51 AM
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proud-scene-kid Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

I'm not an anarchist, I just hate most people in this world. I believe capitalism is ok when it's not extreme like in the US.

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02-04-2012 04:59 AM
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Stadium Offline
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RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

I think all of us can agree that capitalism is fucking evil.

No, this is Patrick.
02-04-2012 05:41 AM
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RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

Yep. So is every fucking economic system.

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02-04-2012 05:48 AM
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RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(02-04-2012 05:41 AM)StadiumArcadium Wrote:  I think all of us can agree that human opportunism is fucking evil.

Fixed

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02-04-2012 07:08 AM
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Post: #26
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(01-27-2012 10:20 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  I'm bored. Debate me.

I'm an all encompassing anarchist who is definitely against civilization.

Yay that makes two of us!

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"Unrequited love can be survived in a way that once-requited love cannot."
02-04-2012 07:20 AM
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Levio_Sah Away
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RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

This guy has it right.




[/quote]

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02-04-2012 07:23 AM
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iexist Offline
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RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(02-04-2012 05:41 AM)StadiumArcadium Wrote:  I think all of us can agree that capitalism is fucking evil.

No, you can't attach a moral state to an economic system, only to people in this system. Don't group ever person into one category, i'm not a capitalist, but i don't think its evil, its just not my economic preference, socialism or communism is not a better system than communism its just the way some people want to live their lives.
02-04-2012 07:43 AM
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SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

(02-04-2012 04:51 AM)iexist Wrote:  Your a primativist, correct? Well primitivism is impossible, because humans always want a better life and so will try to get better, we'll just make farms and go from their, that being said, I'm not opposed to hunter-gatherers living and doing what they want as long as they don't force others into it and let their kids leave when they get to 15 years of age, or whatever the adult age is. I am a voluntaryist and i wish to live on a co-op farm, but i don't want to force this on others, as i would fight to defend anarcho-caps from being forced into communism, or vise versa, but don't force your views on me.

No, I'm not a primitivist. Primitivism is a racist idealogical movement created by late 18th century european romanticists.

Civilization requires expansion. That's why traditional hunter-gatherer peoples can not live in harmony with civilization. Because civilizations need to constantly import resources and use the earth up.

You just don't make a farm and go from there. Agriculture leads to civilization. Firstly agriculture is the most destructive thing that humans have done to the earth.It requires you to nuke every living thing in an area, including the topsoil which is the basis of all life. It takes back-breaking labour, humans are not meant to be workers and toilers, it's okay for us to be lazy. It leads to inequality and hierarchy, and it also results in the draining of rivers, deforestation, and eventually salinization.

Plus annual monocrops, are not good for human health or soil, and are to be blamed for many diseases.


proud-scenekid Wrote:I'm not an anarchist, I just hate most people in this world. I believe capitalism is ok when it's not extreme like in the US.

Of course your not against civilization, your a proud product of mainstream media marketing and individualistic liberal absurdity.

Quote:A civilization can exist with anarchy.
No debate I'm right.

If you call businessmen becoming the state, and the only people who have true freedom and power capitalists.

Invidiualist anarchism could exist, but liberalism is stupid and would never work.
So no, you wrong.

To be an anarchist, is to suffer greatly. To be a black woman is to suffer secretly. To be the earth, is to suffer silently.

I wish no harm on anyone, but those whose harmful ways will not stop without the same harm.

It's time we kill this cancerous system, before it kills us and everything left of gaia. Rise from our immaturity and take back our autonomy!

[Image: 2010-10-04-lost-my-appetite.jpg]
02-04-2012 08:52 AM
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Sapphire Flames Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Against INdustrial Capitalism/ Civilization (DEBATE)

I'm not sure where I stand on it.

The reason I believe you hate civilization Shotgun is the fact that it abuses the land around it correct?

"All Animals are equal, But some are more equal than others."
02-04-2012 11:15 AM
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