RIP School Survival Forums
August 2001 - June 2017

The School Survival Forums are permanently retired. If you need help with quitting school, unsupportive parents or anything else, there is a list of resources on the Help Page.

If you want to write about your experiences in school, you can write on our blog.

To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

-SoulRiser

The forums are mostly read-only and are in a maintenance/testing phase, before being permanently archived. Please use this time to get the contact details of people you'd like to keep in touch with. My contact details are here.

Please do not make a mirror copy of the forums in their current state - things will still change, and some people have requested to be able to edit or delete some of their personal info.


Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Religion
Author Message
DUBAS Offline
Pseudonymously Perspicacious Cherub

Posts: 60
Joined: Nov 2011
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
Post: #1
Religion

School is the governments attempt to brainwash and control us all, to believing that we're actually working to become important people and not some homeless person, making us believe that school, a degree and a high GPA are essential to life. I'm pretty sure most of you on these forums agree with those facts, but I have something to add to that idea of a conspiracy.

It is conspiracy. But school isn't the only attempt to brainwash us, there's something else, something we all know as ''religion''. I'm not insulting anyone's thoughts or beliefs by stating what I will, I'm just speaking what I think. You're free to disagree.

As I was saying, to me; religion is another attempt to brainwash us. Think about it. It's making us actually believe there's a magical man we cannot see, one that looks at everything you do from ''above''. And if you behave in certain way that's not in God's list of ''good things'' then you will be punished by being taken to hell. However, the Bible also states we're free. Now we're supposed to be free, but if we do something that God doesn't exactly want us to; where's the freedom?

I agree with the fact that killing a person is evil and such, and it should not be made legal or looked up upon, however, there's other things. It's actually a sin to have a child or have sex before you're married. Should you not be free to choose? Does this magical man really have to decide wether you have a child before or after you get married? I don't think so. So where's the freedom in that?

Also there's the fact that he needs money. He needs a lot of money. Why would such a divine being capable of controlling life itself, nature or anything he wants to need money? I've been told it's actually for the same reason as charities. But can you really trust the church to actually deliver that to where it's actually supposed to go? No, you can't. At least not in my opinion you can't. I've never seen a single person who works in or for a church not flying in first class, or not having expensive meals.

The government controls the church, or uses it for that matter. It's a distraction, a distraction to the fact they're using you like peons. Working towards their evil, unimaginable schemes without even knowing it. By making you believe there is a divine being in charge of life they can easily control you. Politician's powers have been growing so much to the point where they could slowly change the bible to suit their own interests. We wouldn't even notice. They could make a set of rules this ''God'' doesn't want you to do and eventually most of the population would comply. It'll be somewhat mind control. A less technological but more intelligent and indirect way to mind control humanity and society.

They used ''hell'' to scare us and keep us from breaking the rules set by ''God''. But why hell? Humans fear death more than anything mainly because we don't know what comes after it. Religion gives us an idea of what might be waiting for you. The wrong idea, I'd say. Since we are so scared of death making a ''hell'' and a ''heaven'' is an ideal way to control us. You wouldn't do anything bad because you would fear going to hell to be tortured and you would do every good thing you can to go to this so-called heaven and rest in peace. However, if instead of an afterlife of doom they would've said that you would just somehow be taken in for torture people would still do bad things.

Why? Because you can get away with it if other human beings come after you. Because we think alike you can avoid them from finding any clues that would lead to you and, therefore, catching you.

However, death is inevitable. Death is something that nobody can avoid and they tell us there is ''hell'' or ''heaven'' afterwards, if you don't believe in that, can you prove otherwise? Very hard to ask someone who's dead. So we fear what's after death, and therefore, eventually the church will control us, they'll mind control us and we will be just fine with that.

Is there a solution to this madness? I'm probably just thinking about it in a way that's too pessimistic. However, I do believe in conspiracies. Let me know what you think and thanks for the read.

[Image: pjprop.gif]

The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
11-16-2011 05:30 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Stadium Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 2,489
Joined: Nov 2011
Thanks: 1
Given 68 thank(s) in 47 post(s)
Post: #2
RE: Religion

Of course. People buy into religion because they're afraid of death, and because they think there's strength in numbers. When everyone you knew believed in Santa, you did too. Oh and plus because they're brainwashed to believe it since birth. I don't necessarily think that it's a conspiracy, I think most priests and such mean well, but it is fucking stupid. I don't understand how someone can be so naive as to believe there's a man in the sky watching over them their entire lives and not once think, "Wait a minute, maybe intelligent scientists and people like Richard Dawkins are right, and the conservative redneck Christians like John Hagee are wrong?"

No, this is Patrick.
11-16-2011 05:42 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Elfy Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 3,267
Joined: Sep 2008
Thanks: 2
Given 64 thank(s) in 41 post(s)
Post: #3
RE: Religion

Religion is another attempt to brainwash us? Religion is just an idea, In my opinion. Also it just seems like you're having a pop at Christianity rather than religion as a whole, which was around long before le U.S government.

Let people have their religion, let's not discriminate against those who freely chose it as their religion.

RIP SCHOOL-SURVIVAL 04/07/2019
[Image: tumblr_lpjpoqOyQ91qb8nljo1_500.gif]
11-16-2011 05:47 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Stadium Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 2,489
Joined: Nov 2011
Thanks: 1
Given 68 thank(s) in 47 post(s)
Post: #4
RE: Religion

Who actually freely chose it? Most religious (not just christian) people...actually all religious people I know, were brought up that way by their parents.

No, this is Patrick.
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2011 05:49 AM by Stadium.)
11-16-2011 05:49 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DUBAS Offline
Pseudonymously Perspicacious Cherub

Posts: 60
Joined: Nov 2011
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
Post: #5
RE: Religion

Thanks for the reply! And I also find it hard to believe there's an invisible man in the sky watching over us, I just can't see why anyone would believe in that. But I respect the people who do, I just find it hard to believe.

However, I do think it's in a way ''evil''. By burning and killing scientists or people who were about to discover that it might just be fake makes you think it's fake much more. They don't do that now, though because it's illegal. However I can actually say I'm not sure if they would still do it if they could... You never know with religion.

Anyways, thanks for the read and for taking time to reply!

EDIT: Also, thanks Elfy. Christianity is the religion I'm most familiar with since I was born and raised that way. I didn't want to talk about other religions since I'm not so sure about what I'd be talking about. However all, if not most, revolve around the idea of a ''God'' or ''Gods'' that judge you, and an evil and good place after life as well as things you have to do and things you shouldn't do.

Also, I do respect people that believe in religion, but as people believe in religion I also decide not to believe in it and think I should be respected the same way religious people are. Not that I'm saying you have lacked respect for me, though. Also, people are born and raised with a religion, as said by StadiumArcadium and you're taught those beliefs so it's really quite hard to stop believing in such once you've been taught that all your life.

Anyways, thank you all!

[Image: pjprop.gif]

The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2011 05:53 AM by DUBAS.)
11-16-2011 05:49 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Stadium Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 2,489
Joined: Nov 2011
Thanks: 1
Given 68 thank(s) in 47 post(s)
Post: #6
RE: Religion

The worst part is that Christianity teaches its followers that people like us are evil and trying to lead them astray from the 'righteous path'. Fucking sick. If a hardcore Christian were to read this they would denounce it as the devil's work.

No, this is Patrick.
11-16-2011 05:51 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DUBAS Offline
Pseudonymously Perspicacious Cherub

Posts: 60
Joined: Nov 2011
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
Post: #7
RE: Religion

(11-16-2011 05:51 AM)StadiumArcadium Wrote:  The worst part is that Christianity teaches its followers that people like us are evil and trying to lead them astray from the 'righteous path'. Fucking sick. If a hardcore Christian were to read this they would denounce it as the devil's work.

This is exactly what I mean by saying they brainwash people. They'd say this is devil's work. They demand to be respected for being religious but anything against it is ''the devil's work''? Where's the freedom there?

[Image: pjprop.gif]

The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
11-16-2011 05:55 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Elfy Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 3,267
Joined: Sep 2008
Thanks: 2
Given 64 thank(s) in 41 post(s)
Post: #8
RE: Religion

When you say religion is brainwashing people.

You are brainwashing people into believing religion is brainwashing people.

[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSGgRfBgW9ODQ8TUQiA6kY...q78G54xu_M]

RIP SCHOOL-SURVIVAL 04/07/2019
[Image: tumblr_lpjpoqOyQ91qb8nljo1_500.gif]
11-16-2011 06:01 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Stadium Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 2,489
Joined: Nov 2011
Thanks: 1
Given 68 thank(s) in 47 post(s)
Post: #9
RE: Religion

But you could say that about anything. All I'm trying to say is that people are entitled to their own opinions but most people are too stupid to form their own opinions.

No, this is Patrick.
11-16-2011 06:03 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DUBAS Offline
Pseudonymously Perspicacious Cherub

Posts: 60
Joined: Nov 2011
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
Post: #10
RE: Religion

xD. That's sort of true, however I'm not forcing the thought into people's heads, nor am I taking extreme measures to say that religion is fake. I merely spoke what I thought about religion to give people an idea of what I thought as a way to now exchange ideas and thoughts on religion.

If I really wanted to brainwash people I'd find a way to do it via the media or politicians. I wouldn't do that though, I respect everyone's views.

[Image: pjprop.gif]

The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
11-16-2011 06:04 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Jesusaurisrex Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 1,493
Joined: May 2009
Thanks: 0
Given 19 thank(s) in 15 post(s)
Post: #11
RE: Religion

Jews control the churches, government, schools, ect.

Jews invented islam to terrorize america

Jews did 9/11

Jews sank the titanic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmXMA34CeoQ
11-16-2011 06:05 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DUBAS Offline
Pseudonymously Perspicacious Cherub

Posts: 60
Joined: Nov 2011
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
Post: #12
RE: Religion

(11-16-2011 06:05 AM)Jesusaurisrex Wrote:  Jews control the churches, government, schools, ect.

Jews invented islam to terrorize america

Jews did 9/11

Jews sank the titanic

Not sure if you're serious about this or not, but I uhh... Don't really see how any of that is possible. If you were being serious, could you elaborate the idea a bit more?

If not then... Uhh... xD

[Image: pjprop.gif]

The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
11-16-2011 06:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Jesusaurisrex Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 1,493
Joined: May 2009
Thanks: 0
Given 19 thank(s) in 15 post(s)
Post: #13
RE: Religion

(11-16-2011 06:19 AM)DUBAS Wrote:  Not sure if you're serious about this or not

Cant tell if serious or retarded

[Image: 1299134726556.png]

inb4 soul sends me another pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmXMA34CeoQ
11-16-2011 06:22 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DUBAS Offline
Pseudonymously Perspicacious Cherub

Posts: 60
Joined: Nov 2011
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
Post: #14
RE: Religion

Anyways, I chuckled at the image. But yeah, if you're not going to post something that's on topic or serious about the matter, or have nothing to say about it for that matter, I'd refrain from posting. But the image did make me chuckle. Either way, thanks for the replies.

[Image: pjprop.gif]

The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
11-16-2011 06:27 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Jesusaurisrex Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 1,493
Joined: May 2009
Thanks: 0
Given 19 thank(s) in 15 post(s)
Post: #15
RE: Religion

you dont get it
Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all Jewish inventions to steal your money

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmXMA34CeoQ
11-16-2011 06:40 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Stadium Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 2,489
Joined: Nov 2011
Thanks: 1
Given 68 thank(s) in 47 post(s)
Post: #16
RE: Religion

(11-16-2011 06:40 AM)Jesusaurisrex Wrote:  you dont get it
Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all Jewish inventions to steal your money

You just blew my mind with your geniusnesses.

No, this is Patrick.
11-16-2011 07:04 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Levio_Sah Away
^this person is awesome

Posts: 364
Joined: Nov 2011
Thanks: 0
Given 1 thank(s) in 1 post(s)
Post: #17
RE: Religion

(11-16-2011 06:40 AM)Jesusaurisrex Wrote:  you dont get it
Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all Jewish inventions to steal your money

Um... Well, not really. Maybe the first two, but not Judaism.
11-16-2011 07:22 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Miller0700 Offline
Here to save you.

Posts: 3,405
Joined: Oct 2010
Thanks: 64
Given 137 thank(s) in 84 post(s)
Post: #18
RE: Religion

Sums up my point on religion.

Aron-Ra Wrote:When believers argue over any of the many things which contradict their religion, they often challenge us to decide whom we are going to believe? The alleged “word” of God? Or that of Men? As if human inquiry had no chance against the authority they imagine their doctrine to be. But when they say, “men”, they’re talking about science. And when they refer to the “word of God”, they’re talking about myths written about God by men.

Every one of the world’s supposedly “holy” doctrines of any religion describe themselves as being written by men, not gods; men who were “moved by” or inspired by their favorite gods, or perhaps taking dictation from angels, but they were written by lowly imaginative yet imperfect mortals none the less; not by angels, and certainly not by gods.

If there really was one true god, it should be a singular composite of every religion’s gods, an uber-galactic super-genius, and the ultimate entity of the entire cosmos. If a being of that magnitude ever wrote a book, then there would only be one such document; one book of God. It would be dominant everywhere in the world with no predecessors or parallels or alternatives in any language, because mere human authors couldn’t possibly compete with it. And you wouldn’t need faith to believe it, because it would be consistent with all evidence and demonstrably true, revealing profound morality and wisdom far beyond contemporary human capacity. It would invariably inspire a unity of common belief for every reader. If God wrote it, we could expect no less. But what we see instead is the very opposite of that.

Instead of only one religion leading to one ultimate truth, we have many different religions with no common origin, all constantly sharding into ever more deeply-divided denominations, seeking conflicting truths, and each somehow claiming divine guidance despite their ongoing divergence in every direction.

The Jewish Torah, the Christian gospels, the Qur’an of Islam, the Kitab-i-Aqdas of Bahá’u’lláh, the Hindu Vedas, the Avestas of Zarathustra, the Adi-Granth of the Sikhs, the Mahabarata’s Bhagavad-Gita, the Book of Mormon, and the Urantia book are all declared to be the “absolute truth” and the “revealed word” of the “one true” god, and believers of each say the others are deceived. The only logical probability is that they all are –at least to some degree.

None of these have any particular advantage over the others. None of them have any evidentiary support, and none of them are historically verifiable.

Every religion claims to believe as they do because of reason, education, or intelligence given by their god in revelation. But whether they admit it or not, all of them are assuming their preferred conclusions on faith, and this would still be true even if all of their gods exist. Believe as hard as you want to. But convincing yourself however firmly still can’t change the reality of things. Seeing is believing. But seeing isn’t knowing. Believing isn’t knowing. Subjective convictions are meaningless in science, and eyewitness testimony is the least reliable form of evidence.

So why do none of these tens of thousands of head-bobbing, mouth-breathing, glassy-eyed wanna-believers have the presence of mind to ask, “how do you know that?” Well, for all those who never asked the question, here’s the answer; they don’t know that! There’s no way anyone could know these things. They’re making it up as they go along. These sermons are the best possible example of blind speculation; asserted as though it were truth and sold for tithe. If anyone or everyone else would be called liars for claiming such things without any evidentiary basis then why make exceptions for evangelists? For these charlatans are obviously liars too! The clergy are in the same category of questionable credibility as are commissioned salesmen, politicians, and military recruiters.

But in either case, it doesn’t matter how convinced you are; belief does not equal knowledge. The difference is that knowledge can always be tested for accuracy where mere beliefs often can not be. No matter how positively you think you know it, if you can’t show it, then you don’t know it, and you shouldn’t say that you do. Nor would you if you really cared about the truth. Knowledge is demonstrable, measurable. But faith is often a matter of pretending to know what you know you really don't know, and that no one even can know, and which you merely believe -often for no good reason at all.

“Goddidit” explains everything by explaining nothing. Since magic is exempt from all rules of nature or logic, they think that means that anything that seems impossible somehow proves them right.

http://darwinwasright.homestead.com/1stFFoC.html
http://darwinwasright.homestead.com/3rdFFoC.html
http://darwinwasright.homestead.com/4thFFoC.html
http://darwinwasright.homestead.com/14thFFoC.html

Previously known as Derchin.
11-16-2011 08:01 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
LOON_ATTIC Offline
A NERD

Posts: 5,158
Joined: May 2009
Thanks: 9
Given 60 thank(s) in 49 post(s)
Post: #19
RE: Religion

(11-16-2011 05:30 AM)DUBAS Wrote:  But school isn't the only attempt to brainwash us, there's something else, something we all know as ''religion''...

hello me
I still don't think they can just add rules to the bible and everyone will follow them... meh, well it's always been used as an excuse to punish people. It's not like everyone will follow them but it'll let them punish people for it without causing an uproar...

[Image: glorious666.png]
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2011 08:22 AM by LOON_ATTIC.)
11-16-2011 08:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Reptorian Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 1,501
Joined: Oct 2008
Thanks: 2
Given 18 thank(s) in 13 post(s)
Post: #20
RE: Religion

Here we go with the pathetic brainwash argument with no real evidence to support the idea and the fact that people who says they're brainwashed is arguably can be perceived as brainwashed.

Also, to say religion is the fault of the mess that is formed is also a failed argument because it relies on the assumption that religion itself have the expressive ability and coercive ability which it does not show in any way.

Another failed argument is the no god argument only due to the fact that they rely on the assumption that god has to be anthropomorphic made by a certain religion or somewhat similar to religious root when there are 'gods' that are described as to come about force rather than having conscious control over nature.

ZZZ...
11-16-2011 08:55 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
LOON_ATTIC Offline
A NERD

Posts: 5,158
Joined: May 2009
Thanks: 9
Given 60 thank(s) in 49 post(s)
Post: #21
RE: Religion

(11-16-2011 08:55 AM)VisualStyly Wrote:  Here we go with the pathetic brainwash argument with no real evidence to support the idea and the fact that people who says they're brainwashed is arguably can be perceived as brainwashed.

Also, to say religion is the fault of the mess that is formed is also a failed argument because it relies on the assumption that religion itself have the expressive ability and coercive ability which it does not show in any way.

Another failed argument is the no god argument only due to the fact that they rely on the assumption that god has to be anthropomorphic made by a certain religion or somewhat similar to religious root when there are 'gods' that are described as to come about force rather than having conscious control over nature.

gtfo christfag

[Image: glorious666.png]
11-16-2011 08:59 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Reptorian Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 1,501
Joined: Oct 2008
Thanks: 2
Given 18 thank(s) in 13 post(s)
Post: #22
RE: Religion

Assuming my faith when I make no declaration on my faith on this thread. I'm actually a ignostic apatheist which means I don't take theists, agnostics, atheists with regard.

ZZZ...
11-16-2011 09:11 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
LOON_ATTIC Offline
A NERD

Posts: 5,158
Joined: May 2009
Thanks: 9
Given 60 thank(s) in 49 post(s)
Post: #23
RE: Religion

Okay now I'll actually bother to read and reply to your post.
(11-16-2011 08:55 AM)VisualStyly Wrote:  the fact that people who says they're brainwashed is arguably can be perceived as brainwashed.
...How so?

(11-16-2011 08:55 AM)VisualStyly Wrote:  Also, to say religion is the fault of the mess that is formed is also a failed argument because it relies on the assumption that religion itself have the expressive ability and coercive ability which it does not show in any way.
Again, how so? The "coercive ability" could be a bit like peer pressure, plus the whole YOU WILL GO TO HELL thing, and people used to be punished very often only due to religion.
(11-16-2011 08:55 AM)VisualStyly Wrote:  Another failed argument is the no god argument only due to the fact that they rely on the assumption that god has to be anthropomorphic made by a certain religion or somewhat similar to religious root when there are 'gods' that are described as to come about force rather than having conscious control over nature.
huh.I can kind of get where you're going with this... people who make arguments against god assume that "god" has to be anthropomorphic, or human-like, and "gods" should be similar according to atheists but they're different and that doesn't really matter? And that there are "gods" described as not really being conscious but "by chance" or not being able to control everything? (deism)

But then there really isn't an argument to prove the existence of a "god", I mean, so much shit has happened that appears to have a really small chance or whatever, but still. It's like getting pissed because someone says invisible pink unicorns don't exist...

And religion HAS been used as a tool to manipulate the population. Maybe not consciously created for that, but it's been used as one.

[Image: glorious666.png]
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2011 09:29 AM by LOON_ATTIC.)
11-16-2011 09:28 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Stadium Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 2,489
Joined: Nov 2011
Thanks: 1
Given 68 thank(s) in 47 post(s)
Post: #24
RE: Religion

There are so many cases of religion being used as a tool to manipulate people that to refute the fact would just be fucking idiotic.

No, this is Patrick.
11-16-2011 09:30 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Miller0700 Offline
Here to save you.

Posts: 3,405
Joined: Oct 2010
Thanks: 64
Given 137 thank(s) in 84 post(s)
Post: #25
RE: Religion

(11-16-2011 08:55 AM)VisualStyly Wrote:  Here we go with the pathetic brainwash argument with no real evidence to support the idea and the fact that people who says they're brainwashed is arguably can be perceived as brainwashed.

Also, to say religion is the fault of the mess that is formed is also a failed argument because it relies on the assumption that religion itself have the expressive ability and coercive ability which it does not show in any way.

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Jesus_Camp

Previously known as Derchin.
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2011 09:32 AM by Miller0700.)
11-16-2011 09:32 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DUBAS Offline
Pseudonymously Perspicacious Cherub

Posts: 60
Joined: Nov 2011
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
Post: #26
RE: Religion

Sorry Visual but I seem to not get what you're saying when you say church doesn't have the coercive or expressive ability. Ability to what? If you're referring to the power it has then I'll tell you it does actually have much power, and that's not an opinion or thought but a fact. Church still holds power.

Also, can you present evidence that I'm wrong? And don't give me the "but you can't prove it either". I'll give you that both ideologies cannot be proven which is why they're DIFFERENT ideologies. We should try to understand each other's ideas, respect them and learn to agree or disagree. Just because you don't believe in my idea gives you no reason to say it's false or call it pathetic.

Since we do not have evidence to support each of our claims we should learn to respect and accept each other's opinions, not calling them pathetic or "lacking evidence" because your statement also lacks evidence.

The no god argument is also not a failed argument. If you want evidence then let's see the evidence supporting there IS a God. Also, it's not a failed argument. I'm merely stating that it's a scientific impossibility for a being like that to exist and last time I checked it's not a failed argument. Why? Simply because of that. It's a scientific impossibility. But youcan believe what you want, just don't called everyone elses ideas on the matter "failed arguments" when you yourself can't provide proof of your own statement.

If a failed argument is an idea lacking of proof then we both have the so called fail arguments. However, to me a fail argument is when your ideas aren't expressed in a way that people can read, absorb thr content and actually think about but in a way it makes you want to say "screw this". So to me it's more of a subjective matter. Anyways, that's another story. Thanks for replying though!

[Image: pjprop.gif]

The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
11-16-2011 09:43 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Reptorian Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 1,501
Joined: Oct 2008
Thanks: 2
Given 18 thank(s) in 13 post(s)
Post: #27
RE: Religion

(11-16-2011 09:28 AM)Lunatic Wrote:  Okay now I'll actually bother to read and reply to your post.
(11-16-2011 08:55 AM)VisualStyly Wrote:  the fact that people who says they're brainwashed is arguably can be perceived as brainwashed.
...How so?
Because the person is question is unlikely be changed by any pressure forces and is influenced by many factors including influential ideas. That's why the brainwash argument is not valid. Try again.


(11-16-2011 09:28 AM)Lunatic Wrote:  Again, how so? The "coercive ability" could be a bit like peer pressure, plus the whole YOU WILL GO TO HELL thing, and people used to be punished very often only due to religion.

You just proved my point. Note peer pressure is due to by people and not religion itself. Religion itself have no real power over people although it is arguable that people involved into religious organization have powers.

(11-16-2011 09:28 AM)Lunatic Wrote:  It's like getting pissed because someone says invisible pink unicorns don't exist...

And religion HAS been used as a tool to manipulate the population. Maybe not consciously created for that, but it's been used as one.

At least the unicorn hypothesis is valid considering it's matter unless one says it magical, then that where lies the conclusion that it cannot be tested. If there is a invisible dragon on your closet, one must use a tool to detect the invisible and analyze all of the area to see if there is a invisible dragon, once all checked, the answer is no. Invisible objects still have the matter property that can be observed, but not seen through the naked eye. Science is secular and does not say anything about "god". It simply says that it is untestable and irrational.

As for religion itself, it is more arguable that social factors are influenced to be used as control and the manipulation of the influential source is what created the manipulation of the population.

As for the Jesus camp thing, might as well use Stalin example or some other possible athiest dictator. The same thing can go for people who are religious going out of control.

ZZZ...
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2011 09:54 AM by Reptorian.)
11-16-2011 09:45 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DUBAS Offline
Pseudonymously Perspicacious Cherub

Posts: 60
Joined: Nov 2011
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
Post: #28
RE: Religion

The brainwash argument is a valid as yours. Provide proof that God exists,or that it's not actually as I say it is. Provide me with valid pointa and thoughts. I can't do it and I respect your thoughts about this, but if you can't proof your own theory don't call other's "failed". Because according to your own definition of a fail argument your argument is too, a failed argument.

Try taking a more respectful, open-minded approach at things.

[Image: pjprop.gif]

The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
11-16-2011 09:55 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Reptorian Offline
Fanatic

Posts: 1,501
Joined: Oct 2008
Thanks: 2
Given 18 thank(s) in 13 post(s)
Post: #29
RE: Religion

Until "god" is considered testable, it is best to make no conclusion due to the lack of evidence. Lack of evidence to suggest it existence is not always the evidence of non-existence of the reference object.

ZZZ...
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2011 10:01 AM by Reptorian.)
11-16-2011 09:57 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DUBAS Offline
Pseudonymously Perspicacious Cherub

Posts: 60
Joined: Nov 2011
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
Post: #30
RE: Religion

If no conclusions should be made, then why is there a God in the first place?

Also the "God doesn't exist argument" is as valid as the "God exists argument". Both should be handled and treated equally.

The only one jumping to conclusions is you by saying we're insulting religion or something because at least I'm not. I'm taking my own approach towards it just like you.

You're talking a lot but saying very little.

[Image: pjprop.gif]

The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
11-16-2011 10:05 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | School Survival | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication