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My Plan to Stimulate the Economy
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thriller222 Offline
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Post: #1
My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

My theory on how we can stimulate the econmomy:

>Tax cuts for the poor and lower middle class. These people make up most of the population, and they need the money to consume and therefore, stimulate the economy.

>Tax hikes for the rich and upper middle class. A tax rate of 60-70% on the top 1% would help start the long process of paying off our debt, and the big businesses would use their money to invest in their business because of the fact that they have less money to invest in business games that dont help the economy, such as speculation. Also, tax hikes will give the government more revenue so that it doesnt have to borrow as much.

>Start necessary government spending. End the wars, shrink the military, and close some of our bases. But in the meantime, start high speed rails, start regulations on the market, socialize health care, and rebuild our infastructure.

>Regulate trade. NAFTA has been a HUGE factor in corporations leaving America, because now that governments off their backs they can now get cheaper labor in Mexico, and other foreign countries.

Well im sort of tired I'll just add more to this list later, so respond and give some advice. Or you can tell what you think would stimulate the economy.
10-04-2011 01:52 PM
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thewake Offline
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Post: #2
RE: My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

I would like to propose a counter plan that, I believe, will successfully achieve the goals of the above plan while not falling into some of the pitfalls of it:

>Cut taxes on everyone. No only for the poor and lower middle class, but for the richest among us as well. Make these tax cuts permanent too, because according to the permanent income hypothesis, "transitory, short-term changes in income have little effect on consumer spending behavior."

>Cut spending across the board if you want to stop the deficit and start paying down on the debt. Of course, the debt is a problem. Maybe not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be, or nearly as imminent of a problem, but better to nip it in the bud now than let it get as bad as Greece. Raising taxes on the rich is not necessarily a great way to get more revenue. See: Laffer curve.

>End all our wars, yes. Shrink military spending. Close down all American bases that aren't on American soil. Great. Also, I'm not against rebuilding our infrastructure. That is a legitimate function of government, however I feel that spending on welfare and warfare generally gets in the way of this function. Cut regulations on the market, make healthcare totally free market, and if it's profitable to have high speed rail let a company take it over.

>Get rid of NAFTA and all our other so-called free trade agreements, not because they are free trade but because they aren't free trade:
Ron Paul Wrote:http://citizen.typepad.com/eyesontrade/2...or-fr.html
If we were interested in free trade, as the pretense is, you could initiate free trade in one small paragraph. This bill is over 1,000 pages, and it is merely a pretext for free trade. At the same time we talk about free trade, we badger China, and that is not free trade. I believe in free trade, but this is not free trade. This is regulated, managed trade for the benefit of special interests. That is why I oppose it.
We need real free trade, it helps the economy and doesn't hurt it. Free trade allows countries to specialize. Going by the logic of protectionism, my family should, instead of buying cheaper goods from the store, make all our goods ourselves. If another country can make a good cheaper than our country can, aren't we, as a whole, benefiting by buying it from them instead of wasting our energies on making the same good at a higher price?
My favorite treatment of protectionism.
A short video that does a good job of explaining my position.

[Image: nAOqYk7.png]

[Image: USVWSwj.png]
10-08-2011 01:53 AM
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thriller222 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

(10-08-2011 01:53 AM)Weswammy Wrote:  I would like to propose a counter plan that, I believe, will successfully achieve the goals of the above plan while not falling into some of the pitfalls of it:

>Cut taxes on everyone. No only for the poor and lower middle class, but for the richest among us as well. Make these tax cuts permanent too, because according to the permanent income hypothesis, "transitory, short-term changes in income have little effect on consumer spending behavior."

>Cut spending across the board if you want to stop the deficit and start paying down on the debt. Of course, the debt is a problem. Maybe not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be, or nearly as imminent of a problem, but better to nip it in the bud now than let it get as bad as Greece. Raising taxes on the rich is not necessarily a great way to get more revenue. See: Laffer curve.

>End all our wars, yes. Shrink military spending. Close down all American bases that aren't on American soil. Great. Also, I'm not against rebuilding our infrastructure. That is a legitimate function of government, however I feel that spending on welfare and warfare generally gets in the way of this function. Cut regulations on the market, make healthcare totally free market, and if it's profitable to have high speed rail let a company take it over.

>Get rid of NAFTA and all our other so-called free trade agreements, not because they are free trade but because they aren't free trade:
Ron Paul Wrote:http://citizen.typepad.com/eyesontrade/2...or-fr.html
If we were interested in free trade, as the pretense is, you could initiate free trade in one small paragraph. This bill is over 1,000 pages, and it is merely a pretext for free trade. At the same time we talk about free trade, we badger China, and that is not free trade. I believe in free trade, but this is not free trade. This is regulated, managed trade for the benefit of special interests. That is why I oppose it.
We need real free trade, it helps the economy and doesn't hurt it. Free trade allows countries to specialize. Going by the logic of protectionism, my family should, instead of buying cheaper goods from the store, make all our goods ourselves. If another country can make a good cheaper than our country can, aren't we, as a whole, benefiting by buying it from them instead of wasting our energies on making the same good at a higher price?
My favorite treatment of protectionism.
A short video that does a good job of explaining my position.

I like a lot of your ideas, but I still have to say that taxing the rich just a little more could stimulate the economy. I dont agree with excessive tax rates like 90-96%, a tax rate that high would actually decrease revenue, but a tax rate of 60-70% would increase revenue by a ton, and big business owners would use the money that they have to increase the quality of their product, and quality of their business.

I dont agree with privatization of healthcare, because I think healthcare is where big companies would screw up big time. Remember, government is held accountable for protecting the people, governments motives can not be for profit. Corporation's motives, however, are always for profit. So having businesses run healthcare would be hellish.

And one last thing about welfare, I dont agree with a huge welfare system, but I do think that welfare is good for people who need to get back on their feet, after that happens they wont need it. I understand that some people do mooch off of welfare, but those people are the tapeworms of society anyway, and you and me both know that tapeworms never go away. We cant make a perfect welfare system, but having a good one would help the economy.
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2011 09:32 AM by thriller222.)
10-08-2011 09:28 AM
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gore goroth Offline
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RE: My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

Even though everyone always blames the rich for everything and everyone always wants to tax the shit out of rich people. Be careful because rich people create jobs.

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10-08-2011 10:16 AM
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Miller0700 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

(10-08-2011 10:16 AM)gore goroth Wrote:  Even though everyone always blames the rich for everything and everyone always wants to tax the shit out of rich people. Be careful because rich people create jobs.



Watch on YouTube

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10-08-2011 11:45 AM
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Jesusaurisrex Offline
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Post: #6
RE: My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

(10-08-2011 10:16 AM)gore goroth Wrote:  Even though everyone always blames the rich for everything and everyone always wants to tax the shit out of rich people. Be careful because rich people create jobs.

[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTg_mkIKRzURuzEH-eAcFm..._k2HqWbNZw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmXMA34CeoQ
10-08-2011 01:08 PM
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thriller222 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

(10-08-2011 10:16 AM)gore goroth Wrote:  Even though everyone always blames the rich for everything and everyone always wants to tax the shit out of rich people. Be careful because rich people create jobs.

Taxing them at 90% would lose revenue and jobs, that would be too much. Taxing them higher then they are taxed now, even if its just an increase of 5%, would increase revenue and increase the employment rate, both in the public, and private sector.

Taxes are a big indicator about how an economy works. They're not the only big indicator, I know there are a lot of other factors, but they represent how fair and balanced a system is. And one thing you may want to know, taxes are lower than ever for the rich, and I dont see a low unemployment rate.

The truth is, the super rich dont need all of their money just to invest in their business. The super rich would not be affected by a higher tax rate, because they have enough money to deal with one. If the rich had a little less money they would instead use it to invest in their business long term, not to invest in risky speculation and moving their business over seas to maximize profit. Remember, speculation is why bubbles form.
10-08-2011 01:31 PM
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Efs Offline
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RE: My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

No tax. No money. No unemployment. No war. No problem!

(01-10-2012 02:15 PM)Maelstrom Wrote:  Efs, your nihilism is beautiful.
10-08-2011 06:32 PM
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gore goroth Offline
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RE: My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

Quote:>Tax hikes for the rich and upper middle class. A tax rate of 60-70% on the top 1% would help start the long process of paying off our debt, and the big businesses would use their money to invest in their business because of the fact that they have less money to invest in business games that dont help the economy, such as speculation. Also, tax hikes will give the government more revenue so that it doesnt have to borrow as much.
We can't pay off that much debt. Even if we have a few cuts on government spending here and there it would never be enough to pay back such a rediculous deficit.
>Start necessary government spending. End the wars, shrink the military, and close some of our bases. But in the meantime, start high speed rails, start regulations on the market, socialize health care, and rebuild our infastructure.
You are in a forum against public schooling which is socialized education. Imagine how much the government could fuck up socialized health care.

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(This post was last modified: 10-09-2011 10:46 AM by gore goroth.)
10-09-2011 10:30 AM
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thriller222 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

(10-09-2011 10:30 AM)gore goroth Wrote:  
Quote:>Tax hikes for the rich and upper middle class. A tax rate of 60-70% on the top 1% would help start the long process of paying off our debt, and the big businesses would use their money to invest in their business because of the fact that they have less money to invest in business games that dont help the economy, such as speculation. Also, tax hikes will give the government more revenue so that it doesnt have to borrow as much.
We can't pay off that much debt. Even if we have a few cuts on government spending here and there it would never be enough to pay back such a rediculous deficit.
>Start necessary government spending. End the wars, shrink the military, and close some of our bases. But in the meantime, start high speed rails, start regulations on the market, socialize health care, and rebuild our infastructure.
You are in a forum against public schooling which is socialized education. Imagine how much the government could fuck up socialized health care.

I'm not against public schooling, I'm against the way our school system is run by the government. I think there should be socialized healthcare because I believe its immoral for a company to make profit off of someones health. And you seem to give the private sector a lot of credit. Believe me, the private sector can fuck up just as bad as the government can.
10-09-2011 12:43 PM
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The Desert Fox Offline
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Post: #11
RE: My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

(10-08-2011 10:16 AM)gore goroth Wrote:  Even though everyone always blames the rich for everything and everyone always wants to tax the shit out of rich people. Be careful because rich people create jobs.

Clicky

Skip to 1:40 for the important part.

Hidden stuff:
(11-27-2011 01:00 PM)psychopath Wrote:  
(11-27-2011 10:52 AM)Efs Wrote:  Our Army is more professional than Amerika. Smile
Except ours isn't allowed to have guns
CrayolaColours Wrote:That post owned. TDF wins post of the year.
Faby Wrote:
krissy Wrote:dessert fox
Mmm, flambéed vulpine.
"There is no enemy, there is no victory, only boys who lost their lives in the sand."
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10-10-2011 12:48 PM
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thriller222 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

(10-10-2011 12:48 PM)The Desert Fox Wrote:  
(10-08-2011 10:16 AM)gore goroth Wrote:  Even though everyone always blames the rich for everything and everyone always wants to tax the shit out of rich people. Be careful because rich people create jobs.

Clicky

Skip to 1:40 for the important part.

Ha you're awesome for posting that, Colbert's the best.
10-10-2011 01:22 PM
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gore goroth Offline
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RE: My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

I don't doubt that our health care system is fucked up. I just don't think more government is the way to fix it. For starters if it wasn't so damn easy to come up with a reason to sue your doctor for a rediculous amount of money imagine how much health care costs would go down.

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10-10-2011 03:13 PM
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Liquid Offline
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Post: #14
RE: My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

(10-04-2011 01:52 PM)thriller222 Wrote:  My theory on how we can stimulate the econmomy:

>Tax cuts for the poor and lower middle class. These people make up most of the population, and they need the money to consume and therefore, stimulate the economy.

Agree


thriller222 Wrote:>Tax hikes for the rich and upper middle class. A tax rate of 60-70% on the top 1% would help start the long process of paying off our debt, and the big businesses would use their money to invest in their business because of the fact that they have less money to invest in business games that dont help the economy, such as speculation. Also, tax hikes will give the government more revenue so that it doesnt have to borrow as much.

Have to disagree. Raising taxes on the rich has historically backfired.

The rich themselves do not benefit most of the economy at all, sometimes they even hurt the economy, however there is a large segment of the middle class that provides special services and relies on the existence of rich for income. That one segment of the middle class doing well is more important than the rich.

Rather than taxing the rich more, personally I think there should be some sort of mandatory spending requirement.


thriller222 Wrote:>Start necessary government spending. End the wars, shrink the military, and close some of our bases. But in the meantime, start high speed rails, start regulations on the market, socialize health care, and rebuild our infrastructure.

Agree.

(But don't get rid of the bases when they close)

Socialized Healthcare can go either way though, most governments set it up in a way that makes it worse than it was in the first place. I agree that it can be done right though and if it's done right it is a very good thing to have.

thriller222 Wrote:>Regulate trade. NAFTA has been a HUGE factor in corporations leaving America, because now that governments off their backs they can now get cheaper labor in Mexico, and other foreign countries.

Agree 100%

//

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10-11-2011 07:43 AM
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thriller222 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

(10-11-2011 07:43 AM)Liquid Wrote:  Sorry for the late reply
My theory on how we can stimulate the econmomy:


Quote:>Tax hikes for the rich and upper middle class. A tax rate of 60-70% on the top 1% would help start the long process of paying off our debt, and the big businesses would use their money to invest in their business because of the fact that they have less money to invest in business games that dont help the economy, such as speculation. Also, tax hikes will give the government more revenue so that it doesnt have to borrow as much.

Have to disagree. Raising taxes on the rich has historically backfired.

Examples?

Quote:The rich themselves do not benefit most of the economy at all, sometimes they even hurt the economy, however there is a large segment of the middle class that provides special services and relies on the existence of rich for income. That one segment of the middle class doing well is more important than the rich.

Well one thing to remember is that the rich also rely on the middle class to make the money for them. The rich dont actually work 1000X harder than the middle class, so why do they need all that money?

Quote:Rather than taxing the rich more, personally I think there should be some sort of mandatory spending requirement.

Why?

Quote:>Start necessary government spending. End the wars, shrink the military, and close some of our bases. But in the meantime, start high speed rails, start regulations on the market, socialize health care, and rebuild our infrastructure.

Agree.

(But don't get rid of the bases when they close)

Socialized Healthcare can go either way though, most governments set it up in a way that makes it worse than it was in the first place. I agree that it can be done right though and if it's done right it is a very good thing to have.[/quote]

Well either way making money off of someones health is immoral. Maybe make it illegal to make healthcare for profit? That would reduce the cost of healthcare for one, so it is still a step in the right direction.


[/quote]
(This post was last modified: 10-31-2011 02:11 PM by thriller222.)
10-31-2011 02:06 PM
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gore goroth Offline
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RE: My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

The government shouldn't tax anyone more. The government is just going to use any extra tax money it gets to expand and spend more on unneccassary shit instead of paying back the deficit. Instead of arguing over whose money to steal, I would rather figure out a way to make a new, better America instead of trying to fix the old one and pay back an absolutely rediculous deficit that we didn't even make for ourselves. The status quo is going to collapse eventually and I want it to stop.

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10-31-2011 02:35 PM
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Liquid Offline
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RE: My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

(10-31-2011 02:06 PM)thriller222 Wrote:  
(10-11-2011 07:43 AM)Liquid Wrote:  Sorry for the late reply
My theory on how we can stimulate the econmomy:


Quote:>Tax hikes for the rich and upper middle class. A tax rate of 60-70% on the top 1% would help start the long process of paying off our debt, and the big businesses would use their money to invest in their business because of the fact that they have less money to invest in business games that dont help the economy, such as speculation. Also, tax hikes will give the government more revenue so that it doesnt have to borrow as much.

Have to disagree. Raising taxes on the rich has historically backfired.

Examples?

The yacht tax in 1990 - Folks thought they were only targeting the rich with the new tax, unfortunately most "rich" people aren't "super rich" so they still care about price.

The yachts were built by lower middle class folks, once the tax came into effect that industry died and those people lost their jobs. (when the tax was repealed most of the US companies were dead so foreign companies moved in)


Quote:
Quote:The rich themselves do not benefit most of the economy at all, sometimes they even hurt the economy, however there is a large segment of the middle class that provides special services and relies on the existence of rich for income. That one segment of the middle class doing well is more important than the rich.

Well one thing to remember is that the rich also rely on the middle class to make the money for them. The rich dont actually work 1000X harder than the middle class, so why do they need all that money?

True...

However as long as they spend their money there is no problem. The fact that they can spend money on stuff that other people can't afford allows whole industries to exist that would not exist otherwise.

Quote:
Quote:Rather than taxing the rich more, personally I think there should be some sort of mandatory spending requirement.

Why?

Because of misers who get money but don't spend it.

Also because there are people out there who are worse than misers are for the economy. People who throw every cent they get into something that will give them more money. (While this can be good, it can cause bad problems too)

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:>Start necessary government spending. End the wars, shrink the military, and close some of our bases. But in the meantime, start high speed rails, start regulations on the market, socialize health care, and rebuild our infrastructure.

Agree.

(But don't get rid of the bases when they close)

Socialized Healthcare can go either way though, most governments set it up in a way that makes it worse than it was in the first place. I agree that it can be done right though and if it's done right it is a very good thing to have.

Well either way making money off of someones health is immoral. Maybe make it illegal to make healthcare for profit? That would reduce the cost of healthcare for one, so it is still a step in the right direction.

Well, the problem is that doctors need to be able to make a living just like everyone else, and since society would be terrible without them, they feel that they are entitled to people's money Smile This is compounded by the fact that people would sacrifice anything to make themselves or loved ones well again or live longer.

It's kinda a tough question :(

//

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11-01-2011 08:27 AM
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Post: #18
RE: My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

(10-08-2011 01:53 AM)Weswammy Wrote:  I would like to propose a counter plan that, I believe, will successfully achieve the goals of the above plan while not falling into some of the pitfalls of it:

>Cut taxes on everyone. No only for the poor and lower middle class, but for the richest among us as well. Make these tax cuts permanent too, because according to the permanent income hypothesis, "transitory, short-term changes in income have little effect on consumer spending behavior."

>Cut spending across the board if you want to stop the deficit and start paying down on the debt. Of course, the debt is a problem. Maybe not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be, or nearly as imminent of a problem, but better to nip it in the bud now than let it get as bad as Greece. Raising taxes on the rich is not necessarily a great way to get more revenue. See: Laffer curve.

>End all our wars, yes. Shrink military spending. Close down all American bases that aren't on American soil. Great. Also, I'm not against rebuilding our infrastructure. That is a legitimate function of government, however I feel that spending on welfare and warfare generally gets in the way of this function. Cut regulations on the market, make healthcare totally free market, and if it's profitable to have high speed rail let a company take it over.

>Get rid of NAFTA and all our other so-called free trade agreements, not because they are free trade but because they aren't free trade:
Ron Paul Wrote:http://citizen.typepad.com/eyesontrade/2...or-fr.html
If we were interested in free trade, as the pretense is, you could initiate free trade in one small paragraph. This bill is over 1,000 pages, and it is merely a pretext for free trade. At the same time we talk about free trade, we badger China, and that is not free trade. I believe in free trade, but this is not free trade. This is regulated, managed trade for the benefit of special interests. That is why I oppose it.
We need real free trade, it helps the economy and doesn't hurt it. Free trade allows countries to specialize. Going by the logic of protectionism, my family should, instead of buying cheaper goods from the store, make all our goods ourselves. If another country can make a good cheaper than our country can, aren't we, as a whole, benefiting by buying it from them instead of wasting our energies on making the same good at a higher price?
My favorite treatment of protectionism.
A short video that does a good job of explaining my position.

pretty much this. although i'm not against individual states doing things such as building high-speed rails, universal healthcare, etc. just the federal gov. they betta stay da fuck outa dat shit!
(10-08-2011 09:28 AM)thriller222 Wrote:  a tax rate of 60-70% would increase revenue by a ton, and big business owners would use the money that they have to increase the quality of their product, and quality of their business.

if taxes were that high, companies wouldnt be able to hire as many people.
i say lower corporate income tax to 5%, but raise the minimum wage
(This post was last modified: 11-02-2011 10:19 AM by jnkbortka.)
11-02-2011 10:14 AM
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Post: #19
RE: My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

(11-02-2011 10:14 AM)jnkbortka Wrote:  i say lower corporate income tax to 5%

LOL

Hidden stuff:
(11-27-2011 01:00 PM)psychopath Wrote:  
(11-27-2011 10:52 AM)Efs Wrote:  Our Army is more professional than Amerika. Smile
Except ours isn't allowed to have guns
CrayolaColours Wrote:That post owned. TDF wins post of the year.
Faby Wrote:
krissy Wrote:dessert fox
Mmm, flambéed vulpine.
"There is no enemy, there is no victory, only boys who lost their lives in the sand."
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11-03-2011 12:57 AM
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Efs Offline
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Post: #20
RE: My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

Cut capital gains tax and income tax. Tada!

(01-10-2012 02:15 PM)Maelstrom Wrote:  Efs, your nihilism is beautiful.
11-03-2011 05:48 AM
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jnkbortka Offline
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Post: #21
RE: My Plan to Stimulate the Economy

(11-03-2011 12:57 AM)The Desert Fox Wrote:  
(11-02-2011 10:14 AM)jnkbortka Wrote:  i say lower corporate income tax to 5%

LOL

if companies have to pay as much as 50% (state and federal combined) in the US, why wouldn't they move to china and have to pay half that?
(This post was last modified: 11-07-2011 02:06 AM by jnkbortka.)
11-07-2011 02:06 AM
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