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Freak · 08-21-2006 01:32 PM

I was wondering how an anarchic system could work, I mean in real life perspective. How to control power hungery assholes (Like Bush), how people would survive living off one another, how to support unity for the human race, ect.
..and since we're on the topic what kind of school system would work for us. Because if we want to bitch about how the school systems completely fucks over youth, we might aswell figure out a plan that will provide a less opressive education system.

**SoulRiser** · 08-21-2006 09:27 PM

i'm tempted to say something like 'just remove "system" from the equation' ... but that is too simple a thing to say and won't solve everything.

about the school system thing tho (which is a good starting point): if nobody has any direct control over what anyone has to learn and how/when/where/why and all that, then it isn't opressive. coercion sucks most of the benefit out of everything... but we already knew that Razz

so basically my point is, use the education model as an example. if nobody has any control over what people must or must not do, then it's all good - BUT that would only work if everyone was used to thinking for themselves, and not gullible enough to fall for some power-hungry dude's world takeover scheme Razz

if nobody would fall for power hungry dude's ideas in the first place, there would be no need to control them. yes, very idealistic. people are way too stupid for that.... currently. i guess the real question is: is there really that much potential in humanity?

Freak · 08-22-2006 04:57 AM

Quote: I’m tempted to say something like 'just remove "system" from the equation' ... but that is too simple a thing to say and won't solve everything.

Well, you get my meaning, how do you take a race of dependant, gullible, sheep... and turn them into a race that can live in peace, and harmony? And can :gasp: THINK FOR THEMSELVES! DUN DUN DUUUN! :sky dramatic turns gray, and thunder can be heard in the distance: Laugh

Quote: about the school system thing tho (which is a good starting point): if nobody has any direct control over what anyone has to learn and how/when/where/why and all that, then it isn't opressive. Coercion sucks most of the benefit out of everything... but we already knew that so basically my point is, use the education model as an example. if nobody has any control over what people must or must not do, then it's all good - BUT that would only work if everyone was used to thinking for themselves, and not gullible enough to fall for some power-hungry dude's world takeover scheme if nobody would fall for power hungry dude's ideas in the first place, there would be no need to control them. Yes, very idealistic. People are way too stupid for that.... currently. I guess the real question is: is there really that much potential in humanity?

There's hope!!! I swear it! The main problem I see that, without coercion, is it possible to get a proper education?
So conflict:
We want an anti-oppressive school system, where people are free to learn, but what if people don't WANT to learn?

But we need people to have an education, without it we'll have a nation of independent, free-thinkers ...that can't spell their name.

Solution: 1. Accept the sacrifice, hope for the best 2. Figure a perfect school system.
Idea number 1. Solution: Have a college type thing, i.e. students can come and go as they please, attendance is not mandatory ect.
Setbacks: Poeple won't go... at all, can come every once in a while but spaz out when they can't figure out what subject they're on (due to random attendance), then everyday in class everything will be in turmoil and nothing will get done, boom back to quare #1 nobody's getting an education.

Idea number 2. Have basic school (like up to elementary level) (Required, but have SHITLOAD better lesson plan and curriculum) Basic math (that's useful in real life) reading, social studies, ect. Then you go to special school for (enter job here) at about 13-ish-infinate
Setbacks: your oppressing all the 4-12 (approximately) year olds. People change, and so might your career choice. In so case, you get completely screwed. Also there's jobs you really don't need required school for. Like being a musician, sure I can understand learning an instrument, or art school, ect. But what about the people that don't need it, all they need it free time to book a gig? (We have to think about when people are not at school too. Then there's the "DING! Fries ready" jobs, fast food restaurants, valet parkers, drug dealers, ect. Laugh

Every one has a preferred career. And when they can't achieve their dream job, they get the crappy jobs. Everybody's always fighting for the American Dream... (Which is to be ridiculously wealthy) Bored

Also, you have to think about how big of turmoil this is going to be. You can't exactly make this a smooth transition, so any disruption like this in the school system is going to create a disturbance in teachers', students', hell EVERYBODIES' life. ..Ok maybe I'm exaggerating a little bit, but what ever. ;D
Or you could start city by city, start with a small rural town, and move in to major cities. Then with not as much school, you could use the extra teachers in under funded schools. Scratchchin

But that still leaves us with an anti-oppressive, pro-free-thinking school system to come up with... damn!

Freak · 08-24-2006 09:28 AM

SUGGESTIONS?

**SoulRiser** · 08-24-2006 01:18 PM

freak-of-nature13 Wrote:There's hope!!! I swear it! The main problem I see that, without coercion, is it possible to get a proper education?

is it possible to get a proper education with coercion? isn't coercion the main problem?

freak-of-nature13 Wrote:We want an anti-oppressive school system, where people are free to learn, but what if people don't WANT to learn?

do you know anyone who doesn't want to learn anything at all? sure, maybe they aren't interested in what someone else thinks they should be, but so what?

freak-of-nature13 Wrote:But we need people to have an education, without it we'll have a nation of independent, free-thinkers ...that can't spell their name.

i could read & write before i went to school... i'm sure some kids learnt it before i did, and some just get it later. there's no need to force people to learn to read or write.

freak-of-nature13 Wrote:Also, you have to think about how big of turmoil this is going to be. You can't exactly make this a smooth transition, so any disruption like this in the school system is going to create a disturbance in teachers', students', hell EVERYBODIES' life. ..Ok maybe I'm exaggerating a little bit, but what ever. ;D

i think a smooth-ish transition is the best way. you can't just go and overthrow all the governments and expect people to like it... they'll probably defend the governments. you have to build it from the ground up, starting with people. all people, not people in powerful positions, just everyone. i think the best way to make "anarchy" happen is to get everyone out of school. let them grow up thinking for themselves, questioning everything going on around them. eventually it'll get to the point where it's inevitable... of course, you can't just "get" everyone out of schools either... because they'd probably defend the schools... Laugh

it will only happen when everyone wants it to. when that is, i don't know Razz

Happy Camper · 08-24-2006 02:17 PM

I almost think we're seeing it happen. Or at least I feel like I see it happen.

Charter schools are growing pretty speedily. So it may give you a curriculum to work with but if you have a problem with what they give you, guess what? You ditch it ane make it from scratch. You pick your subject, you teach yourself, you show that you've mastered it, you get the credit.

So if that's an option now, think what the options will be twenty or fifty years down the road? It's a gradual process and I'd rather watch it evolve naturally than plan it out and force it down society's throat (...I think).

As far as the lacking potential of anarchy, it's always something that's led me to have a problem with it. I can respect a libertarian argument that pushes for minimal government interference, but I honestly don't believe there's any practicality in flat-out anarchy.

**SoulRiser** · 08-25-2006 06:57 AM

Happy Camper Wrote:So if that's an option now, think what the options will be twenty or fifty years down the road? It's a gradual process and I'd rather watch it evolve naturally than plan it out and force it down society's throat (...I think).

that's good, as long as governments don't try to regulate that to the point of suffocation. they're already trying to do that with homeschooling, but luckily, seem to be failing at it Wink

Happy Camper Wrote:As far as the lacking potential of anarchy, it's always something that's led me to have a problem with it. I can respect a libertarian argument that pushes for minimal government interference, but I honestly don't believe there's any practicality in flat-out anarchy.

yeah, i've always had a problem with the notion that the government is supposed to 'serve' the citizens, protect them and generally make things better. but its the other way around, it's as if citizens serve the government. so minimal government interference would be great... that probably wouldn't work overnight though either... Razz

Freak · 08-25-2006 11:27 AM

Kind of ironic, huh?
Well any thoughts on the school system though?

09-16-2006 12:43 PM

Would an anarchic system of education work? Of course! Just look at unschoolers, not to mention the 200 000 years we lived without schools.

Better than a completely anarchic system would be just getting rid of mandatory schooling. That way you have a choice, unschooling or schools. Right now our school system sucks, but it isn't the problem of schools in general. Some people are better learning with others, some with their own experiences. I think that people should have that choice.

My favourite school type is the early Greek (pre-400 BCE) system, which was not really a system at all. It consisted of learning from your parents the basics, then following the crazy philosophers around Athens. Back in them days you could walk around the market and talk to the smartest people in the land, nowadays you have to be one the smartest people or be in their university.

Happy Camper · 09-16-2006 12:46 PM

Kirby Wrote:My favourite school type is the early Greek (pre-400 BCE) system, which was not really a system at all. It consisted of learning from your parents the basics, then following the crazy philosophers around Athens. Back in them days you could walk around the market and talk to the smartest people in the land, nowadays you have to be one the smartest people or be in their university.

I am so with you on that one. Except in order to get on the inside of the philosophy world you had to be pretty elite as well. Nothing in this world is ever perfect.

But if women were included in the philosophy demographic, I would so be up that alley.

WildFire · 09-16-2006 12:52 PM

Yah soemtimes i feel like that too. I agree with all you guys.

**SoulRiser** · 09-17-2006 12:37 AM

I dig crazy philosophers Laugh

Problem is, they have to hide their crazy philosopherness from the world, to avoid ending up in an asylum, so they tend to be somewhat hard to spot.

Happy Camper · 09-17-2006 05:41 AM

And then following them around in the street could probably get you caught for stalking...

xXThe Damnation ProjectXx · 09-17-2006 06:51 AM

ROFL

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