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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

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Pro-School Arguments
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happy fool called Nigel Offline
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Post: #61
 

Dark Soul X Wrote:7. Who the hell came up with school in the first place?
8. Why was he or she allowed to live for torturing children like that?

Those are some good ones.


Prussian Government.

They had the guns. They had the power.

They in the sea being burnt, they in the burnt ship drowned.


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01-21-2008 09:58 AM
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Darthmat Offline
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Post: #62
 

cryptevah72 Wrote:look, school has its goods and its bads, and yeah, it needs to change, ALOT, but the very idea is not bad. humanity is flawed to hell, does that mean we should end it? of change it?
Idea is good. The way it is bad.Coming up w/ a way to change it w/o aboloshing it, good luck.

School is sooo different then humanity. We are humanity, school is not us.

I highly suggest Mobb Deep's albums The Infamous and Hell on Earth, if you have not listened to it yet.
01-21-2008 11:32 AM
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cryptevah72 Offline
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Post: #63
 

i twas giving an analogy, and what do you mean? is it easier to amend the constitution, or get rid of it completely?

i am me myself and i
we are very much the same
different types of entities
under one single name


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01-21-2008 12:01 PM
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Darthmat Offline
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Post: #64
 

Getting rid of it is easier than changing school.

I highly suggest Mobb Deep's albums The Infamous and Hell on Earth, if you have not listened to it yet.
01-21-2008 12:11 PM
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cryptevah72 Offline
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Post: #65
 

thats your opinion

i am me myself and i
we are very much the same
different types of entities
under one single name


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01-21-2008 12:29 PM
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The Apathy Offline
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Post: #66
 

cryptevah72 Wrote:i twas giving an analogy, and what do you mean? is it easier to amend the constitution, or get rid of it completely?

Actually all they need to do is form the North American Union Uhoh

Thus rendering the constitution obsolete. Smile

happy trails.

Who am I? That is irrelevant.
What am I here for? That will become apparent.
You can call me Apathy!
01-21-2008 01:09 PM
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liq3 Offline
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Post: #67
 

R00t Wrote:You can scream about how school damages someone socially, but unless you can provide studies or data to back up your statements, you will consistently fall in debate.
Oh oh OH OH !!! Pick me! Pick me!

(Note: I skipped from that post and didn't read the rest of the thread...so excuse me if I'm being redundant.)

Well you see here, I used to go to high school. Guess what kind of personality I learned in high school?...Come on, guess! Oh alright I'll tell you. I learned to be quiet, do what I was told, to put EVERYONE before myself, that if I ever disagreed with someone to either shut up about it, or I was wrong. Oh Oh...Lets not forget what I didn't learn! I didn't learn confidence, I didn't learn how to make freinds, I didn't learn how to introduce myself to people! Oh this is a funny one. You see, they were teaching me how to introduce myself in Japanese, but forgot to teach me in English first! Oh they're so smart! What else...Oh they also taught me punishment was worse then death. When I got my first after-school detention - and in year 9 I got it!...Wait for it....I got the flu! Yes, I'm rather quite certain my body planned everything out perfectly, lowering my immune system and such, so I'd be sick for it! How wonderful is that? That's how scared they taught me to be of it. Wonderful social behavior isn't it? Did I mention I had little to no self-esteem?

Oh but all that changed. See I had this MAJOR crush on this girl for like year 7 - 10. The thing, being who I was, I was faaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrr too scared to even approach her. But this was MAAAAAAAAJOR crush. So made the bigest goal in my life at the time, of building my confidence so I finally could. What ended up happening, is that I found this website, changed to homeschooling (AYCE) 3 months later, passed year 10 (I think, they haven't told me yet) and then enrolled in a Computer Science course at RMIT University. Howzat?! I'm in uni and don't even know if I've passed year 10 Biggrin And I owe it all to unlearning just about everything I learned at school. Awesome isn't it?! Biggrin

P.S. I haven't talked to my crush since I entered ACYE/homeschooling. I've basically forgetton about her. Oh well.
01-27-2008 02:55 AM
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cryptevah72 Offline
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Post: #68
 

besides saying "oh" a bit too much, i like ur points, ur highschool sounded like it sucked, but im glad you managed to save ur own life Biggrin

oh, and HI!!!

i am me myself and i
we are very much the same
different types of entities
under one single name


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01-27-2008 12:47 PM
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Darthmat Offline
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Post: #69
 

Laugh

I highly suggest Mobb Deep's albums The Infamous and Hell on Earth, if you have not listened to it yet.
01-27-2008 12:50 PM
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liq3 Offline
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Post: #70
 

cryptevah72 Wrote:besides saying "oh" a bit too much, i like ur points, ur highschool sounded like it sucked, but im glad you managed to save ur own life Biggrin

oh, and HI!!!
Actually it was fairly good for a high school. Most of the VCE staff the teachers and all, were good. Most of the teachers that at the very least knew how to teach their subjects without being dicks about it. Though, I didn't meet anyone there that wasn't completely brainwashed by the school. Oh wait actually I did Biggrin. I'm still friends with her. She's got so much power there that she can walk out of school grounds and no one stops her.

So yeh, my HS was pretty darn good COMPARED TO OTHER SCHOOLS. I still hate it, and I doubt even a million dollars would get me to go back there and finish VCE (year 11/12).
01-27-2008 01:52 PM
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cryptevah72 Offline
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Post: #71
 

ok, well im glad it wasnt hell, i mean, almost all schools have some good and bad, just happy for u that it seems like ur on the track u wanna be on right now

i am me myself and i
we are very much the same
different types of entities
under one single name


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01-27-2008 02:10 PM
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David B. Offline
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Post: #72
 

Quote:look, school has its goods and its bads, and yeah, it needs to change, ALOT, but the very idea is not bad.
Yes . . . it IS a bad idea - right down to concept.

The growth of knowledge and understanding is not a bad idea - the idea of education is to nurture the natural development of knowledge by inspiring and developing the humans innate sense of curiosity and exposing them to the real world as a means to prepare them for the real world.

School institutions are secluded from the rest of society, and are designed specifically with the intentions to create a life-dependant, predictable, consumer bases and human resources to help feed the economy and power the corporate machine by dumbing down its citizens into doing "limited functions" rather than being complete well-rounded self-reliant individuals - yes, school is a disaster to any self-respecting individual from the ground up. It's not something that fails to do what its supposed to do - it's something that succeeds to do exactly what it sets out to do - and THAT is the problem.
02-02-2008 03:03 AM
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starfish Offline
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Post: #73
Re:

Legion Wrote:7. Who the hell came up with school in the first place?
8. Why was he or she allowed to live for torturing children like that?

Those are some good ones.

I think it's really interesting that I learned this little story IN SCHOOL. Not often that I learned anything even slightly interesting there.

A recent history of school

It's the industrial revolution. People are POURING into the cities from farms looking to make money and have a better, higher standard of living. Kids work in factories right along with their parents. They need to, such is the high demand for workers and families needing the extra income. Then technology gets better, and less employees are needed to operate the machines. There arn't so many jobs for kids anymore, and as a result there are tons of young, poor, bored kids running around the streets commiting crimes and just fucking things up in general. What to do? How do you keep a whole generation occupied untill they're needed for the workforce? And public school was invented, as well as the concept of being "underage". Up untill then only children from wealthy families attended school. The parents of poorer families needed their kids to work.

School is a mass scale babysitting, brainwashing institute that exists because there are too many fucking people and not enough things to do. We are a surplus generation. No one is really needed, and everyone is expendible or replaceble.

I'm going to fight this, personaly by not sending my children to school. I hope to lead by example. If we all lead by example, maybe we will start a movement. It's hard controlling or convincing others, especialy when they believe in something. All you can really do is choose not to believe it yourself, which is probably the most important thing.
02-22-2008 12:17 PM
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youvebeenthunderstruck Offline
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Post: #74
Re: Pro-School Arguments

Bump.

<lordpie> Life sucks so much right now. It seems I'm spending all of it doing math.
<Rosti_LFC> You are "Math Boy"
<Rosti_LFC> Doer of math
<Rosti_LFC> Unable to integrate with society. Only with functions of x
03-03-2008 06:59 PM
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The Desert Fox Offline
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Post: #75
Re: Pro-School Arguments

Wow, that was probably one of the best topics/whatever I have ever read.

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(11-27-2011 10:52 AM)Efs Wrote:  Our Army is more professional than Amerika. Smile
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07-27-2008 07:26 AM
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Darthmat Offline
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Post: #76
Re: Pro-School Arguments

Thunder, this is stickied. It needs no bump.

I highly suggest Mobb Deep's albums The Infamous and Hell on Earth, if you have not listened to it yet.
07-27-2008 11:58 AM
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youvebeenthunderstruck Offline
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Post: #77
Re: Pro-School Arguments

I don't remember at the time... maybe it wasn't stickied then.
07-27-2008 12:04 PM
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Trar Away
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Post: #78
Re: Pro-School Arguments

Kirby Wrote:Pro-School Arguments

1. "If children didn't go to school, how would they socialize?"

Answer: This argument is based on the assumption that children are incapable forming relationships outside of a certain building. School can allow socialization but children can also socialize outside of school.

My mom keeps me in school for the sole reason of learning to socialize. She says it's a shit world, and I gotta learn aout it in a shit place. Needless to say, I think I have it down.
08-25-2008 02:06 AM
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dreamer... Offline
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Post: #79
Re: Pro-School Arguments

If a compulsory schooling advocate reminds you that you met some of your best friends in school, remind her that other people have met their best friends in prison. Does that mean everyone should go to prison? Cool

By the way, Trar, your avatar rocks. Biggrin
08-26-2008 08:29 PM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #80
Re: Pro-School Arguments

Quote:If a compulsory schooling advocate reminds you that you met some of your best friends in school
But I met my best friends in college and on the internet. Fu

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08-26-2008 11:47 PM
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Elfy Offline
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Post: #81
Re: Pro-School Arguments

Surely you cant be forced to go to school?
Why shouldn't school be made optional!?!?!?!?

They shouldn't be aloud to tell you what to do or where to go or what to wear , Its fucking riddiculous!
What happened to freedom?

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09-04-2008 04:19 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #82
Re: Pro-School Arguments

I found a really nice page debunking a lot of myths: http://www.asfar.org/papers/education.php
Dunno why I'd never seen it before.

That page however inspired me to make a FAQ for SS, which I spent the past 4 and a half hours on... Omg
It's now here: http://www.school-survival.net/about/

I'm now half asleep so tell me if there's anything I should add or fix or whatever. Smile

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10-01-2008 09:36 AM
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dragonhead90 Offline
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Post: #83
Re: Pro-School Arguments

1. "If children didn't go to school, how would they socialize?"

My own take: People simply don't need a school for the sole excuse of "socializing". This is a phony excuse and can never even be considered as a reason. There are about a hundreds of ways how to socialize - just talking to your siblings and bonding with them (which not only strengthens family connection but teaches you how to socialize in a cozy manner) is already a form of socializing. I know that that is limited. There's other ways. You can go outside your house and meet the people in your neighborhood, join some clubs, organizations or outside lessons like special swimming classes, acting classes, whatever. Socializing is there and it's part of life, not only part of school. Simply put, people are around us everyday and socializing is simply a must. School, simply, is not some sacred institution for "socializing" for God's sakes. Whoever posed this pro-school argument should be heavily slapped for stupidity beyond comprehension and that is not even an exaggerated sarcasm.


2. "If children didn't go to school, how would they learn to do X?"

My own take: Excuse me, but you needn't be forced to consume unnecessary things which are just simply useless for your success and personal growth. There are a lot of unnecessary dumb recipes presented to you in a four-walled prison room called a classroom which don't simply serve any necessary knowledge for your take on the world. You only need to know the things you need to learn, and the basic ones, which will come naturally once a child willingly embrace them for his/her own maturation. I'm not sure if the pro-school arguers get me but I rest it with that. how would they learn to do X? Well, how come you don't know how to reason well as much as you think you knew X enough to impose it on others?

3. "If children didn't go to school, how would they become responsible adults?"

My own take: There's just an eerie tone of stupidity that can be felt within this statement from a mile away that I don't know how to elaborate it in an articulate manner. How would they become responsible adults? yada yada yada.. Anyway, school definitely never teaches any sort of responsibility. The school forces students to follow the rules and obey at all costs at the authority's demand no matter how nonsensical and stupid it may be. Being responsible means you are held accountable to whatever consequences you may face, and that for yourself you know the right thing to do with your decisions. School never teaches this self-growth philosophy but rather painfully forces prisoners to abide by the laws abandoning reason and heartfelt values. If being brainwashed robots are what being "responsible" mean, then I suggest the person that would pose this pro-school argument should better buy a dictionary.

4. "You should be glad that you have schooling, what about the millions that don't?"

My own take: I am glad that I am definitely not starving on the street, but I am definitely unfulfilled and depressed to face the fact that I need to attend some prison system called "School". Physical deprivation is indeed a very depressing case, the lowest at the bottom of all depressions, but unhappiness and depression can also be formed when personal necessities have not been met, social acceptance & comfort, for example. Many go unfulfilled just because of school and that some are even bothered by it that it caused them mental insanity. School can be a very traumatizing experience for kids and the fact that grown-ups tend to overlook that just because it's a "child's problem" increases their suicidal thoughts and tendencies. Now, burn your school institution.

5. "School is just something that everyone has to do."

My own take: Nonsensical conformity. See. This is why I hate conformity without any valid judgment. This is a teenager's pro-school argument. Everybody takes drugs, so should I. Everybody takes alcohol, so should I. Everybody has their girlfriends/boyfriends, so should I. Everybody is cool, so should I. Please stop whining and start thinking.

6. "Without a high school diploma getting (a job)/(into college) will be very hard."

My own take: I think this site pretty much addresses alternatives. Now, school measures endurance and slavery, not intelligence or what you're capable of. For starters, don't you realize how stupid it is to even 'grade' how much your mind is capable of in subjective lame standards?
11-07-2008 04:05 AM
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Post: #84
Re: Pro-School Arguments

AGREED!
11-24-2008 03:25 AM
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Post: #85
Re: Pro-School Arguments

My acquantance has told me that school helps prevent kids from doing drugs, gangs, HIV, other bad stuff, and usually brings up the fact that it's different in other countries. Can anyone help me with this? Stats, or something?

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11-27-2008 03:25 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #86
Re: Pro-School Arguments

Quote:My acquantance has told me that school helps prevent kids from doing drugs, gangs, HIV, other bad stuff, and usually brings up the fact that it's different in other countries. Can anyone help me with this? Stats, or something?
Ask your "acquaintance" to prove his own statement. If he can't, then you don't have to disprove it. I have a funny feeling that even if you give him some stats, he won't care either way.

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11-27-2008 08:48 AM
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Lily Offline
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Post: #87
Re: Pro-School Arguments

I think kids should know everything their spossed to but the way there going about it is all Nono wrong. Some kids do better without schooling but i think its unfair that the gov. makes everybody have schooling
We should have yearly tests to make sure were learning but "school" isn't required.I wish there were schools based on talents and what KIDS like to do because they are the ones going to that school.i'm tired of doing what the "county" is doing..... Noo
Lately i've been trying to harvest the power of teens/kids in fads(ex:Twilight). See this is my hypothosis if there came a book out that went against the gov./school/juvie (Ex:On the run series, Young brother,Maximum Ride<-(a little bit)). What if the kids/teens got hooked on to some thing like that how could people ingnore them.I mean there millions of us and even half of that would get us reconition.Its time for people to see that their precious little systems DON'T always work right!
12-25-2008 07:13 AM
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Faby Offline
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Post: #88
Re: Pro-School Arguments

"If children didn't go to school, how would they socialize?"


Oh. I dunno. By talking to others? That's why we've got a mouth and a brain. This argument is really ironic, since you can use it to counter the pro-school view: in school we are told to be quiet and not talk to others. And whenever we do talk, we always have to talk about superficial stuff like fashion, and what star got married to another, or what football team won dunno what game... There's no intelligent/interesting discussions to be had.

On the other hand, I know people who haven't been to school and they can talk pretty fine if you ask me :/


"If children didn't go to school, how would they learn to do X?"


Let's see: books, internet, parents. We're in the 21st century, and I think we've gotten advanced enough to get alternatives.



"If children didn't go to school, how would they become responsible adults?"



Responsibility is a respect-worthy thing, but I wouldn't say school really presents responsibility as it truly is: in school, you are forced to be responsible for things you did not offer yourself to do. You are forced to accept the consequences for not doing a task that was not imposed by yourself, but by teachers.


"You should be glad that you have schooling, what about the millions that don't?"


Oh yes. The old guilt argument. Does wonders, so I heard.
But, no. This argument is used to make gullible people follow school's preposterous methods. It's pretty much like saying "Oh, my parents beat the crap outta me and abuse me but at least I have a place to stay." (which is equally wrong)


"School is just something that everyone has to do."


Oh dear. This argument causes a plethora of effects on me...

1. Anger
2. Amusement
3. Certain disdain towards humankind.


People. We're in the 21st century. Not the Dark Ages. We figured out we have brains in order to think, and to form our unique personalities and identities. There is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all solution to anything except natural needs. (food,water,etc)


"Without a high school diploma getting (a job)/(into college) will be very hard."



With so many examples of people who succeeded despite of their lack of formal education, I think this argument becomes a bit useless. Sure, if you want to be a lawyer, or a doctor, you do have to go through school/college (but it's still flawed insofar that people interested in medicine should have the option of just learning biology/anatomy instead of literature and stuff, but more on that later), but the world isn't just "be a doctor/lawyer/CEO or die on the streets starving". There are many ideas of work that don't even have jobs created for them. And here's the part when you get self-employed. I think it's hard in the beginning, but with hope and perseverance I think you can go far. Smile

Let go of all desire for the common good, and the good becomes common as grass.

~~

Good fortune follows upon disaster;
Disaster lurks within good fortune;
Who can say how things will end?
Perhaps there is no end.
01-03-2009 05:43 AM
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escru Offline
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Post: #89
Re: Pro-School Arguments

Lol. Thats all I can say.

I'm Canadian, and in high school (gr 12). I'm not too sure about american schools, but from what I've heard like everyone fucking drops out and works at target and try to scrap some online course.

Of course, you can say that the American high school system (or whatever the fuck you call it) has failed american youth. I think its just the youth problem. Theres this mentality that school sucks. I know this is gonna hurt you since you people sound fairly intelligent, but dropouts are just plain stupid.

I mean think about it. Life is hard. Do you just give up cuz your teacher is being gay? No. You know the reason why old people keep saying youngsters are turning out for the worse? Its because you have it SO much easier yet you still complain and bitch to no end.

What makes you think you can succeed in life if you give up so easily. Sure its boring - every job in the world is fucking boring. You can say the world is just entrapped in being quiet and doing mindless work. This doesn't just apply to high school. So with that information, what makes you think you can succeed in real life if you couldn't even fucking handle juniour science?

I'm gonna have to say this - have fun working at target or walmart or mcdonalds. I know SOME of you will be able to get semi decent jobs without attending highschool or college/university. But the MAJORITY will become fucking hobos, or take to the streets. Heck, you'll be drifing in and out of jobs and living possibly in your rent's basements.

That was long, yes, but I'd just like to conclude by saying if you can fucking handle school, you most probably cant handle life in general.
01-21-2009 10:55 AM
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Michio-kun Offline
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Post: #90
Re: Pro-School Arguments

Obvious troll is obvious.

To a mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. - Chuang-tzu
The quieter you become, the more you can hear. - Baba Ram Dass
The whole moon and the entire sky are reflected in one dewdrop on the grass. - Dogen
Great Faith. Great Doubt. Great Effort. - The three qualities necessary for training. - Zen saying
Possessing much knowledge is like having a thousand foot fishing line with a hook, but the fish is always an inch beyond the hook. - Zen saying
01-21-2009 10:58 AM
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