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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.
I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.
I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.
I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.
I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.
Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.
Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.
-SoulRiser
The forums are mostly read-only and are in a maintenance/testing phase, before being permanently archived. Please use this time to get the contact details of people you'd like to keep in touch with. My contact details are here.
Please do not make a mirror copy of the forums in their current state - things will still change, and some people have requested to be able to edit or delete some of their personal info.
I'll never believe there's a god. Nothing could ever convince me. Because of what definition of god I accept.
A god would have to be the creator of everything. It would have to be a conscious entity. It would have to have made the conscious choice to create everything.
Suppose this being exists. How do you explain the existence of the god itself? There's only one possible explanation that would keep this "god" its god-status. It would have to be the creator of itself. But to choose to create would require that it already had consciousness and thus already existed, so it could never have created itself, so it can't be THE god, but only A god. There has to be some bigger explanation of where it, the so-called god, came from. And that bigger explanation could be another god, but then you have the same problem of where that god came from. At some point, you have to come back to a natural phenomenon. Thus, all these gods, whether there are a million of them or one or zero, are subordinate to some physical law(s) and we would be able to eventually find the explanation, making these "gods" just natural events. So fuck them, I'm not going to worship them. They aren't gods, they're just a different kind of entity. To call them god would be the same as when those aliens wanted to worship picard on star-trek. I think that actually happened on two different episodes? Anyway, though picard may be more powerful than them and though he may have the ability to create via the replicators, he is not a god, he's just a natural event or a series of natural events. It would be the same with anything someone might worship as a god, assuming the entity were even real.
Life is good. Jeta është e mirë.
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.
Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
It's not scary, I don't really watch scary movies either. Most of 'em suck, and are cheesy as shit. The really scary ones keep me up for months. Fuck 'em.
Ryan Reynolds is in it. At one point in the movie, it looks like it's going to get scary, but then it doesn't.
Exactly, everything is a natural event in my eyes. Even unnatural events. Maybe god is real.
If the universe is infinite(in an infinite universe, anything that can happen, happens, look up boltzmann brains to see an example of it), then there ARE "gods" out there, even gods that sit on top of clouds, and if something is "unexplainable" then you simply don't understand it yet, maybe you never will. Maybe the whole bible is true, but there's still no reason to truly worship a god or gods.
01-18-2011 06:34 PM
Thanks given by:
Vatman
Foreplay in Ink
Posts: 2,701
Joined: Feb 2007
I don't subscribe to any religion. But I'm not against a god; or at least a supernatural logic to the universe. It comforts me to watch snow fall and find safety in white chaos blanketing the world.
(( Also a great counter to god's omnipotence is the creation paradox. If god can create anything, could he create something so large he could not lift it? ))
Why? Scientifically we've almost completely ruled it out. The only room for religion is what happened before, and in the beginning of the big bang. Soon enough we'll figure that out as well.
All an intelligent creator needs to do is set the initial starting conditions for the universe, define some laws, and let things play out as he wants them too.
Anything that exists outside of this universe doesn't need a cause, because time and therefore causality is an aspect of this universe.
You can't disprove that there's a fucking civilization of microscopic invisible people living on the tip of my dick and singing Christmas songs while worshiping the devil and killing each other either. That doesn't mean I'm going to believe it though.
Absentinsomniac Wrote:You can't disprove that there's a fucking civilization of microscopic invisible people living on the tip of my dick and singing Christmas songs while worshiping the devil and killing each other either.
With all the bullshit religion has caused in history, I think it's just been another way for those in power to control their people, like school. Besides, religious people haven't been very nice on history, I mean even on the bible it says you should "judge trees by their fruit". And the bible is full of misogynist bullshit, "you must love your government" bullshit, hit your kids bullshit, etc. And there are so many fucking religions claiming to be "the true religion", not just Christianity. Which one should I believe on?
The bible doesn't say love your government. It says obey them, because they don't carry a sword for no reason. Bible says discipline your children, but there is a BIG difference between discipline and child abuse.
Christianity is fundamentally different to other religions. Religions teach that you have to be good enough. It's all about what you do. People in authority can use this to manipulate followers to do whatever they like. Religion like this creates two kinds of people. Either you think you are good enough, and you become arrogant and self-righteous, or you don't think you are good enough and you become depressed and despair.
A lot of people treat Christianity the same way. But a faith that is based on the bible and on Jesus doesn't produce people like this. Most people who say they are Christians really aren't. Like Lunatic said, you have to judge them by their fruits. Those Christians who show good fruit believe in something that is unlike any religion.
Now we come to Jesus. Jesus teaches something different. Jesus divides people in two as well. Jesus sees repentant people, and un-repentant people. Not good and bad, because all are bad. Not those who follow the rules and those who don't, because everyone breaks them. Religion is all about you. It's all about what YOU do, all about whether YOU are good enough, whether YOU have followed all the rules. Redemption is about JESUS. JESUS was good enough. JESUS followed the rules. And JESUS wants to be with you, and all you have to do is let him.
I don't worship god because if there was one, he would be a fascist. and I am against all hierarchy, even if it would mean I would go to hell.
----------------------------------------------
(In terms of suffering): Hell < Earth
Hidden stuff:
TRIGGER WARNING: THIS TRIGGER WARNING CONTAINS TRIGGER WARNINGS!
Dear Tumblrites:Despite your wrongly self-diagnosedPTSD, no line ofscientific evidencesuggests people can be triggered over theinternet. Triggering works through thesenses(i.e. smell, taste, touch, vision, hearing.) but it goes throughreal time; if you're not experiencing it in real life as it'sACTUALLY HAPPENINGin yourACTUALlife, youCANNOTbe triggered. The only exception to this is if you have aseizure, but then again, that's triggered byepilepsy(i.e. rapidly-changing flashing lights)NOT PTSD. Remembering a bad incident is NOT the same thing as having aflashback. When you remember, youthink; when youflashback,youfeel.
#HashTagsAreForIdiots
Max Stirnir Wrote:"In the time of spirits thoughts grew till they overtopped my head, whose offspring they yet were; they hovered about me and convulsed me like fever-phantasies -- an awful power. The thoughts had become corporeal on their own account, were ghosts, e. g. God, Emperor, Pope, Fatherland, etc. If I destroy their corporeity, then I take them back into mine, and say: "I alone am corporeal." And now I take the world as what it is to me, as mine, as my property; I refer all to myself."The Ego and Its Own, pg. 15
Charles Manson Wrote:“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”
HeartofShadows Wrote:"Life is nothing more than a druggie trying to get their quick fix of happiness while dealing with the harsh withdrawal of reality"
Osip Mandelstam Wrote:"I divide all of world literature into authorized and unauthorized works. The former are all trash; the latter--stolen air. I want to spit in the face of every writer who first obtains permission and then writes."The Fourth Prose, 1930.
Lukas Foss Wrote:That is why the analogy of stealing does not work. With a thief, we want to know how much money he stole, and from whom. With the artist it is not how much he took and from whom, but what he did with it.
Vatman Wrote:(( Also a great counter to god's omnipotence is the creation paradox. If god can create anything, could he create something so large he could not lift it? ))
Could he create something so light he could not lift it? Why not pile more contradictions on?
Life is good. Jeta është e mirë.
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.
Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
Jonno Wrote:Whats make you think you will suffer more on earth than in hell?
I've seen it all. Hell is just a place where you burn in physical trauma, its not like the other pains. Like knowing you're useless and have nobody to talk to, or feeling like everyone else is superior to you, or perhaps getting raped, or anything else that goes beyond just hurting. Suffering.
Hidden stuff:
TRIGGER WARNING: THIS TRIGGER WARNING CONTAINS TRIGGER WARNINGS!
Dear Tumblrites:Despite your wrongly self-diagnosedPTSD, no line ofscientific evidencesuggests people can be triggered over theinternet. Triggering works through thesenses(i.e. smell, taste, touch, vision, hearing.) but it goes throughreal time; if you're not experiencing it in real life as it'sACTUALLY HAPPENINGin yourACTUALlife, youCANNOTbe triggered. The only exception to this is if you have aseizure, but then again, that's triggered byepilepsy(i.e. rapidly-changing flashing lights)NOT PTSD. Remembering a bad incident is NOT the same thing as having aflashback. When you remember, youthink; when youflashback,youfeel.
#HashTagsAreForIdiots
Max Stirnir Wrote:"In the time of spirits thoughts grew till they overtopped my head, whose offspring they yet were; they hovered about me and convulsed me like fever-phantasies -- an awful power. The thoughts had become corporeal on their own account, were ghosts, e. g. God, Emperor, Pope, Fatherland, etc. If I destroy their corporeity, then I take them back into mine, and say: "I alone am corporeal." And now I take the world as what it is to me, as mine, as my property; I refer all to myself."The Ego and Its Own, pg. 15
Charles Manson Wrote:“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”
HeartofShadows Wrote:"Life is nothing more than a druggie trying to get their quick fix of happiness while dealing with the harsh withdrawal of reality"
Osip Mandelstam Wrote:"I divide all of world literature into authorized and unauthorized works. The former are all trash; the latter--stolen air. I want to spit in the face of every writer who first obtains permission and then writes."The Fourth Prose, 1930.
Lukas Foss Wrote:That is why the analogy of stealing does not work. With a thief, we want to know how much money he stole, and from whom. With the artist it is not how much he took and from whom, but what he did with it.
Firstly, the Bible says to you should be pay attention to what your government is doing, it does say that the duty of obedience requires all to give due honor to authority and to treat those who are charged to exercise it with respect, and in so far as it is deserved with gratitude and good-will.
Christian love is not defined exactly as "you have to obey me!" it's defined as the to want good for another.
Secondly, we've got proof of God in miracles. One famous miracle was Fatima, Portugal. In Fatima there was an appartion of Mary she told the three children that she appeared and she give them a message and a miracle so that all would believe. The sun actually "danced" and turned different colors where and Mary made. There were thousands of witnesses, that includes athiests. And other people witnessed the solar miracle from a distance thus ruling out the possibility of any type of collective hallucination (and I know you were probably thinking it)
Anyway miracles are checked out pretty throughoutly doctors know that atheists and skeptical scientists would destroy their medical careers if they reported a miracle as true that wasn't airtight and without doubt. The verdict/when are accepted as official by the church is only after long through checks. They check medical records before and after if it was a healing and not some other miracle, have many checkups to make sure people are still cured and asks them hours worth of questions to make sure it will stand-up when skeptic scientists get word of it, they interview witnesses, and has the cured person ask their doctor for their medical records and confirmation that they had a problem and are cured, and check if there could be a natural cause instead.
There really are miracles and when they are verified doctors make sure that they check every other possibility, and guess what there are miracles.
~The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an eggs-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'. I am committed to school.
Quote:Now we come to Jesus. Jesus teaches something different. Jesus divides people in two as well. Jesus sees repentant people, and un-repentant people. Not good and bad, because all are bad. Not those who follow the rules and those who don't, because everyone breaks them. Religion is all about you. It's all about what YOU do, all about whether YOU are good enough, whether YOU have followed all the rules. Redemption is about JESUS. JESUS was good enough. JESUS followed the rules. And JESUS wants to be with you, and all you have to do is let him.
But you just said that it's not about whether or not you break the rules.
Quote:Now we come to Jesus. Jesus teaches something different. Jesus divides people in two as well. Jesus sees repentant people, and un-repentant people. Not good and bad, because all are bad. Not those who follow the rules and those who don't, because everyone breaks them. Religion is all about you. It's all about what YOU do, all about whether YOU are good enough, whether YOU have followed all the rules. Redemption is about JESUS. JESUS was good enough. JESUS followed the rules. And JESUS wants to be with you, and all you have to do is let him.
But you just said that it's not about whether or not you break the rules.
No it's about intention to keep the rules or to not even try. It's about repenting, regreting doing your sins, and to asking God for forgiveness.
~The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an eggs-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'. I am committed to school.
Sasayaki Wrote:Christian love is not defined exactly as "you have to obey me!" it's defined as the to want good for another.
Loving God is the same as obeying God. But God loving you is not the same as God obeying you. The obey=love thing only applies in one direction from subordinate to superior.
What you seem to think I said was that "I love you," is the same as, "You have to obey me,". No, that's not what I meant. If you took what I said literally, then you would have gotten
I love you = I obey you
which is different from what you said I said.
You're saying, "I love you," means, "I feel benevolent towards you." I accept that as one aspect of love, the other being "I am delighted by you". But when christians say "love god" they mean "obey god". It's completely different. Stupid authoritarian crap.
Quote:Secondly, we've got proof of God in miracles.
This is where I stop reading, crazy.
Granting that your "miracles" do prove your "god" to exist, you'd still have to get around the fact that this "god" has to have an explanation and that will lead back to natural phenomena, negating the god-status. Your "god" is just some shithead dicking around like a kid with an ant-farm.
Life is good. Jeta është e mirë.
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.
Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
Whenever God was around always, or whenever I'm saying that he was around before Earth. And he seriously does care about you even if you don't about him. Anyway, when someone cares about someone they want to make them happy. Sinning is deliberately turning your back on God which you do when you don't do what he asks you to.
~The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an eggs-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'. I am committed to school.
Show me the verse that tells us to physically abuse children.
Lets assume for a minute that I'm right. Then God was the creator of this universe and everything in it. He created all the natural laws that govern this universe, and occasionally breaks them to prove that he is God. If I'm right, then God is also eternal and self-existant, as he exists outside of time and is not subject to causality. Under this definition, how can he be a result of natural processes? I think it would be better to think of him as the ultimate natural process, as all others proceed from him.
As for the rock so big he can't lift it paradox, God is still subject to logic. He couldn't do this any more than he could tell you the last digit of pi. If he were anything but perfectly rational, then he wouldn't be God.
Lunatic: God is perfect. He demands nothing less than perfection from us. We do have to keep all the rules. But if God just left it there, then there would be no-one in heaven. No-one has kept all the rules. Everyone has sinned, and no-one is good enough to stand before God. So Jesus offers us a way out of this legalism. He came to live with us, going through everything we went through. But he never sinned, and so when he was executed, he didn't deserve it. But then God the father poured out all his anger and wrath on Jesus, so that Jesus took the punishment we deserve, and died the death we should have died. If Christianity were all about obeying the rules, then it is the most depressing religion on earth. But it isn't. It is about Jesus obeying all the rules so we don't have to.
He created us perfect. But he also gave us the option of turning away from him. He created us because he wanted us to love eachother and himself, but there can't really be love if there is no possibility of anything else. He didn't want robots, he wanted beings capable of making choices and having moral accountability. So he gave us the option of not loving him, and our representatives Adam and Eve took it.
Antfarm maybe, but God cares about his ants. He was willing to be tortured so we don't have to.
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