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There is no god.
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Jonno Offline
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Post: #31
Re: There is no god.

He showed himself 2000 years ago, and we nailed him to a tree. If you are after him revealing himself to you, all you need to do is ask.

9 “So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

11 “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” (Luke 11:9-12 NIV)

Ask God to show you himself, and be sincere, and he will. I can't promise when he will, but he will if you mean it.
01-20-2011 12:28 PM
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Absnt Offline
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Post: #32
Re: There is no god.

Tried that a while ago, still waiting. Unless my bed shaking at night and creeping me out making me question my sanity is "showing himself"... Laugh

(I'm pretty fucking sure I'm just insane...)

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01-20-2011 12:30 PM
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Jonno Offline
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Post: #33
Re: There is no god.

lol. Generally when God shows himself there isn't any question about whether it was him or not. I'd say keep asking, and do what I suggested in the other thread. Read the bible, do some historical study, and find out for yourself whether all this hype about Jesus has anything to it. God only has 3 answers to prayers: Yes, No and Later. From what we saw above, he'll never say no to anyone who asks for faith. So he will show you eventually. Maybe this is his way of showing you. But do find out for yourself.
01-20-2011 12:35 PM
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Absnt Offline
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Post: #34
Re: There is no god.

Absentinsomniac Wrote:I was raised in a Christian household and I've been through the bible a million and one times. I'll probably study it again, if for nothing else it's historical significance in the future though.

I've tested the religion, and I can honestly say that science has proven itself a million times stronger and more rational than Christianity or any other religion. Maybe I'll be proved wrong during the apocalypse, or I'll change my mind due to some missed facts, although that's doubtful....

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01-20-2011 12:43 PM
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Jonno Offline
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Post: #35
Re: There is no god.

What makes you think science and Christianity are mutually exclusive?
01-20-2011 12:45 PM
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Absnt Offline
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Post: #36
Re: There is no god.

I've thought about that a lot. It's possible that a god put all of the scientific occurrences we have observed in motion, however, I don't see any proof.

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01-20-2011 12:50 PM
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Jonno Offline
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Post: #37
Re: There is no god.

I'd look for proof in history rather than in science. Science depends on results observed from repeated experiments, which is kinda hard to apply to God. But God came into history to save us, and it's easy enough to prove that.
01-20-2011 12:53 PM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #38
Re: There is no god.

Sasayaki Wrote:Sinning is deliberately turning your back on God which you do when you don't do what he asks you to.
1. I don't know this "god", I'm not in a relationship with him, so what the fuck is he doing asking me favors.
2. The favors he's allegedly asking are fucking retarded. I'm turning my back on god by masturbating? It doesn't affect him! It doesn't hurt him. He should butt the fuck out and mind his own business.

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
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01-20-2011 04:27 PM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #39
Re: There is no god.

Jonno Wrote:Show me the verse that tells us to physically abuse children.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/s ... nting.html

Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. -- Proverbs 23:13-14

Quote:Lets assume for a minute that I'm right.
No.

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
01-20-2011 04:40 PM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #40
Re: There is no god.

Jonno Wrote:God cares about his ants. He was willing to torture himself for a few days instead of torturing us for eternity.
Which just proves that he's insane because he could have just not tortured anybody.

He, the faerie-tale character. I'm not saying this "god" is a real person.

Also, I fixed your sentence for you.

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
01-20-2011 04:42 PM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #41
Re: There is no god.

Jonno Wrote:I'd look for proof in history rather than in science. Science depends on results observed from repeated experiments, which is kinda hard to apply to God. But God came into history to save us, and it's easy enough to prove that.
uuuuuuuuuuhn. Then why hasn't anyone done it?

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
01-20-2011 04:44 PM
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psychopath Offline
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Post: #42
Re: There is no god.

Jonno Wrote:Ask God to show you himself, and be sincere, and he will. I can't promise when he will, but he will if you mean it.

Are you serious? LOL.

How do you know he will show himself? Ok what is more likely, the power of myth, legend and delusion or some extremely powerful, invisible being that sits on the clouds and tells us what we can and can not do? The burden of proof is on you, and stories and myths aren't proof. Even if these myths were "true", I'd bet that god and angels are more likely to be aliens than supernatural.

Think for a moment why you hold the belief that god is real. Is it likely that he is real? Seriously think logically about it, did you really come to the logical conclusion that god is real, or did your parents raise you this way and you accepted those beliefs?
01-20-2011 06:11 PM
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Jonno Offline
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Post: #43
Re: There is no god.

Alrighty, lets get started.

Rilian, God made us, and has all authority over us. And masturbating isn't a sin. Many churches would like to think that, but this belief isn't based on the bible at all. That verse about disciplining children is about just that, disciplining them. Abuse =/= discipline. And there is speculation that is isn't a rod as in hurting them but a shepherds rod, which corrects sheep and breaks the legs of wolves, but doesn't hurt the sheep.

God has to punish us for our sin. He has to be just and righteous and punish sin. To do anything but this would be unrighteous and unjust, and therefore God wouldn't be perfect, and therefore not God.

People have done it. Have a look at Mark Driscoll, or the Christ Files.

Psychopath, I came to the logical conclusion that God is real. I'm lucky enough to have Christian parents, but the guy sitting next to me right now doesn't. He wasn't influenced by his parents at all, and I didn't believe until I was 11. Plenty of people who aren't really Christians just do it for the sake of their parents, but that isn't the case here.
01-20-2011 08:06 PM
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psychopath Offline
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Post: #44
Re: There is no god.

What is your argument for the existence of god? Not saying you have to have one, just that making all these claims mean nothing without a logical argument behind it
01-20-2011 08:10 PM
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Jonno Offline
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Post: #45
Re: There is no god.

My argument is all the historical evidence for Jesus' resurrection, as well as the hundreds of prophecies that he fulfilled. But mostly I'm just trying to defeat others' arguments against God.
01-20-2011 09:42 PM
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Faby Offline
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Post: #46
Re: There is no god.

There is no god.

Let go of all desire for the common good, and the good becomes common as grass.

~~

Good fortune follows upon disaster;
Disaster lurks within good fortune;
Who can say how things will end?
Perhaps there is no end.
01-20-2011 10:08 PM
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psychopath Offline
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Post: #47
Re: There is no god.

Jonno Wrote:My argument is all the historical evidence for Jesus' resurrection,

That is not an argument. Give me a set of premises and then conclude it from that. Show me your historical evidence, and show me how it leads to the conclusion that god is real. Spell it out in a very objective way. If there is real evidence for god then you should have no problem doing it.

Quote:as well as the hundreds of prophecies that he fulfilled.

Also needs to be proven.

if you can show me with undeniable logic that god is real and I can't find any loopholes, I will believe you.
01-20-2011 10:39 PM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #48
Re: There is no god.

Jonno Wrote:Rilian, God made us, and has all authority over us.
No. Even if "god" did make us, that still does not grant him authority. We own ourselves, we are conscious beings, we are obligated to no one but ourselves.

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
01-21-2011 04:28 AM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #49
Re: There is no god.

Jonno Wrote:That verse about disciplining children is about just that, disciplining them. Abuse =/= discipline.
Thou shalt beat him. BEAT.

Quote:God has to punish us for our sin.
No, he doesn't. Punishment is immoral. Saying he has to do something means he isn't omnipotent. And if he punishes, he is evil. I guess he could be perfectly evil.

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
01-21-2011 04:31 AM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #50
Re: There is no god.

Jonno Wrote:My argument is all the historical evidence for Jesus' resurrection,
Where is it?
Quote:as well as the hundreds of prophecies that he fulfilled.
What prophecies, and prove it.
Quote:But mostly I'm just trying to defeat others' arguments against God.
You're failing at it.

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
01-21-2011 04:32 AM
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Aya Offline
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Post: #51
Re: There is no god.

Prince Rilian Wrote:
Quote:But mostly I'm just trying to defeat others' arguments against God.
You're failing at it.

I don't know why, but his made me lol.
01-21-2011 05:53 AM
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HeartofShadows Offline
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Post: #52
Re: There is no god.

Prince Rillian I have to raise my sword to you in your crusade to destroy christian logic.

In before Oppressing our freedoms!

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01-21-2011 07:45 AM
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Jonno Offline
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Post: #53
Re: There is no god.

Rilian, I don't know what translation you are using, but the NIV says punish, not beat. I'll go and get the original meaning of the hebrew word if you like though. Also, God is omnipotent in the physical sense. He can't be irrational, or sinful. And justice is righteous. Everyone will get exactly what they deserve. I fail to see how that can possibly be evil.

We do not own ourselves. God designed every aspect of us. He made every atom in your body. He put it together in a way that results in you. I think complete conscious creation pretty much entails ownership.

For proof of the resurrection, have a look here. Also some nice stuff here, here, and here.

Really though, you won't believe any evidence I present. Go and do your own study and find out for yourself.
01-21-2011 09:33 AM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #54
Re: There is no god.

Jonno Wrote:Rilian, I don't know what translation you are using, but the NIV says punish, not beat.
Fuck the NIV. Regardless, all punishment is immoral.
Quote:I'll go and get the original meaning of the hebrew word if you like though.
K, do it. Bring sources.
Quote:Also, God is omnipotent in the physical sense.
So, he can make a rock so big that he can't lift it? That's physical.
Quote:He can't be irrational, or sinful. And justice is righteous. Everyone will get exactly what they deserve. I fail to see how that can possibly be evil.
Punishment is immoral. Punishment is just trying to coerce someone to agree with you or act the way you want them to, when the moral thing is rather to try to convince them that you are right by arguing your case.

Quote:God designed every aspect of us. He made every atom in your body. He put it together in a way that results in you. I think complete conscious creation pretty much entails ownership.
It doesn't.

Quote:For proof of the resurrection, have a look here. Also some nice stuff here, here, and here.
K, I'll put that on my to-do list.

Quote:Really though, you won't believe any evidence I present. Go and do your own study and find out for yourself.
I'm not gonna. I don't have any reason to even think this shit might be true, so I'm not going to go doing my own investigation. I'm not going to investigate santa claus or vampires that transform into bats or mermaids either.

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
01-21-2011 09:44 AM
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Jonno Offline
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Post: #55
Re: There is no god.

God making a rock so big he can't lift it is a paradox. Therefore irrational, therefore God can't.

Punishment is not the same as coercion. Sure, the fear of punishment can cause some people to act in a different way, but the punishment will be there even if it doesn't. Sociopath here will still be going to hell, even if he is glad of it. Not doing much good as coercion there. Punishment exists to give us what we deserve. We will receive perfect retribution for every wrong we have ever done.

From Strong's Hebrew Dictionary,

Quote:nakah
naw-kaw'

a primitive root; to strike (lightly or severely, literally or figuratively):--beat, cast forth, clap, give (wounds), X go forward, X indeed, kill, make (slaughter), murderer, punish, slaughter, slay(-er, -ing), smite(-r, -ing), strike, be stricken, (give) stripes, X surely, wound.

It really could be either. Still, I'm not opposed to physical discipline of children if the situation calls for it. If there is something vital the kid needs to learn, and nothing else works, I think that physical discipline is fine. Only ever as a last resort though, and never enough to actually cause injury.
01-21-2011 10:05 AM
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LOON_ATTIC Offline
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Post: #56
Re: There is no god.

Jesus loves you

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01-21-2011 10:32 AM
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Absnt Offline
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Post: #57
Re: There is no god.

The guys arguments are as follows:

1.) The bible is true because it references some things that we have proven are true through other documents.

2.) The bible says a couple of people saw Christ after he was killed.

lol?

Also:

Quote:We cannot rule out miracles because we have never personally witnessed one. In other words it is wrong to reason that a miracle cannot occur on logical grounds (by reason alone) because one has never seen one (something that can only be validated by experience).

I lol'd.


As for prophesies:

A disaster is going to happen in the year 2015. I bet you a dollar one will. Smile

Now I'm a god, right?. None

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01-21-2011 10:37 AM
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Jonno Offline
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Post: #58
Re: There is no god.

There's just a few more than that, and a bit more specific. You know, the whole born of a virgin in Bethlehem from the house of Judah, the line of Jesse and David, will live in Nazareth, that his birth would be the trigger of a massacre of infant boys, that his mission would be taken to the gentiles, which has never happened before, that his mission would include miraculous healings, that he would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver, which would be used to buy a potters field, and then his disciples would be scattered.
01-21-2011 12:58 PM
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Sasayaki Offline
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Post: #59
Re: There is no god.

How is that everyone thought it was true enough to set back the year to one?
BC= Before Christ
AD= After Death
I don't know how many unbelieved gods with no historical proof you know that literally are so believed that they restart the counting system of the world.

A science proof for God is they've been trying forever with hypothesises and lab recreations of the first living cell yet they haven't made a living cell yet out of the elements and things that were available on Earth.

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01-21-2011 01:31 PM
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Post: #60
Re: There is no god.

Lunatic Wrote:Jesus loves you

But I think you're an asshole.


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01-21-2011 02:31 PM
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