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Cory · 05-30-2007 10:12 AM

My mom thinks that god can control everything. He chooses everything that happens. He can stop anything from happeneing. She believes that he is all-powerfull. So I ask her why he wanted 9/11 to occur, because God could have stopped it, he could have made the entire world be peacefull that day if he wanted to. She said that se didn't know why God would do that. I then asked her if she thought that 9/11 should have happened, and she said no. Then I asked her if God wanted it to happen, and she replied with a yes because he made it happen, instead of it not happening. So I told her that God wanted 9/11 to happen, and she didn;t want it to happen, so I concluded that she disagrees with God. So I asked her, "So, you disagree with God, then"? and she replies with a "No. I don't understand God's doings." So, I tell her that even if you don't understand something, and you know that you WILL understand it later,(when she dies) then t the moment you disagree. You disagree until it is explained. She says that it isn't all "Black and white".

So this turned into a fairly large argument, and we never agreed on anything. So I come to the intelligent people here, and ask you, "WHo do you think is right, and why?".

Dark Soul X · 05-30-2007 12:50 PM

coryboy6 Wrote:My mom thinks that god can control everything. He chooses everything that happens. He can stop anything from happeneing. She believes that he is all-powerfull. So I ask her why he wanted 9/11 to occur, because God could have stopped it, he could have made the entire world be peacefull that day if he wanted to. She said that se didn't know why God would do that. I then asked her if she thought that 9/11 should have happened, and she said no. Then I asked her if God wanted it to happen, and she replied with a yes because he made it happen, instead of it not happening. So I told her that God wanted 9/11 to happen, and she didn;t want it to happen, so I concluded that she disagrees with God. So I asked her, "So, you disagree with God, then"? and she replies with a "No. I don't understand God's doings." So, I tell her that even if you don't understand something, and you know that you WILL understand it later,(when she dies) then t the moment you disagree. You disagree until it is explained. She says that it isn't all "Black and white".

So this turned into a fairly large argument, and we never agreed on anything. So I come to the intelligent people here, and ask you, "WHo do you think is right, and why?".

I think you're right. You proved that she didn't agree with God, although she denied it later. They say that homosexuality is an abomination. If God didn't want gay people, he would have just prevented it, now wouldn't he?

05-30-2007 01:26 PM

Well, God doesn't exist so her argument is shit.

Dark Soul X · 05-30-2007 01:34 PM

Kirby Wrote:Well, God doesn't exist so her argument is shit.

What religion are you, or are you an atheist?

Eidolon · 05-30-2007 01:40 PM

Dark Soul X Wrote:I think you're right. You proved that she didn't agree with God, although she denied it later. They say that homosexuality is an abomination. If God didn't want gay people, he would have just prevented it, now wouldn't he?

I read in the King James version of the Bible that homosexuality is a punishment for unbelief, or something like that.

05-30-2007 01:43 PM

Dark Soul X Wrote:What religion are you, or are you an atheist?

Atheist.

...but a full explanation of my beliefs isn't going to happen this late at night.

Eidolon Wrote:I read in the King James version of the Bible that homosexuality is a punishment for unbelief, or something like that.

The Bible says it's only a sin to commit homosexual acts. If you're gay but resist temptation you're OK.

Dark Soul X · 05-30-2007 01:53 PM

Kirby Wrote:
Dark Soul X Wrote:What religion are you, or are you an atheist?
Atheist.

...but a full explanation of my beliefs isn't going to happen this late at night.

Eidolon Wrote:I read in the King James version of the Bible that homosexuality is a punishment for unbelief, or something like that.
The Bible says it's only a sin to commit homosexual acts. If you're gay but resist temptation you're OK.

But I keep my case. If he didn't want people to do gay stuff, he could have just prevented it from being possible.

Happy Camper · 05-30-2007 02:51 PM

Dark Soul X Wrote:
Kirby Wrote:
Dark Soul X Wrote:What religion are you, or are you an atheist?
Atheist.

...but a full explanation of my beliefs isn't going to happen this late at night.

Eidolon Wrote:I read in the King James version of the Bible that homosexuality is a punishment for unbelief, or something like that.
The Bible says it's only a sin to commit homosexual acts. If you're gay but resist temptation you're OK.

But I keep my case. If he didn't want people to do gay stuff, he could have just prevented it from being possible.

Well if you want to go searching for logic loopholes in the Bible it could help to get it right. God did not plant any seeds for sin...well, okay you could say he planted a tree I guess but he provided more than enough alternatives to that tree. The apple/temptation/fall of man/whatever is what opened up the whole can of worms.

A core element of christianity is that God has all the power in the world except for when it comes to our decision-making. I'm not going to bother playing devil's advocate and countering much tonight because I'm tired and stressed and I'm missing House.

Point blank, I don't understand the question. I hate who's right arguments. I disagree with your mom but I also think I disagree with you, assuming I understand you correctly. But by your own train of logic, until I understand your point, we're in disagreement.

Neither?

**SoulRiser** · 05-31-2007 02:39 AM

There's a difference between knowing that something needs to happen, and actually wanting it to happen.

I don't think either of you are 100% correct... but nobody has to win Smile

Cosbydaf · 05-31-2007 03:57 AM

This reminds me of the old question "If God loves everyone, why would he make Hell to begin with?"

Abandoning Ship · 05-31-2007 05:08 AM

BigWolf Wrote:I'd say I agree most with what Kirby said. I don't believe in the Judeo-Christian Monotheistic God of the Bible, and I'd tell her so.

Or I might use the ultimate rebuttal to any argument out there... "NO U."

That is going straight into my sig.

thoughtmaker · 05-31-2007 06:49 AM

here's my

. god must be a supreme asshole. if he can do anything, why couldn't he see into the future and see how badly we were going to fuck ourselves over on numerous occasions. why? because he was bored and wanted something to watch. he's just a kid burning ants with a magnifying glass, albeit, a very all-knowing powerful kid Laugh

Cory · 05-31-2007 10:52 AM

Haha, I didn't mean who is right about the religeon part at all. (But this is all quite interesting) I meant about the logic. I, myself, am Christian, but I certanly do not agree with everything in the bible. For example, te homosexuality part, I think that is total BS.

06-01-2007 09:20 AM

God is all powerful. (Premise)
God controls the world. (Premise)
Therefore, God initiates or stops all events. (From 1 & 2)
9/11 happened. (Premise)
God could have stopped 9/11. (From 3 & 4)
God allowed 9/11. (Corollary of 5)
Therefore, God wanted 9/11 to happen. (From 3 & 6)
Mother didn't want 9/11 to happen. (Premise)
Therefore, mother disagrees with God. (From 7 & 8)

Happy Camper · 06-01-2007 04:39 PM

Kirby Wrote:

God is all powerful. (Premise)

God controls the world. (Premise)

Therefore, God initiates or stops all events. (From 1 & 2)

9/11 happened. (Premise)

God could have stopped 9/11. (From 3 & 4)

God allowed 9/11. (Corollary of 5)

Therefore, God wanted 9/11 to happen. (From 3 & 6)

Mother didn't want 9/11 to happen. (Premise)

Therefore, mother disagrees with God. (From 7 & 8)

Because I like playing devil's advocate...

You can be all powerful, have the ability to control something, but intentionally not intervene. A large part of christianity is the concept that God gave us decision-making. That he did not fuck around with our conscious at all (that could very well be argued otherwise). So God doesn't control the world really. He could...and he intervenes from time to time. But I think most would agree the majority of the world is based on the actions of individual beings.

06-02-2007 02:48 AM

(That was just a summary of the argument not what I think.)

Happy Camper · 06-02-2007 04:38 AM

I figured as much.

HeartofShadows · 06-05-2007 02:29 PM

I hope your mom is right because I'am going to pray to god to give me 3 weeks off work with pay.

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