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Abortion Thoughts
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thewake Offline
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Post: #61
Re: Abortion Thoughts

therenagadeoffunk Wrote:yet again, embryo,tissue, though not a human, are you against vasectomys then? seeing as thats destroying half of what you need to create a human eh? it is human dna. how would you tell a woman" no honey i wont get a vacetomy, its sacrad human dna", shed boot your ass out in a minute. also, 6 billion people, to fucking many of them to support itsself, this helps, also what if it has defects, etc? ever thinka bout this. and whats wrong with destroying human life?
I would consider sperm along the lines of any other human cell, but a embroy has its own DNA. It is an idividual.
And adults and teenagers are made of tissue just as well as embryos. I guess nobody is human...
BobManPerson Wrote:Dogman, I'm pretty sure that the only reason you're an anti-abortion radical freak of nature is because your fuckng Bible commands you not to tolerate abortion.
Religion is NOT a justifiable excuse to force your beleifs upon others, no matter how much God wants you to.
Actually, I'm just trying to argue that a person of a certain age has the right to life. Of course, Christianity says "Thou shalt not kill.", so maybe I am. But the Declaration of Independence says we all have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

I don't see how an unborn child is any less human then me. Just like I don't see how a black man or a retard is any less human, and deserving of worse treatment, than me. The differences are only superficial.

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10-06-2008 05:52 AM
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Milk2Go Offline
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Post: #62
Re: Abortion Thoughts

dogman32 Wrote:I don't see how an unborn child is any less human then me.
A fetus is barely a human at all. It's missing a shitload of organs and can't move. It's missing the five senses. It can't think.

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10-06-2008 06:41 AM
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i-am-the-liquor Offline
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Post: #63
Re: Abortion Thoughts

dogman32 Wrote:
therenagadeoffunk Wrote:yet again, embryo,tissue, though not a human, are you against vasectomys then? seeing as thats destroying half of what you need to create a human eh? it is human dna. how would you tell a woman" no honey i wont get a vacetomy, its sacrad human dna", shed boot your ass out in a minute. also, 6 billion people, to fucking many of them to support itsself, this helps, also what if it has defects, etc? ever thinka bout this. and whats wrong with destroying human life?
I would consider sperm along the lines of any other human cell, but a embroy has its own DNA. It is an idividual.
And adults and teenagers are made of tissue just as well as embryos. I guess nobody is human...
BobManPerson Wrote:Dogman, I'm pretty sure that the only reason you're an anti-abortion radical freak of nature is because your fuckng Bible commands you not to tolerate abortion.
Religion is NOT a justifiable excuse to force your beleifs upon others, no matter how much God wants you to.
Actually, I'm just trying to argue that a person of a certain age has the right to life. Of course, Christianity says "Thou shalt not kill.", so maybe I am. But the Declaration of Independence says we all have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

I don't see how an unborn child is any less human then me. Just like I don't see how a black man or a retard is any less human, and deserving of worse treatment, than me. The differences are only superficial.

you are forgetting not everybody is an american, and it is not a child, its a embryo, diffrent terms, embryos have the mentel capacity as a cell on a eggplant, if that. humans dont have a right to live, persay, we create laws, but remember, this is a cluster ofcells wich has the same deffinition as cancer might i add, think about it. how does it feel to be natures fuck up?

I dont mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am,so thats how it comes out.- bill hicks
10-06-2008 06:43 AM
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thewake Offline
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Post: #64
Re: Abortion Thoughts

If I'm nature's fuck up I don't wanna be what you guys are.

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10-06-2008 02:48 PM
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i-am-the-liquor Offline
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Post: #65
Re: Abortion Thoughts

i mean genetically, we destroy everything, and we know we are going to die, we are natures fuck up. simple enough

I dont mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am,so thats how it comes out.- bill hicks
10-06-2008 03:23 PM
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thewake Offline
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Post: #66
Re: Abortion Thoughts

I'm proud to be nature's fuck up, nature's a bitchy mom anyhow.

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10-06-2008 04:00 PM
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dreamer... Offline
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Post: #67
Re: Abortion Thoughts

BobManPerson:
Apparently, you didn't read any of my previous post. I addressed pregnancy through rape: in my opinion, the child (fetus if you please) should be born and adopted. Of course the pregnancy will be traumatic on the mother. However, because I view abortion as essentially murder, I see the woman's pregnancy as the lesser of two evils. Yes, I understand why she may want to kill the unborn child. But a whole lifetime thrown away is worse, in my opinion, than nine months of suffering.

I also addressed the "religion" thing you complained to Wes about. Did you look at the link in my previous post (page 3)? It's a bunch of articles from atheistic and agnostic pro-lifers. Abortion is not just a religious issue. I know pro-choice Christians and pro-life agnostics. I oppose abortion because I think that even the unborn have some rights...one of them being the right to life. I don't oppose abortion because God "told me to." Like Wes said, you don't have to be religious to value human life.

Now that I think of it, pro-lifers and pro-choicers can never come to any compromise since their viewpoints depend solely on how they view the unborn. Pro-lifers say it's a child, a human being with all the natural rights people have. Pro-choicers say it's a cluster of cells that has no rights because it isn't developed enough.

I'm just curious, BobMan and Renagade, would you support legal abortions for 8-month-old fetuses? And SoulRiser, why do you think making abortion illegal is a bad idea?
10-07-2008 01:01 AM
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thewake Offline
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Post: #68
Re: Abortion Thoughts

Usually people who think abortion is bad but want it legal anyway say that people who really want abortions will get them anyway except in "clinics" that have horrible conditions.

I usually respond by saying something along these lines:
Oh? So if you want to do that why don't we have a nice place where murderers can kill their victims? I mean, they're going to do it anyway so why not make it legal and give them a place to do it so they don't get hurt?

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10-08-2008 02:27 AM
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the forgotten Offline
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Post: #69
Re: Abortion Thoughts

I'll address the reasons to keep marriage legal. Okay, before Roe v. Wade, there were back alley abortions where mother and baby died, that means twice as many deaths.

Dance, when you're broken up.
Dance, if you've torn the bandage off.
Dance in the middle of the fighting.
Dance in your blood.
Dance, when you're perfectly free.
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10-08-2008 09:50 AM
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Milk2Go Offline
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Post: #70
Re: Abortion Thoughts

Imagine this:
You are a girl. Your doctor has told you you have a life-threatening condition where you will die during childbirth (don't tell me that doesn't exist; my mother has that condition). You follow that rule and live a life of celibacy, but one day, you get raped and you are pregnant. You try to find a way to get an abortion, but it has been made illegal. Within nine months, both you and your baby die.
10-13-2008 03:52 AM
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John Tuttle Offline
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Post: #71
Re: Abortion Thoughts

BobManPerson Wrote:Imagine this:
You are a girl. Your doctor has told you you have a life-threatening condition where you will die during childbirth (don't tell me that doesn't exist; my mother has that condition). You follow that rule and live a life of celibacy, but one day, you get raped and you are pregnant. You try to find a way to get an abortion, but it has been made illegal. Within nine months, both you and your baby die.
Wow. Good Point. You just owned the arguement.

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10-13-2008 08:46 AM
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thewake Offline
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Post: #72
Re: Abortion Thoughts

the forgotten Wrote:I'll address the reasons to keep marriage legal. Okay, before Roe v. Wade, there were back alley abortions where mother and baby died, that means twice as many deaths.
So why don't we just have nice legalized murder halls too! I mean, people are going to murder each other anyway so why don't we just make sure the murderers don't get hurt.

I think the mother deserves it in that case, personally. I'm not going to sugar coat my opinions.

Bobmanunlikelypants Wrote:Imagine this:
You are a girl. Your doctor has told you you have a life-threatening condition where you will die during childbirth (don't tell me that doesn't exist; my mother has that condition). You follow that rule and live a life of celibacy, but one day, you get raped and you are pregnant. You try to find a way to get an abortion, but it has been made illegal. Within nine months, both you and your baby die.
I think that's a totally different issue where the mother's life is in danger. I think abortion could be allowed in that case.

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10-13-2008 10:10 AM
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i-am-the-liquor Offline
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Post: #73
Re: Abortion Thoughts

Laugh , logical fallacys w-dog

I dont mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am,so thats how it comes out.- bill hicks
10-13-2008 10:15 AM
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thewake Offline
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Post: #74
Re: Abortion Thoughts

How so?
I'm just making a comparison to what I see as two breeds of the same species:
Murder and abortion.

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10-13-2008 10:17 AM
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i-am-the-liquor Offline
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Post: #75
Re: Abortion Thoughts

but, youve made it seem that they are one in the same.therefore logical fallacy

" oh its murder, always murder...except for this"

gtfo of here and take a health class.

I dont mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am,so thats how it comes out.- bill hicks
10-13-2008 10:25 AM
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thewake Offline
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Post: #76
Re: Abortion Thoughts

That's really nice 26.

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10-13-2008 10:30 AM
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dreamer... Offline
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Post: #77
Re: Abortion Thoughts

W-Dog32 Wrote:Usually people who think abortion is bad but want it legal anyway say that people who really want abortions will get them anyway except in "clinics" that have horrible conditions.

I usually respond by saying something along these lines:
Oh? So if you want to do that why don't we have a nice place where murderers can kill their victims? I mean, they're going to do it anyway so why not make it legal and give them a place to do it so they don't get hurt?
Great rebuttal!

Okay, I thought of an analogy today...it might not be physically possible, but bear with me, I'm talking hypothetical. Say there's a pair of Siamese twins. They are conjoined in a such a way that, if separated, Twin 1 will survive, but Twin 2 will die. The twins are two different people except for the fact that their bodies are connected...and Twin 2 is dependent upon Twin 1 for survival. Now, Twin 1 decides he's tired of being conjoined to his brother 24/7. He wants a surgery to separate his body from his twin's. If he is allowed to get the surgery, Twin 2 will die. Twin 2 is human, although his body is not fully developed. Should Twin 1 be permitted to have the surgery?
10-23-2008 11:22 AM
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.xstrike-anywherex. Offline
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Post: #78
Re: Abortion Thoughts

There's already an analogy like that called "the violinist", where someone would ask you to attach yourself to a fully developed and presumably good human being for 9 months so he can live.

Step into my twisted reality

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10-23-2008 01:40 PM
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Ahab Offline
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Post: #79
Re: Abortion Thoughts

Really, I'm not for abortion personally, but politically im fine with anything up to third trimester, theyre not born yet but close enough that bureaucracy takes hold anyways.

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10-23-2008 02:26 PM
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Dragon4Anarchy Offline
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Post: #80
Re: Abortion Thoughts

Again, couldn't be arsed to read more than the first page, soe here's my 2 cents: It's the womans body, it doesn't matter what moral qualms anyone has with it she may do as she wishes with her own body and the growth inside which is attached and a part of her and her DNA. Abortion is not under any cirumstances murder, and blowing up abortion clinics is wrong, THAT is murder and terrorism.

Aside from that, I'm not to comfortable with abortion conceptually, but I recognise that no one has the right to stop it.
10-24-2008 04:48 AM
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Liquid Offline
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Post: #81
Re: Abortion Thoughts

Dragon4Anarchy Wrote:here's my 2 cents: It's the womans body, it doesn't matter what moral qualms anyone has with it she may do as she wishes with her own body and the growth inside which is attached and a part of her and her DNA.

Well, every person has different DNA, DNA does not change durring a persons lifetime, an unborn person has their own DNA not their mother's.

An unborn person is not just a "growth",they basicly like parsites, they have thier own body, with it's own brain, nervus system, digestion system, musels and movement, hell it even has reproductive organs, it can't talk but it can be happy and sad, it's been proven that it can cry even in the early stages, and it can feel pain.

It's more like a leech than a human, but like it or not, it's just as human as you or me.

We like to take our best qualities and say that that's what defines what "human" means: Kindness, able to identify with others, not cruel to others or to animals, tool-maker, great intelect, top of the food chain. --- This view of "human" is wrong.

- The mentaly disabled are just as human as we are.
- Einstein was just as human as we are.
- Hitler was just as human as we are.
- Every person is just as human as we are.
- Every unborn person is just as human as we are.
- Hell, even teachers are just as human as we are.

There's no way to be "less human", only the Nazis, abortionists, racists, and the Supreme Court have said otherwise.

Dragon4Anarchy Wrote:no one has the right to stop it.
If you had the power to stop someone from being murdered would you have the right NOT to stop it?

//

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10-24-2008 08:57 AM
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thewake Offline
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Post: #82
Re: Abortion Thoughts

Dragon4Anarchy Wrote:blowing up abortion clinics is wrong, THAT is murder and terrorism.
I totally agree, two wrongs don't make a right.

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10-24-2008 10:15 AM
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Dragon4Anarchy Offline
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Post: #83
Re: Abortion Thoughts

Quote:If you had the power to stop someone from being murdered would you have the right NOT to stop it?


Listen very carefully, ABORTION IS NOT MURDER, THE WOMAN HAS THE RIGHT TO EXPELL SOMETHING FROM HER OWN BODY AND NO ONE CAN TELL HER SHE CAN'T, END OF FUCKING STORY.
10-25-2008 02:49 AM
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TheDelinquent Offline
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Post: #84
Re: Abortion Thoughts

What's the difference between a woman getting a last minute abortion without the father's consent/knowledge, and the father drugging that woman into unconsciousness, having the abortion performed on her, and then having the woman wake up otherwise unharmed? Assuming that in each case one wanted the abortion, the other didn't.
I believe there is a point at which nonthinking matter becomes thinking matter, and it happens sometime during the 9-months before a person is born. It is NOT "her body her choice", it's "our baby her responsibility". Don't get me wrong. I'm pro-choice, but only up 'till the end of the second trimester. There's no excuse for waiting that long. Since most abortions (upwards of 95%) occur in the first two trimesters, I'm pro-choice.
However, I am not an advocate of the myth that babies hold a seperate moral status after exiting the womb than they did while they were in it. We don't call them babies while they're in it (at least not we pro-choicers) but we don't call meteors meteorites until they've fallen. It doesn't change what they're made of.
There is, whether we have discovered it yet or not, a point at which a fetus can think and feel and want and suffer. If it has reached that point when a mother kills it, that mother is in my opinion, a murderer.
If it hasn't, she's as innocent as her newborn baby would have looked.

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10-25-2008 02:32 PM
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PunchingYou Offline
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Post: #85
Re: Abortion Thoughts

im not a girl so why the hell would i care about abortion

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10-30-2008 11:07 AM
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Milk2Go Offline
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Post: #86
Re: Abortion Thoughts

Dragon4Anarchy Wrote:Listen very carefully, ABORTION IS NOT MURDER, THE WOMAN HAS THE RIGHT TO EXPELL SOMETHING FROM HER OWN BODY AND NO ONE CAN TELL HER SHE CAN'T, END OF FUCKING STORY.
Win.
11-02-2008 09:47 AM
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Liquid Offline
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Post: #87
Re: Abortion Thoughts

Quote:Listen very carefully, ABORTION IS NOT MURDER, THE WOMAN HAS THE RIGHT TO EXPELL SOMETHING FROM HER OWN BODY AND NO ONE CAN TELL HER SHE CAN'T, END OF FUCKING STORY.

Even if it infringes on the rights of someone else? Rights such as: LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

//

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11-05-2008 05:26 AM
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Avenger Offline
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Post: #88
Re: Abortion Thoughts

Liquid Wrote:
Quote:Listen very carefully, ABORTION IS NOT MURDER, THE WOMAN HAS THE RIGHT TO EXPELL SOMETHING FROM HER OWN BODY AND NO ONE CAN TELL HER SHE CAN'T, END OF FUCKING STORY.

Even if it infringes on the rights of someone else? Rights such as: LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?
how the fuck could you pursue happiness if your mother wanted you aborted,but had to have you anyways.

Telling people to do something without giving a reason compels them to rebel not to obey-Avenger

We need to learn not to be afraid of making mistakes all the time-Avenger

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11-05-2008 05:36 AM
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Re:

PIMP. Wrote:Pick a side and fight. Are you for abortion or against?

That's a little black and white, there was a gray area of understanding presented in the first post; there can be people who are pro - choice but understand the POV of pro - life people, and vice versa. I see that pro - life people want to save what they find lives, but I have my own positions on what the state should define as "life", though I guess a lot of people with opinions on this issue would fall somewhat within that gray area.

Because I dig you, like Aussies dig pies, like Born-Agains dig Jesus, like Jesus dug guys.
11-10-2008 08:01 AM
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Post: #90
Re: Abortion Thoughts

PunchingYou Wrote:im not a girl so why the hell would i care about abortion

what if it was your kid?

Hidden stuff:
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11-10-2008 08:05 AM
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