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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

-SoulRiser

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If children and parents could legally do to each other...
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thewake Offline
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Post: #31
 

I think it's horrible. your child isn't an extension of you, it's its own person. I don't get how you think that. I don't get how you could even think of letting a parent abuse their child. This whole conversation is nonsensical and makes me lose faith in thinking that any person has basic morals.

Crazy. Crazy. Crazy.

If you want me to explain to you why I think this, ask. Anybody's welcome.

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08-04-2007 10:28 AM
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KittyKatBlack Offline
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Post: #32
 

Weswammy Wrote:I think it's horrible. your child isn't an extension of you, it's its own person. I don't get how you think that. I don't get how you could even think of letting a parent abuse their child. This whole conversation is nonsensical and makes me lose faith in thinking that any person has basic morals.

Crazy. Crazy. Crazy.

If you want me to explain to you why I think this, ask. Anybody's welcome.
I think most people would agree with you.
08-04-2007 10:29 AM
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Cosbydaf Offline
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Post: #33
 

LittleFreak14 Wrote:(Damn quote pyramids)
Killing your kid is retarded, and I second Kirby's statement.
This entire conversation is retarded.

Quoted for truth!
08-04-2007 10:31 AM
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Will Offline
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Post: #34
 

I'm going to stop trying to explain this on the forum.
08-04-2007 10:37 AM
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WildFire Offline
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Post: #35
 

it takes a while, apparently, for us to comprend this kind of stuff. Either we do and go crazy, or dont and create pointless quote pyramids.

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08-04-2007 10:40 AM
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Suicidal-kun Offline
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Post: #36
 

KittyKatBlack Wrote:
Weswammy Wrote:I think it's horrible. your child isn't an extension of you, it's its own person. I don't get how you think that. I don't get how you could even think of letting a parent abuse their child. This whole conversation is nonsensical and makes me lose faith in thinking that any person has basic morals.

Crazy. Crazy. Crazy.

If you want me to explain to you why I think this, ask. Anybody's welcome.
I think most people would agree with you.
I do, and I've basically been saying that the whole time.
08-04-2007 10:47 AM
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youvebeenthunderstruck Offline
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Post: #37
 

Pyro Wrote:it takes a while, apparently, for us to comprend this kind of stuff. Either we do and go crazy, or dont and create pointless quote pyramids.

No we don't!
08-04-2007 11:19 AM
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Dark Soul X Offline
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Post: #38
 

Cosbydaf Wrote:
LittleFreak14 Wrote:(Damn quote pyramids)
Killing your kid is retarded, and I second Kirby's statement.
This entire conversation is retarded.

Quoted for truth!

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08-04-2007 12:15 PM
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Post: #39
 

wsgosset Wrote:I'm going to stop trying to explain this on the forum.
We understand, we just don't agree. You are looking at it from naive utilitarianism whereas we see it from rights and duties.
08-04-2007 02:25 PM
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Will Offline
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Post: #40
 

Kirby Wrote:
wsgosset Wrote:I'm going to stop trying to explain this on the forum.
We understand, we just don't agree. You are looking at it from naive utilitarianism whereas we see it from rights and duties.
Partly for that reason, we would need more rapid exchanges in order to have a useful conversation on this--chat of some sort.
08-04-2007 02:27 PM
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Oh, and by "naive utilitarianism" I don't mean anything offensive. I just realized I don't know WTF that means.
08-04-2007 02:41 PM
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Darthmat Offline
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Post: #42
 

Laugh

I highly suggest Mobb Deep's albums The Infamous and Hell on Earth, if you have not listened to it yet.
08-06-2007 06:20 AM
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Dark Soul X Offline
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Post: #43
 

Kirby Wrote:Oh, and by "naive utilitarianism" I don't mean anything offensive. I just realized I don't know WTF that means.

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08-06-2007 12:03 PM
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starfish Offline
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Post: #44
 

I think he's looking at it from a hard core survival of the fittest view point. Let the rules of the jungle reign. And if that's how you feel, move to a secluded tribe in africa cause I think that's still how some of them live. It's taken western society thousands of years to evolve past that, and it ain't gonna change anytime soon. I think you just want a reason to be able to kill you parents...ARE THEY THAT BAD?
10-11-2007 01:23 AM
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Will Offline
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Post: #45
 

starfish Wrote:I think he's looking at it from a hard core survival of the fittest view point. Let the rules of the jungle reign. And if that's how you feel, move to a secluded tribe in africa cause I think that's still how some of them live. It's taken western society thousands of years to evolve past that, and it ain't gonna change anytime soon. I think you just want a reason to be able to kill you parents...ARE THEY THAT BAD?
If killing them were the only way of getting away from them, I would probably kill them. They aren't so bad as Hitler probably, but that if they are making me unhappy, I want to get away from them.

But I'm partly looking at this just practically. When is a child considered separate from his parents?
10-11-2007 07:04 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #46
 

Quote:When is a child considered separate from his parents?

Technically, as soon as they snip the umbilical cord.

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10-11-2007 07:59 AM
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Will Offline
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Post: #47
 

SoulRiser Wrote:
Quote:When is a child considered separate from his parents?

Technically, as soon as they snip the umbilical cord.
So they're considered separate, but the parent still has some responsibility for the child. Then they're really not separate.
10-11-2007 09:45 AM
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Evasion Offline
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Post: #48
 

According to the law (here) I am not able to make any important decisions about my life until I'm 18. Someone making the laws seems to know more about me, than I do.

“When an individual is protesting society's refusal to acknowledge his dignity as a human being, his very act of protest confers dignity on him.”
10-11-2007 10:05 AM
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Thought Criminal Offline
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Post: #49
 

so sad yet so very true Noo
10-11-2007 10:07 AM
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starfish Offline
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Evasion Wrote:According to the law (here) I am not able to make any important decisions about my life until I'm 18. Someone making the laws seems to know more about me, than I do.


lol yep. I have the maturity to vote for my countries leader, star in a porno, go oversead and kill people in the army, live by myself, work full time, but I am certainly a year to young to go have a drink with my friends.
10-12-2007 02:11 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #51
 

Quote:So they're considered separate, but the parent still has some responsibility for the child. Then they're really not separate.

True. Unfortunately, people aren't like deer, they don't just get up and walk away as soon as they pop out of their mother Razz

So if you don't want that kind of responsibility, don't have children.

"If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them." - Dalai Lama
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10-12-2007 04:35 AM
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modest mouse Offline
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Post: #52
 

Student Wrote:
darthmat Wrote:what's different between a regular murder and one of a child? it is still murder.
Should the government be able to restrict what you can do to something that came out of a hole in your body? Perhaps there should be rules about where it can be dumped just for sanitation reasons, but there shouldn't be rules preventing you from throwing it out.

Yeah.
But those "extensions" are another human being.

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10-12-2007 05:46 AM
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Will Offline
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Post: #53
 

SoulRiser Wrote:
Quote:So they're considered separate, but the parent still has some responsibility for the child. Then they're really not separate.

True. Unfortunately, people aren't like deer, they don't just get up and walk away as soon as they pop out of their mother Razz

So if you don't want that kind of responsibility, don't have children.
Parents do have that responsibility, but it doesn't need to be enforced legally.
10-12-2007 06:37 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #54
 

Quote:Parents do have that responsibility, but it doesn't need to be enforced legally.

You mean parents are legally forced to take care of their kids? I'm not aware of laws about that. If there are any, I agree that's not necessary. If you wanted them, you'll care enough to feed them. If you didn't want them, that's what adoption centers are for.

"If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them." - Dalai Lama
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10-13-2007 06:14 AM
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Trekkie_Aspie Offline
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Post: #55
 

SoulRiser Wrote:
Quote:Parents do have that responsibility, but it doesn't need to be enforced legally.

You mean parents are legally forced to take care of their kids? I'm not aware of laws about that. If there are any, I agree that's not necessary. If you wanted them, you'll care enough to feed them. If you didn't want them, that's what adoption centers are for.


I think he's on about the under 10 = you're responsible for them type laws.

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stupid article
10-13-2007 07:29 AM
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Teini Offline
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Post: #56
RE: If children and parents could legally do to each other...

Do anything to each other? So making things like sexual abuse okay? Confused
My first thought when I read the thread title and first post.
03-03-2012 04:44 PM
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