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I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

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Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

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Students should be encoraged not punished
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Phillip Offline
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Post: #1
Students should be encoraged not punished

Short little rant here


Does anyone else here get/got the whole ''If you don't get a good grade on your test your in big trouble'' from your parents or ''If you don't finish this work on time you will have detention'' from teachers? I really disagree with this because i think that kids shouldn't be learning out of fear, cause if kids are afraid of not doing well in school just because their afraid of being punished then something's wrong

You should be learning things because it's fun not because your afraid of getting punished
08-09-2007 03:11 AM
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Suicidal-kun Offline
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Yeah my dad says that to me all the time, and it does get really annoying.
08-09-2007 03:15 AM
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Will Offline
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Alfie Kohn has written a lot about this. Essentially, he has found through scientific studies that in all cases punishments and rewards only work in the short term.
08-09-2007 03:28 AM
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thewake Offline
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That's all schools care about. If you do good on the standardized test at the end of the year, then they get more funding and they could care less if you remember it when your 21 and need the knowledge.

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08-09-2007 03:34 AM
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KittyKatBlack Offline
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The first time I got a D on my report card my mom screamed and told me something was wrong with me. After that I didn't give a shit about my grades, I just wanted to hurt that bitch.
08-09-2007 03:59 AM
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thewake Offline
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It's someone's scale of how good you are. Personally, I think human achievement can't measured by letters or numbers, percents or grades. But how accomplished that person feels when done or how many people are helped.

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08-09-2007 04:34 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #7
 

Encouraging is better, yes, but you should also not overdo it. Then the kid might end up doing things just for the rewards Razz

(I think Alfie Kohn also probably said that, I can't remember though)

Really, people should just do stuff for their own reasons, not for anyone else's.

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08-09-2007 07:03 AM
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Suicidal-kun Offline
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SoulRiser Wrote:Encouraging is better, yes, but you should also not overdo it. Then the kid might end up doing things just for the rewards Razz

(I think Alfie Kohn also probably said that, I can't remember though)

Really, people should just do stuff for their own reasons, not for anyone else's.
I agree, you should do things for yourself.
08-09-2007 07:27 AM
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udontmatter Offline
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KittyKatBlack Wrote:The first time I got a D on my report card my mom screamed and told me something was wrong with me. After that I didn't give a shit about my grades, I just wanted to hurt that bitch.

someone has mommy isues

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08-09-2007 07:34 AM
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Freak Offline
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Actually the threat system interferes with what a lot of my teachers wanted us to do. Like we had these big science projects, and we would pick so many activities that added up to a certain number of points. The whole project revolved around doing the owrk independantly.
This would have worked for me, except I hve problems of stating a correct answer, but the correct answer they wanted.
So I would go up to the teacher "How do I do this?" "Am I doing this right?" Cause I knew damn well I was going to fuck up some how.
And he told me, "Amber, this is an independant project, your its a drawing a the interior of a volcano, its not hard."
"Yes, but what if I don't get all the labels you want? Or not the RIGHT ones?"
See, the original threat system that was put to good use scaring the shit outta kids when they're parents found out they had bad marks was directly causing in ACTUAL FREE LEARNING. Good learning.
(I always like those projects, but it takes me a while to get used to school(thats why my grades are shitty 1st quarter, better 2ed, great 3ed, and excellent 4th) and my teacher thought I just procrastinated on them like hell. But I really didn't, what I did was (I had LOTS of work, this was from like Nov-feb. that I woould have to stay up all night and only get half my work finished, it happened a little later around the end of school, but I was getting quite used to the first time so...) yeah, I just tried to do things in the order they were due. That didn't help either, I guess it took my a really long time to do all that shit. I mean we had homework everyday from all my classes. Cept usually lit, but that changed at the end of the year) God, so fucking tiring....

Well, my point. The threat system is casuing them problems.

Oh, just so you know. All my teachers hated the idea of having stan. tests. This was the second year LMS failed, so we have like a 60k budget cut. D:<
(Side note, I don;t get your guyses problems with stand. tests, I mean just as long as they don't force your teachers to only teach whats ON the teast then.... oh, and I pwn those bitchez every time, too) Giggle
But thats because I work best when my work is short, sweet and to the point. Not to mention theres no talking and we take it for one week, and only like an hour or two a day.
Oh, and lots, and LOTS of lemon drops.

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08-09-2007 07:46 AM
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Suicidal-kun Offline
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I don't really care about stand. testing, I just get really annoyed that my dad always bitches and threatens to take my shit away if I do bad in school even when I'm getting really good grades.
08-09-2007 07:52 AM
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Darthmat Offline
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Post: #12
 

I am more motivated by rewards than threats.

And if people say 'kids need to be punished to learn about consequences' it is a punishemnt to watch all of thier classmates eat a chocolate bar and them not get any b/c of behaving bad.

That's how it works in teh real word to. In a job iff you do good, you get a raise or good pay. You do bad and it stays the same if you don't get fired.

I highly suggest Mobb Deep's albums The Infamous and Hell on Earth, if you have not listened to it yet.
08-09-2007 08:25 AM
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Suicidal-kun Offline
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darthmat Wrote:I am more motivated by rewards than threats.

And if people say 'kids need to be punished to learn about consequences' it is a punishemnt to watch all of thier classmates eat a chocolate bar and them not get any b/c of behaving bad.

That's how it works in teh real word to. In a job iff you do good, you get a raise or good pay. You do bad and it stays the same if you don't get fired.
Eh, that's one way of looking at it.
08-09-2007 08:39 AM
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Eidolon Away
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My problem with standardized tests is that they dedicate a whole day to the tests, and then don't let me leave when I'm done.
I end up just sitting for 5 hours.

...It's not fun. Noo
08-09-2007 09:02 AM
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Suicidal-kun Offline
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Eidolon Wrote:My problem with standardized tests is that they dedicate a whole day to the tests, and then don't let me leave when I'm done.
I end up just sitting for 5 hours.

...It's not fun. Noo
It doesn't really bother me, infact I kind of like it. We get half day for two weeks and when I finish(which is fast) I get to sleep.
08-09-2007 09:03 AM
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Darthmat Offline
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Eidolon Wrote:My problem with standardized tests is that they dedicate a whole day to the tests, and then don't let me leave when I'm done.
I end up just sitting for 5 hours.

...It's not fun. Noo
book. ipod.

I highly suggest Mobb Deep's albums The Infamous and Hell on Earth, if you have not listened to it yet.
08-09-2007 09:05 AM
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Eidolon Away
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darthmat Wrote:
Eidolon Wrote:My problem with standardized tests is that they dedicate a whole day to the tests, and then don't let me leave when I'm done.
I end up just sitting for 5 hours.

...It's not fun. Noo
book. ipod.

Not allowed in the "testing area."
08-09-2007 10:11 AM
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Suicidal-kun Offline
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Eidolon Wrote:
darthmat Wrote:
Eidolon Wrote:My problem with standardized tests is that they dedicate a whole day to the tests, and then don't let me leave when I'm done.
I end up just sitting for 5 hours.

...It's not fun. Noo
book. ipod.

Not allowed in the "testing area."
Books aren't allowed? Then why don't you just sleep when you finish?
08-09-2007 10:16 AM
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thoughtmaker Offline
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i think both are bad. threats make learning seem like a chore, and rewards make it seem like it's only worth doing because you're getting something out of it (not just learning for the sake of learning). i read a psychology book once that said if you reward someone for a certain behavior, even if the person enjoys doing it, it will seem to that person that that action is less attractive, because like a threat, it makes the mind think "hey, i wouldn't be doing this if i weren't being rewarded for it."
08-09-2007 05:26 PM
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Darthmat Offline
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How can a school possibly function without threats or reawrds???

I highly suggest Mobb Deep's albums The Infamous and Hell on Earth, if you have not listened to it yet.
08-09-2007 08:07 PM
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Suicidal-kun Offline
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darthmat Wrote:How can a school possibly function without threats or reawrds???
Teach things that the kids actually want to learn.
08-10-2007 03:13 AM
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Ahab Offline
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The problem is that students are treated more like pets that make some money than clients who want to fufill certain needs. This is why shit such as punishment happens, because we get treated like pets.
08-10-2007 03:32 AM
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Suicidal-kun Offline
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Zappa Wrote:The problem is that students are treated more like pets that make some money than clients who want to fufill certain needs. This is why shit such as punishment happens, because we get treated like pets.
This is actually kind of true, that's why we have a reward/punishment system like pets. If we do good then we get a treat, if we do bad we get smacked with the paper in a sense, its such bullshit. Noo
08-10-2007 03:52 AM
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Darthmat Offline
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Suicidal-kun Wrote:
darthmat Wrote:How can a school possibly function without threats or reawrds???
Teach things that the kids actually want to learn.
Noawadays you have to know how to read and write to make alot of money, and most kids don't want to learn how to do those.

I highly suggest Mobb Deep's albums The Infamous and Hell on Earth, if you have not listened to it yet.
08-10-2007 12:31 PM
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Suicidal-kun Offline
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darthmat Wrote:
Suicidal-kun Wrote:
darthmat Wrote:How can a school possibly function without threats or reawrds???
Teach things that the kids actually want to learn.
Noawadays you have to know how to read and write to make alot of money, and most kids don't want to learn how to do those.
Those are the basics, I think those can be taught to young kids easily.
08-10-2007 03:29 PM
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Darthmat Offline
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Suicidal-kun Wrote:
darthmat Wrote:
Suicidal-kun Wrote:
darthmat Wrote:How can a school possibly function without threats or reawrds???
Teach things that the kids actually want to learn.
Noawadays you have to know how to read and write to make alot of money, and most kids don't want to learn how to do those.
Those are the basics, I think those can be taught to young kids easily.
However, they can't be taught without reward/punishment.

I highly suggest Mobb Deep's albums The Infamous and Hell on Earth, if you have not listened to it yet.
08-10-2007 03:33 PM
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The reward or punishment does not need to come from an outside source. If they find learning fun then that will be the reward.
08-10-2007 03:34 PM
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Darthmat Offline
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however, almost no child finds learnign fun.

I highly suggest Mobb Deep's albums The Infamous and Hell on Earth, if you have not listened to it yet.
08-10-2007 03:38 PM
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Because schools make it boring.
08-10-2007 03:45 PM
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Darthmat Offline
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how can schools make it fun though?

I highly suggest Mobb Deep's albums The Infamous and Hell on Earth, if you have not listened to it yet.
08-10-2007 03:46 PM
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