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Morality is/isn't subjective
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Suicidal-kun Wrote:I don't really have a problem eating meat.
Why not?
Weswammy Wrote:Morality is subjective.
What proof do you have?
08-09-2007 04:26 AM
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thewake Offline
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Ask someone on the street if abortion is good or bad. You will have people give you different opinions, therefore, different morals.

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08-09-2007 04:29 AM
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Suicidal-kun Offline
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Kirby Wrote:
Suicidal-kun Wrote:I don't really have a problem eating meat.
Why not?
I don't know, I just don't.
08-09-2007 04:31 AM
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Suicidal-kun Wrote:I don't know, I just don't.
Then make up your mind.

Weswammy Wrote:Ask someone on the street if abortion is good or bad. You will have people give you different opinions, therefore, different morals.
That just means people have different opinions. It says nothing about the fundamental nature of the world.
08-09-2007 04:33 AM
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I mean everything dies eventually, I guess I just don't think about it, I'll eat meat without really thinking about the animals that died.
08-09-2007 04:35 AM
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thewake Offline
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Kirby Wrote:
Weswammy Wrote:Ask someone on the street if abortion is good or bad. You will have people give you different opinions, therefore, different morals.
That just means people have different opinions. It says nothing about the fundamental nature of the world.

Morals are what people view as right or wrong. What I may think is wrong may not be thought of as wrong by you. I fail to see how morality=nature of the world.

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08-09-2007 04:36 AM
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If morality is objective then what is right and wrong is not dependent on a person's beliefs or views. If morality is subjective then there isn't really any right or wrong.
08-09-2007 04:42 AM
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thewake Offline
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Yes there is, but it differs from person to person.

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08-09-2007 05:19 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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What's right and what's wrong does tend to differ from person to person, and while there are a lot of things that are probably grey areas, not everything is. Some things are either just right or wrong, and if people disagree about it, then one of them has to be wrong. That doesn't mean they're bad people, they could just be approaching it from a different angle, but they still have the wrong general idea. Even though they believe they're right. And sometimes they do have good points. But they've still got it wrong.

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08-09-2007 07:09 AM
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thewake Offline
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We're talking about morality, not facts. Morality is not set in stone like the answer to 1+1. It differs from person to person. Each person is right in their view, yet in the view of some others they are wrong.

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08-09-2007 07:31 AM
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Darthmat Offline
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The genral opinion can't define what is right and wrong. However, there is what is generally accepted and unaccepted. People that do things taht are generally unexcepted are punished; even if they didn't think it was wrong.

I highly suggest Mobb Deep's albums The Infamous and Hell on Earth, if you have not listened to it yet.
08-09-2007 08:46 AM
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Weswammy Wrote:We're talking about morality, not facts. Morality is not set in stone like the answer to 1+1. It differs from person to person. Each person is right in their view, yet in the view of some others they are wrong.
And I say yet again, what proof do you have? You claim that morality is subjective but the only reason you have given is that various people have different views. That is not proof at all because many people have different views about things that only have one right answer.
08-09-2007 11:42 AM
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do you guys agree with what i said?

I highly suggest Mobb Deep's albums The Infamous and Hell on Earth, if you have not listened to it yet.
08-09-2007 10:26 PM
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thewake Offline
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What does morality have to do with nature? All I'm saying is that morals differ from person to person. They aren't set in stone.

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08-10-2007 07:08 AM
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You still have not proved that morality is subjective.
08-10-2007 07:14 AM
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Wikipedia Wrote:Morality (from Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behaviour") refers to the concept of human action which pertains to matters of right and wrong—also referred to as "good and evil"—used within three contexts: individual distinction; systems of valued principles—sometimes called conduct morality—shared within a cultural, religious, secular or philosophical community. Personal morals define and distinguish among right and wrong intentions, motivations or actions, as these have been learned, engendered, or otherwise developed within individuals. By contrast, ethics are more correctly applied as the study of broader social systems within whose context morality exists. Morals define whether I should kill my neighbour Joe when he steals my tractor; ethics define whether it is right or wrong for one person to kill another in a dispute over property.

Morals are beliefs held by people if something is right or wrong to do. BELIEFS. B-E-L-I-E-F-S. My moral beliefs are different from your; therefore, morals are subjective. How can morals be set in stone without all people believing the same thing? How can you argue this unless you believe some high being/ power/ etc. makes morals universal?

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08-10-2007 07:27 AM
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Moral objectivism means that certain actions are good or bad; whether they are good or bad is not dependent on a person's opinion.

Moral subjectivism means that there is no 100% true morality and anybody that claims something is moral can only be expressing an opinion; in other words, nothing can be truly called good or bad.

You say that morality is subjective because people have different beliefs. I know that people's opinion of what is right and wrong is different. But that does not mean that morality is subjective. Just because physicists disagree about different models of the universe doesn't mean that there is no right model. It just means they disagree.

Weswammy Wrote:How can morals be set in stone without all people believing the same thing?
The same way that Newtonian physics was true before Newton made it. F=ma was still a physical law before Newton made the equation. We have to find out what good and bad is.

Weswammy Wrote:How can you argue this unless you believe some high being/ power/ etc. makes morals universal?
There doesn't need to be a reason why things are good or bad. It's the same reason why there doesn't need to be a reason that the universe exists. Some things just are. (Note: That isn't an argument that morality is objective, just an argument that I can argue that morality is objective.)
08-10-2007 09:39 AM
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Once again, kirby has outwitted another poor soul who debated against him. Laugh
08-10-2007 03:48 PM
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Not really. Weswammy and I just aren't understanding things the same way.
08-10-2007 03:51 PM
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SK GOT PWND!!!!

I highly suggest Mobb Deep's albums The Infamous and Hell on Earth, if you have not listened to it yet.
08-10-2007 03:53 PM
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darthmat Wrote:SK GOT PWND!!!!
Yay for me!!!
08-10-2007 04:25 PM
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Or Leibniz.
08-11-2007 02:47 AM
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