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Creating a rebel infrastructure.
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Absnt Offline
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Post: #31
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

So Rebelnerd, you believe we should develop a collectivist anarchy? I fail to see how that's any different from communism, just without the retarded "leaders".

Ideally, in a perfectly functional communist country, there would be no classes, and everything would be collectivized. So, in an collectivist anarchism, would it not be the same?

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03-12-2011 03:06 PM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #32
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

ooh, he's talking about communism. lol.

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
03-12-2011 03:25 PM
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The Desert Fox Offline
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Post: #33
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

He is an anarcho-communist.

Hidden stuff:
(11-27-2011 01:00 PM)psychopath Wrote:  
(11-27-2011 10:52 AM)Efs Wrote:  Our Army is more professional than Amerika. Smile
Except ours isn't allowed to have guns
CrayolaColours Wrote:That post owned. TDF wins post of the year.
Faby Wrote:
krissy Wrote:dessert fox
Mmm, flambéed vulpine.
"There is no enemy, there is no victory, only boys who lost their lives in the sand."
[/center]
03-12-2011 10:26 PM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #34
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

The Desert Fox Wrote:He is an anarcho-communist.
And pretending that that's the only kind of anarchy!

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
03-13-2011 02:23 AM
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The Desert Fox Offline
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Post: #35
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

Well, anarcho-capitalism is an oxymoron, lol. So it's, generally speaking, off the table.

Hidden stuff:
(11-27-2011 01:00 PM)psychopath Wrote:  
(11-27-2011 10:52 AM)Efs Wrote:  Our Army is more professional than Amerika. Smile
Except ours isn't allowed to have guns
CrayolaColours Wrote:That post owned. TDF wins post of the year.
Faby Wrote:
krissy Wrote:dessert fox
Mmm, flambéed vulpine.
"There is no enemy, there is no victory, only boys who lost their lives in the sand."
[/center]
03-13-2011 03:29 AM
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Post: #36
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

Prince Rilian Wrote:
The Desert Fox Wrote:He is an anarcho-communist.
And pretending that that's the only kind of anarchy!
It's the only kind that will actually stay anarchy. Anarcho-capitalism(lol) may start out fine but eventually, and inevitably, an wealthy class will emerge. Then BOOM it's no longer anarchy.

As for anarcho-collectivism vs. anarcho-communism, yes I'm an an-com and yes they're different, but similar enough that we should really stop bickering over which one is better and just focus on our many mutual enemies.

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
The quickest way to kill a revolution is to wait for it.
03-13-2011 03:39 AM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #37
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

Anarcho-communismlol.
You can't enforce the communism without being a government. Anarchy and communism are not compatible. Idiot.

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
03-13-2011 04:22 AM
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TheCancer Offline
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Post: #38
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

Prince Rilian Wrote:Anarcho-communismlol.
You can't enforce the communism without being a government. Anarchy and communism are not compatible. Idiot.

I am not an anarcho-communist but the compatibility depends on how you define communism. Are you an anarchist Rilian?

If you want to be a different fish, you've got to jump out of the school.


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03-13-2011 04:27 AM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #39
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

Rebelnerd Wrote:eventually, and inevitably, an wealthy class will emerge.
Prove it.
Quote:Then BOOM it's no longer anarchy.
As long as no one is initiating force to violate another person's life, liberty, or property, it is anarchy. Well, really, there will always be criminals. The key is whether they are recognized as criminals. A "government" is a group that initiates violence yet is viewed by most victims as legitimate. Like a woman thinking it's just "right" that a man should rape her whenever he feels like it. Like a child thinking his parents have the "right" to abuse him. Anarchy is really about opening people's eyes to their true freedom and imbuing them with the power to assert that freedom.

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
03-13-2011 04:32 AM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #40
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

TheCancer Wrote:
Prince Rilian Wrote:Anarcho-communismlol.
You can't enforce the communism without being a government. Anarchy and communism are not compatible. Idiot.

I am not an anarcho-communist but the compatibility depends on how you define communism. Are you an anarchist Rilian?
Yes, because I don't believe that any person or group has the right to initiate violence against another person's life, liberty, or property.

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
03-13-2011 04:34 AM
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The Desert Fox Offline
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Post: #41
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

Prince Rilian Wrote:
Rebelnerd Wrote:eventually, and inevitably, an wealthy class will emerge.
Prove it.
Come on man, does it really make sense to say that? Inevitably under capitalism, someone will accumulate wealth. It always has happened, and always will.

Hidden stuff:
(11-27-2011 01:00 PM)psychopath Wrote:  
(11-27-2011 10:52 AM)Efs Wrote:  Our Army is more professional than Amerika. Smile
Except ours isn't allowed to have guns
CrayolaColours Wrote:That post owned. TDF wins post of the year.
Faby Wrote:
krissy Wrote:dessert fox
Mmm, flambéed vulpine.
"There is no enemy, there is no victory, only boys who lost their lives in the sand."
[/center]
03-13-2011 05:08 AM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #42
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

The Desert Fox Wrote:
Prince Rilian Wrote:
Rebelnerd Wrote:eventually, and inevitably, an wealthy class will emerge.
Prove it.
Come on man, does it really make sense to say that? Inevitably under capitalism, someone will accumulate wealth. It always has happened, and always will.
I've never seen capitalism. I've never seen a free market.

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
03-13-2011 05:29 AM
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Absnt Offline
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Post: #43
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

Prince Rilian Wrote:I've never seen capitalism. I've never seen a free market.

See: Monopoly.

Blog I post to now:
http://blog.darknedgy.net

Edfreedom.org -- An organization for more freedom in education.
http://www.edfreedom.org/join-us/
03-13-2011 05:44 AM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #44
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

Absentinsomniac Wrote:
Prince Rilian Wrote:I've never seen capitalism. I've never seen a free market.

See: Monopoly.
Are you talking about the game?

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
03-13-2011 05:47 AM
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Absnt Offline
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Post: #45
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

Prince Rilian Wrote:
Absentinsomniac Wrote:
Prince Rilian Wrote:I've never seen capitalism. I've never seen a free market.

See: Monopoly.
Are you talking about the game?

lol. No, I'm talking about when, in a completely free market, a company grows so massively that it totally takes over the market for it's particular product and raises prices to whatever they want, becoming as powerful as they want.

Blog I post to now:
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Edfreedom.org -- An organization for more freedom in education.
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03-13-2011 06:34 AM
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Absnt Offline
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Post: #46
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

Prince Rilian Wrote:
Absentinsomniac Wrote:
Prince Rilian Wrote:I've never seen capitalism. I've never seen a free market.

See: Monopoly.
Are you talking about the game?

lol. No, I'm talking about when, in a completely free market, a company grows so massively that it totally takes over the market for it's particular product and raises prices to whatever they want, becoming as powerful as they want.

Blog I post to now:
http://blog.darknedgy.net

Edfreedom.org -- An organization for more freedom in education.
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03-13-2011 06:34 AM
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Post: #47
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

Prince Rilian Wrote:Anarcho-communismlol.
You can't enforce the communism without being a government. Anarchy and communism are not compatible. Idiot.
Marx's ultimate goal was anarchy. He just believed that you need a government to make the transition, and this where Marxists and anarchists split. Read moar history.

Prince Rilian Wrote:
Rebelnerd Wrote:eventually, and inevitably, an wealthy class will emerge.
Prove it.
Come on, now you're just being stupid. The whole point of capitalism is that some people gain more wealth than others. We can argue all day over whether that happens because of underhanded business practices or honest hard work, but it still happens.

Quote:
Quote:Then BOOM it's no longer anarchy.
As long as no one is initiating force to violate another person's life, liberty, or property, it is anarchy. Well, really, there will always be criminals. The key is whether they are recognized as criminals. A "government" is a group that initiates violence yet is viewed by most victims as legitimate. Like a woman thinking it's just "right" that a man should rape her whenever he feels like it. Like a child thinking his parents have the "right" to abuse him. Anarchy is really about opening people's eyes to their true freedom and imbuing them with the power to assert that freedom.
No. Wrong. Anarchy doesn't mean that some people have power and choose not to exercise it, it means nobody has power at all. Otherwise the non-rich will be living under constant threat of oppression. Use your head, comrade. Do you really think a state of anarchy can last if a small minority controls a majority of resources? Even if the owner of that company happened to be a decent guy who wouldn't use it to take advantage of others, who's to say that his successor will be so nice?
Your vision of "anarchy" seems to depend on all the rich people pinky-swearing not to use their immense power to oppress others. That's incredibly naive and a recipe for disaster. True anarchism ensures liberty by eliminating the threat of oppression altogether. Wealth IS power and we seek to redistribute it equally just like political power should be distributed equally.

Also, your definition of government is very fishy. A government doesn't have to be "viewed" as legitimate for it to be a government. A dictator who keeps his people in line through raw fear may be seen as illegitimate by the population, but he's still in charge until someone stops him.
Also also, even if we go by your definition, I could argue that the upper class fits it perfectly. People have been brainwashed by capitalist "rags to riches" fairy tales into thinking that the super-rich have somehow "earned" the right to own resources that should be going to the poor and desperate. So they keep slaving away, believing that someday they too will be rich, while their bosses laugh behind their backs.


Quote:Yes, because I don't believe that any person or group has the right to initiate violence against another person's life, liberty, or property.
No, you're a libertarian. A libertarian believes that nobody should oppress others, but doesn't believe that it's okay to eliminate the means of oppression.


Picture a room full of ten people and ten guns, with one guy holding all the guns and using them to control the other nine. An anarchist and libertarian both look at this and see that it's wrong. They both want to stop him from abusing everyone else, but the anarchist is the only one who thinks it might actually be a good idea to take nine of his guns away and hand them out to the others, just to make sure.

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
The quickest way to kill a revolution is to wait for it.
03-13-2011 07:16 AM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #48
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

Absentinsomniac Wrote:lol. No, I'm talking about when, in a completely free market, a company grows so massively that it totally takes over the market for it's particular product and raises prices to whatever they want, becoming as powerful as they want.
OK. I've never seen a free market.

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
03-13-2011 07:41 AM
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The Desert Fox Offline
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Post: #49
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

Prince Rilian Wrote:I've never seen capitalism. I've never seen a free market.
ಠ_ಠ

You live in the US, correct? Capitalism. Boom.

Hidden stuff:
(11-27-2011 01:00 PM)psychopath Wrote:  
(11-27-2011 10:52 AM)Efs Wrote:  Our Army is more professional than Amerika. Smile
Except ours isn't allowed to have guns
CrayolaColours Wrote:That post owned. TDF wins post of the year.
Faby Wrote:
krissy Wrote:dessert fox
Mmm, flambéed vulpine.
"There is no enemy, there is no victory, only boys who lost their lives in the sand."
[/center]
03-13-2011 07:45 AM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #50
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

Rebelnerd Wrote:
Prince Rilian Wrote:Anarcho-communismlol.
You can't enforce the communism without being a government. Anarchy and communism are not compatible. Idiot.
Marx's ultimate goal was anarchy. He just believed that you need a government to make the transition, and this where Marxists and anarchists split. Read moar history.
Don't tell me what to do. I don't care about history. I don't care what marx said or thought or wanted.

Quote:
Prince Rilian Wrote:
Rebelnerd Wrote:eventually, and inevitably, an wealthy class will emerge.
Prove it.
Come on, now you're just being stupid. The whole point of capitalism is that some people gain more wealth than others.
No, that is not the point of the free market. The free market is individuals willingly exchanging value, without a "government" interfering.
Quote:We can argue all day over whether that happens because of underhanded business practices or honest hard work, but it still happens.
It happens? When have you ever seen it happen?

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:Then BOOM it's no longer anarchy.
As long as no one is initiating force to violate another person's life, liberty, or property, it is anarchy. Well, really, there will always be criminals. The key is whether they are recognized as criminals. A "government" is a group that initiates violence yet is viewed by most victims as legitimate. Like a woman thinking it's just "right" that a man should rape her whenever he feels like it. Like a child thinking his parents have the "right" to abuse him. Anarchy is really about opening people's eyes to their true freedom and imbuing them with the power to assert that freedom.
No. Wrong. Anarchy doesn't mean that some people have power and choose not to exercise it
That's not at all what I said, 'tard.
Quote:Wealth IS power and we seek to redistribute it equally just like political power should be distributed equally.
There should not be political power.

Quote:Also, your definition of government is very fishy. A government doesn't have to be "viewed" as legitimate for it to be a government. A dictator who keeps his people in line through raw fear may be seen as illegitimate by the population, but he's still in charge until someone stops him.
People wouldn't see it as a government then, they'd see it as terrorism.
Quote:
Quote:Yes, because I don't believe that any person or group has the right to initiate violence against another person's life, liberty, or property.
No, you're a libertarian. A libertarian believes that nobody should oppress others, but doesn't believe that it's okay to eliminate the means of oppression.
I'm an anarchist because I believe in having no rulers. Anarchy does not mean anything else. Libertarianism means believing in each person's ownership of their own body and the products of their own labor.


Quote:Picture a room full of ten people and ten guns, with one guy holding all the guns and using them to control the other nine.
He's the aggressor, and those nine people have the right to do whatever is needed to stop him. Also, someone else who's not in the room has the right to come in and stop the guy. Because he is the aggressor, and defense of self or others is acceptable.
Quote:An anarchist and libertarian both look at this and see that it's wrong. They both want to stop him from abusing everyone else, but the anarchist is the only one who thinks it might actually be a good idea to take nine of his guns away and hand them out to the others, just to make sure.
No, that's not the anarchist. That's the tyrant.

How 'bout you explain how in a rights-respecting society it got to be where those 9 people were stuck unarmed in a room with a psycho?

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
03-13-2011 07:59 AM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #51
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

The Desert Fox Wrote:
Prince Rilian Wrote:I've never seen capitalism. I've never seen a free market.
ಠ_ృ

You live in the US, correct? Capitalism. Boom.
Wow you're stupid. merca does not have a free market.

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
03-13-2011 08:00 AM
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The Desert Fox Offline
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Post: #52
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

Prince Rilian Wrote:
The Desert Fox Wrote:
Prince Rilian Wrote:I've never seen capitalism. I've never seen a free market.
ಠ_ృ

You live in the US, correct? Capitalism. Boom.
Wow you're stupid. merca does not have a free market.
Oh wow, Rilian being an ass again and snapping at tiny things. Who woulda thought?

All right then, if America doesn't have capitalism, then what does it have?
Prince Rilian Wrote:
Quote:We can argue all day over whether that happens because of underhanded business practices or honest hard work, but it still happens.
It happens? When have you ever seen it happen?
Quote:
Starting from the "hard-working, red-blooded American" prospect, which happens less than you'd like to think.

1. Guy starts a business.
2. Guy's business is highly successful.
3. Guy begins to earn somewhat more money than most people.
4. Guy expands his business.
5. Guy's business becomes even more popular.
6. Guy starts raking in the cash.
7. Repeat steps 4, 5, and 6.
8. Guy keeps earning tons of money
9. Guy progressively gains more power and "respect" due to his being rich.
10. Repeat steps 8 and 9
11. ?????
12. Capitalism!

Obviously that's in a nutshell and nothing more, but that's exactly what I aimed for.
Prince Rilian Wrote:That's not at all what I said, 'tard.
Really. Because saying, in a nutshell, giving people freedom but not eliminating those that have the power sure seems like what you said to me. Tell people they have the freedom to act how they want but leaving the government and corporations and whatnot in place doesn't seem like it would work as an anarchy. Possibly because the gov and corporations would say "Hell no" and, oh, I don't know, keep the power that they've had for quite awhile?

Hidden stuff:
(11-27-2011 01:00 PM)psychopath Wrote:  
(11-27-2011 10:52 AM)Efs Wrote:  Our Army is more professional than Amerika. Smile
Except ours isn't allowed to have guns
CrayolaColours Wrote:That post owned. TDF wins post of the year.
Faby Wrote:
krissy Wrote:dessert fox
Mmm, flambéed vulpine.
"There is no enemy, there is no victory, only boys who lost their lives in the sand."
[/center]
03-13-2011 08:23 AM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #53
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

The Desert Fox Wrote:Tell people they have the freedom to act how they want but leaving the government and corporations and whatnot in place
That's not what I'm advocating.

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
03-13-2011 08:43 AM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #54
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

The Desert Fox Wrote:
Prince Rilian Wrote:
The Desert Fox Wrote:ಠ_ృ

You live in the US, correct? Capitalism. Boom.
Wow you're stupid. merca does not have a free market.
Oh wow, Rilian being an ass again and snapping at tiny things. Who woulda thought?
That's not tiny, and I didn't snap. Whether my comment is ass-ish is subjective, I guess.

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
03-13-2011 08:45 AM
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Post: #55
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

Prince Rilian Wrote:Don't tell me what to do. I don't care about history. I don't care what marx said or thought or wanted.
You don't care what he did or said, yet you feel qualified to judge it. Interesting. The level of willful ignorance radiating from this post is high enough for me to cook bacon by holding it in front of my monitor.

Quote:No, that is not the point of the free market. The free market is individuals willingly exchanging value, without a "government" interfering.
Yes, it is. The goal of capitalism is that people are allowed to achieve financial success through innovation and hard work. This will always result in some people having more than others.

Quote:It happens? When have you ever seen it happen?
In literally every single capitalistic economic system in the entire history of the human race.

Quote:That's not at all what I said, 'tard.
But it's what you implied. You want a system where people are allowed to have economic power, but they don't exercise it. How else could this happen? Without bringing a political government into the mix, which neither of us want, there is literally no other way.

Quote:There should not be political power.
I agree. Neither should there be economic power, because power is power no matter where it comes from. Also, political and economic power have a nasty habit of changing into each other over time.

Quote:People wouldn't see it as a government then, they'd see it as terrorism.
First of all, that's not necessarily true. Second...what exactly is your point here?

Quote:I'm an anarchist because I believe in having no rulers. Anarchy does not mean anything else. Libertarianism means believing in each person's ownership of their own body and the products of their own labor.
You've proven yourself wrong within that very sentence. If anarchy means no rulers, and libertarianism means respecting a person's right to control their own property, then what happens if one person has more property than everyone else? He's become a ruler through means which are perfectly legitimate under libertarian/free market philosophy. What would you do then?

Quote:He's the aggressor, and those nine people have the right to do whatever is needed to stop him. Also, someone else who's not in the room has the right to come in and stop the guy. Because he is the aggressor, and defense of self or others is acceptable.
What are they supposed to do? He's got ten guns, you idiot! Also, we're going to pretend that nobody's outside the room. It's called a "hypothetical scenario" or an "analogy." I'm just trying to put this in simple terms that you'll understand.

Quote:
Quote:An anarchist and libertarian both look at this and see that it's wrong. They both want to stop him from abusing everyone else, but the anarchist is the only one who thinks it might actually be a good idea to take nine of his guns away and hand them out to the others, just to make sure.
No, that's not the anarchist. That's the tyrant.

Bigeek

Are you fucking serious? Do you honestly not see how insane that sounds or are you just unwilling to admit it?

I'm taking a screenshot of this and saving it. Then I'm going to use it on an anarcho-communist forum as proof that we can't trust you guys.

Quote:How 'bout you explain how in a rights-respecting society it got to be where those 9 people were stuck unarmed in a room with a psycho?
He started a successful arms company that used sweatshop labor to drive his competitors out of business. With nowhere else to work, the other guys took minimum-wage jobs in his factory and ended up having to sell their guns for food. That's how.
Replace guns with water, food, electricity, houses...there's the inherent problem with libertarianism. The free market is a nice, convenient backdoor to the throne. It's a way for people to amass obscene amounts of power without going through the whole hassle of "elections" and "the Constitution" that political leaders need to tackle.

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
The quickest way to kill a revolution is to wait for it.
03-13-2011 10:58 AM
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HeartofShadows Offline
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Post: #56
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

Oh he's a libertarian..

That explains oh so much.

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03-13-2011 12:37 PM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #57
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

Rebelnerd Wrote:
Prince Rilian Wrote:Don't tell me what to do. I don't care about history. I don't care what marx said or thought or wanted.
You don't care what he did or said, yet you feel qualified to judge it.
I was judging what YOU said.
Quote: Interesting. The level of willful ignorance radiating from this post is high enough for me to cook bacon by holding it in front of my monitor.

Quote:No, that is not the point of the free market. The free market is individuals willingly exchanging value, without a "government" interfering.
Yes, it is. The goal of capitalism is that people are allowed to achieve financial success through innovation and hard work. This will always result in some people having more than others.
Prove it.

Quote:
Quote:It happens? When have you ever seen it happen?
In literally every single capitalistic economic system in the entire history of the human race.
When has there ever been one of those?

Quote:
Quote:That's not at all what I said, 'tard.
But it's what you implied. You want a system where people are allowed to have economic power, but they don't exercise it.
No, I don't.
Quote: How else could this happen? Without bringing a political government into the mix, which neither of us want, there is literally no other way.

Quote:There should not be political power.
I agree. Neither should there be economic power,
People own themselves. That is economic power. To take that away is to make every person a slave to you.
Quote:because power is power no matter where it comes from. Also, political and economic power have a nasty habit of changing into each other over time.

Quote:People wouldn't see it as a government then, they'd see it as terrorism.
First of all, that's not necessarily true. Second...what exactly is your point here?

Quote:I'm an anarchist because I believe in having no rulers. Anarchy does not mean anything else. Libertarianism means believing in each person's ownership of their own body and the products of their own labor.
You've proven yourself wrong within that very sentence. If anarchy means no rulers, and libertarianism means respecting a person's right to control their own property, then what happens if one person has more property than everyone else? He's become a ruler through means which are perfectly legitimate under libertarian/free market philosophy.
No, he hasn't. As long as he respects other people's life, liberty, and property, he's not a ruler.
Quote:What would you do then?

Quote:He's the aggressor, and those nine people have the right to do whatever is needed to stop him. Also, someone else who's not in the room has the right to come in and stop the guy. Because he is the aggressor, and defense of self or others is acceptable.
What are they supposed to do? He's got ten guns, you idiot! Also, we're going to pretend that nobody's outside the room. It's called a "hypothetical scenario" or an "analogy." I'm just trying to put this in simple terms that you'll understand.
lol.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:An anarchist and libertarian both look at this and see that it's wrong. They both want to stop him from abusing everyone else, but the anarchist is the only one who thinks it might actually be a good idea to take nine of his guns away and hand them out to the others, just to make sure.
No, that's not the anarchist. That's the tyrant.

Bigeek

Are you fucking serious? Do you honestly not see how insane that sounds or are you just unwilling to admit it?

I'm taking a screenshot of this and saving it. Then I'm going to use it on an anarcho-communist forum as proof that we can't trust you guys.
Like I give a shit.

Quote:
Quote:How 'bout you explain how in a rights-respecting society it got to be where those 9 people were stuck unarmed in a room with a psycho?
He started a successful arms company that used sweatshop labor
How in the fuck was he able to do that?
Quote:to drive his competitors out of business. With nowhere else to work, the other guys took minimum-wage jobs in his factory and ended up having to sell their guns for food. That's how.
Replace guns with water, food, electricity, houses...there's the inherent problem with libertarianism. The free market is a nice, convenient backdoor to the throne. It's a way for people to amass obscene amounts of power without going through the whole hassle of "elections" and "the Constitution" that political leaders need to tackle.

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
03-13-2011 04:37 PM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #58
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

HeartofShadows Wrote:Oh he's a libertarian..

That explains oh so much.
Not that stupid political party. I don't support politics.

How in the fuck can you be against respecting people's LIFE, LIBERTY, and PROPERTY? You want to kill, enslave, or rob people?

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

Zoidberg: What is it, already? What's the cause of your anger?
Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
03-13-2011 04:39 PM
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Post: #59
Re: Creating a rebel infrastructure.

Listen to me: what I'm about to say is an apolitical statement. Let's just get that established right off the bat. It does not reflect my views on libertarians/capitalists in general, since I've met many of them who are very likable and intelligent people, even if I disagree with them.

Here it is. YOU ARE STUPID.

Really. I don't even mean this as an insult. What I mean is that you are truly one of the most unintelligent people who I've ever had a discussion with, either on a forum or in real life. The number of logical fallacies in your last post is staggering, as is the number of responses that consist of simply "lol" or "no" or "no ur wrong, u hate freedom."
I laid out my argument as simply and logically as possible. Surely, decades of libertarian philosophy has come up with retorts, and I was hoping that you would explain them so that we could see whose was the more convincing. But instead, you have done nothing but repeat the same tired slogans over and over again even after I've proven them wrong. Look, maybe you're unfamiliar with how arguments are supposed to work. When you make a statement, and I explain why I think it's wrong, you can't just repeat your previous statement and call it a "response." It's not. It's just meaningless repetition that proves nothing.

I can't respond in detail to your last posts because there is honestly nothing to respond to. There is no thought, no logic, no depth to any of it. Everything that you said has been said countless times before. By you. And I've already dealt with it as best I could.

Either you really are a remarkably unintelligent person with a gift for irrationality and denial, or you're one of those fair-weather Internet Libertarians who did a google search for "anarcho-capitalism" because it sounded cool, looked up a few bumper stickers and called it research, and now believes himself to be an expert. Believes it so strongly that he'd rather resort to moronic insults than admit he's in over his head.



You've got a lot to learn, comrade. Call me when you're ready to make sense and we can continue this.

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
The quickest way to kill a revolution is to wait for it.
03-14-2011 05:52 AM
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