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Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
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thewake Offline
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Post: #1
Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

So I was watching television, because since my parents turned the Intarwebz off there is nothing to do except torture/play with our cats and rot my brain on the T.V., on PBS(one of the few good channels and we have cable). It was a cooking show my grandma was watching and I saw this commercial for a documentary by, oddly enough, Ben Stein. I really didn't get much of what it was about but today I looked it up.

It's a movie documentary, kind of like "Fahrenheit 9/11" or "An Inconvenient Truth", about how Intelligent Design is discriminated against in classrooms and scientific institutions across America. It's about how a scientist, if he holds this belief, can lose his job and credibility because of it.
Crazy, I know.
The movie is called "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed".

http://expelledthemovie.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expelled:_ ... ce_Allowed

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04-13-2008 02:14 AM
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KittyKatBlack Offline
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Post: #2
Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

That movie has really bad reviews. Even Fox News gave it a bad rev.
04-13-2008 02:16 AM
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thewake Offline
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Lulz, isn't it great.

Everyone knows the Mass Media will do anything to make unique thinkers look bad.

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04-13-2008 02:19 AM
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Cilaos Offline
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Post: #4
Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

If he tries to teach it I would fire him too, but not if he just believed it.
Scientists tend to lose credibility and and be really low on hire lists when they believe stupid shit like intelligent design, which, by the way DOES NOT belong in the classroom.

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04-13-2008 02:20 AM
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KittyKatBlack Offline
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Lulz, I suppose you only agree with it because you're christian.
04-13-2008 02:21 AM
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KittyKatBlack Offline
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Oh, lookie what I found! http://www.expelledexposed.com/

And here is that Fox review.

"After seeing a new non-fiction film starring Comedy Central’s Ben Stein, you may not only be able to win his money, but also his career.

Stein is that whiny little guy with the monotone voice that makes him seem funny and an unlikely "character" for TV appearances. But that career may be over come April 18, when a movie he co-wrote, narrates and appears in, called "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed," is released.

Directed by one Nathan Frankowski, "Expelled" is a sloppy, all-over-the-place, poorly made (and not just a little boring) "expose" of the scientific community. It’s not very exciting. But it does show that Stein, who’s carved out a career selling eye drops in commercials and amusing us on sitcoms, is either completely nuts or so avaricious that he’s abandoned all good sense to make a buck.

To wit: Stein, Frankowski and pals say in "Expelled" that perfectly good scientists and educators are being stigmatized for wanting to teach their students creationism and "intelligent design" — in other words, junk science — in addition to or instead of conventionally accepted Darwinism. You see, Stein, like some other celebrities, finally has shown his true colors and they aren’t so pretty.

The gist of Stein’s involvement is: He’s outraged! He believes in God! God created the universe! How can we not avail our students of this theory? What do you mean we’re just molecules?

What the producers of this film would love, love, love is a controversy. That’s because it’s being marketed by the same people who brought us "The Passion of the Christ." They’re hoping someone will latch onto an anti-Semitism theme here, since there’s a visit to a concentration camp and the raised idea — apparently typical of the intelligent design community — that somehow the theory of evolution is so evil that it caused the Holocaust. Alas, this is such a warped premise that no one’s biting.

The whole idea of Stein, a Jew, jumping on the intelligent design bandwagon of the theory of evolution begetting the Nazis is so distasteful you wonder what in — sorry — God’s name — he was thinking when he got into this. Who cares, really, if "Expelled" is anti-Semitic? It will come and go without much fanfare.

But Stein is another matter. Can he really be amusing selling eye drops or acting like a nebbish on game shows if we now have this new insight into his thinking?

You know Ben Stein from his voice. He used it to intone Ferris Bueller’s name iconically at the beginning of that 20-year-old Matthew Broderick movie. His laconic delivery and deadpan presence have given him a benign celebrity — until now.

But this is what he wrote last fall on the "Expelled" movie Web site:

"Darwinism is still very much alive, utterly dominating biology. Despite the fact that no one has ever been able to prove the creation of a single distinct species by Darwinist means, Darwinism dominates the academy and the media. Darwinism also has not one meaningful word to say on the origins of organic life, a striking lacuna in a theory supposedly explaining life.

"Alas, Darwinism has had a far bloodier life span than Imperialism. Darwinism, perhaps mixed with Imperialism, gave us Social Darwinism, a form of racism so vicious that it countenanced the Holocaust against the Jews and mass murder of many other groups in the name of speeding along the evolutionary process."

In a word: Urgggh. Suddenly Stein is not so amusing anymore. I want my eye drops from someone else.

PS: Following "The Passion" release pattern, "Expelled" will open wide on the 18th, but mostly in rural and poor neighborhoods. It’s got just one theater in all of New York City, in Times Square, none in places like Beverly Hills or wealthier, better-educated urban neighborhoods where more "evolved" people might live.

According to the film’s Web site, the producers are in a whopping 45 theaters in North Carolina, and a mere seven in Massachusetts, 35 in Georgia, 11 in New Jersey, four in Connecticut and one in Vermont. And so on. There are huge numbers of screens in Florida and Texas taking the film, particularly seven in San Antonio. If I lived in the Deep South, I’d boycott the filmmakers for thinking of me as this gullible and unsophisticated."
04-13-2008 02:23 AM
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thewake Offline
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Post: #7
Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Yes, the whole "EVOLUTION MAED THE HOLCAUST! WTF!!!!!!!11eleven" is far fetched, but the fact remains creationism and evolution is not given fair ground and that otherwise logical scientists are being persecuted for their beliefs.
And many movie documentaries(see: Al Gore's movie) are stupid.

I'd like to see the movie myself, I guess I'll have to wait till it comes on video/is posted in a condensed form on Youtube.
Zero Wrote:If he tries to teach it I would fire him too, but not if he just believed it.
Scientists tend to lose credibility and and be really low on hire lists when they believe stupid shit like intelligent design, which, by the way DOES NOT belong in the classroom.
If creationism doesn't neither does evolution.
And to call creationism "stupid shit" is pretty, well, stupid shit. If you want to sling mud please refrain from it.

KittyKatBlack Wrote:Oh, lookie what I found! http://www.expelledexposed.com/
OMG! NEWS REPORTS! ARTICLES! MANY OF THEM BIASED TOWARD EVOLUTION!
Big whoop.
Quote:Lulz, I suppose you only agree with it because you're christian.
The movie has had limited screenings and the only thing I know of it is reviews and stuff. I want to see it.
The Holocaust thing seems over the top, and I do hate it when people don't give fair ground to evolution or creationism, so it may not be what I expect.
But the movie makes points about how believing in God can ruin a scientific career, that's just discriminatory and it's true.

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04-13-2008 02:48 AM
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KittyKatBlack Offline
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Post: #8
Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Quote:If creationism doesn't neither does evolution.

I suppose your an expert on evolution, huh? Evolution is a scientific theory, while creationism is a religious belief. You see, science class is for science, not for political correctness and religion. If you want to debate about it ('cause I'm not so up to date on evo) go here- http://www.infidels.org, and to the forums. I'm sure your ass will be torn in half. There are much more intelligent people there than me, and many of them are scientists.

Quote:OMG! NEWS REPORTS! ARTICLES! MANY OF THEM BIASED TOWARD EVOLUTION!
Big whoop.

OMG, I can't trust anyone cause I'm in the oppressed majority who bitches and whines when we don't get what we want, even when it makes no sense!
04-13-2008 02:53 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #9
Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Quote:If he tries to teach it I would fire him too, but not if he just believed it.
Scientists tend to lose credibility and and be really low on hire lists when they believe stupid shit like intelligent design, which, by the way DOES NOT belong in the classroom.

I find this amusing. Giggle
Anyone care to guess why?

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04-13-2008 02:54 AM
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Cilaos Offline
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Post: #10
Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Hey, fucktard weswammy, evolution has scientific merit, intelligent design is just saying "gawd didz its".
Intelligent design doesn't deserve time in class, it's just a bunch of bible beating dumb asses trying to keep church members in the face of evolutionary proof.
A theory based solely on a 2,000 year old book with no evidence to back it up.

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04-13-2008 03:00 AM
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thewake Offline
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Post: #11
Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

I'll tell you something buster brown, creationism could be a scientific theory just like evolution.

I will admit, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that evolution is currently a much more well thought out and scientifically accurate theory.
But to not give creationism the equal ground to be studied and developed just like evolution is about stupid and reminiscent of the Dark Ages. And creationism being discriminated against, not even being allowed the time to be developed as a theory, is what is happening. All people who advocate evolution want to do is debunk it when all it is right now is an idea(and has been for so many generations it's not even funny). People who would want to develop it into a respectable theory are humiliated.

And that's just sad.

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04-13-2008 03:01 AM
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Cilaos Offline
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

God doesn't belong in schools, why should a theory based solely on religion deserve ANY time schools or any government institution?

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04-13-2008 03:04 AM
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KittyKatBlack Offline
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Post: #13
Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Probably Weswammy Wrote:I'll tell you something buster brown, creationism could be a scientific theory just like evolution.

I will admit, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that evolution is currently a much more well thought out and scientifically accurate theory.
But to not give creationism the equal ground to be studied and developed just like evolution is about stupid and reminiscent of the Dark Ages. And creationism being discriminated against, not even being allowed the time to be developed as a theory, is what is happening. All people who advocate evolution want to do is debunk it when all it is right now is an idea(and has been for so many generations it's not even funny). People who would want to develop it into a respectable theory are humiliated.

And that's just sad.

Perhaps you don't understand. SCIENCE class is for SCIENCE, not RELIGION. It is allowed to be developed by whoever wants to develop it, but as long as it's not SCIENCE it can't be taught in SCIENCE class. Unless it has evidence other than some ancient book and some followers (who, by the way, make up about 80% of the population) it can only be classified as a RELIGIOUS belief.
04-13-2008 03:07 AM
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Cilaos Offline
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

THANK YOU.
I should start bringing you to debates, you say EXACTLY what I'm TRYING to say.
Thanks kittah.

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04-13-2008 03:11 AM
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Zero Wrote:THANK YOU.
I should start bringing you to debates, you say EXACTLY what I'm trying to say.
Thanks kittah.
Welcomes. Biggrin I don't debate that often because I'm afraid of being wrong and looking like an idiot (which I can do pretty well), honestly.
04-13-2008 03:13 AM
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

SoulRiser Wrote:I find this amusing. Giggle
Anyone care to guess why?
I'm going with the idea that it implies even the remotest POSSIBILITY of me teaching in a school.

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04-13-2008 03:19 AM
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

The problem is not intelligent design, the problem is class and subject limitations. What class does the history of calculus belong in? Math or history?

I found that quote amusing because you were saying what does or does not belong in CLASS.... as if to say that class is generally fine as it currently is.

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04-13-2008 03:46 AM
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

It is NOT fine as it is, I know, but adding THAT stupid crap would just make it worse.

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04-13-2008 03:50 AM
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Post: #19
Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Zero Wrote:God doesn't belong in schools, why should a theory based solely on religion deserve ANY time schools or any government institution?
People who would like to garner evidence for it are fired and disgraced. Mainstream scientists would be unreceptive to any "proof" of a creationist based theory.

And if I didn't think there were more important things to worry about, I'd probably dedicate my life to defining a well thought out scientific theory for creationism. The Pope would probably make me a saint(and I'm not even Catholic).

Quote:I find this amusing. Giggle
Anyone care to guess why?
Because it implies school should even be teaching things like this or that school should try to force a belief on kids?
And that we're on a freaking anti-school website. Yes, I see the horrible irony.

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04-13-2008 03:54 AM
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Quote:People who would like to garner evidence for it are fired and disgraced. Mainstream scientists would be unreceptive to any "proof" of a creationist based theory.

I'll have to see proof of that from a non-biased source.
04-13-2008 03:56 AM
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

KittyKatBlack Wrote:proof of that from a non-biased source.
404.
:edit: 404 is the error code for page/file not found.

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04-13-2008 04:00 AM
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Zero Wrote:
KittyKatBlack Wrote:proof of that from a non-biased source.
404.
なに?
04-13-2008 04:06 AM
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Probably Weswammy Wrote:Because it implies school should even be teaching things like this or that school should try to force a belief on kids?

If you were carrying an elephant on your back would you want someone to put a horse or two on because the elephant on your back sucks?
04-13-2008 04:11 AM
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thewake Offline
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Post: #24
Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articl ... suit_says/

There's one instance.
I'm pretty sure he wouldn't even have gotten that job without keeping his faith low profile.

And you people talk like Science and Religion are 2 different things when, in fact, they over lap in this instance. This is a point when science becomes religion and vice versa. Evolution and Creationism are answering the same question, and to dismiss one as "just religion" is stupid. In this instance it would be just as easy to dismiss evolution as "just religion". What if a religion taught evolution? Then would evolution be null and void? No. Just because religions teach creationism doesn't mean you can't pull it out of that mess and look at it for what it really is, a belief on the origin of life (like evolution).

KittyKatBlack Wrote:
Probably Weswammy Wrote:Because it implies school should even be teaching things like this or that school should try to force a belief on kids?

If you were carrying an elephant on your back would you want someone to put a horse or two on because the elephant on your back sucks?
Could you explain that without a metaphor, or get a better one?

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04-13-2008 04:18 AM
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Probably Weswammy Wrote:http://www.boston.com/news/local/article...suit_says/

There's one instance.
I'm pretty sure he wouldn't even have gotten that job without keeping his faith low profile.

And you people talk like Science and Religion are 2 different things when, in fact, they over lap in this instance. This is a point when science becomes religion and vice versa. Evolution and Creationism are answering the same question, and to dismiss one as "just religion" is stupid. In this instance it would be just as easy to dismiss evolution as "just religion". What if a religion taught evolution? Then would evolution be null and void? No. Just because religions teach creationism doesn't mean you can't pull it out of that mess and look at it for what it really is, a belief on the origin of life (like evolution).
You're missing one of the points. Evolution has evidence, creationism does not. Even if evolution were a religious belief, it would still be considered science because it has evidence. Creationism doesn't have evidence so it is only a religious belief.
04-13-2008 04:20 AM
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Post: #26
Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Probably Weswammy Wrote:Could you explain that without a metaphor, or get a better one?

Edit: Would you want to make a bad class even worse?
04-13-2008 04:25 AM
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Post: #27
Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Who's to say there isn't? Maybe we haven't found it yet.

The discouragement and discrimination from mainstream science wouldn't help you know.

And actually some theories, like the one where God kills and makes new species periodically, fit in with scientific finding. I do have to say that it was made more to fit in with the findings than not.

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04-13-2008 04:31 AM
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Post: #28
Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

KittyKatBlack Wrote:
Probably Weswammy Wrote:Could you explain that without a metaphor, or get a better one?

Edit: Would you want to make a bad class even worse?
How would it be worse? I'd like it.

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04-13-2008 04:32 AM
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Post: #29
Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Quote:Who's to say there isn't? Maybe we haven't found it yet.
Well if they haven't found any evidence yet then there's no reason to put it in yet, is there?

Quote:And actually some theories, like the one where God kills and makes new species periodically, fit in with scientific finding. I do have to say that it was made more to fit in with the findings than not.
I somehow doubt that. Besides, you have to prove god first.
04-13-2008 04:34 AM
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

Probably Weswammy Wrote:
KittyKatBlack Wrote:
Probably Weswammy Wrote:Could you explain that without a metaphor, or get a better one?

Edit: Would you want to make a bad class even worse?
How would it be worse? I'd like it.
It doesn't matter if you like it or not. If 2nd graders liked the thought that the moon is made of cheese should that be taught? You shouldn't be spreading misinformation in a class that is already bad to many people.
04-13-2008 04:36 AM
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