RIP School Survival Forums
August 2001 - June 2017
The School Survival Forums are permanently retired. If you need help with quitting school, unsupportive parents or anything else, there is a list of resources on the Help Page.
If you want to write about your experiences in school, you can write on our blog.
To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.
I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.
I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.
I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.
I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.
Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.
Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.
-SoulRiser
The forums are mostly read-only and are in a maintenance/testing phase, before being permanently archived. Please use this time to get the contact details of people you'd like to keep in touch with.
My contact details are here.
Please do not make a mirror copy of the forums in their current state - things will still change, and some people have requested to be able to edit or delete some of their personal info.
Thread Rating:
- 8 Vote(s) - 3.5 Average
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- 5
John Taylor Gatto books
|
Author |
Message |
youvebeenthunderstruck
Fanatic
Posts: 4,448
Joined: Dec 2006
Thanks: 0
Given 21 thank(s) in 19 post(s)
|
John Taylor Gatto books
John Taylor Gatto is a retired American teacher, who is a strong critic of compulsory education. He wrote a book, which can be viewed for free, on his website. His website is www.johntaylorgatto.com/, and the book can be found at http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/.
He has also written other books, 4 if I recall correctly. More information can be found about him elsewhere.
(the other books aren't free and require the transaction of money for book)
|
|
04-21-2008 10:19 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
Agnapostate
Rebel
Posts: 25
Joined: Jan 2008
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
Yes, he's a good author. He won several teaching awards before he resigned, actually.
I hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.
-Thomas Jefferson
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-Benjamin Franklin
We want freedom by any means necessary. We want justice by any means necessary. We want equality by any means necessary.
-Malcolm X
A liberation movement demands an expansion of our moral horizons, so that practices that were previously regarded as natural and inevitable are now seen as intolerable.
-Peter Singer
|
|
04-22-2008 05:53 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
Chuplayer
Renegade
Posts: 94
Joined: Feb 2007
Thanks: 0
Given 1 thank(s) in 1 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
I read this online years ago. It's an excellent read.
|
|
04-29-2008 09:56 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
Puchiko
Pariah
Posts: 704
Joined: Dec 2007
Thanks: 0
Given 15 thank(s) in 11 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
Any reason this is a sticky? Not that I object or anything, just that I don't see the reason.
Don't take life so seriously, it isn't permanent.
|
|
05-06-2008 07:28 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
youvebeenthunderstruck
Fanatic
Posts: 4,448
Joined: Dec 2006
Thanks: 0
Given 21 thank(s) in 19 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
Because not many people know that he has a free book.
|
|
05-06-2008 07:37 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
Agnapostate
Rebel
Posts: 25
Joined: Jan 2008
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
The one problem I have with Gatto is he supports a sort of "anarcho-capitalist" school system in place of the current "totalitarian socialist" system. He would replace state funded and authoritarian schools with privately funded "free schools." Honestly, I still support including the socialist aspect of state funding for education. In many cases, a libertarian private school would be inaccessible to the poor and disenfranchised, and may cause just as much damage as an authoritarian socialist school. I would support free state-funded education for every citizen, and thus the ideal model would be the libertarian socialist school.
I hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.
-Thomas Jefferson
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-Benjamin Franklin
We want freedom by any means necessary. We want justice by any means necessary. We want equality by any means necessary.
-Malcolm X
A liberation movement demands an expansion of our moral horizons, so that practices that were previously regarded as natural and inevitable are now seen as intolerable.
-Peter Singer
|
|
05-15-2008 07:23 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
itsacorporatething
Defiant
Posts: 2
Joined: May 2008
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
I agree with you, Agnapostate. From what I've read of "underground history", I can tell that his perspective is definitely from a right libertarian background. It would have been much nicer if it was from a more anarchist or Marxist perspective. It is just a matter of preference I suppose. The analysis remains just as valuable either way.
|
|
05-23-2008 03:27 PM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
dreamer...
Pariah
Posts: 563
Joined: Jan 2008
Thanks: 0
Given 5 thank(s) in 3 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
I just finished Dumbing Us Down. Great book for the most part, although I disagree with a few of Gatto's points. His description of the "7 Lesson Schoolteacher" is so utterly true. It's an inspiring collection of essays, and I would definitely recommend it.
Now I'll just have to get a hold of Gatto's other books.
|
|
07-03-2008 03:17 PM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
Jackass McAwesome
Fanatic
Posts: 1,903
Joined: Jan 2008
Thanks: 0
Given 24 thank(s) in 17 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
Hee hee.
In my 'net ban, I managed to pick up Dumbing Us Down. I actually could've got Underground History, but Mom made me choose one. I DID read a good amount of Underground at my alternative school, and I got one of the teachers interested in the anti-school view.
|
|
12-09-2008 08:44 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
Puchiko
Pariah
Posts: 704
Joined: Dec 2007
Thanks: 0
Given 15 thank(s) in 11 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
Agnapostate Wrote:The one problem I have with Gatto is he supports a sort of "anarcho-capitalist" school system in place of the current "totalitarian socialist" system. He would replace state funded and authoritarian schools with privately funded "free schools." Honestly, I still support including the socialist aspect of state funding for education. In many cases, a libertarian private school would be inaccessible to the poor and disenfranchised, and may cause just as much damage as an authoritarian socialist school. I would support free state-funded education for every citizen, and thus the ideal model would be the libertarian socialist school.
Here's my opinion. As long as the state is forcing the people to pay taxes, funding (but not controlling) schools is the least it can do. However, I support the abolishment of the state in the long run, and we all know something that doesn't exist can't provide funding. People could use the half of their salary that they currently turn over to the state to pay for schools.
Don't take life so seriously, it isn't permanent.
|
|
12-12-2008 02:32 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
returnal
cold like minnesota (brrr!)
Posts: 3,082
Joined: Jun 2007
Thanks: 0
Given 29 thank(s) in 26 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
Must. Read. Now.
Does anybody know if they stock Dumbing Us Down in North Texas Barnes and Nobles or Borders?
woah dude
dude woah
|
|
02-08-2009 01:34 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
Will
Fanatic
Posts: 1,362
Joined: Jan 2006
Thanks: 1
Given 29 thank(s) in 16 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
Maybe I should post my entire anti-school bibliography.
|
|
03-13-2009 02:42 PM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
SoulRiser
Site Founder
Posts: 18,240
Joined: Aug 2001
Thanks: 2669
Given 1978 thank(s) in 1208 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
Quote:Maybe I should post my entire anti-school bibliography.
Please do... I could do with some more suggestions for the /books/ section actually.
"If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them." - Dalai Lama
Help & Support - Get help with leaving school, unsupportive parents, and more.
Click here if school makes you depressed or suicidal
Support School Survival on Patreon or Donate Bitcoin Here: 1Q5WCcxWjayniaL92b8GfXBiGdfjmnUNa2
"Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it." - André Paul Guillaume Gide
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination." - Albert Einstein
"I'm pretty sure there's a lot of beauty that can only be found in the mind of a lunatic." - TheCancer
EIPD - Emotionally Incompetent Parent Disorder
Push Button for Collection of Useful Links:
|
|
03-14-2009 03:16 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
Jackass McAwesome
Fanatic
Posts: 1,903
Joined: Jan 2008
Thanks: 0
Given 24 thank(s) in 17 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
Newtown Wrote:Must. Read. Now.
Does anybody know if they stock Dumbing Us Down in North Texas Barnes and Nobles or Borders?
I got mine in the Middle Georgia Barnes n' Noble, so since it's in the South you may find it. Just ask them ladies at the little book hunting center thingy, and they'll lead ya' to it.
|
|
03-14-2009 04:36 PM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
returnal
cold like minnesota (brrr!)
Posts: 3,082
Joined: Jun 2007
Thanks: 0
Given 29 thank(s) in 26 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
Oni-Chiisu Wrote:Newtown Wrote:Must. Read. Now.
Does anybody know if they stock Dumbing Us Down in North Texas Barnes and Nobles or Borders?
I got mine in the Middle Georgia Barnes n' Noble, so since it's in the South you may find it. Just ask them ladies at the little book hunting center thingy, and they'll lead ya' to it.
Thanksees.
u haz star 4 win
woah dude
dude woah
|
|
03-15-2009 01:13 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
The Desert Fox
Waging war with conviction
Posts: 12,063
Joined: Jul 2008
Thanks: 3
Given 102 thank(s) in 75 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
Any chance I could find them in Pittsburgh?
"There is no enemy, there is no victory, only boys who lost their lives in the sand."
[/center]
|
|
05-02-2009 04:21 PM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
Will
Fanatic
Posts: 1,362
Joined: Jan 2006
Thanks: 1
Given 29 thank(s) in 16 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
I generally suggest buying books online for loads of reasons. I have no idea as to whether you can find his books in Pittsburgh. You can find one of his books online, and if you can't order online for some reason, I may be able to mail you a copy.
|
|
05-03-2009 12:21 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
The Desert Fox
Waging war with conviction
Posts: 12,063
Joined: Jul 2008
Thanks: 3
Given 102 thank(s) in 75 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
Sweet, thanks.
"There is no enemy, there is no victory, only boys who lost their lives in the sand."
[/center]
|
|
05-03-2009 05:38 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
Hanny
Fanatic
Posts: 2,008
Joined: May 2008
Thanks: 0
Given 6 thank(s) in 6 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
I have Dumbing Us Down, waiting to be read.
<Darthmat> I love the taste of meat in my mouth. Cory, I don't know how you live without it.
<Darthmat> "Forbidden meat tastes sweetest."
Penisometer
8======================================================================o
Conclusion: Still a penis.
|
|
05-03-2009 08:18 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
NowhereWoman
Pariah
Posts: 627
Joined: Feb 2009
Thanks: 0
Given 11 thank(s) in 8 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
I've just started reading John Holt, and it's very interesting how much of what he writes has to do not only with school, but with psychology and the world.
I need to read JTG, though, and it's hard to find the time or concentration to read his online book....
To AMAZON!
(hey, my dad let me buy Teenage Liberation Handbook...)
An it Harm None, Do What Ye Will
An it Harm, Do Only What Ye Must
Lighten up! This life was made for experimenting, making mistakes, falling on our faces, and standing up to do it all over again.
Live for Learning.
Carla Franklin may be a whore. She may be a wonderful, kind, moral woman. Seeing as I don't know her personally, I cannot know for sure. However, I find her actions (suing Google, requesting the personal info of her critics, getting angry over random internet idiocy that she should ignore and be bigger than, trying to get this site in trouble because of a few users' commentary on the situation, etc.) pretty ridiculous and unwarranted. If she didn't want people to to be talking about/judging her, well 1. that's impossible, she's a human, and 2. she shouldn't have been a model or agreed to be on film. AND 3. she DEFINITELY shouldn't have sued Google and made all this fuss over a few random idiots whom she probably won't ever know expressing their opinion. Mmkay? MMKAY.
|
|
05-03-2009 09:43 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
Coma Girl
Pariah
Posts: 858
Joined: Jul 2007
Thanks: 0
Given 4 thank(s) in 4 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
i should condense the version down, and then slip them in around the library ^_^
"People often compete to be considered right rather than collaborating to find the real answer."-Will.
|
|
07-12-2009 07:10 PM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
Will
Fanatic
Posts: 1,362
Joined: Jan 2006
Thanks: 1
Given 29 thank(s) in 16 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
mangareadr Wrote:I've just started reading John Holt, and it's very interesting how much of what he writes has to do not only with school, but with psychology and the world.
I need to read JTG, though, and it's hard to find the time or concentration to read his online book....
To AMAZON!
(hey, my dad let me buy Teenage Liberation Handbook...)
I second John Holt.
And all of this stuff has to do with both school and the rest of the world because they are the same. School continues in its current form for the same reasons that other institutions do. As a society, we accept many related absurd things. Attacking one of them attacks many of the others. This is why so few of my posts concern school directly.
|
|
07-13-2009 06:08 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
LOON_ATTIC
A NERD
Posts: 5,158
Joined: May 2009
Thanks: 9
Given 60 thank(s) in 49 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
I'd love to get material copies of these books. It's kind of a pain to red in my laptop screen.
|
|
11-08-2009 09:25 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
Thought Criminal
Frame 313
Posts: 10,133
Joined: May 2007
Thanks: 12
Given 106 thank(s) in 80 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
I have the teenage liberation handbook and dumbing us down. The handbook was okay but dumbing us down kicked ass.
|
|
11-08-2009 09:27 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
Trar
R.I.P.
Posts: 1,437
Joined: Jun 2008
Thanks: 1384
Given 189 thank(s) in 125 post(s)
|
Re: John Taylor Gatto books
I got into a discussion about the modern educational system on another forum and I showed the guy I was debating with John Taylor Gatto's articles. His reply was something like "just a disillusioned old man ranting about the system, nothing at all blah blah blah". He then went on to say that if we didn't have the current educational system nobody would go to college and all the jobs in America would be taken up by immigrants.
|
|
12-23-2010 05:06 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
LOON_ATTIC
A NERD
Posts: 5,158
Joined: May 2009
Thanks: 9
Given 60 thank(s) in 49 post(s)
|
RE: John Taylor Gatto books
really
|
|
05-13-2012 05:15 PM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
Blobthe15
stereotypical agnsty teenager
Posts: 590
Joined: Feb 2011
Thanks: 0
Given 5 thank(s) in 5 post(s)
|
RE: John Taylor Gatto books
Alfie Kohn is a good writer.
I am Blobthe15, creator of threads that die too quickly.
(02-08-2012 01:06 PM)Lunatic Wrote: everyone says emo is like a music style or hair stile or clothing or cutting yourself but i think its like a sexuality just like being gay but a different kind of gay just like transexuals you know
|
|
05-14-2012 01:34 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
Alistoriv
Sanity Not Included
Posts: 625
Joined: Nov 2012
Thanks: 203
Given 169 thank(s) in 114 post(s)
|
John Taylor Gatto books
Yeah, yeah, I'm fucking late, don't care. What JTG book would you recommend the most?
RIP GORE GOROTH
RIP SAINTVICIOUS
(03-20-2013 05:08 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote: Stand up with pride and say "No! I will not be a McDonalds employee. I WILL BE A GARBAGE MAN!"
|
|
04-23-2013 10:51 AM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
RashedMohamed
Spambot
Posts: 25
Joined: Sep 2013
Thanks: 0
Given 0 thank(s) in 0 post(s)
|
RE: John Taylor Gatto books
John Taylor Gatto (born December 15, 1935) is a retired American school teacher with nearly 30 years experience in the classroom, and author of several books on education. He is an activist critical of compulsory schooling, of the perceived divide between the teen years and adulthood, and of what he characterizes as the hegemonic nature of discourse on education and the education professions.
Dumbing Us Down
The Underground History of American Education
A different kind of teacher
The Exhausted School
Weapons of Mass Instruction: A Schoolteacher's Journey Through the Dark World of Compulsory Schooling
|
|
10-11-2013 03:49 PM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
J.D.
Hawkbit's Best Friend
Posts: 17
Joined: Apr 2013
Thanks: 18
Given 5 thank(s) in 5 post(s)
|
|
11-16-2013 12:49 PM |
|
Thanks given by: | |
|
User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)